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Banisher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 18:32:00 -
[31]
Do warp disruptors get you out of warp whilst warping or just prevent the warp sequence from initiating?
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Serilla
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Posted - 2005.04.08 18:34:00 -
[32]
i do not want to see instas nerfed......
instead bump up mobile warp disrupters..
Make them deployable in <.3 sec systems.
do not nerf our quick travel system please
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.08 19:01:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Banisher
Do warp disruptors get you out of warp whilst warping or just prevent the warp sequence from initiating?
They do both, but aren't very reliable. I have limited experience with these and the effects I seen were sometimes odd.
Originally by: cristari
I'm sorry dude but gate camping should not be allowed if you want to shoot someone go to war! Look for them! Take the time to find their safespots!! Just don't sit at gates, then complain when you cant shoot someone!! Everything else you have said seams to make sense.
Ok, I can agree with most of your points. I really with that last one was a viable alternative, but unfortunately it is not. EVE does not have the tools to make it viable. It's too easy to avoid any conflict, people always want to avoid it when odds are against them.. so what's left? gate camps. I don't like it, but I do it as it's effective.
I really wish there were effective methods of breaking safe spots. I really wish there were effective methods of finding selected targets in EVE and forcing them to fight. I almost managed to do this after 2 hours of organizing and using locator agents, then finally during the fight the guy just warped off cause apparently het had 2+ warp core stabilizers. I'm jsut pointing out how easy it is to avoid combat.. gate camps is the only reliable solution
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Kayoss
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Posted - 2005.04.08 19:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Banisher
I agree, bookmarks are a problem, insta jumps and docks should be the norm, the 15m space is a waste of gaming time and there only for the campers gankers.
I say we should all have insta jumps and docks so we can play the game intead of ****ing time away on unwanted travel!.
I agree 100% with this statement.
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Duke Danger
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Posted - 2005.04.08 19:36:00 -
[35]
Just change the name from 'Instas' to 'Express Lane' and all the problems go away.... Trust me...
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.04.08 19:44:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Verone
here we go again
LOLLERSKATES! That emoticon pwns all!
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Emeline Cabernet
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Posted - 2005.04.08 19:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fortior
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Fortior
Most people would agree that instas are a problem
Nope.
And post suggestions in the suggestion forum.
Well, seeing how people keep asking the devs about it, I'd rate it as a problem.
Yes, I should've posted it there, but this gets more attention and thus feedback.
they are not asking, they are *****ing
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var'ulfur
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Posted - 2005.04.08 20:16:00 -
[38]
this has gone on since beta 4 i think. ccp will not drop them for doing it would mean recoding so many line os code to keep bookmarks but stop them from being use as instas.
guys come on out of evey 8 that get though 25 more dont cant get better odds anywhere
the horse is dead let it rest in peace
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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worker
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Posted - 2005.04.08 20:39:00 -
[39]
Instas are not the problem they are a solution to a problem. that problem being gate gankers in 0.1 - 0.4 and before evryone screams carebear lamer newb etc.
You sit there ganking people at almost no risk you make your isk and have you "fun" if thats what you wish to call it, but us "carebears" make our isk in empire 0.5+ mining, manufacturing agent missions etc thats what we want to do.
If we need to go to 0.0 for what ever reason, mainly tons of cheap mega and zyd then why should we spend X number of seconds floating to a gate in our ships to be shot at by gank squads? we dont have to instas help us live a little longer and save a ton of time. if i have to spend a hour extra hauling megacyte from 0.0 because i have no megacyte thats a hour less i can spend mining base minerals which are needed in much vaster quanititys to make most stuff. so that you gankers can go out and lame it up at the gates.
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Dakath
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Posted - 2005.04.08 22:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Fortior
Most people would agree that instas are a problem that needs fixing. I came up with a very easy solution (I apologize if someone else has already written about it) during the slow hours at work.
I propose that a timer is used when jumping, and that gates use a similar command as stations (instead of "dock", "jump". d'uh  ). That would make instas useless while not affecting normal jumps. Let me explain.
From the moment you choose "jump", a timer is initiated. Player A warps in at the regular 15 km, issues "jump" and the timer starts counting down X seconds before Player A is cleared for jumping. Player B jumps in 10 m from the gate and issues "jump" but has to wait X seconds before jumping. Player A's timer would be finished by the time he gets to the gate and can jump when in range. Player B's timer would still count down despite him being in range, and thus has to wait before it's finished before jumping.
Now, please, this is a small idea so turn down the flaming 
I have a better idea. Make all weapons not fire within 100,000km of all stations and gates. That includes NPCS and especially pie-rats. No more ganking, no more need for insta-jumps. Of course lazy pie-rats would have to work for kills.
I would feel their pain and 
I chopped Bunny into little pieces.
\ ( )( X > ) ( .x ) / < _
Muahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Sic Transit Gloria Bunny! |
cristan
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Face Lifter
Originally by: Banisher
Do warp disruptors get you out of warp whilst warping or just prevent the warp sequence from initiating?
They do both, but aren't very reliable. I have limited experience with these and the effects I seen were sometimes odd.
Originally by: cristari
I'm sorry dude but gate camping should not be allowed if you want to shoot someone go to war! Look for them! Take the time to find their safespots!! Just don't sit at gates, then complain when you cant shoot someone!! Everything else you have said seams to make sense.
Ok, I can agree with most of your points. I really with that last one was a viable alternative, but unfortunately it is not. EVE does not have the tools to make it viable. It's too easy to avoid any conflict, people always want to avoid it when odds are against them.. so what's left? gate camps. I don't like it, but I do it as it's effective.
I really wish there were effective methods of breaking safe spots. I really wish there were effective methods of finding selected targets in EVE and forcing them to fight. I almost managed to do this after 2 hours of organizing and using locator agents, then finally during the fight the guy just warped off cause apparently het had 2+ warp core stabilizers. I'm jsut pointing out how easy it is to avoid combat.. gate camps is the only reliable solution
So basically you want CCP to make a pirats job easy!!!
GOD WILL THESE PPL STOP MOANING!!!
I haven't moaned once about searching for safespots, using the probes is excelent I have come very close to finding safespots, It makes the game more pleasing to find a hard kill, and forcing them into hideing is better than having them shooting at you're other ships!!
I mean come on is there any reason why we are still talking about this!!
PLEASE CCP PUT A BLOCK ON THE WHOLE SUBJECT ON THE FORUMS!!!!
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cristari
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:56:00 -
[42]
Edited by: cristari on 10/04/2005 07:56:37
Just incase you didn't know that was my alt!!
Who is now going into liquidation!!
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.04.10 09:31:00 -
[43]
Do you even know how long it takes to get deep into 0.0 WITH instas. With your suggestion noone would ever travel up and down.
As if travelling wouldn't be too boring/time consuming as it is allready right now.
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2005.04.10 10:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Fortior
Most people would agree that instas are a problem that needs fixing. I came up with a very easy solution (I apologize if someone else has already written about it) during the slow hours at work.
I propose that a timer is used when jumping, and that gates use a similar command as stations (instead of "dock", "jump". d'uh ). That would make instas useless while not affecting normal jumps. Let me explain.
From the moment you choose "jump", a timer is initiated. Player A warps in at the regular 15 km, issues "jump" and the timer starts counting down X seconds before Player A is cleared for jumping. Player B jumps in 10 m from the gate and issues "jump" but has to wait X seconds before jumping. Player A's timer would be finished by the time he gets to the gate and can jump when in range. Player B's timer would still count down despite him being in range, and thus has to wait before it's finished before jumping.
Now, please, this is a small idea so turn down the flaming
Sounds like, "Eiter warp to a gate at 15KM, or get re-occuring Warp jumping Bug". Your also nerfing the ability to use a frigate with a MWD that warps to a gate at 15KM... and depending upon how long the timer it, maybe cruisers too. It ideas nice, but impractical.
P.S. Im against removing instas 
___________
*I only have 5 months left of 'knowing at all'... I had better put it to good use* |
Fortior
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Do you even know how long it takes to get deep into 0.0 WITH instas. With your suggestion noone would ever travel up and down.
As if travelling wouldn't be too boring/time consuming as it is allready right now.
Yeah, I know how long it takes. I've been down to Impass a couple of times and it's not the most entertaining event I can think of. The timer I proposed would only be something like 5 seconds, not 15 seconds or something like that. That way jumping won't be 'instant' and still not the mindnumbing warp-in at 15km. Loosing 5 secs per gate is something I could live with.
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Shamen
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:54:00 -
[46]
The only idea people agree with (and its one i came up with is) have a gate orbit a certain point in space (orbit at 15km) so if you use insta's its very unlikely that you will be ontop of the gate...
_______________________
Vengeance Of The Fallen
Shamen - Captain & Forum warrior |
Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:46:00 -
[47]
Insta's are fine the way they are.
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:29:00 -
[48]
instajumps aren't a problem. they actually make the game better because they shorten those long boring multijump trips.
the problem with 0.0 is that the gameplay out there is sooooooo lame. Local garantees that you will be spotted the instant you enter a system and people running to unreachable safespots that can't be reached is the absolute lamest part of this game hands down.
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Krulla
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Fortior
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Fortior
Most people would agree that instas are a problem
Nope.
And post suggestions in the suggestion forum.
Well, seeing how people keep asking the devs about it, I'd rate it as a problem.
Yes, I should've posted it there, but this gets more attention and thus feedback.
The only people who think they are a problem are people like Digitalcommunist and Viceroy who go "ZOMG I can't gank like back in 2003! Remove sentries plz! Remove instas plz! Remove cocord plz!"
Instas = Gewd.
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Quakindude
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:44:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Quakindude on 10/04/2005 15:45:37
THe title says it all for the way some people think. Keep insta's but make them useless. Why would anyone keep something that doesn't work? 
As it is, in 0.0, people who wish to gank at the gates have to work for it. They setup on either side of the gate. They see someone warp into and insta-jump, the guys on the otherside have to work to catch that person. Linking sensors, jamming and disrupting are all on them. I see no reason to make 85% of the population in Eve work harder to please those that are whinning about having to work hard to gate gank.
The roles available in Eve are not ALL pirating or PvP'ing and indeed, those two roles make up very little of the overall percentage of players. While I am not a pirate and would never be, it is a role that is needed to enhance the gaming experience. PvP'ing is something I enjoy, but not all the time.
People who use insta's already work hard enough making them and tweaking them. It is just as viable a combat tactic as fleet operations with dedicated ECM ships. One more tool to keep in your toolbox. There are ways around Insta users just like insta users have ways around gate campers. It all works well together and removing Insta's would only frustrate the majority of players. If you need to gate gank, then you need to learn how to do it correctly and YOU gather the 10+ ships needed to run a gank effectively.
Insta's are fine the way they are.
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Juniper
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:59:00 -
[51]
Keep instas, just make the warp-in bubble size related to a skill.
The higher the level of skill trained, the more accurate your warp engines reach the zenith of the bookmark.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:05:00 -
[52]
Personally I use instas of course, as do most, Since without them everything is slower/riskier and thus less fun from that perspective, dont particularly want to see them leave.
I dont like them though, ever since beta when people started using them, they've been the atmosphere-killer to me (I may be wierd, but I like seeing ships flying through space)
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Dark Silver
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:07:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Dark Silver on 10/04/2005 17:09:23
Originally by: Banisher
I agree, bookmarks are a problem, insta jumps and docks should be the norm, the 15m space is a waste of gaming time and there only for the campers gankers.
I say we should all have insta jumps and docks so we can play the game intead of ****ing time away on unwanted travel!.
I second that, get rid of warp to distances all together, sureley by now you would have the technology to accurately warp a set distance and end up within docking/collection/jumping range of a station/cargo can/stargate without having to spend time travelling to it at a slower speed...
Originally by: Juniper
Keep instas, just make the warp-in bubble size related to a skill.
The higher the level of skill trained, the more accurate your warp engines reach the zenith of the bookmark.
This would also make an interesting improvement to the game, meaning that you could keep the warp in distance, but allow people to have shorter warp in distances due to skill (lv 5 being around 2k perhaps)
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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:20:00 -
[54]
I just wanted to point out really quickly to all those who think that instas are...
a dead horse.
fine.
not a problem.
perfect the way there are.
exactly how CCP want them.
(etc).
CCP seems to disagree with you. When asked about instas, this was the reply...
Originally by: Oveur
secondly, we're always considering what to do with instajumps and so far, we haven't seen a solution we're happy with
<snip>
Obviously it ranges from removing to replacing them with some kind of game mechanic
but yeah, the large disruptor and some tweaks to their size/cost/anchoring is coming up
on the possible solutions, we're looking for something closer to a game mechaning that replaces it to some extent, but whatever we would do, it's quite obvious that it's all a nerf
Now, it seems to me that they see them as something that needs to be nerfed, they are just deciding on exactly what to do with them. So they are most certainly far from being a dead horse, CCP is NOT happy with them how they are, and CCP disagrees that "Insta's are fine the way they are."
I also havn't seen a solution I'm 100% happy with as an idea. But I appreciate peoples thoughts and postings as to possible solutions. Perhaps we could just restrict the topic in posts that propose solutions to discussion of the proposed solution, and stop the dead horse and "instas are fine" spam.
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Fillmeup
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:00:00 -
[55]
Wow, I wish I had a dead horse emoticon for this thread ....
There is nothing wrong with insta's, and the only possible benfit to the eve-online universe to removing them is that it makes it easier for gate gankers.
Now, I like gate gankers. They add that little bit of stress / fear that makes the whole game interesting.
If you want to see an Exodus, but not out of empire to 0.0 but an exodus from Eve to other online games this would be, imho, the quickest way to do it. I have precisely 1 1/2 hours day to play this game after work and considering downtime falls 9-10pm at night for me - if I had to travel without instas I (and many others) would most probably leave due to the game becoming as boring as all hell. And all of this just to make it a non-event for gank gankers to get easy kills??
At best, 10% of the eve-universe whinge about this and surprisingly the majority of them are gankers.
Leave it alone. It's done and dusted. If you can't catch people with ista's at gates you are doing something very wrong.
Thats Life, Thats EVE(TM)
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Justin Cody
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Posted - 2005.04.11 00:26:00 -
[56]
I've been involved in gate ganks, and I must say that instas are not a problem at all. Gate gankers are not a problem. In 00 you can deploy a mobile warp disruptor to remove the use of instas for the most part. in low security empire, the best solution to gate ganking is a covert ops ship and a small cruiser/frigate gank fleet. There is no real way to deal with instas in low sec empire, nor should there be. Its not THAT risky there. Just leave things as they are.
==============
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Janara Kirk
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Posted - 2005.04.11 01:18:00 -
[57]
My vote is to keep the instas. I've had to work hard tweaking and setting them up, and even then they're not perfect. If I want to bring one little frigate out to 0.0, how am I supposed to stand up against apocs and Ravens? The people who know how to set up ganks properly have killed me, the ones who haven't, eat my dust.
Sometimes it just ends up being a hard chase...I think it adds to the game.. Take them away, and the only thing left in 0.0 will be ganker's and pirates.
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Orb Lati
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Posted - 2005.04.11 04:16:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Orb Lati on 11/04/2005 04:23:54
Perhaps the mistake was making them share-able.
If all BMs were locked to the character who made them and were not able to be shared then i feel alot of the contraversy for them would be gone.
If a player spends their own time making a 30+ jump route to speed their travel and help get past hot spots should they not reap the reward for that effort spent.
I think the issue was that they became so common due to shareablity among players.
Perhaps you might be best asking for CCP to first lock BMS to players then go thru there gate database and change all thier locations by shifting them in one of the x-y-z axis 100kms.
Of course with the new world order coming up that might be a good time to implement such a change.
However CCP would ned to put in a heft apology first to al those who have made thier own.
But in the interest of better game play i think most players would understand the sacrifice neccesary.
( i personally have made well over 1000 BMs and would be willing to sacrifies them all if they were made lockable to characters.)
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Judas Kirk
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Posted - 2005.04.11 05:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Orb Lati
Edited by: Orb Lati on 11/04/2005 04:23:54
Perhaps the mistake was making them share-able.
If all BMs were locked to the character who made them and were not able to be shared then i feel alot of the contraversy for them would be gone.
I don't agree that they should be locked. Look, I'm a n00b, and I'm little, I can't take on the big guys, or rats in 0.0 space, however, what I can do is make sweet bms through hot territory. I've perfected it to a fine art. Why shouldn't I be able to sell my skills and my bms on the free market? It makes me a valuable asset to my corp, and others, and helps me participate in the game
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asmath
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Posted - 2005.04.11 08:34:00 -
[60]
Insta's are a necessary part of the game, as annoying as they maybe at times i can't imagine going 30 40 jumps without them. If you want to gank someone at a gate I'll guess you'll just have to be faster and smarter. Don't ask for handouts
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