CCP adds new ships and modules to give more options for people to utilize. Idiot complains that they are taking away the sandbox aspect. Newsflash buddy, noone says you can't fit blasters to the mining frigate and surprise the hell out of someone.

What exactly is being dumbed down? The mining frigate is being added, since racial mining bonused frigates are being removed with the tiericide, so a new dedicated ship was needed. All part of tiericide, that had made previously useless ships competitive. Salvage drones are adding more drone options and alternatives to fitting a salvager. You know adding more viable options available to the players. The opposite of dumbing down.

Freghters on the other hand are like big shuttles and always have been. It would be nice if CCP made them regular ships with some fitting choices, but they aren't being changed, so they can't therefore be dumbed down either.

Makes me wonder what you think about the mining drones.

Also as I said before, freighters have been in game for over 7 years and work just fine.

Only if said ship is broken.

Freighters are working just fine.

Complains about no sandbox.
Lives in highsec.

I do not want my freighetr to be nerfed in both EHP and Cargo space because you (and only you and a minority of others) think it should get fitting slots to fill the role it already fills. If you want something more tanky use the deep space transports. If you want something fast use a blocade runner. If you want something not quite as big as the freighter but bigger than the subcap haulers use the orca.

Well just look at that, we do have options. How sandboxy.

Said mining frigate is filling several roles and thus, needs fitting options.



Who was the fool who put 20 billion into the hold?

Wow, troll-a-thon in high gear today. Think I might have saw one halfway intelligent counter argument buried in all the pixelated defecation. So I'm going to break ranks and actually discuss the OP instead of just being another cyberturd in the punchbowl.

Mining frigates are useful in the same context as mining cruisers. It gives a stepping ladder for miners to start with, before moving to cruisers and finally into barges. It seems like a good idea but you are correct in pointing out that this generally goes against the idea of "tieracide" - which oddly enough still applied to actual barges (now each has a dedicated role) but not to mining frigates or cruisers. So I can see why someone would find that to be a step backward, because unless the mining frigates and cruisers had some specific niche to occupy other than their size, that indeed does sound like going back to tier-based thinking. Maybe CCP should liven it up a bit and expand upon their roles more? After all, the barges got rebuilt to be more than linear tiers - they have specific jobs. What's so special about one mining frigate/cruiser over another?

As for freighters, many people (myself included) have complained about the lack of fittings as well. It is generally well known that with industrial transports, pilots must chose between more cargo or more protection, and this fits well with EvE's general philosophy of risk vs reward. Freighters do not have that option, and options are what keeps EvE vibrant. When freighters run into problems (gankers, bumping, whatever) they have no options on how to deal with it. They can't decide to trade cargo for tank or vice versa. Yet they get blamed when "foolish behavior" gets them killed? How does one blame someone else for something they have no say in? So yes, freighters need fittings, just like everything else. It's overdue. Some may say that freighters are working fine. Really? Have you asked the freighter captains that, or are we just asking the people who prey on them? I'll go with what the freighter captains have to say first, thank you.

It would amaze me that people would ever vote against having more options in EvE, but then I realize that there are people who are simply reflexively conditioned to troll any idea that isn't their own without any conscious though required. One does not expect poetry from an insect.

AKA a nerf to my cargo.

Freighters cannot be allowed to have a cargo hold of 1 million m3. This means that any lowslots or rig slots muct be acompanied by a nerf to the cargo to accomadate the use of cargo expanders.

Because then they'd be able to bring capships into highsec.

Because they have no place there unless they, too, got nerfed into uselessness (or unless all of highsec was turned into low or nullsec).

Because they are far too powerful for highsec.

Who and to what questions?

No, it's not. It's the crucial limiting factor that ensures that any kind of fitting options for freighters will mean that they will see significant nerfs to their defining characteristic: their massive cargo holds.

Yes, it's possible: by nerfing them, meaning that your supposed improvement only ever makes the ships worse at what they're supposed to be good at.

Freighters don't need customisation. They come pre-optimised and does everything they're supposed to do exceedingly well. If you want options, you already have them in the form of the seven other freighters, the eight transport ships, the industrial command ship, and the fourteen industrial ships. So why are freighters in such desperate need of a nerf when it wouldn't solve anything or address any kind of issue?

Why do they?

Other ships have fitting options, so they can fill their role and without those options they couldn't function. This cannot be said for freighters, which fill their role very well without fitting options. So again, why do they need them?

Faster align times can be gained from being with corp mates in gangs.
Fitting options for faster warp speeds, means allowing rigs which would break balance. (Other options exist already for this without rig slots)

There are 29 ships that are classed as haulers in EVE each with their own roles and abilities. We have plenty of choice.

Now you are just being stupid.

Being against complexity for the sake of complexity does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against worthless items that only get used for laughs, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against ignoring old content that is broken in favor of only something new just because it's new, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

This thread is bad, and the OP should feel ashamed of itself.

Since when does "sandbox" imply "every ship is a Swiss army knife"?

Oh wait, we have lasers that shoot people and lasers that shoot spacerocks. That's not sandboxy enough, let's just have one type of laser that everybody can use to shoot at anything they desire. Why should we have to choose one or the other, it's a sandbox.

How about trying out the 'mulitplayer' part of MMO. You're suppost to work together with other players to protect your freighter.

and of course carry less in your hold !

Lets try this again.

If you give the freighter slots then we will end up with a worse ship doing the same job. It will have to take cargo nerf which means I will now have to make twice as many trips as before or fit cargo expanders and carry less isk worth of stuff due to the tanking penalty of the cargo mods meaning, twice as many trips as before. There is nothing to be gained from adding slots to freighters for freighter pilots other than a nerf.

A fact that seems to be very much overlooked in this strange discussion about the value of adding module slots to freighters is that the very fact that they do not have any forces you to think outside the box.

The fact that you cannot alter the stats of your ship means that you will need to adapt your strategy rather than your fit to meet a given situation. Yes, taking away the ability to fit your ship means that is is essentially easier to understand, but by no means does it simplify the task for which it is designed.

It is not an ideal approach for every ship, but because each freighter is so heavily specialized it works for this particular class of ship.

To keep the cargo you will need cargo mods which reduces the tank.

To keep the tank you would need to have reduced cargo.

Your idea will mean freighters cannot be the same as today. Its a nerf as there are no benefits for the freighter pilot.

This should be good. Name them.

So in short, there isnt.

So you are going to give freighter pilots a worse ship in order to fix what exactly? It cant be choice seeing how we have 29 dedicated ships to chose from.

So you want to nerf a set of ships which are working perfectly fine for no good reason.

A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.

So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason.

Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs.

Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse.
Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now GÇö worse.
Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse.

This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed GÇö massively GÇö if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless.

You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason.

Except people won't utilise it better as it already performs it's role as a large scale hauler perfectly. You can try & make it sound however you want, but we all know that this subject is only being brought up because people are losing freighters in highsec. You want to be able to fit a larger tank on them which ultimately won't do a thing against freighter ganking because freighter pilots make themselves profitable targets regardless.

The fact that I would have to do two trips for every one I do now no matter how I fit it.

Therefore making the change entirely pointless as people would do this anyway. What possible other uses for a giant cargohold with an engine attached can you possibly think of?

Only with your idea it would be around 750 to 800 mil if we want to transport as much as we do now. Where exactly is the benefit in this for freighter pilots?

A worse ship is not adding versatility and no, you could not make it exactly the same as today. We already have a choice of 29 ships.