EVE Search - Ore thiefs punished

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ore thiefs punished

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Capri Guirashi	Posted - 2005.04.11 09:16:00 - [1] Sign this if you want that taking from a named can will bring concord to the rescue. "A barge is mining .. a thief comes to the belt and starts unloading from the can named "15..05" the moment he drops the ore into his cargo hold he get sec hit and concord arrives to punish him " plz sign ""SIGNED"""
Alexi Borizkova	Posted - 2005.04.11 10:14:00 - [2] CCP have made it abundantly clear time and time again they are not goign to really do anythign to combat ore theivery except point at secure cans. Maybe if there was a 10km3 volume secure can that couldn't be anchored it'd be a different story... but nevertheless, Once upon a time CCP never envisioned usign the ultimat warship, the battleship, as a miner, and throwing ore into space for a indy to get, and viewed jetcan mining as an exploit for some time, this philosophy remains and they offer precious little solace to jetcan miners. Personally I would be more than sufficiently pleased with jsut allowing me personally to target them and fire, or a mechanic for the ability to declare "duels" (one man wars) after an offense, such as killing you or destroyign a ship, or yes, even snagging soem ore.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.11 11:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Alexi Borizkova CCP have made it abundantly clear time and time again they are not goign to really do anythign to combat ore theivery except point at secure cans. Maybe if there was a 10km3 volume secure can that couldn't be anchored it'd be a different story... but nevertheless Actually, Oveur has stated in several previous dev-chats that flagging an ore thief to the owner of the can thieved from (as described in the exodus features pages) is an intended feature that is simply waiting (like many other features) for sufficient programmer time to come free to implement it. But they're not going to initiate concordoken against ore thieves. What they want to do is stop concord protecting the thieves as they do now, without making ore theft completely impossible (as concordoken would do).
Trevor Cohen	Posted - 2005.04.11 11:18:00 - [4] As far as the idea of jet can mining being an exploit goes, CCP brought that on themselves by not allowing indies to load up a dozen mining lasers in the first place. Requiring a combat ship, let alone making a battleship the best miner was just silly! Illogical, impractical and insulting to great war machines! I like the flagging idea, a lot. Say... a 3hr flag from the moment of ore theft during which the corp of the aggrieved party is in a "state of war" allowing retribution. Dunno about you but I'd save a mid slot for a webber so you can say "Jet that ore again or I swap out the harvies for ogres!" I say corp rather than individual because most of my ops are corp ops and whoever jetted the can might not be someone with combat skills.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.11 11:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Trevor Cohen I say corp rather than individual because most of my ops are corp ops and whoever jetted the can might not be someone with combat skills. Well, the current CCP thinking is just the owner of the can. But there is a way round that if you want to guard against ore-thieves....you just have a player with combat skills and appropriate fittings drop all the cans, then your corp-mates fill them.
Abishi	Posted - 2005.04.11 12:13:00 - [6] Get a secure can or mine .4 or below then you can take matters into your own hands. They turn up and see an unsecure can and take some ore. Do nothing they leave, go get reequiped and wait for the guy to come back, take care of business and while you are at it pod him. Educational.
Phoenix 777	Posted - 2005.04.11 12:14:00 - [7] Edited by: Phoenix 777 on 11/04/2005 12:15:37 there are a lot solutions and ways of avoiding ore thiefs, if you can startup some processing in your head... --- --- WaKe uP & DreaM oN
Ronin Woman	Posted - 2005.04.11 15:51:00 - [8] Signed Even though I don't believe there is ever going to be a good solution to this problem as long as players can just create another alt & contiue to steal, no amount of security ratings drop or podding schemes is going to stop them. But I would like the satisfaction of popping one or two imho, CCP (at least in part) expected the mining barge to be an answer to this issue. At least with three high volume mining lasers, you fill your hold & have to return to a base quickly as compared to the hour after hour numbness of a single laser trying to fill an industrial. In short your required to DO something instead of read a book or whatever. Who at CCP thought that would be fun gaming I think industrials should have 3 high slots to have at least one gun and a couple of laser mod hardpoints with "rogue miner" ships spawning as high as 0.9 space (reserve 1.0 for noobs to learn & make a few ISK) often enough to require the player to think twice about AFK mining. At least that would provide a workable alternative to unsecure jet can mining above 0.4 and force the hard core thieves into systems where they can be delt with and should be easier to code than several table changes to accomplish no retaliation combat above 0.4 space. Thanks for hearing me out
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.11 15:57:00 - [9] Actually, the 3 minute cycle on the strip miners is quite a heavy penalty on semi-afk miners, through the time lost when a roid pops. Even if you put each laser on a different roid, you will lose, on average, 1.5 minutes of mining time for every roid you pop. And given the high yield of the lasers, that's quite a bit of ore. Players who actually pay attention and manually cycle the lasers as fast as their cap allows will get a significantly higher yield over the course of a mining op than those who go semi-afk with a book, or whatever.
Ronin Woman	Posted - 2005.04.11 16:07:00 - [10] Thats good information Mathew. Thanks I'll have to remember that if I ever get around to buying a barge.
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.11 17:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Ronin Woman I think industrials should have 3 high slots to have at least one gun and a couple of laser mod hardpoints with "rogue miner" ships spawning as high as 0.9 space (reserve 1.0 for noobs to learn & make a few ISK) often enough to require the player to think twice about AFK mining. At least that would provide a workable alternative to unsecure jet can mining above 0.4 and force the hard core thieves into systems where they can be delt with Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Trevor Cohen I say corp rather than individual because most of my ops are corp ops and whoever jetted the can might not be someone with combat skills. Well, the current CCP thinking is just the owner of the can. But there is a way round that if you want to guard against ore-thieves....you just have a player with combat skills and appropriate fittings drop all the cans, then your corp-mates fill them. While your solutions are sufficient for experienced miners, they do nothing for the player who is still in a Bantam or an ibis, a member of a newb corp, and only knows about can mining from other more experienced players in the corp. IT should be made that the entire corp , be it PCorp or NPC corp would have a green light on the offender, as well as any non-corp mate who is in the victims gang. Originally by: Abishi Get a secure can or mine .4 or below then you can take matters into your own hands. They turn up and see an unsecure can and take some ore. Do nothing they leave, go get reequiped and wait for the guy to come back, take care of business and while you are at it pod him. Educational. Let me see you venture out into a .4 space to mine "safely" the first week you are in the game. Let me see you try to damage an Iteron in .4 space with a Bantam. The whole issue is that can raiders dont venture out into space where they can face retaliation, they prefer to stay where Concord protects their crimes. Originally by: Phoenix 777 Edited by: Phoenix 777 on 11/04/2005 12:15:37 there are a lot solutions and ways of avoiding ore thiefs, if you can startup some processing in your head... I really detest your arrogant tone, but I'll keep an open mind and ask you to give an example. Or do your mental processes stop at formulating insults on the forums?
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.13 04:12:00 - [12] Edited by: TjanitN Tcroxlr on 13/04/2005 04:12:47 Originally by: TjanitN Tcroxlr Originally by: Phoenix 777 Edited by: Phoenix 777 on 11/04/2005 12:15:37there are a lot solutions and ways of avoiding ore thiefs,if you can startup some processing in your head... I really detest your arrogant tone, but I'll keep an open mind and ask you to give an example. Or do your mental processes stop at formulating insults on the forums? I really didnt expect a reply, but maybe this thread got pushed off page 1 before you had a chance to read and respond. Please give us an example of your superior skills at mental processing. Please give us one solution that answers every point raised in every post above. How can a new player protect himself from the Boogereaters, the Big Doggy's, the Jurien's, the SA TKPerson's, the ... of the Eve Universe.
Trevor Cohen	Posted - 2005.04.13 04:27:00 - [13] > The whole issue is that can raiders dont venture out into space where they can face retaliation, they prefer to stay where Concord protects their crimes. And in that lies the crux of the matter. CCP have provided many many ILLOGICAL avenues for them to be dirty. eg Stealing from cans and renaming a piece of trit as an apocalypse. Come on, CCP! We don't expect to be watched by our mummies everywhere. We know it's a tough universe. But where there are cops, let them do their job. And while you have a computerised stock market and trade system, let the bloody thing provide some level of protection (IE only let the item name be used, not customer definable). Having to 'inspect merchandies' on every single entry is annoying and stupid. The game is for fun. We pay money to have fun, not get bogged down in tedium so some jerk has a chance of scamming the ignorant or distracted.
TjanitN Tcroxlr	Posted - 2005.04.13 04:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Trevor Cohen > The whole issue is that can raiders dont venture out into space where they can face retaliation, they prefer to stay where Concord protects their crimes. And in that lies the crux of the matter. CCP have provided many many ILLOGICAL avenues for them to be dirty. eg Stealing from cans and renaming a piece of trit as an apocalypse. Come on, CCP! We don't expect to be watched by our mummies everywhere. We know it's a tough universe. But where there are cops, let them do their job. And while you have a computerised stock market and trade system, let the bloody thing provide some level of protection (IE only let the item name be used, not customer definable). Having to 'inspect merchandies' on every single entry is annoying and stupid. The game is for fun. We pay money to have fun, not get bogged down in tedium so some jerk has a chance of scamming the ignorant or distracted. Hear! Hear! Glad to see I am not the only person advocating a justice system which actually metes out justice rather than protecting all manner of injustice.
Cute JapaneseChick	Posted - 2005.04.13 06:40:00 - [15] I hope they do this. I'll grab 1 trit out of your can, then warp to my Apoc in a safespot and then take your ore AND your barge!!
Constance Retribution	Posted - 2005.04.13 08:09:00 - [16] I also agree that Concord has to stop protecting theives. I don't mind if we have to dispense the justice ourselves, in fact I would rather do that. These people don't have the courage to even be real pirates, so you won't catch them in a sector without Uncle Concord to hide behind.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.13 09:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Cute JapaneseChick I hope they do this. I'll grab 1 trit out of your can, then warp to my Apoc in a safespot and then take your ore AND your barge!! And if I've attacked a thief and they warp out, I'm straight into warp too - instajumping back to my station, switching to my ganking battleship, and warping back to meet you
Andrue	Posted - 2005.04.13 14:14:00 - [18] No. The proposed theif flag between theif and can creator is good enough. Concord should not leap in to attack someone that is just taking advantage of someone else' laziness. That needs to be reinforced. Jettisoned material is publicly available and you have to accept the risks in making it publicly available. OTOH it would be nice for the morally wronged player to have a short window in which to vent their frustration and attempt revenge. Think of it as Concord turning a blind eye for short while. I think that the flag should only activate if the item is within range of its owner. This means that you have to be somewhere near to benefit. No leaving of cans in a belt then sitting at the sun waiting for the notification. If you have warped out to haul stuff to a station then the thief can sneak in while you are away without fear of triggering the flag. I'm not clear about the implications wrt gangs. Probably the flag should be awarded to the gang leader (only if they are within range at the time?) and not transferable although its effects apply to everyone in the gang that is in range of the leader whether existing or new members. In effect by being near the gang leader you have the legal right to attack a thief. This means that if you form a gang to go after the naughty person you have to be gang leader. If you were working in a gang and wish to pursue vengance the gang leader needs to part of the raiding party. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.04.13 14:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Cute JapaneseChick I hope they do this. I'll grab 1 trit out of your can, then warp to my Apoc in a safespot and then take your ore AND your barge!! Nope. This has an easy fix - you cannot be the aggressor. The flag gives the owner the right to initiate aggression not both of you. They will chase you, find the Apoc and after spending five minutes orbitting you and hurling insults they will fly back and continue mining. Or dock and have a cry. It remains their choice whether or not to engage you. Once they have engaged you then you have the chance to fight back of course. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.13 14:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Andrue They will chase you, find the Apoc and after spending five minutes orbitting you and hurling insults they will fly back and continue mining. Or dock and have a cry. It remains their choice whether or not to engage you. Once they have engaged you then you have the chance to fight back of course. Well, there is theoretically the possibility of a hole people could use to get round this. If the miner shoots, and the thief manages to get away, how long does the "legitimate defence" flag last? If it's just a simple timer after the last shot, they could probably warp away, switch ships, and warp back before it counted the aggression as over. Of course, it wouldn't be that hard to clear the flag on dock/jump/eject and stop them switching ships.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.04.13 15:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Andrue They will chase you, find the Apoc and after spending five minutes orbitting you and hurling insults they will fly back and continue mining. Or dock and have a cry. It remains their choice whether or not to engage you. Once they have engaged you then you have the chance to fight back of course. Well, there is theoretically the possibility of a hole people could use to get round this. If the miner shoots, and the thief manages to get away, how long does the "legitimate defence" flag last? If it's just a simple timer after the last shot, they could probably warp away, switch ships, and warp back before it counted the aggression as over. Of course, it wouldn't be that hard to clear the flag on dock/jump/eject and stop them switching ships. Hmmm. Two answers to that I suppose: 1.That's the risk you take. Revenge is often not a good idea. If you choose to take that option up you live with the consequences. 2.The flag buff can be withdrawn by the flag owner. Regardless of who has fired at whom the player with the flag can choose to cancel the flag and have all concerned parties returned to Concord enforced neutrality. In effect the theft victim can admit defeat and just cancel the whole revenge idea. All parties must of course get an obvious and non-ignorable notification of this. I don't think that it should be possible to lure the ore theif into aggressing by secretly cancelling the flag. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.13 15:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Andrue 2.The flag buff can be withdrawn by the flag owner. Regardless of who has fired at whom the player with the flag can choose to cancel the flag and have all concerned parties returned to Concord enforced neutrality. In effect the theft victim can admit defeat and just cancel the whole revenge idea. All parties must of course get an obvious and non-ignorable notification of this. I don't think that it should be possible to lure the ore theif into aggressing by secretly cancelling the flag. Only problem with this is missiles, with their non-instant effects. A pop-up saying that the flag is cancelled and not to agress isn't much good when your missiles are already half-way to their target.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.04.13 16:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Andrue 2.The flag buff can be withdrawn by the flag owner. Regardless of who has fired at whom the player with the flag can choose to cancel the flag and have all concerned parties returned to Concord enforced neutrality. In effect the theft victim can admit defeat and just cancel the whole revenge idea. All parties must of course get an obvious and non-ignorable notification of this. I don't think that it should be possible to lure the ore theif into aggressing by secretly cancelling the flag. Only problem with this is missiles, with their non-instant effects. A pop-up saying that the flag is cancelled and not to agress isn't much good when your missiles are already half-way to their target. Good point. It depends on how aggression is detected I suppose. Is it detected when you fire a weapon or when the damage is done? What happens now if you launch a missile then the target warps away? Does the launcher end up having a brief chat with Concord? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.13 16:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Andrue Good point. It depends on how aggression is detected I suppose. Is it detected when you fire a weapon or when the damage is done? What happens now if you launch a missile then the target warps away? Does the launcher end up having a brief chat with Concord? Good question. Unfortunately I don't have any disposable alts with missile skills to test it with. I suspect that damage might be the trigger though, based on the effects of smartbombs - i.e. you can activate a smartbomb without concord coming after you, but if it damages anything, you're toast. Though they might have put a seperate trigger specifically on turret/launcher activations as well I suppose.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.13 17:51:00 - [25] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 13/04/2005 17:53:03 Originally by: Andrue 2.The flag buff can be withdrawn by the flag owner. Regardless of who has fired at whom the player with the flag can choose to cancel the flag and have all concerned parties returned to Concord enforced neutrality. In effect the theft victim can admit defeat and just cancel the whole revenge idea. Holy abusable game mechanics, batman! Originally by: Capri Guirashi Sign this if you want that taking from a named can will bring concord to the rescue. "A barge is mining .. a thief comes to the belt and starts unloading from the can named "15..05" the moment he drops the ore into his cargo hold he get sec hit and concord arrives to punish him " plz sign ""SIGNED""" If you cant even be bothered to be capable of defending your own assets that you just throw into space, dont beg the NPCs to do it for you. In fact, EVE doesnt sound like the game for you. Try Tetris, but beware the ebil gr33fing Z blocks. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.04.13 22:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Andrue on 13/04/2005 22:07:42 Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 13/04/2005 17:53:03 Originally by: Andrue 2.The flag buff can be withdrawn by the flag owner. Regardless of who has fired at whom the player with the flag can choose to cancel the flag and have all concerned parties returned to Concord enforced neutrality. In effect the theft victim can admit defeat and just cancel the whole revenge idea. Holy abusable game mechanics, batman! How is that abusable? All that happens is that the miner is distracted away from mining for ten minutes, gets overexcited then is betrayed as the coward he really is. The thief has a laugh, gets some practice in on his smack talk then goes after another victim. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Xevion	Posted - 2005.04.14 04:21:00 - [27] Look, I am going to make this as simple as possible. JET CANS WERE NOT MEANT TO BE USED AS MINING TOOLS Im surpised CCP didnt take it as an exploit when people first started doing it. Due to the fact that that is not their intended use, ccp is not going to do ANYTHING to enforce punishing theives. If its that big of a deal to you, have a friend in an indy with you, or mine into secure cans and deal with it.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.14 08:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Xevion Due to the fact that that is not their intended use, ccp is not going to do ANYTHING to enforce punishing theives. If its that big of a deal to you, have a friend in an indy with you, or mine into secure cans and deal with it. /emote points to Exodus features page, and a recent dev chat. That pretty much looks like they're going to do something, and that CCP have accepted that jet-can mining is a de-facto part of the game. Do try and keep up with developments
Phoenix 777	Posted - 2005.04.14 08:29:00 - [29] sissys get real, if you dont have enough brain to avoid ore thiefs, i suggest you get out of this game.... cause its too dificult for your mental abilities.... i dont like ore thiefs either... i just know that that you must be really dumb and limited minded if you cant avoid them, cause i sure can..... --- --- WaKe uP & DreaM oN
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.14 08:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Phoenix 777 i dont like ore thiefs either... i just know that that you must be really dumb and limited minded if you cant avoid them, cause i sure can..... This is not about avoiding ore thieves. I am fully aware of how to avoid them, and for the most part succeed in doing so. It's about the police protecting the people they should be acting against. Tell me, you go out at night, and get mugged in an alley. Would it have been cleverer not to go down a dark alley at night? Probably. But how would you feel if the police turned round to you and said - sorry, not going to arrest the guy, you should have made more effort to avoid getting mugged. Consider your car, as another example. Sure, it's more sensible to lock your car, park in supervised car-parks, lock your car in your garage etc. But even if you leave your car unlocked, by the side of the road, in a known crime hotspot, stealing your car is still just as much of a crime. Were you stupid? Yes. Does your stupidity justify the crime? No

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.