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Moe Doobie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.01 23:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Soooo yeah....I chose manufacturing as a career. Trying to figure out just how lucrative it could be, even though that's not my main reason for choosing it. I assume manufacturers have an easier time being less dependent on other players as they can build their own things, right?
Could any other Manufacturer's chime in as to how successful you have been, do you think it's good for a noob, etc.
I do not want to mine.
I do not want to mine.
I..do not...want to mine.
Also do you know of any THOROUGH manufacturing guides? I've googled,but many that I find seem like they were written for people who have a good knowledge of EvE, even terms,etc.
...as well as any good Corps that help noob manufacturers....or rather noobs that want to manufacture.
Thank you. |
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
48
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, even if you don't want to mine - you might enjoy running some missions and salvaging materials for your manufacturing business. You will get lots of advice - some good - some bad. Luckily - there is a bunch of info out there.
You can also look for a corp that specializes in manufacturing and join up there.
Good luck! It is fun to collect all of the items needed, manufacture items and sell them. It's a hit when you create your first TechII items.
Have fun! |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
122
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Production Efficiency 5
Train Nothing else until it's done
you need a bunch of skills, some of them are expensive
and a collection of blueprints, most of them are expensive
everything thats made is made from minerals (except rigs)
minerals come from ores
ores are mined |
Moe Doobie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Clystan wrote:Well, even if you don't want to mine - you might enjoy running some missions and salvaging materials for your manufacturing business. You will get lots of advice - some good - some bad. Luckily - there is a bunch of info out there.
You can also look for a corp that specializes in manufacturing and join up there.
Good luck! It is fun to collect all of the items needed, manufacture items and sell them. It's a hit when you create your first TechII items.
Have fun!
I'll run missions. I have to, that's my only real way to make any isk right now.Ty for the advice. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
336
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
This should be in the science and industry section.
Yes you can manufacture and be profitable without ever mining. I stopped mining a while ago. Get your market skills up though, you'll need them.
I'm not an industrial mogul by any means, but I can support my self enough to buy **** on a whim and not care about it.
Be smart, buy components/materials as cheap as you can, sell end end product as high as you can, but dont get crazy silly or people will never buy. It's more complex than that, of course but its not rocket science.
All of this is assuming that you have proper Indy skills up. If you have crap skills, you wont be competetive on the market at all, unless you like selling items at a loss.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ways to manufacturing without minig.
Run mission and reproces items to get minerals. lvl 4 missions offer a lot minerals its posible to manufacture Battleship after colecting and reproces items form like 10 rich missions lv4, or buy items cheap, reproces them and manufacture, or, set buy orders buy minerals- bulid things, profit.
Its ok if you dont like mining, we dont force you to mining, but remember mining is best boost for most industralist.
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Beckie DeLey
Living From Scraps
137
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tarvos Telesto wrote:but remember mining is best boost for most industralist.
Hahaha no. Time spent mining is time wasted.
Trading beats Mining every time of the day. Trade skills do everything for the industrialist. Among other things, they enable the industrialist to profit of those silly people that chose to do menial tasks for minimum wage in a computer game: Miners and Haulers. Those guys offer a service that pays them a few millions per hour so that real industrialists can use their time to earn that tenfold.
With mining, you aren't going to permanently fuel even one of your manufacturing lines. And you are going to have 10 lines. Even an Indy player with a minimum of skills can easily breathe away what ten miners bring him. Why even start it, it's a boring job for pisspoor wage. Completely rubbish. Unless of course you are AFK, but in that case i hope you eat a Thrasher to your face.
I wish Mining and its associated skills were in their own skillgroup and not in the Industry tab, there is really no reason to throw gatherers into one pot with manufacturers. Gives the wrong impression to new guys - that mining would be something useful for industrialists.
It's The Legendary Extraordinary Me |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
329
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Manufacturing can take many forms in EVE.
As a Noob, you can try PI. Either as your income source or your point of manufacturing. Manufacturing really doesn't require mining. It does require time and ISK though. Profit is usually found in the ME level of the blueprint meaning you need to get your waste as close to zero as possible. Its all very much a timers game. |
Natasha Liao
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 01:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:minerals come from ores
ores are mined
Use your trade skills, set up buy orders and relieve those hard working miners of their product. Remember not to pay them a lot. They won't really notice. Mining lasers kill more brain cells than alcohol and drugs combined.
Skydell's PI suggestion is good too. Easy money for a few clicky-clicky's a day. While there are profitable products that involve a long involved production chain; there are some good, relatively cheap PI infrastructure-wise, easy to make 1 planet products that sell well and sell for a damn decent profit for your time invested.
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Moe Doobie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 01:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Manufacturing can take many forms in EVE.
As a Noob, you can try PI. Either as your income source or your point of manufacturing. Manufacturing really doesn't require mining. It does require time and ISK though. Profit is usually found in the ME level of the blueprint meaning you need to get your waste as close to zero as possible. Its all very much a timers game.
PI? Is that the Planetary thing?
I have to look into it, I don't know a damn thing about it. Didn't even know it was related to manufacturing. |
Moe Doobie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 01:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Beckie DeLey wrote:Tarvos Telesto wrote:but remember mining is best boost for most industralist.
Hahaha no. Time spent mining is time wasted. Trading beats Mining every time of the day. Trade skills do everything for the industrialist. Among other things, they enable the industrialist to profit of those silly people that chose to do menial tasks for minimum wage in a computer game: Miners and Haulers. Those guys offer a service that pays them a few millions per hour so that real industrialists can use their time to earn that tenfold. With mining, you aren't going to permanently fuel even one of your manufacturing lines. And you are going to have 10 lines. Even an Indy player with a minimum of skills can easily breathe away what ten miners bring him. Why even start it, it's a boring job for pisspoor wage. Completely rubbish. Unless of course you are AFK, but in that case i hope you eat a Thrasher to your face. I wish Mining and its associated skills were in their own skillgroup and not in the Industry tab, there is really no reason to throw gatherers into one pot with manufacturers. Gives the wrong impression to new guys - that mining would be something useful for industrialists. tl;dr: No need to mine, there's plenty of minerals on the market.
Yeah that's what I read on a manufacturing site; he didn't recommend mining either because that time cuts into your manufacturing time.
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
448
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 01:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah, don't mine. Not worth the time if you want to build stuff. You mine to sell the minerals. Or you run a half dozen accounts to mine, and even then you should just sell the minerals.
I would even say the same thing if you're doing missions for salvage, stop it. Do missions for isk.
If you want to build, buy the materials and do PI.
You can't mine enough by yourself to support building BS's without losing 70 or so IQ points. Really not worth hurting yourself like that. |
Moe Doobie
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 03:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Yeah, don't mine. Not worth the time if you want to build stuff. You mine to sell the minerals. Or you run a half dozen accounts to mine, and even then you should just sell the minerals.
I would even say the same thing if you're doing missions for salvage, stop it. Do missions for isk.
If you want to build, buy the materials and do PI.
You can't mine enough by yourself to support building BS's without losing 70 or so IQ points. Really not worth hurting yourself like that.
I've noticed you around the forums posting about manufacturing. I read your posts regarding player made mods being undercut by equipment dropped by rats and whatnot. Your perspective made sense, from an economic perspective so I assume you know what you're talking about.
Do you know of any good manufacturing sites/software I could use to learn the profession? |
Natasha Liao
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 03:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
There's some links to software in the Production Resources section on the Eve Wiki. Don't know if you've looked those over yet.
You may be able to just get by with imputing all of your variables you're concerned with into a Google Spreadsheet too. One piece of software I used years ago ( now unsupported last I checked ) compiled all your account information into one place, but boy was it overkill and kinda cumbersome to use.
Late Edit: I actually looked over a few of those links. Slim pickings. I did however manage to dig up a good link: Halada's Complete Miners Guide v3. Halada was The Man ( all the miner whining about tanks on exhumers -> Halada covered ship fits in at least '08 ). His v3 of the guide has a manufacturing section added in the back. Good list of skills needed for ship building and explanations of how to do some industry related things. Sadly, last I read life trumped Halada's Eve time and he didn't get some of it finished. |
Marcin Arkaral
Globaltech Industries
Yulai Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
If you even don't consider mining to get some minerals on your own, they you will pay a lot for them. Subsequently your profits will be lower, then if u did do some mining. |
Terminal Insanity
Suicides-R-Us
BricK sQuAD.
687
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 09:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Key: secure as much of the supply chain as possible. From the raw ore to the manufacturing slots used to build, you want to own and control it all. Each part that you dont own is costing you money, because you're paying someone else to do that part.
And, theres more ways to get ore then mining it =) You'll just need to get creative to avoid mining while securing that part of the chain
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 10:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Natasha Liao wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:minerals come from ores
ores are mined Use your trade skills, set up buy orders and relieve those hard working miners of their product. Remember not to pay them a lot. They won't really notice. Mining lasers kill more brain cells than alcohol and drugs combined. Skydell's PI suggestion is good too. Easy money for a few clicky-clicky's a day. While there are profitable products that involve a long involved production chain; there are some good, relatively cheap PI infrastructure-wise, easy to make 1 planet products that sell well and sell for a damn decent profit for your time invested.
I need to stop relying on people reading between the lines.
OP stated no mining, I can read.
It is generally cheaper to buy unprocessed ores, than it is pre-refined minerals
refining skills are a good thing to train, in the general pursuit of reducing overheads
where to place those Ore Buy-Orders
it's also a good site for planning ME/PE research levels on your blueprints.
Lots of guides here too.
for PI in hisec, use the map and then the [statistics] tab to locate low volume traffic systems
you shouldnt need any of those skills at more than 4
http://eveplanets.com should help a little |
RaTTuS
BIG
Everywhere - Everything
221
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 10:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
mined minerals are not free
http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation
The Irukandji
680
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you are doing this in high sec and trying to sell your stuff at market hubs, you are not going to make any ISK at all. However if you rely on the laziness of players and the natural unwillingness for them to travel X jumps to a trade hub to buy stuff and put a little thought into it, you can make a tidy profit.
RaTTuS wrote:mined minerals are not free
Time spent playing a computer game is time you are never going to get back. There's no point trying to assign a real dollar value to that time, since it's wasted if you make a zillion isk or zero isk. Because you can't (legally) turn ISK into dollars. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
378
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
The problem with manufacturing and not mining, is that you have to buy everything from someone else and this often becomes more expensive than just buying whatever it is you were planning on making.
Here's an example:
- Built a Hyperion used minerals purchased on market
- Bought minerals and transported to location for manufacture through Courier
- Required ~ 7 hours between waiting for Courier and the manufacturing process
- Spent 8 million more ISK than buying Hyperion on market.
That's not including the less than 1% wastage BPC I used to manufacture it, which still has 4 runs left. Got it for next to nothing, so it doesn't matter. It does include the 5 million ISK Courier Contract I put up though.
I almost had fun losing it in a 1v1 turned 3v1 on the Jita undock though. 
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
While Production Efficiency V is a real boon, you can get by with less, especially if you just want to learn. In fact, I'd say that the greatest obstacle early on is that you won't have a good portfolio of blueprints and/or you won't have had the time to research them GÇö a varied set of BPs with good numbers does wonders for letting you always manufacture something at a profit, even if you don't have perfect skills. Oh, and of course, having a good BP collection becomes really handy if and when you go into invention, where that kind of market agility is paramount.
That said, my tip is to not be too focused on peak efficiency and profits to begin with GÇö just get a hang of how things work. For most T1, it's all the same: get BP, research it if you can, pour minerals into it. Above that are some GÇ£advancedGÇ¥ T1 products such as prototype cloaks, which require special components and some special skills to both build and research. And then there's T2, which is a chapter on its own and for which there are a reasonable amount of guides out there (search for GÇ£inventionGÇ¥, even on the EVE wiki). T1 is trivial; advanced T1 starts requiring multiple steps for the materials so you have to juggle more numbers to see the actual cost and profit (and manage more production lines if you do it all in-house); T2 requires multiple steps for both materials and blueprints, requiring a lot more numbers GÇö some of which is pure statistics GÇö and reasonably good planning and timing to have it all click together.
You might also want to pick up something like IPH, which lets you calculate how much you can earn from various industry-related pursuits.
Ptraci wrote:Time spent playing a computer game is time you are never going to get back. There's no point trying to assign a real dollar value to that time, since it's wasted if you make a zillion isk or zero isk. Because you can't (legally) turn ISK into dollars. He's not talking about dollars. He's talking about the value of the minerals. Even if you mine them yourself, they're not free, and if you forget that fact you quickly start losing ISK. Nothing is stopping you from manufacturing and selling at a loss, of course, but realise that that's what you're doing: you're throwing money away, not building GÇ£for freeGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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NARDAC
Newb U
16
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Posted - 2012.11.02 12:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
The answer is that you are going to have a hard time in a career as a manufacturer because:
Named are better than meta 0.
You can't manufacture named... those come from rat drops.
T2 is better than named, but competition is fierce.
Manufacturers are forced into a few niches that don't drop from rats (or do not drop in high enough quantity): Ammo, salvagers, tractors, rigs, T2, ships.
The elimination of the meta 0 loot has helped miners, but has done little to nothing for manufacturers. If CCP really wanted to make manufacturing a lucrative career, they would need to remove named loot an make those player inventable/buildable.
I see no reason that the only loot from wrecks would not be salvage and metal scraps.
Heck, I could see high sec mining belts be removed or nerfed, and wrecks become the new source of "mining" for minerals, and you do it with a salvager, getting back a % of the minerals required to build a ship along with the stuff for rigs.
Of course, the other big issue with manufacturing is the ability to bot it. Anything that is easy to bot is going to have a fairly low profit margin. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2701
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Started out with a shuttle BPO and now I make billions.
Dont expect instant gratification though. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
NARDAC wrote:Manufacturers are forced into a few niches that don't drop from rats (or do not drop in high enough quantity): Ammo, salvagers, tractors, rigs, T2, ships. GǪand all kinds of T1 since it can do things that drops can't, and as such there's always a good market for it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2701
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tippia wrote:NARDAC wrote:Manufacturers are forced into a few niches that don't drop from rats (or do not drop in high enough quantity): Ammo, salvagers, tractors, rigs, T2, ships. GǪand all kinds of T1 since it can do things that drops can't, and as such there's always a good market for it.
Could be better if the loot drops were reduced a bit so they wernt dirt cheap but yea, I can get my t1 stuff sold. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Could be better if the loot drops were reduced a bit so they wernt dirt cheap but yea, I can get my t1 stuff sold. As I see it, dirt cheap meta = free minerals (GÇ£freeGÇ¥ as in GÇ£I pay for 10 and get 5 more for freeGÇ¥). If there's ever a group that is more into the whole GÇ£stuff I mine is freeGÇ¥ mindset than miners, it's mission-runners. 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2701
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 12:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tippia wrote:As I see it, dirt cheap meta = free minerals (GÇ£freeGÇ¥ as in GÇ£I pay for 10 and get 5 more for freeGÇ¥). If there's ever a group that is more into the whole GÇ£stuff I mine is freeGÇ¥ mindset than miners, it's mission-runners.
So true, so very true.
Although I like to just sell the mods on for a quick profit. |
HalfArse
Dark Matter Avionics
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 13:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'v made about 4 billion thus far from industry - iv just come back from a month or two break from the game so im just firing everything up again but my next goal is to make 2 billion in one week. My goal after that will be to sustain it :P
I'v read through the reply in this thread and I have to say i disagree with a lot of it :P
First of all production eff 5 - yes it is very important to get it to 5 but you can happily start manufacturing before you get there - esp if you focus on stuff with small material needs.
Secondly, don't build T1 ships. There are many reasons why that i cant be bothered explaining here - just dont.
Next, depending on how much capital you have T1 mods might help you get on your feet but youl want to abandon them pretty quickly so meta/named and rat drops etc are irrelevant. (there are some mods that are technically T1 that can make good profit but you wont have the skill or money to do for a while).
You will find yourself sliding into a few niches, but that's good. Youl find a few that work for you and youl get to know the market like the back of your hand and youl be able to move and adapt quickly to the shifts that happen.
Absolutely no need to mine - if you dont enjoy it then leave it well alone. It wont save you any money from buying off the market (im happy to explain this if u mail me in game) and you wont be able to mine the amounts you need once your manufacturing gets serious.
Owning the supply chain - sometimes if you build every component from raw material to finished product you will make more money than if you just bought the parts for the final build HOWEVER you need to research to ascertain how much effort, how much time and how complicated it would be. Inebitably you will find that doing a few things yourself will make a big difference and will be worth it, while other parts just arnt worth it at all. In fact alot of things sell on the market for less than the manufacture cost because of traders, therefore doing everything yourself is actually costing you more.
And lets not forget time is money! and so is production volume.....find the right balance.
PI can help generate some good income, takes lot of research and number crunching but the effort can provide a very nice setup - kinda manufacturing not the normal kind, whether or not its for you is for you to decide :P
Mission running? got nothing to do with anything except scavenging a pitiful amount of materials - like mining, unless you like it dont even bother.
feel free to mail me in game if you have any other questions, im on most nights GMT |
Ravenclaw2kk
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 14:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aim for invention if you want to make money manufacturing things. It's quite difficult to turn a profit on a lot of T1 items, there is stuff out there, but you usually have to make your own market for it.
Also, T1 items are horribly underpowered compared to their T2 or even meta counterparts, so you won;t be building T1 stuff for personal use. |
Natasha Liao
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 14:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:I need to stop relying on people reading between the lines.
OP stated no mining, I can read.
*chuckle* I wasn't quoting your suggestion as wrong Kitty Bear, only to point out where you can modify a step and do it mining laser free. It's a way NOT to spend hours upon hours mining. Doing that can be annoying/dangerous too; what with all those miner bumpers, gankers and can flippers. Your time really can be spent more profitably.
Tippia wrote:If there's ever a group that is more into the whole GÇ£stuff I mine is freeGÇ¥ mindset than miners, it's mission-runners. P
Not all of us think that stuffs free. Just like the 'mining =/= free minz' comparison: I spent time, effort and ISK if using depletable ammo. Some of us can even tell the difference what form that mod has more value in. But just like miners, it's your public duty to relieve these hard working ( upstanding pillars of the Eve community ) mission runners of any of these drops Moe should they not care about it's value. Some will even do all the effort and reprocess them for you.
A few people have mentioned making ammo: IMO ( and experience ) even away from the trade hubs the 'minz iz free' crowd will undercut you to no end ( they have lots of time between laser cycles to play 0.01 ISK games ). My advice is buy up the cheap stuff and haul it someplace where you can make a profit. Instead of ending up in a adversarial arrangement with them: make them your unknowing worker bees. Buying their stuff will even encourage them in their endeavors.
And to all the folks who think their minerals they've mined are 'free': don't listen to the people saying otherwise. They're HATERS and they're all jelly of you. You keep doing what you're doing. Oh(!) ... and could you please ( oh please, please, pretty please with sugar on top ) sell those cheap ... err .... value priced items in Amarr or Caldari space? I love you guys and you're the freaking salt of the earth! 
And one thing I haven't seen mentioned: if you just want to *make things* there's lots of ways to get to that goal ( I actually like making things in games too, so I understand ). If *making ISK* is also part of the equation: sometimes the generally assumed path of "gather -> build -> sell -> profit!" can take some interesting twists and turns.
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