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Lvl 4 missions in anything except a raven

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Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.09 15:25:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/04/2005 15:25:56 Now im caldari, and proud i just wondered if it was actually possible/efficient to do level 4s in a HAC as quite francky BS'es suck or at least the raven does, ok sure its efficient but its just so boring.. I gave a lvl4 a go in an apoc with megapulses and i was hitting bs'es at optimal range for 80ish damage which as you'll agree is ** poor, ok i got the odd 400ish hit but using siege launchers aswell, my jugs hit for more, i could do more damage with medium guns ffs, Now im not a noob and have ~4mil in gunnary so should i just bite the bullet give up on BS'es and get a HAC (was thinking zelot, i love the proph, just wish it was slightly faster and a bit harder), Death to the Galante**
Wizard	Posted - 2005.04.09 15:38:00 - [2] Edited by: Wizard on 09/04/2005 15:39:06 I can fly both caldari and amarr HAC so you should be able to do similar thing in an eagle ( i have crappy hybrid skills so havent flown 1 ) to what i do in my zealot for lvl4 missions...........as long as they dont agro as soon as you there. Use your ab to get some range, i personally fit out the zealot with 1 sensor2 which gives me 105km locking distance and with 2 tracking enhancers and a tracking comp i get an optimal of 95km with 9k falloff with heavy beam 2s x4. I havent found a lvl4 that i cant do like this as long as i have the option to get range. It doesnt deal quite as much damage as my appoc but i find its better and quicker at taking out frigs and cruisers. I refuse to even train caldari bs because its sooo easy to jump in and own at a lot of things, im not calling for a nerf of missiles or raven but its definetly a bit overpowered IMHO.
Shaelin Corpius	Posted - 2005.04.09 21:01:00 - [3] I do some lvl4s in my megathron, cept the deadspace cause you can't use MWD there, which makes my setup useless inside DS. I prefer using other ships than the raven for missions when I can. Was using a wolf for all lvl3 missions. Cept some of the DS ones that had lots of inescapable sentry fire. Otherwise its a really fun ship to try em in. Plus you can actually pickup good loot alot faster.
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.04.10 01:15:00 - [4] I bet you had Large Energy I. By the time a torp hits, you can have loads of laser hits on a target without recieving any.
Taco Perez	Posted - 2005.04.10 04:52:00 - [5] I do all of my level 4 combat missions in a dominix. A set of well-chosen heavy drones will drop any bs, including the supreme drone parasite infestadom, quite quickly.
Swiftness	Posted - 2005.04.10 11:45:00 - [6] Tempest is very good too ... I did some guristas in it with 4* siege 4*1400mm ,1 large SB II 3 hardener 1 amp, couple PDU II ballistic gyrostab coprocessor. As usual torps own small ships and 1400's are very good complement on slow / far cruisers & all BS
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim Steele on 10/04/2005 14:29:41 Originally by: Kinsy I bet you had Large Energy I. Level IV if you must know.. I think it must be a tracking or fall off issue, im going to train up for t2 tracking computers to see if they help but at the moment im doing motion prediction 4-5. (All my other rank2 gunnary skills are at lvl 5 except weapons updgrades but ive not really had much problems with cpu, yet, so not bothered with it prefering better chance to hit etc. surgical strike is lvl4) Death to the Galante
Zaxx	Posted - 2005.04.10 19:41:00 - [8] Edited by: Zaxx on 10/04/2005 19:42:34 Originally by: Swiftness Tempest is very good too ... I did some guristas in it with 4* siege 4*1400mm ,1 large SB II 3 hardener 1 amp, couple PDU II ballistic gyrostab coprocessor. As usual torps own small ships and 1400's are very good complement on slow / far cruisers & all BS Have to agree. I've trained mostly tempest-related skills since I got my first one and the Raven is still easier, just nowhere near as much fun Nothing brings a smile to my face like seeing something totally vaporised with one volley from the 1400mm IIs... Regarding HAC, I've also polished off a few lvl4s with my Muninn. Granted it was vs laser rats (bloods) so the Muninn resists were in my favour, but still > Raven for fun ________________________________________________________
anter	Posted - 2005.04.10 20:19:00 - [9] I am going to agree with tempest. Plus extra speed help some in DS missions.
Gericault m0id	Posted - 2005.04.10 20:36:00 - [10] Originally by: Shaelin Corpius I do some lvl4s in my megathron, cept the deadspace cause you can't use MWD there, which makes my setup useless inside DS. I prefer using other ships than the raven for missions when I can. I use the mega for all missions, including deadspace. Deadspace missions are generally easier because you can attack clusters of pirates without everyone attacking back at once. My fitting is 425mm (antimatter/iron depending on range) + heavies; target booster and 425 mods + recharge; armour tanking and damage modes and large armour repairer. I hear scorpion (before nerf) and raven are far superior in lvl 4 missions but (1) although I might have to warp out (don't forget warp stabilizer :)) in some missions I can tank the mega much better than a raven with current skills, and (2) the mega looks better Originally by: Taco Perez I do all of my level 4 combat missions in a dominix. A set of well-chosen heavy drones will drop any bs, including the supreme drone parasite infestadom, quite quickly. I lost 7 domis in lvl 4 missions before my 'trust in drones' was replaced by the mega .. I'm currently trying to resist the raven temptation. All my Gallente friends have already succumbed to the Caldari temptation. Not me!

Taco Perez	Posted - 2005.04.10 20:43:00 - [11] I've only lost 2 domis since level 4s came out and I've done hundreds of kill missions. I've lost tons of drones, though, because some rats will target the weakest or nearest vessel if they haven't started firing on you yet. That's damn annoying.
aeti	Posted - 2005.04.10 20:50:00 - [12] who were you fighting with the apoc? as in do they have high resistances vs lasers?
F'nog	Posted - 2005.04.10 21:04:00 - [13] How long does it take to do the harder mission in a HAC? I know they can take the punishment, but can you do enough DOT to overcome the BSes' tanks? Do you have to use T2 weapons?
Altaireus	Posted - 2005.04.10 21:28:00 - [14] Originally by: F'nog How long does it take to do the harder mission in a HAC? I know they can take the punishment, but can you do enough DOT to overcome the BSes' tanks? Do you have to use T2 weapons? I¦m flying a Muninn for all lvl4 missions.. I can break most BS's tanks in my longrange setup using 3 heavy launchers and 650mm II's, but for supreme drone parasites and Mordus Mammoth i need to fit my shortrange setup which is 2 heavy launchers and 5x 425mm II's. I did Silence The Informant in 1h 40mins today, time limit is 2 hours. The only mission i cant do faster than time limit is Rogue Drone Harassment, time limit is only 45 minutes and it has 3 supreme drone parasites. It takes about an hour for me complete.
Slithereen	Posted - 2005.04.11 02:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Slithereen on 11/04/2005 02:36:50 I tried doing this and it was fun. I setup a Caracal with MWD and five heavy launchers. Yes, a Caracal. You get a mission like Pirate Slaughter, missions with multiple BMs and no deadspace. Warp in at 60km, turn around, and mwd to the other direction. But make sure all the inties aggro at you first. Do not try to target first. As you MWD or AB out of the swarm, make sure all the inties are following you. Don't get too close to them but make sure they don't lose you either. Fire the missiles as they chase you. As the inties chase you, the main spawn gets left behind and the inties are isolated. The missiles destroy the inties. Leave the main spawn. Go to the next bookmark. Rinse and repeat. If the BM has no inties, leave it and go to the next BM. Head back to base after you cleansed all the BMs of interceptors. Come back to the first BM with a Geddon. You can put your own favorite HAC or BS here. Now enjoy the main course. It works best on specific missions only and both caracal and bs must stationed in the same system as the mission so you don't waste much time warping in and out. I hate doing Pirate Slaughter with a torpedo laden ship due to the large amounts of torpedoes involved, and watching the slow torpedoes parade towards their targets gets boring quickly. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Sennju Zensu	Posted - 2005.04.11 07:25:00 - [16] can a megathron do some lvl 4 mission without big problems??? what type of fitting used? long ? close ?
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.11 07:52:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim Steele on 11/04/2005 07:53:12 Originally by: aeti who were you fighting with the apoc? as in do they have high resistances vs lasers? Its mostly Guristsas, with the occasional Bloodraiders thrown in, (i think its a bit unfair i can only do one damage type in the apoc, takes the ** really considering ravens have 100% damage to the type of their chosing). But they are the dullest ship ingame. Death to the Galante**
Fjellu	Posted - 2005.04.11 08:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Jim Steele Edited by: Jim Steele on 09/04/2005 15:25:56 Now im caldari, and proud i just wondered if it was actually possible/efficient to do level 4s in a HAC as quite francky BS'es suck or at least the raven does, ok sure its efficient but its just so boring.. I agree. Raven is boring. I do all non-DS and some DS in HAC, namely the Cerberus. I find it to be maybe the most efficient mission ship out there. You need uber equipment though. 5X CN or DG launchers and 4X decent BCU's. With a RoF of 6,14 and max damage with Scourges of 310, I actually do more DOT with Cerbie than my basic raven setup. it fits 4333 Scourges, which is more damage than you can carry on a raven. I have done both the L4 Mordu and even the Gurista EV 6th bonus stage in Cerbie. With DS missions the lag will be a problem since you have quite alot of Scourges in the air from 90km+ out.
Meathook	Posted - 2005.04.11 09:01:00 - [19] yup, tempest can be great fun to do lvl4 missions. Not the perfect ship, but in can be customized to meet almost any need, although i tend to favor dmg setups the most (you hardly need to do ubertank setups if you go with artillery and run a lot). Bit more skill demanding though. And in particular silence the informant can be a pain to do, i still got to find a specific setup that works equally good for the three tiers (i usually must swap from autocannons to artillery for 3rd tier, etc). That is if you do it solo though. If a friend is backing you up, it's just a matter of target managing and tanking ________________________________________ "Parental advisory: Explicit typos"
Jack Blank	Posted - 2005.04.19 14:35:00 - [20] Edited by: Jack Blank on 19/04/2005 14:35:19 I would like to try lvl4's in a mega, i just think it would be totally owned..does anyone have some advice on setups?

ponieus	Posted - 2005.04.19 15:05:00 - [21] A mega can do some lvl4 missions. I have been doing fine with my 350 tech2 setup.. until the duo of death.. even with a full rack of tech2 425's using am i was not able to break the npc tank. Just couldnt dish out enough damage. Had to call in help but still got it done.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.20 08:41:00 - [22] Originally by: ponieus A mega can do some lvl4 missions. I have been doing fine with my 350 tech2 setup.. until the duo of death.. even with a full rack of tech2 425's using am i was not able to break the npc tank. Just couldnt dish out enough damage. Had to call in help but still got it done. how do they handle on snip(i mean deadspace) missions? i tried with an apoc and it just didnt cut the cheese, please do not try to circumvent the profanity-filter - Sherkaner Death to the Galante
Hornymatt	Posted - 2005.04.20 09:35:00 - [23] When I get a normal space mission I use a Tempest with 1400 howies. Tried this on a deadspace mission when level 4 agents first came out (Serpentis Spies I think it was) but it took too long with much warping in, warping out and even docking to use armour reps a couple of times. As the devs said at that time that all combat missions (level 4 anyway) would be moved to deadspace I gave up mission running as not worth the time involved and took my Tempest out of empire for a little PvE. Only found out a couple of months ago that the stated transfer of all missions to deadspace didn't happen Been running missions ever since but must confess I trained up basic Raven skills for deadspace as got my butt handed to me when i tried Silence the Informant in a short ranged Temp
ponieus	Posted - 2005.04.20 10:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim Steele Originally by: ponieus A mega can do some lvl4 missions. I have been doing fine with my 350 tech2 setup.. until the duo of death.. even with a full rack of tech2 425's using am i was not able to break the npc tank. Just couldnt dish out enough damage. Had to call in help but still got it done. how do they handle on snip (i mean deadspace) missions? i tried with an apoc and it just didnt cut the cheese, easy... I dont do them.. cept for the ones where i know whats in there.. Duo of Death can be done but takes ALOT of Juggs and ALOT of ammo and ALOT of patience.. took so long that i am traing up for the raven... I hate to say it. I hate to fly it but i like lvl4 missions and the raven is about the only ship that can do these things in a timely manner.. but the mega sure is fun..
Selthae	Posted - 2005.04.20 10:59:00 - [25] I do all lvl4 missions in a Typhoon. Works like a charm usually, only the 2nd stage of rogue drone harassment I can't complete. I simply can't out-tank 2 parasites yet. (Maybe i should other hardeners than my angel tank eh?) :)
Nachtjaeger	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:41:00 - [26] I gave in to the propaganda for a while and used a Raven for level 4s, but only for about a week and a half before going back to my Tempest. Tempests just seem to be the more flexible ship, able to go from short range, torpedo chucking tank to a death from the other side of the grid sniper depending on the mission.
Hotice	Posted - 2005.04.21 04:28:00 - [27] I use apoc to do lvl 4 missions. So far I have done 14 missions including 2 duo of death. Even drone missions are easier than duo of death. You don't need to fly raven to do lvl 4 missions. However, raven indeed save you a lot of time. I refuse to train/fly raven though. Every single newbie pirate flys one around killing frigates/cruisers. It just ruined the ship reputation for me.
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.04.21 09:50:00 - [28] Jim, I haven't tried missions since the pulse/radio nerf, but I was able to solo all lvl4's (angels mostly, arguably the toughest rats) in an apoc prior to that. The key to using an apoc for lvl4's is the AB; this is what will enable you to get to your preferred range - long range & radio for cruisers and frigs (tho some frigs require that you use cruise or torps), short range & multi for bs's. The only change I see post patch is that you'll have to adapt your range to the new pulse range (for instance, for me, 53km max. with radio where it used to be 74km). A typical setup : 6x Mega Pulse (II's if you can), 2x Siege AB, 3x cap rechargers 2x Large rep (1x Large + 1x Med II might do the trick), 3x hardeners (depending on rats ofc), 1x cpr, and either a 2nd cpr, a pdu (if u run 2x large reps AND 6x MP II) or a heat sink II. You might need to go for named stuff to fit it all, esp. on the CPU side (LiF AB, Eutectic caps, Malkuth siege, N-type hardeners), and you definitely want to use good named L reps (or tech2 once they become available - and affordable).
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.04.21 10:03:00 - [29] Edited by: Jim Steele on 21/04/2005 10:03:58 Originally by: Razor Jaxx A typical setup : 6x Mega Pulse (II's if you can), 2x Siege AB, 3x cap rechargers 2x Large rep (1x Large + 1x Med II might do the trick), 3x hardeners (depending on rats ofc), 1x cpr, and either a 2nd cpr, a pdu (if u run 2x large reps AND 6x MP II) or a heat sink II. Pretty much my setup actually high 6 Megapulse I's (14 days till large energy turret 5) 1 siege 1 cruise (lacking a bit on cpu, need to train weapons upgrades 5 and ill be sorted) mid 3 Cap Charger II's 1 AB low 2 large accom reps, 2x active hardeners, 3xcpr This does tank really well, and i fight mostly guristas just have a job hitting cruisers and frigs (got motion prediction lvl5 ) and i use radio and MF crystals I think the main issue im having is a range one i need some intermediate crystals that do more damage than radio for a range (of say 40-30k and 30-20k). The Radio crystals do absolutely crap damage since the patch Death to the Galante
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.04.21 10:22:00 - [30] Well then, considering you have a good setup (although i'd say 6x cap recharge mods is overkill - you might wanna trade at least one of those cpr's for a heat sink II), you shouldn't have any problem at all. I usually go from smallest ships to largest. Position yourself at a good sniping range, engage the frigs, and start moving opposite the rats using your AB so as to buy you more sniping time; once you see you're not doing enough damage to the frigs anymore (if they managed to close in on you), finish those with cruise/torps and engage the cruisers with the MP's (and add cruise missiles to the mix once you're done with frigs). Finally, once you've eradicated all cruisers as well, spank your AB to get within short striking distance of the BS. Don't even bother using Radio on them, just tank and AB. Once you're within striking distance, open up with MF, torps (juggs for guristas, banes for angels, etc.) and drones, and lay the big hurt on them. All this moving about might be time-crunching, but it works. Consider packing UV as well for mid-range engagements (or Standard once they become readily available) and cap-saving situations.



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