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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 08/04/2005 13:31:21
Hey,
I have been pondering having a named ranking system for pilots for a while now. I kinda like the idea of everyone having a nice ranking system where they can have a cool moniker and be able to see where they are instantly compared to similar pilots. Kinda like the "ace" pilot scheme that used to work in the world wars.
Therefore, I banged one together this morning using regular army, airforce, navy and oldskool rankings.
It is split into the 4 races - Amarr, Gallante, Caldari, Minmatar.
This is not what nationality you are but which ship you have been flying.
I.E.
Devvon Maelstorm currently has:
14 Kills in Amarr ships
10 Kills in Caldari ships
163 Kills in Gallante ships
26 Kills in Minmatar ships
Therefore, he would be a Second Lieutenant (GAL5).
If Devvon had 2 different races at ranking 5, he would be ranked as the one he had the highest kills with.
If Devvon had 2 different races at ranking 5 and equal kills on both, he would remain at with his previous highest title.
Some RKK peeps liked it, those who don't do the whole "must get more kills competition" didn't like it.
I figured I would open it up a bit to more PVP pilots and see what you all thought of it.
(Complete Pilot Rankings displayed on next post)
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 08/04/2005 16:41:26
Amarr
(AMM15) Ace - 1000 kills
(AMM14) Fleet Admiral - 900 kills
(AMM13) Admiral - 800 kills
(AMM12) Vice Admiral - 700 kills
(AMM11) Rear Admiral - 600 kills
(AMM10) Commodore - 500 kills
(AMM9) Captain - 400 kills
(AMM8) Commander - 300 kills
(AMM7) Lieutenant Commander - 250 kills
(AMM6) Lieutenant - 200 kills
(AMM5) Lieutenant Junior - 150 kills
(AMM4) Ensign - 100 kills
(AMM3) Apprentice - 70 kills
(AMM2) Squire - 30 kills
(AMM1) Nieub - less than 30 kills
Caldari
(CAL15) Ace - 1000 kills
(CAL14) General - 900 kills
(CAL13) Lieutenant General - 800 kills
(CAL12) Major General - 700 kills
(CAL11) Brigadier General - 600 kills
(CAL10) Colonel - 500 kills
(CAL9) Lieutenant Colonel - 400 kills
(CAL8) Major - 300 kills
(CAL7) Captain - 250 kills
(CAL6) First Lieutenant - 200 kills
(CAL5) Second Lieutenant - 150 kills
(CAL4) Soldier - 100 kills
(CAL3) Apprentice - 70 kills
(CAL2) Squire - 30 kills
(CAL1) Nieub - less than 30 kills
Gallante
(GAL15) Ace - 1000 kills
(GAL14) General - 900 kills
(GAL13) Lieutenant General - 800 kills
(GAL12) Major General - 700 kills
(GAL11) Brigadier General - 600 kills
(GAL10) Colonel - 500 kills
(GAL9) Lieutenant Colonel - 400 kills
(GAL8) Major - 300 kills
(GAL7) Captain - 250 kills
(GAL6) First Lieutenant - 200 kills
(GAL5) Second Lieutenant - 150 kills
(GAL4) Pilot - 100 kills
(GAL3) Apprentice - 70 kills
(GAL2) Squire - 30 kills
(GAL1) Nieub - less than 30 kills
Minmatar
(MIN15) Ace - 1000 kills
(MIN14) Samurai - 900 kills
(MIN13) Knight - 800 kills
(MIN12) Shogun - 700 kills
(MIN11) Sabre - 600 kills
(MIN10) Katana - 500 kills
(MIN9) Wakizashi - 400 kills
(MIN8) Rapier - 300 kills
(MIN7) Tachi - 250 kills
(MIN6) Tanto - 200 kills
(MIN5) Kenin - 150 kills
(MIN4) Naginata - 100 kills
(MIN3) Apprentice - 70 kills
(MIN2) Squire - 30 kills
(MIN1) Nieub - less than 30 kills
Misc
4 Race
(MA) Master at Arms - all 4 rankings at level 15 or above
(MD) Master Doyen - All 4 rankings at level 10 or above
(MC) Master Chief - All 4 rankings at level 5 or above
(MS) Master Short - All 4 rankings at level 4 or above
2 Race
(PA) Proficient at Arms - 2 rankings at level 15 or above
(PD) Proficient Doyen - 2 rankings at level 10 or above
(PC) Proficient Chief - 2 rankings at level 5 or above
(PS) Proficient Short - 2 rankings at level 4 or above
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:30:00 -
[3]
I worked through the RKK standings and the following pilots were worthy of mention:
Skygrazer has the highest ranking with a level 9 Amarr ranking of Captain.
Grimster is second with a level 7 Minnie Ranking of Tachi.
Dimensionz is third with a level 6 Amarr Ranking of Lieutenant.
Undertaker has the highest dual ranking with 2 level 4 Rankings.
Check out the other RKK standings here:
RKK standings
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:30:00 -
[4]
Sorry but no thanks.
The whole killmail culture is already bad enough as it is already.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:34:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Tobiaz
Sorry but no thanks.
The whole killmail culture is already bad enough as it is already.
This was ofc aimed at PVP'ers and not you ATUK miners :p
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Exelsior
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:35:00 -
[6]
Wouldn't this mean that people who dont like to fight, but prefere to mine, build and do generally peacefull things, would be counted as nOOb even though they know this game well and have played it a while? NOOB afaik means the person doesnt know the game mechanics, not the person doesnt like to kill. It would also not be taking in account for example, unfair ganks on other new players, so someone may have an ACE rank or whatever but would actually just be a ganker, and may lose fair fights 
No pain, No gain |
thelung187
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:36:00 -
[7]
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:46:22
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:42:37
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:41:24
When I first read it, I thought it was weird, but now I'm actually really intrigued as to what mine would be. Ofc, it'd be a bit of a pain in the ass, as sorting 120+ bs killmails sucks.
edit: I read this as kills, not ships flown. Going by this, I have GAL4, AMM4, and CAL4. This would make me a Proficient Short (Caldari and Amarr) along with a Gallente Pilot. Very cool idea 
Edit2: This is as of 05 April btw, there have since been additions :)
[ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or something |
Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:38:00 -
[8]
I must admit the similar mention in the Dev chat of defined war goals and medals seemed cool, maybe something like this could be included in the system too, if it ever gets implimented.
While I do believe there is more to the game than kills, having something that can add immersion might be cool.
In the same way the Cross of the Sacred Throne added something to the Minmatar-Amarr roleplay activities, even simple medals and titles could add distinction and individuality to a pilot's record to show their talents.
Even non-kill related - after all a corp might value someone with something like 'Miner under fire' or 'certified blockade runner' as merits from their past.
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pHASE 11
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:43:00 -
[9]
Edited by: pHASE 11 on 08/04/2005 13:45:47
You like to give yourself and corp members more administrative work or would those ranking calculations be included in the killboard?
Rankings are good for internal competition but here you have overdone it. Not simple enough.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Valentine Keen
In the same way the Cross of the Sacred Throne added something to the Minmatar-Amarr roleplay activities, even simple medals and titles could add distinction and individuality to a pilot's record to show their talents.
Aye,
because this was banged together, I couldn't find any race specific titles in the background stories quick enough so just stuck in my own.
I'd prefer it to be purely eve-based ofc and done in a proper RP way.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 08/04/2005 13:52:05
Originally by: Exelsior
Wouldn't this mean that people who dont like to fight, but prefere to mine, build and do generally peacefull things, would be counted as nOOb even though they know this game well and have played it a while?
Yes, this is purely for PVP'ers.
Perhaps I should have made the topic "PVP'ers ranking scheme" or something.
Originally by: Exelsior
It would also not be taking in account for example, unfair ganks on other new players, so someone may have an ACE rank or whatever but would actually just be a ganker, and may lose fair fights
In the World War rankings, we didn't differentiate between ganks, mistakes etc. ;)
Originally by: pHASE 11
You like to give yourself and corp members more administrative work or would those ranking calculations be included in the killboard?
Rankings are good for internal competition but here you have overdone it.
Took me about 10 minutes to work through the whole of RKK and work out their rankings.
If someone wanted to do it (like thelung187 just did) you would do it once and be able to keep track of your ranking pretty damn easily ;)
This is just for fun btw, nothing else really :p
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: thelung187
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:46:22
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:42:37
Edited by: thelung187 on 08/04/2005 13:41:24
When I first read it, I thought it was weird, but now I'm actually really intrigued as to what mine would be. Ofc, it'd be a bit of a pain in the ass, as sorting 120+ bs killmails sucks.
edit: I read this as kills, not ships flown. Going by this, I have GAL4, AMM4, and CAL4. This would make me a Proficient Short (Caldari and Amarr) along with a Gallente Pilot. Very cool idea
Edit2: This is as of 05 April btw, there have since been additions :)
Aye, there isn't a section for Pure Kills in the killboard at the minute.
So I just made it nice and easy and used the Ships Flown section.
Dimensionz is currently tweaking the killboard and once he has finished he is going to work on Killboard V2.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:50:00 -
[13]
Hmm, shame you can't paint them on the side of the ship really.
Plus could be titles for other tasks - POS bombing runs or whatever (I'm thinking along the lines of the honours in Star Wars fiction for Death Star runs on that one!)
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ScoRpS
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:52:00 -
[14]
It is a really good idea and perhaps some constructive ideas to smooth out the rough edges would be better.
How about a points system covering the type of kill, how many involved, system it was in and age+standing of victim. This could perhaps span from 1 vs 1 battle ship encounters in 0.0 scoring quite high for the victor to perhaps a very low score for lets say a gate camper in 0.4 scoring a 1 month old frigate pilot kill with several buddies involved on kill mail.
I understand this would be a logistical nightmare to work out but i like the initial idea and this kind of system would eradicate the effect of those cheap'ish kills against the ones where one pilot had to work his/her ass off to win.
Good luck DBP would be cool to see some sort of uniformed rating system as opposed to the fragmented info currently available. 
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Ghost Red
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:55:00 -
[15]
The argument is a double edged sword - on the one hand there is a point made that the lack of a kill system or a definitive measurement of kills for PvP'ers leads to lots of bickering and flames. I can also argue that having a kill system has exactly the same effect. I guess some people want to wear a badge saying "look at me, I'm uber" which is what this sort of thing boils down to. Its not something that I've ever been interested in, and tbh, I don't see the value in having medals, stars, rankings, etc maybe because that sort of thing has never interested me.
I think if you need to be validated like this in a game, then maybe you are playing the wrong game? I dunno, maybe I've read too much into this. I just think that it will cause more hassle and arguments in the long term.
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Misomusic! |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 08/04/2005 14:00:55
Scorps: we already have a points based system on the KB which takes into consideration insurance values.
However, sometimes our frigate pilots wonder where they are in relation to other pilots.
I just wanted to give peeps a nice basic structure based on nothing else but pure kills so that different pilots could rank each other and themselves.
Because we are a PVP corp, it was also to try and encourage our players to go out and do a bit more PVP outwith the fleets that we run.
Ghost Red: Alot of PVP'ers do like to wear OMGWTFBBQ badges. Not for any FPS style ganking ranking but more just as a justification that they are doing well in their respective PVP corp.
Like I mentioned above, some of my own corp has shown non-interest in it because they are not interested in competitive rankings like that.
It is no problem but I am kinda interested in what people who are interested in this sort of thing have to say.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Koda
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Posted - 2005.04.08 13:59:00 -
[17]
From a purely Pvp perspective, I like it.
Unfortunately, its premised on the kill mail system which lots of folks have problems with it since it's dependent on the pilot's integrity to post accurately and not make stuff up. (I think the system works better than many give it credit for but for the sake of argument the opportunity to fabricate kills exists)
And of course the non-pvper's will hate it.
Questions:
1) Does each pilot in the mail get counted for the kill or only the pilot who receives the mail?
2) Do pilot deaths have any effect on their ranking?
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Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 14:06:00 -
[18]
Koda: I've used Dimensionz Killboard which is pretty accurate.
1) Participation on kills is what I would base this on. Whoever recieves a Killmail is based on luck.
(The figures above are actually using kills and losses because we don't have a simple section for participation on kills in the kb atm)
2) Personally, I wouldn't have Players kills affecting the ranking.
Again, I point out that this is purely for PVP'ers who like this sort of thing ;)
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2005.04.08 14:08:00 -
[19]
I like the idea or ranking PVP pilots. However, I think the system you describe hurt the pilots who fill (support roles). Scramblers, tacklers, the noob who has to haul the mobile warp disruptur  . But hey, thats like real life, Quarterbacks get the girls.
DM
(ex-quarterback )
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Koda
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Posted - 2005.04.08 14:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: "DB Preacher"
Again, I point out that this is purely for PVP'ers who like this sort of thing ;)
dbp
Yup.
On reflection, deaths probably shouldn't count. I was thinking of the scoring systems used in some kill boards, except even then the death score is separate from kills (rather than detracting from them).
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Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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LLeBRing
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Posted - 2005.04.08 14:33:00 -
[21]
It won't work, would never be implemented and I certainly wouldn't support it.
Will do nothing but promote flaming and egotistical righteousness based on his or her ranking. I can see it now...
"STFU Noob, you have no say in matters because I wtfpwn all"
Also, there are too many people who don't PVP in this game. The ranking will do nothing but alienate them and the overall premise that EVE is much more then a PVP sim.
Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella  |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:14:00 -
[22]
Have to agree there, implementing this into actual game code would be one of the singlemost stupid things one could do to the community.
If you do it killboard-based, it should always incorporate losses as well. Since killing 200 BS when losing 300 makes you a pretty damn sad pilot imo.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
Have to agree there, implementing this into actual game code would be one of the singlemost stupid things one could do to the community.
If you do it killboard-based, it should always incorporate losses as well. Since killing 200 BS when losing 300 makes you a pretty damn sad pilot imo.
LLebring, Rod: yeah, I wasn't talking about implementing it into gamecode. More trouble than it's worth and no need for it when we do stuff like this out of game.
We are more looking to implement it into the killboard and are after people's thoughts, additions etc to the system.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:44:00 -
[24]
I pay more mind to reputation than numbers on a killboard.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:44:00 -
[25]
Bad idea, waste of time.
EVE isn't about penii comparisons. It's about getting out there and having fun. Heck, even I lost that perspective for awhile in 0.0 Returning to empire made me rediscover it.
You start categorizing players more than they already are (SP count, RP count, beta participation, etc..), and you'll see noobs quit in droves. No one likes to be on the bottom, so let's try and keep the bottom difficult to see as possible, mmkay?
As for yourself and your own corp, have at it! That's what titles are for, and killboards. Be creative, have fun! But don't force your view on everyone else when it simply doesn't make sense to do so.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault."
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Zothike
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:46:00 -
[26]
But there would be some exploit , some ppl can have some deal to shoot each other to increase kill ratio
and as it was in WWI and WWII (i dont know for now) killing a little helpless ship or a flying fortress give one kill
then a frigate killed would have same title than a bs killer ?
Regards
Zothike
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Cmd Woodlouse
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:48:00 -
[27]
I like the idea, especially the Minmatar-Rankings sound quite cool 
[G] - Pink Power
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ticondrius
Bad idea, waste of time.
EVE isn't about penii comparisons. It's about getting out there and having fun. Heck, even I lost that perspective for awhile in 0.0 Returning to empire made me rediscover it.
You start categorizing players more than they already are (SP count, RP count, beta participation, etc..), and you'll see noobs quit in droves. No one likes to be on the bottom, so let's try and keep the bottom difficult to see as possible, mmkay?
As for yourself and your own corp, have at it! That's what titles are for, and killboards. Be creative, have fun! But don't force your view on everyone else when it simply doesn't make sense to do so.
I think some peeps are missing the point.
I'm not forcing my view on other people... I'm looking to have a decent way for our pilots and other PVP'ers to rank themselves.
This would be tied more into the killboard we run than anything else and wouldn't be a comparison between peeps who didn't want to be compared.
I'm just looking for ideas (like the RP element that Valentine Keen put forward, or the BS killer scheme that Zothike put forward) in order to make it better.
I do hear where the negative comments are coming from, I really do. I'm not looking to make a global penii scheme at all. If corps wanted to use a scheme we utilise on our killboard, then that would be up to them not us!
Any other ideas and comments would be highly appreciated.
cheers,
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.04.08 15:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse
I like the idea, especially the Minmatar-Rankings sound quite cool
I bet You CE guys would already have some serious tachi and Wakizashi pilots :)
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.04.08 16:00:00 -
[30]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
Have to agree there, implementing this into actual game code would be one of the singlemost stupid things one could do to the community.
If you do it killboard-based, it should always incorporate losses as well. Since killing 200 BS when losing 300 makes you a pretty damn sad pilot imo.
LLebring, Rod: yeah, I wasn't talking about implementing it into gamecode. More trouble than it's worth and no need for it when we do stuff like this out of game.
We are more looking to implement it into the killboard and are after people's thoughts, additions etc to the system.
dbp
Oooh, in that case it's like putting a name to a certain amount of killoints gotten on killboard.net.
Sounds fine to me, personally I couldn't care much but I could see where it rocks alot of people's boat.
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