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Brechan Skene	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:38:00 - [1] To my fellow EVE palyers, During my time playing this game i have come to realise that the people that are in control of the game do not have much concern for the paying customer that is the players within the game of EVE. From my experience with CCP I believe they have the attitude of "that they give you what they want to give you and damn you if expect anything more". The recent incident concerned a vague mission brief that I received from an agent ( a lvl 2 agent). Because of the vague information it caused the destruction of my ship and I am extremely unhappy with the lax," go get lost attitude from CCP". Below is a statement of my request within the petition: "The mission brief stated that I should not fire onto the first group of ships. This information has caused alot of confusion .The consequences is I have lost my Battle Ship . Now I am very unhappy with the way the mission was worded and request that the ship is refunded. I know that in the past you may or may not refund the ship and that I should not expect anything from you. But due to the vague mission details and what occurred if the ship is not refunded I will have no alternate than to cancel this subscription. I wish to state that this is not a threat but a set of actions that I will take as I feel that the mission brief had led me into a situation that caused the destruction of my ship as I believed the the initial group of ships were the convoy and therefore should not be fired at. I am not very happy at the moment." All I got from them was the standard that is nice and we don't give a ** for your situation. I kinow I should have insured it but I considered it pathetic that in a game a Battelship could stand a lvl 2 mission. I followed the directions to protect the convoy and all I got was the convoy nuked me. The directions lead me into a situation which placed my ship in danger. If you are going to put a reply saying that I should go and get a "can of harden-up". Go and place that statement where the sun does not shine. However if you wish to note down a situation where you were treated like a "street walker" by CCP then by all means place a note down and maybe they may learn something from it.. But I severely doubt it. I would like to finish by saying that I like playing EVE .I find it a very spectacular game. But I do not like being treated like a "street walker" by the powers of EVEI at the moment pay them money to at least provide a "basic" service to me their customer. I am not their *** whom they can treat like a "street walker"
Hakera	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:44:00 - [2] you lost a bs to a lvl 2 mission? which mission was it? tbh, CCP should not reward stupidity which is why you will not be reimbursed. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
jamesw	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:44:00 - [3] Edited by: jamesw on 07/04/2005 04:45:33 you forgot to use this emote in your post... Edit so that it is constructive: You really should insure your ships. There are any number of ways (both your fault and not) that you can lose them in this game, and you should not expect CCP to reimburse you for those losses. Additionally, if you fire on something, expect it to shoot back. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:46:00 - [4] Have you considered that there's something wrong with YOU and not CCP? My points: 1) You managed to misunderstand a simple agent mission. This is very hard to do especially since all enemies are clearly identified 2) You lose a battleship to level 2 agent mission spawns - which is impossible under normal circumstances. You had to really try to pull it off, didn't you. CCP is not responsible for you being intellectually challanged.
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:50:00 - [5] I read the first few sentences and stopped caring. Its not the GM's job to baby you because of your inability to plan ahead. I too lost my Raven on a level four mission yesterday, to what I still think is a bug. Partly my mistake as well, but either way I petitioned it. GMs told me no, so I went about my life. It's not the end of the world, if you don't learn from the experience you might as well just quit eve, and life. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Lygos	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:29:00 - [6] This is a game of Corporate conflict. Were you really surprised that you got screwed by the fine print? At least it finally happened to somebody.. I'm kindof jealous actually. I always really wanted to train up legal defense, and confusing advertizing Level V as my main profession. I would really look forward to the implementation of the contracts system if self-employment wasn't absolutly taken for granted already. I wouldn't screw people over, but I'll be damned if you wouldn't eventually find yourself feeling the need to want for someone to pull your strings.
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:42:00 - [7] I bet he lost his ship to the sabotage mission..the one where you meet the huge fleet..made of 3xBS and a lot of cruiser and frigates.. and..the mission log do say..dont fire at them.unless you really want to..or somethink like that.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 07/04/2005 06:00:15 Yepp, it has to be sabotage, I do them for Minmatar, and I wasn't about to try and engage a fleet of Minmatar Fleet class ships, even if they do show up as red "+" signs. If you had READ and understood the briefing, it stated quite cleary that you should not engage them if you valued your ship. Isn't a BS just a little on the overkill side for a level 2 mission anyway ? -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Lorth	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:02:00 - [9] Sorry, but the mission statment is really clear on this one. If you missread it our just completly ignored it then its frankly your fault. Why in the world did you not have insurance. And why did you think it was a good idea to engage battle ships with an uninsured ship? Frankly, this is 100% your fault, and not CCP's. You made a mistake, and shouldn't be pampered.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:16:00 - [10] I got to "...didn't insure my ship." and started laughing.
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:18:00 - [11] no insurance? can't read a mission description and warning? can i have your stuff? bye
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:27:00 - [12] The fool and his money were lucky enough to get together to begin with: you ought not complain when they part. Two words for you: WoW, n00b. If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:50:00 - [13] Rofl this is what I like to read in a morning Hillarious Now as i remember from doing a few missions a long time ago ... that mission is the one where location 1 takes you to a friendly fleet of bs's / cruisers etc yes ? and im sure in the mission briefing it advises you something along the lines of "Do not attack these ships blah blah unless your prepared to fight a number of bs's etc" Ok not worded exactly but its something like that learn to read ... and you lost a bs to a level 2 mission. ... thats classic Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Katya Detia	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:05:00 - [14] Sorry to hear about your loss, but understand that CCP cant replace ships lost without bugs. If they had to do that imagine how many petitions they would get per day. If you was not happy to do the mission, you could always decline it. --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:06:00 - [15] I got that mission on my first day and when I warped in I though "How the heck am I supposed to destroy that lot in my ibis" so decided to re-read the mission breif! Although it can be a "little" confusing from the mission brief a carefull read would save the loss. Admititedly it does get confusing when you warp in and the ship icons are all RED! By making the icons white as in neutral it would stop a lot of the confusion.
NoobSpy	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:07:00 - [16] It's your fault for taking an uninsured battleship into combat. Situations like this is what ship insurance is for. It's also your fault for not reading the mission description. Also, if you had a decent setup on your bs you should have been able to take on that group of ships. It looks like you were unprepared in every way possible.
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:06:00 - [17] I've done that mission several times. It clearly states that you should not engage that first fleet unless you have a fleet of your own to back you up. Plus - they don't aggro you... big clue. Stupidity does not deserve reimbursement. -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Zondran	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:11:00 - [18] ...not to be forgotten that you also get an ingame message clarifying the situation even more . CCP has always been doing a tremendous job in customer support since i've been around. Blame yourself, not them .
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:15:00 - [19] So let me get this straight. - You lost a battleship to a lvl2 mission? I didn't know that was even possible. - You didn't insure your ship. Stupid. - You didn't pay attention to the mission description. Stupid. Sorry, but the problem here is between the keyboard and the chair at your end. The game should (and does) punish player stupidity. Think of it as a learning experience. And why on earth are you doing lvl2s in a bs? You can do those in a plain vanilla frigate, ffs. Sigh.
Knoppaz	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:24:00 - [20] A couple days ago I made one of those storyline missions and also got confused. The agent said not to attack no matter what, but the mission description said kill 'em all.. Well, at that time I was 2 weeks into EVE without any clue and took my newbie butt to the mission target in my brand new cruiser. The noob I am I attacked the NPCs and lost my cruiser. Result: I'm poor again now, but have a new cruiser and learned a couple things of what happened, one thing being that my setup was pretty crap, another thing being that planing is important. I know, a cruiser is not a battleship, but for a newbie it's still a lot. Anyway, life goes on.. ___________________ 2005.05.06 19:35:17combatYour 650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon perfectly strikes Angel Liquidator, wrecking for 438.7 damage.
Lucre	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Latex Mistress The fool and his money were lucky enough to get together to begin with: you ought not complain when they part. LoL! I lost a Raven on a level 4 mission. Shot the wrong thing (and unlike him it was something I was supposed to be shooting!) and got overwhelmed - at least partly due to my own stupidity in not realising my autopilot destination wasn't set until too late! Did I think about petitioning it? Not for a moment. If there were no risk, there'd be no fun. Got another ship, tried again! Hell, once I lost my Vexor (my only ship at the time!) to Concordokken when I accidentally smartbombed a jumpgate! Again I got over it. These things happen. You do dumb things, you pay the price! But don't expect CCP to hold your hand when it does. Or if that's what you really want, go play something with saved games instead!
Gothmatar Ravenblade	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:54:00 - [22] He is ****ed about a certain mission where the first group was a couple of battleships and cruisers of your own faction waiting for you saying "Thank god you are here here's coordinates and stuff, ready, steady, go" or something like that. He fired at these and got owned. Clearly the mission description says something like "Do not be triggerhappy and do not fire at the first group of ships unless you are capable of dealing with a group of battleships and cruisers". It used to be in red but a careful reader would have read it anyway. So CCP did act correctly here. Case closed.
Garia666	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:45:29 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with a correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. u shouldnt accept that in anyway. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE
Gothmatar Ravenblade	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Gothmatar Ravenblade on 07/04/2005 09:46:25 Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. I shouldnt accept that in anyway. And neither should you. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE I am not a fanboi or such but I doubt CCP was arrogant, in my past experience with them they were quite supportive no matter if the outcome was positive or negative. If they start reimbursing people for losses in a mission because they 'misunderstood' mission descriptions people will come for less and they would be forced to reimburse anyone equally who lost ships in a mission just by having to believe them to misunderstood something or overestimating a situation. Apparently the mission description for that specific mission is clearly understandable, obviously for the majority of players, if not for the mission description itself the player still gets some bold fat crosses in his/her overview telling that it must be some kind of big ships. Nobody fires at a neutral cluster of battleships in a level 2 mission without checking mission description again...unless you are a killer drone under strict order to kill everything in sight. I have seen it in other games too, there is a description and an order to check targets carefully, yet people skim texts and do full-front assaults.
Garia666	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Gothmatar Ravenblade Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. I shouldnt accept that in anyway. And neither should you. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE I am not a fanboi or such but I doubt CCP was arrogant, in my past experience with them they were quite supportive no matter if the outcome was positive or negative. If they start reimbursing people for losses in a mission upon misunderstood mission description people will come for less and they would be forced to reimburse anyone equally who lost ships in a mission just by having to believe them to misunderstood something or overestimating a situation. Apparently the mission description for that specific mission is clearly understandable, obviously for the majority of players, if not for the mission description itself the player still gets some bold fat crosses in his/her overview telling that it must be some kind of big ships. Nobody fires at a neutral cluster of battleships in a level 2 mission without checking mission description again...unless you are a killer drone under strict order to kill everything in sight. I have seen it in other games too, there is a description and an order to check targets carefully, yet people skim texts and do full-front assaults. Totaly true, But still you need to be treated with respect at all times.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:53:00 - [26] Country to the original posters opinions, telling someone they can't have thier stuff back because they messed up is not disrespectfull. CCP, has always been polite. The original poster lost his stuff because he was dumb, nothing more. Telling him to petition again and a again does nothing but stress an already over worked GM crowed.
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:55:00 - [27] The GMs are always respectful in their replies, but a answer that says that can't reimburse a loss is often taken badly. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Doshi Mazir	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE Get of the high horse please... You lost your ship due to a myriad of mistakes most of which were your own. The GM can't give you back your ship because there's no valid reason whatsoever to do so. You just learned the expensive way that if you fire on NPC's they will most likely fire back. And yet here you are pretending like this is some dramatic failure on the side of CCP's customer service, can you please enlighten the rest of us how this is CCP being arrogant? I've always thought of it as keeping the game as fair as possible for everyone but obviously you've seen something the rest of us missed here. Let me put it this way, if you get your ship back, I'm cancelling my subscription. Please, grab a frigate or cruiser, finish the mission and start getting your BS back. You got around 40m isk back even without insurance so use it and move on.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Wrangler The GMs are always respectful in their replies, but a answer that says that can't reimburse a loss is often taken badly. Indeed. It's actually rather depressing the number of players that seem to think being respectful of players, and providing good customer service, should equate to being given whatever they want, whenever they want. All whilst being happily oblivious that such an attitude is hugely disrespectful of both the GMs, who are working within a strict set of rules as to what they can or can't do, and the rest of the playerbase that manages to get through the game just fine without being compensated for every bad decision they make.
Regma	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Hakera you lost a bs to a lvl 2 mission? which mission was it? tbh, CCP should not reward stupidity which is why you will not be reimbursed. EVE fact of the day.

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