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Brechan Skene	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:38:00 - [1] To my fellow EVE palyers, During my time playing this game i have come to realise that the people that are in control of the game do not have much concern for the paying customer that is the players within the game of EVE. From my experience with CCP I believe they have the attitude of "that they give you what they want to give you and damn you if expect anything more". The recent incident concerned a vague mission brief that I received from an agent ( a lvl 2 agent). Because of the vague information it caused the destruction of my ship and I am extremely unhappy with the lax," go get lost attitude from CCP". Below is a statement of my request within the petition: "The mission brief stated that I should not fire onto the first group of ships. This information has caused alot of confusion .The consequences is I have lost my Battle Ship . Now I am very unhappy with the way the mission was worded and request that the ship is refunded. I know that in the past you may or may not refund the ship and that I should not expect anything from you. But due to the vague mission details and what occurred if the ship is not refunded I will have no alternate than to cancel this subscription. I wish to state that this is not a threat but a set of actions that I will take as I feel that the mission brief had led me into a situation that caused the destruction of my ship as I believed the the initial group of ships were the convoy and therefore should not be fired at. I am not very happy at the moment." All I got from them was the standard that is nice and we don't give a ** for your situation. I kinow I should have insured it but I considered it pathetic that in a game a Battelship could stand a lvl 2 mission. I followed the directions to protect the convoy and all I got was the convoy nuked me. The directions lead me into a situation which placed my ship in danger. If you are going to put a reply saying that I should go and get a "can of harden-up". Go and place that statement where the sun does not shine. However if you wish to note down a situation where you were treated like a "street walker" by CCP then by all means place a note down and maybe they may learn something from it.. But I severely doubt it. I would like to finish by saying that I like playing EVE .I find it a very spectacular game. But I do not like being treated like a "street walker" by the powers of EVEI at the moment pay them money to at least provide a "basic" service to me their customer. I am not their *** whom they can treat like a "street walker"
Hakera	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:44:00 - [2] you lost a bs to a lvl 2 mission? which mission was it? tbh, CCP should not reward stupidity which is why you will not be reimbursed. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
jamesw	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:44:00 - [3] Edited by: jamesw on 07/04/2005 04:45:33 you forgot to use this emote in your post... Edit so that it is constructive: You really should insure your ships. There are any number of ways (both your fault and not) that you can lose them in this game, and you should not expect CCP to reimburse you for those losses. Additionally, if you fire on something, expect it to shoot back. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:46:00 - [4] Have you considered that there's something wrong with YOU and not CCP? My points: 1) You managed to misunderstand a simple agent mission. This is very hard to do especially since all enemies are clearly identified 2) You lose a battleship to level 2 agent mission spawns - which is impossible under normal circumstances. You had to really try to pull it off, didn't you. CCP is not responsible for you being intellectually challanged.
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.04.07 04:50:00 - [5] I read the first few sentences and stopped caring. Its not the GM's job to baby you because of your inability to plan ahead. I too lost my Raven on a level four mission yesterday, to what I still think is a bug. Partly my mistake as well, but either way I petitioned it. GMs told me no, so I went about my life. It's not the end of the world, if you don't learn from the experience you might as well just quit eve, and life. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Lygos	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:29:00 - [6] This is a game of Corporate conflict. Were you really surprised that you got screwed by the fine print? At least it finally happened to somebody.. I'm kindof jealous actually. I always really wanted to train up legal defense, and confusing advertizing Level V as my main profession. I would really look forward to the implementation of the contracts system if self-employment wasn't absolutly taken for granted already. I wouldn't screw people over, but I'll be damned if you wouldn't eventually find yourself feeling the need to want for someone to pull your strings.
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:42:00 - [7] I bet he lost his ship to the sabotage mission..the one where you meet the huge fleet..made of 3xBS and a lot of cruiser and frigates.. and..the mission log do say..dont fire at them.unless you really want to..or somethink like that.
Jaabaa Prime	Posted - 2005.04.07 05:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 07/04/2005 06:00:15 Yepp, it has to be sabotage, I do them for Minmatar, and I wasn't about to try and engage a fleet of Minmatar Fleet class ships, even if they do show up as red "+" signs. If you had READ and understood the briefing, it stated quite cleary that you should not engage them if you valued your ship. Isn't a BS just a little on the overkill side for a level 2 mission anyway ? -- Intergalactic Teeth Pullers "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Lorth	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:02:00 - [9] Sorry, but the mission statment is really clear on this one. If you missread it our just completly ignored it then its frankly your fault. Why in the world did you not have insurance. And why did you think it was a good idea to engage battle ships with an uninsured ship? Frankly, this is 100% your fault, and not CCP's. You made a mistake, and shouldn't be pampered.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:16:00 - [10] I got to "...didn't insure my ship." and started laughing.
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:18:00 - [11] no insurance? can't read a mission description and warning? can i have your stuff? bye
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:27:00 - [12] The fool and his money were lucky enough to get together to begin with: you ought not complain when they part. Two words for you: WoW, n00b. If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.07 06:50:00 - [13] Rofl this is what I like to read in a morning Hillarious Now as i remember from doing a few missions a long time ago ... that mission is the one where location 1 takes you to a friendly fleet of bs's / cruisers etc yes ? and im sure in the mission briefing it advises you something along the lines of "Do not attack these ships blah blah unless your prepared to fight a number of bs's etc" Ok not worded exactly but its something like that learn to read ... and you lost a bs to a level 2 mission. ... thats classic Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Katya Detia	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:05:00 - [14] Sorry to hear about your loss, but understand that CCP cant replace ships lost without bugs. If they had to do that imagine how many petitions they would get per day. If you was not happy to do the mission, you could always decline it. --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:06:00 - [15] I got that mission on my first day and when I warped in I though "How the heck am I supposed to destroy that lot in my ibis" so decided to re-read the mission breif! Although it can be a "little" confusing from the mission brief a carefull read would save the loss. Admititedly it does get confusing when you warp in and the ship icons are all RED! By making the icons white as in neutral it would stop a lot of the confusion.
NoobSpy	Posted - 2005.04.07 07:07:00 - [16] It's your fault for taking an uninsured battleship into combat. Situations like this is what ship insurance is for. It's also your fault for not reading the mission description. Also, if you had a decent setup on your bs you should have been able to take on that group of ships. It looks like you were unprepared in every way possible.
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:06:00 - [17] I've done that mission several times. It clearly states that you should not engage that first fleet unless you have a fleet of your own to back you up. Plus - they don't aggro you... big clue. Stupidity does not deserve reimbursement. -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Zondran	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:11:00 - [18] ...not to be forgotten that you also get an ingame message clarifying the situation even more . CCP has always been doing a tremendous job in customer support since i've been around. Blame yourself, not them .
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:15:00 - [19] So let me get this straight. - You lost a battleship to a lvl2 mission? I didn't know that was even possible. - You didn't insure your ship. Stupid. - You didn't pay attention to the mission description. Stupid. Sorry, but the problem here is between the keyboard and the chair at your end. The game should (and does) punish player stupidity. Think of it as a learning experience. And why on earth are you doing lvl2s in a bs? You can do those in a plain vanilla frigate, ffs. Sigh.
Knoppaz	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:24:00 - [20] A couple days ago I made one of those storyline missions and also got confused. The agent said not to attack no matter what, but the mission description said kill 'em all.. Well, at that time I was 2 weeks into EVE without any clue and took my newbie butt to the mission target in my brand new cruiser. The noob I am I attacked the NPCs and lost my cruiser. Result: I'm poor again now, but have a new cruiser and learned a couple things of what happened, one thing being that my setup was pretty crap, another thing being that planing is important. I know, a cruiser is not a battleship, but for a newbie it's still a lot. Anyway, life goes on.. ___________________ 2005.05.06 19:35:17combatYour 650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon perfectly strikes Angel Liquidator, wrecking for 438.7 damage.
Lucre	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Latex Mistress The fool and his money were lucky enough to get together to begin with: you ought not complain when they part. LoL! I lost a Raven on a level 4 mission. Shot the wrong thing (and unlike him it was something I was supposed to be shooting!) and got overwhelmed - at least partly due to my own stupidity in not realising my autopilot destination wasn't set until too late! Did I think about petitioning it? Not for a moment. If there were no risk, there'd be no fun. Got another ship, tried again! Hell, once I lost my Vexor (my only ship at the time!) to Concordokken when I accidentally smartbombed a jumpgate! Again I got over it. These things happen. You do dumb things, you pay the price! But don't expect CCP to hold your hand when it does. Or if that's what you really want, go play something with saved games instead!
Gothmatar Ravenblade	Posted - 2005.04.07 08:54:00 - [22] He is ****ed about a certain mission where the first group was a couple of battleships and cruisers of your own faction waiting for you saying "Thank god you are here here's coordinates and stuff, ready, steady, go" or something like that. He fired at these and got owned. Clearly the mission description says something like "Do not be triggerhappy and do not fire at the first group of ships unless you are capable of dealing with a group of battleships and cruisers". It used to be in red but a careful reader would have read it anyway. So CCP did act correctly here. Case closed.
Garia666	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:45:29 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with a correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. u shouldnt accept that in anyway. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE
Gothmatar Ravenblade	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Gothmatar Ravenblade on 07/04/2005 09:46:25 Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. I shouldnt accept that in anyway. And neither should you. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE I am not a fanboi or such but I doubt CCP was arrogant, in my past experience with them they were quite supportive no matter if the outcome was positive or negative. If they start reimbursing people for losses in a mission because they 'misunderstood' mission descriptions people will come for less and they would be forced to reimburse anyone equally who lost ships in a mission just by having to believe them to misunderstood something or overestimating a situation. Apparently the mission description for that specific mission is clearly understandable, obviously for the majority of players, if not for the mission description itself the player still gets some bold fat crosses in his/her overview telling that it must be some kind of big ships. Nobody fires at a neutral cluster of battleships in a level 2 mission without checking mission description again...unless you are a killer drone under strict order to kill everything in sight. I have seen it in other games too, there is a description and an order to check targets carefully, yet people skim texts and do full-front assaults.
Garia666	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Gothmatar Ravenblade Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 First of all you pay for the game, So what you actualy do is pay for a service, And as you are a paying custumor you need to be treated with respect and at all times with correct set of words. So if there is any Person OF CCP telling you they dont give a **** for your situation. I shouldnt accept that in anyway. And neither should you. So petition untill your drop and demand for someone higher on the rank. If by all means you still decide to quit the game. I wish you well and hope ppl will follow More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE I am not a fanboi or such but I doubt CCP was arrogant, in my past experience with them they were quite supportive no matter if the outcome was positive or negative. If they start reimbursing people for losses in a mission upon misunderstood mission description people will come for less and they would be forced to reimburse anyone equally who lost ships in a mission just by having to believe them to misunderstood something or overestimating a situation. Apparently the mission description for that specific mission is clearly understandable, obviously for the majority of players, if not for the mission description itself the player still gets some bold fat crosses in his/her overview telling that it must be some kind of big ships. Nobody fires at a neutral cluster of battleships in a level 2 mission without checking mission description again...unless you are a killer drone under strict order to kill everything in sight. I have seen it in other games too, there is a description and an order to check targets carefully, yet people skim texts and do full-front assaults. Totaly true, But still you need to be treated with respect at all times.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:53:00 - [26] Country to the original posters opinions, telling someone they can't have thier stuff back because they messed up is not disrespectfull. CCP, has always been polite. The original poster lost his stuff because he was dumb, nothing more. Telling him to petition again and a again does nothing but stress an already over worked GM crowed.
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.04.07 09:55:00 - [27] The GMs are always respectful in their replies, but a answer that says that can't reimburse a loss is often taken badly. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Doshi Mazir	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 07/04/2005 09:35:05 More and more you see the arrogance of CCP mabe there is need of an UNION for EVE or a good working Customers support. We are the ppl wich pay there salary and without us tehre is no EVE Get of the high horse please... You lost your ship due to a myriad of mistakes most of which were your own. The GM can't give you back your ship because there's no valid reason whatsoever to do so. You just learned the expensive way that if you fire on NPC's they will most likely fire back. And yet here you are pretending like this is some dramatic failure on the side of CCP's customer service, can you please enlighten the rest of us how this is CCP being arrogant? I've always thought of it as keeping the game as fair as possible for everyone but obviously you've seen something the rest of us missed here. Let me put it this way, if you get your ship back, I'm cancelling my subscription. Please, grab a frigate or cruiser, finish the mission and start getting your BS back. You got around 40m isk back even without insurance so use it and move on.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Wrangler The GMs are always respectful in their replies, but a answer that says that can't reimburse a loss is often taken badly. Indeed. It's actually rather depressing the number of players that seem to think being respectful of players, and providing good customer service, should equate to being given whatever they want, whenever they want. All whilst being happily oblivious that such an attitude is hugely disrespectful of both the GMs, who are working within a strict set of rules as to what they can or can't do, and the rest of the playerbase that manages to get through the game just fine without being compensated for every bad decision they make.
Regma	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Hakera you lost a bs to a lvl 2 mission? which mission was it? tbh, CCP should not reward stupidity which is why you will not be reimbursed. EVE fact of the day.
Tenashi	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:19:00 - [31] u could have seen that the convoy at the 1st meeting point contained several faction battleships Everlasting Vendetta - Search
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:27:00 - [32] Edited by: Trooper B99 on 07/04/2005 10:28:14 Look upon it as a learning experience. From now on you'll . . . . . . be a damn site more careful and read your mission descriptions before accepting the mission. . . . insure your ships . . . think before you fire. If something isn't aggro'ing you, then some of the time there is a reason for that. . . . think twice before engaging a massive fleet of Battleships, cruisers and Interceptors without being ready to warp away if things start to look bad. . . . use at max cruiser for lvl 2 missions instead of a battleship which, as everyone knows, is complete overkill. Best advice: Go away, calm down, stop impuning CCP and the paid GM's about what was clearly your own fault. Live and learn laddie, live and LEARN. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:39:00 - [33] Originally by: Brechan Skene "The mission brief stated that I should not fire onto the first group of ships. This information has caused alot of confusion .The consequences is I have lost my Battle Ship" So let me get this right, the mission brief said not to fire on the first group of ships and you did!! So why do you think you need a refund for something by your own admission you didnt follow. If i bought 1 unit of trit from escrow for 100mil for not reading the description properly would i deserve a refund, or would i simply get flamed for being an idiot! Death to the Galante
Sarkos	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:47:00 - [34] shakes his head sadly Surely, Darwinism at work. Hint: BS's are not needed until level 4 missions. A cruiser is almost obverkill on many level 2 missions. Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
pardux	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:53:00 - [35] sabotage mission read the mission description and bs is a overkill for lvl2 missions Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:57:00 - [36] Had a loss myself recently which i petitioned as the loss's cercumstances (k i cant spell) were wierd to say the least. I petitioned and was told that the server logs didnt contain the info required for reimbursment. I thought "fair enough" but decided to give them every bit of info on what happened just in case they could solve the problem from happening again. At this point i knew i was not going to get the ship back and was ok with that. It appeared from the further replies that there was little concern with what i had sent in regarding the bug and replies tended to revolve more around the reimbursment that i had already agreed to not get. We all lose ships some our fault some server and some client. It seems that when its the client that is at fault they are not willing to look at it (by client i mean the eve software on the machine) Although a full description was sent though. I can take the loss of the raven and 200 mil of mods on the chin but would like to know that something would be done so that it wouldnt happen again. A little off the original topic maybe but on the same subject
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.04.07 10:58:00 - [37] Ok from what I get out of this: You attacked the people you were sent to aid? Your a newbie in a battleship? Your did not insure that battleship? Your choice of weapons was cruiser class weapons? Reading and comperhension are not your strong suits? NOW.... How am I going to explain the coffe splattered all over my computer to the IT department.... "Well I was reading this game forum see...and this dude who really did not know what he was doing got his arse kicked....." Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box and from this site.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Roshan longshot Ok from what I get out of this: NOW.... How am I going to explain the coffe splattered all over my computer to the IT department.... "Well I was reading this game forum see...and this dude who really did not know what he was doing got his arse kicked....." ROFL
Boffin	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:13:00 - [39] Did you attack the friendlies at the beginning of the sabotaged mission and lose your ship, OR Did you read the mission brief and interpret that you should not return fire at the first "hostile" spawn that you get sent to after the initial meeting? whichever it was, i believe it was your own mistake as you should have read the mission brief properly. If it was the 2nd reason, please let us know for amusement purpose only, at what point you started getting concerned that your agent had double crossed you
sariss	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:14:00 - [40] From my point of view there are two things to say: 1) Everybody knows this mission. This is the first case i ever heard of that someone shot the convoy escort. If you shoot them its clearly your fault. Theres absolutely no point why CCP should give you your ship back. You blame CCP for a mistake you have done. If you dont understand the game mechanics then do not take valuable ships in combat. 2) CCP is a excellent corporation. They care for the game and they care for the customers. If you doubt this then try another big MMORPG. See how customers are handled there.
Wrangler	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:17:00 - [41] Originally by: MacMillan Had a loss myself recently which i petitioned as the loss's cercumstances (k i cant spell) were wierd to say the least. I petitioned and was told that the server logs didnt contain the info required for reimbursment. I thought "fair enough" but decided to give them every bit of info on what happened just in case they could solve the problem from happening again. At this point i knew i was not going to get the ship back and was ok with that. It appeared from the further replies that there was little concern with what i had sent in regarding the bug and replies tended to revolve more around the reimbursment that i had already agreed to not get. We all lose ships some our fault some server and some client. It seems that when its the client that is at fault they are not willing to look at it (by client i mean the eve software on the machine) Although a full description was sent though. I can take the loss of the raven and 200 mil of mods on the chin but would like to know that something would be done so that it wouldnt happen again. A little off the original topic maybe but on the same subject Thats because anything you send in can have been altered somehow, the GMs can only trust their own logs. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Yeux Gris	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:19:00 - [42] Sounds alot like Sabotage to me... That fleet is optional And I lost a ship to the mission too.. Petitioned it as the only ships i attacked were the frigates with bounties. ended up getting ganked by all of them. was nice of ccp to gove my ship back :) And it was your dumb fault for underestimatig the ships. learn from it. Who let the cows out?! mOo. mOo. mOo.. mOo mOo...! WTB 8x 280mm Scout Howies. Will pay 20% more than Naga's current price
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:38:00 - [43] To the nice flamers, It so nice that not only have you not read the section that says if you cannot say anything positive go shove it were the sun does not shine, you also assume things that I did during the mission. Its nice being able to see things from nothingand come to some conclusion from non-existance facts. At no stage did I fire upon the ships. I did not even use harsh language.Since you can read minds you might want to tell me the next LOTTO numbers as well, you tools. Here's the facts. The fleet went and attacked me. So if you are going to assume things about what I did or did not do, go and assume them somewhere else. I clearly acknowledge to the happy flamers that if I had fired on them and had the same result it would definitely be my fault and I would definitely deserve it( especially since I had no insurance)and you would not have even known about this incident. For the reason that I used a BS in lvl 2 missions. I rarely ever did the missions in the first place. I was only going through the motion to get to at least lvl 3 mission. The problem I have is that the scenario did not go as it was stated in the mission briefings. If that was a bug I do not know. TO REPEAT I DID NOT INITIATE WEAPON FIRE ON THE SABOTAGE MISSION. SO DO NOT ASSUME THAT I DID.
Yeux Gris	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:47:00 - [44] dood.. I can fly through the fleet and not get attacked. I know this mission inside out :) U must have done something to set them off. next time do it from far away! like 100km as the 3 bs's will kick your ass while the 8 frigates warp and scramble you and the 5 cruisers annoy the **** out of you. Who let the cows out?! mOo. mOo. mOo.. mOo mOo...! WTB 8x 280mm Scout Howies. Will pay 20% more than Naga's current price
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Brechan Skene TO REPEAT I DID NOT INITIATE WEAPON FIRE ON THE SABOTAGE MISSION. SO DO NOT ASSUME THAT I DID. hmm then it sounds like a bug to me and hence a refund should be given, i can also understand your annoyance but really discussing mod actions on the forums isnt allowed. I wish you well in getting a new ship but i guess these things happen and if they did agress you then there should be a log of it on the server. I guess it would help to know exactly what you did in your mission, was it a case of turning up and getting blasted or did you accidently fire on something you wernt supposed to? I know you said you didnt but in the heat of battle something could happen. Anyway really you need to talk to the Devs about this not flame the forums cos things didnt go your way, if you think you have been treated unfarely then email the devs or something... Death to the Galante
Stacy Stain	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:49:00 - [46] Originally by: Brechan Skene To the nice flamers, It so nice that not only have you not read the section that says if you cannot say anything positive go shove it were the sun does not shine, you also assume things that I did during the mission. Its nice being able to see things from nothingand come to some conclusion from non-existance facts. At no stage did I fire upon the ships. I did not even use harsh language.Since you can read minds you might want to tell me the next LOTTO numbers as well, you tools. Here's the facts. The fleet went and attacked me. So if you are going to assume things about what I did or did not do, go and assume them somewhere else. I clearly acknowledge to the happy flamers that if I had fired on them and had the same result it would definitely be my fault and I would definitely deserve it( especially since I had no insurance)and you would not have even known about this incident. For the reason that I used a BS in lvl 2 missions. I rarely ever did the missions in the first place. I was only going through the motion to get to at least lvl 3 mission. The problem I have is that the scenario did not go as it was stated in the mission briefings. If that was a bug I do not know. TO REPEAT I DID NOT INITIATE WEAPON FIRE ON THE SABOTAGE MISSION. SO DO NOT ASSUME THAT I DID. You probably attacked the convoy.
Ryy Kishin	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:52:00 - [47] (The directions lead me into a situation which placed my ship in danger.) Stay docked if you dont want to put your ship in danger. Live Hard Die Young Leave A Good Looking Corpse!
Stroke	Posted - 2005.04.07 11:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Lygos This is a game of Corporate conflict. Were you really surprised that you got screwed by the fine print? This is one of the best lines i've read in awhile.
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.04.07 12:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Yeux Gris Sounds alot like Sabotage to me... That fleet is optional And I lost a ship to the mission too.. Petitioned it as the only ships i attacked were the frigates with bounties. ended up getting ganked by all of them. was nice of ccp to gove my ship back :) And it was your dumb fault for underestimatig the ships. learn from it. So you got your ship back. Good for you. What if he did have same situation as you did? Definately he should not get his ship back, since this would be unfair towards you. Come to think of it, you got that ship already, so there is none available to be given to him. Now there! SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.07 12:09:00 - [50] Originally by: MacMillan At this point i knew i was not going to get the ship back and was ok with that. It appeared from the further replies that there was little concern with what i had sent in regarding the bug and replies tended to revolve more around the reimbursment that i had already agreed to not get. That's because the GM's do not handle bug reports. If you wanted to file it as a bug report, you should have submitted it as a bug report, not a petition. Originally by: MacMillan We all lose ships some our fault some server and some client. It seems that when its the client that is at fault they are not willing to look at it (by client i mean the eve software on the machine) Although a full description was sent though. The problem is that if it was the client at fault, the server won't know about it, and the GM's only know what the server knows. Pretty much any evidence you could send to the GM (chatlogs, screenshots etc) can all be faked, so the GM's cannot trust any such submissions when deciding on claims.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2005.04.07 12:39:00 - [51] I have to say this mission does suck. You get clearly warned not to attack the first convoy, so I didnt. Got a mission update that said attack stuff so, I looked briefly at the targets list and ALL "+" were cruiser or frigate level .... easy NOT! Got spanked. Some of those medium sized (cruiser) "+" signs are actually BS's. Why do they not show up as the larger thicker plus signs??????!!!!!! Yes. It was my fault. I engaged without checking the targets in detail but, as there are so many of them and this is a level 2 mission ... well ... my mistake. TBH, i find missions so mind numbingly boring that the boredom also probably contributed but hey, its taught me to hate missions even more I don't know how you mission runners cope. And tbh, if you aint got anything constructive to say don't say anything. Insulting people's intelligence isn't very nice and often the only recourse of people with nothing worth adding. Yeah the original post was not put the best way but well we aint all perfect! Be lucky! Darwin 4tw
Phearlene	Posted - 2005.04.07 12:45:00 - [52] Rule #1.. if it ain't tagged with a red "+" DON'T fire on it!! Rule #2 .. if you DO fire on a non hostile expect a Concord proctology Exam.. and they will NOT be gentle. Rule #3 .. if firing on a specifically stated NON agression target (and that mission says don't fire unless you are PREPARED to take on the friendly spawn) you're as mad as a March Hare if you expect CCP to give your ship back. They won't give a ship even to legitamate bugs .. and terminal daftness is NOT considered a bug. Rule #4 . I.T.B.L!!
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.04.07 12:59:00 - [53] hehe I still think this thread is hilarious To the original poster... Cry me a river Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Talland	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:10:00 - [54] This is a feature not a bug. This mission is Eve's version of the Darwin Awards and it seems that natural selection is working just fine !
dmaul raven	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:13:00 - [55] Lol, i did this stage for a lvl 3 agent in a SHUTTLE. I just warped 60km from the convoy and got three bookmarks. I went back to station, took my fighter and followed the BM¦s.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:16:00 - [56] some of you are funny.. "HAHAHAHAH URE AN IIDIOT!!!!!!11" yet you had trouble even reading through his post? He said he didn't attack the convoy, CLEARLY it wasn't his fault. Someone else came into the thread and even posted "blhablah stupid.. i did the same thing and ccp replaced my ship!! but ure stupid!" something else I wanna ask about.. you guys actually insure ships? I've been playing for nearly a year and a half, I use to insure ships.. but now I don't. I honestly consider insurance something to help a newb with the loss of a ship, not something everyone should have. The only time I would carry insurance is if I was at war in empire. serious question, do you guys insure your shuttles when you buy them? ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Demangel	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:25:00 - [57] Edited by: Demangel on 07/04/2005 13:29:13 Haha I know exactly the mission he's talking about, it is indeed level two, and if you made the mistake he probably made, nobody here could say they could walk away from it solo without a popped ship. BUT In big bold red text near the bottom of the conversation AND in the extra details it clearly says something to the effect of: "You are not under any circumstances intended to attack the ships in the first encounter group." (edited) Ok so he says he didn't shoot first, maybe he webbed? if all he did was warp in... Then it sounds like a bug to me too... But IMHO if the logs don't show it as he said it happened... whats he expect? Hell I could go in right now and say "uhm, yeah I lost 3 BS's and about 200 million in implants and uhm... yeah I never shot one shot!" And I'd expect refunds all over the place. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:36:00 - [58] Thats because anything you send in can have been altered somehow, the GMs can only trust their own logs. I understand that and am not bothered about the returning my ship to me. My "gripe" is with the lack of interest in the possible bug.
Demangel	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:42:00 - [59] Originally by: ErrorS some of you are funny.. "HAHAHAHAH URE AN IIDIOT!!!!!!11" yet you had trouble even reading through his post? He said he didn't attack the convoy, CLEARLY it wasn't his fault. Someone else came into the thread and even posted "blhablah stupid.. i did the same thing and ccp replaced my ship!! but ure stupid!" something else I wanna ask about.. you guys actually insure ships? I've been playing for nearly a year and a half, I use to insure ships.. but now I don't. I honestly consider insurance something to help a newb with the loss of a ship, not something everyone should have. The only time I would carry insurance is if I was at war in empire. serious question, do you guys insure your shuttles when you buy them? Ok question for YOU, are you really so trusting as to think he is nescessarily telling the truth? Sure maybe we are bing a bit harsh on him, but wow... your insurance argument however is pretty silly, and kind of killed all my sympathy in general. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Demangel	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:46:00 - [60] Originally by: MacMillan Thats because anything you send in can have been altered somehow, the GMs can only trust their own logs. I understand that and am not bothered about the returning my ship to me. My "gripe" is with the lack of interest in the possible bug. If thats your only real "gripe" then I retract all hostile or unsympathetic statements I made about or in regards to you. Send in that bug report and hope they look into it. But in that event keep in mind mission bugs can be a pain to track down... for all they know it's something in the NPC scripts/AI, something somehow caused by lag, or maybe even a GUI issue that activated something without your knowledge? Plus there Is the off chance you made the error somewhere, they have to consider that... and if there arn't enough reports like yours being filed, I wouldn't blame em only for giving this issue a passing concern. Considering how much ELSE CCP has to work on LOL Anyway... I wish you luck getting this potential bug eradicated, and I'm sorry for your loss. bows Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:52:00 - [61] Originally by: Demangel Originally by: MacMillan If thats your only real "gripe" then I retract all hostile or unsympathetic statements I made about or in regards to you. Send in that bug report and hope they look into it. But in that event keep in mind mission bugs can be a pain to track down... for all they know it's something in the NPC scripts/AI, something somehow caused by lag, or maybe even a GUI issue that activated something without your knowledge? Plus there Is the off chance you made the error somewhere, they have to consider that... and if there arn't enough reports like yours being filed, I wouldn't blame em only for giving this issue a passing concern. Considering how much ELSE CCP has to work on LOL Anyway... I wish you luck getting this potential bug eradicated, and I'm sorry for your loss. bows I think your right. Bugs are hard to track down without enough examples. I think i will post in the issues forum and see if its 1) just me that it happened to or 2) happens to lots of peeps or god forbid 3) its always done it, its supposed to do it
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:57:00 - [62] Edited by: Roshan longshot on 07/04/2005 13:57:19 I think in the heat of battle, or fog of war, or not really paying attention, said original poster came out of warp and seen a boat load of "red" icons on the overview... "Captain!! Hostiles all around us!!!" Cries the sensor operator, who just splattered coffee all over his controls. "What?...Where...who? Oh hell FIRE!!!!" Cries the captain who was heavly invovled in the DVD "Shawn of the Dead." "ahhh..."the sensor operator mumbles."I may have ooops...." Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box and from this site.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 13:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Roshan longshot Edited by: Roshan longshot on 07/04/2005 13:57:19 I think in the heat of battle, or fog of war, or not really paying attention, said original poster came out of warp and seen a boat load of "red" icons on the overview... "Captain!! Hostiles all around us!!!" Cries the sensor operator, who just splattered coffee all over his controls. "What?...Where...who? Oh hell FIRE!!!!" Cries the captain who was heavly invovled in the DVD "Shawn of the Dead." "ahhh..."the sensor operator mumbles."I may have ooops...." sooo funny!
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:07:00 - [64] Originally by: MacMillan Thats because anything you send in can have been altered somehow, the GMs can only trust their own logs. I understand that and am not bothered about the returning my ship to me. My "gripe" is with the lack of interest in the possible bug. Thats why I also mentioned in the same post that GM's do not handle bug reports. If you want to flag up a bug to CCP, submit a bug report for them to look into. Of course, you still won't get a personal response to your bug report. That doesn't mean they don't care, just that if they kept up a personal dialogue with everyone so submitted a bug report, the bug fixing team would be too busy writing mails to actually fix any bugs. You just have to submit the report, and trust that they'll do what they can about it.....bearing in mind if it is hard to replicate, it'll be hard to find the cause, and thus fix. A good bug report will describe exactly what you did in as much detail as possible, and hints on how to replicate the buggy sequence of events. Running the log server when going into a known-buggy action is also helpful for them.
MacMillan	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:12:00 - [65] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: MacMillan Thats because anything you send in can have been altered somehow, the GMs can only trust their own logs. I understand that and am not bothered about the returning my ship to me. My "gripe" is with the lack of interest in the possible bug. Thats why I also mentioned in the same post that GM's do not handle bug reports. If you want to flag up a bug to CCP, submit a bug report for them to look into. Of course, you still won't get a personal response to your bug report. That doesn't mean they don't care, just that if they kept up a personal dialogue with everyone so submitted a bug report, the bug fixing team would be too busy writing mails to actually fix any bugs. You just have to submit the report, and trust that they'll do what they can about it.....bearing in mind if it is hard to replicate, it'll be hard to find the cause, and thus fix. A good bug report will describe exactly what you did in as much detail as possible, and hints on how to replicate the buggy sequence of events. Running the log server when going into a known-buggy action is also helpful for them. I would love to run the log server but this is the first real buggy thing in the 5 months i have been playing. Running the server constantly could cause a few othe bugs on its own! I have put it on the issues forum and will submit a bug report depending on the views/comments from others (just in case its me )
ElDiablo	Posted - 2005.04.07 14:20:00 - [66] I want to know what Corp his was using to run agents for. I have done a few different ones and to my knowledge the only mission under level 2 category is (name I cant remember) kill mission where you have 5 different destinations. The first being a fleet of Caldari Navy Issue ships. If you warp into where they are they say hello, glad you made it. You have an option to attack them, but its clearly stated and you are warned that they are there, and that you do not have to if you do not want to. They do not attack you at all. This sounds like someone made a mistake and they are taking it to the forums in hopes that they will be donated to.
Rambler	Posted - 2005.04.07 15:02:00 - [67] Breschan, I hope you and all those who support you learnt their lessons. Never ever complain. Never state a belief that the company is at any fault. Never place blame on the company. It was your fault, always will be your fault. Three pages of "ha, you n00b, you suck, I am great, blah ******* blah" should have convinced you of this by now. Its like insulting God in some bible bash community's church. "The almighty one would never do anything wrong! If something happened, then it was we (or you, complainer in this case) who sinned!" The only reason why the extra long thread by Marcus didn't get flamed out was because a CCP dev (worshipped saints) intervened. If you want to leave, leave. Don't attempt constructive posts. The only way for you to really matter in a group of 60 K is to have your account "discontinued by client" along with the other unsatisfied players. Le meglio Þ l'inimico del bene
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.04.07 15:41:00 - [68] while i think he is lying about not shooting the ships, or maybe he just somehow has a reallly bad standing? but all the people who have responded without reading a bit of what has been said are making me sick.
kieron	Posted - 2005.04.07 15:43:00 - [69] This thread has degenerated into a flamefest. Time to close the topic. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

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