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CCP No longer adding sandbox?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 12:47:00 - [1] - Quote Souisa wrote: Not if you look at all the other ships bar the shuttle, which have fitting options. Other ships' ability to fit stuff does in no way change the fact that freighters are fine, nor does the lack of fitting options on freighters make them any less sandbox:y. Quote: However i noticed they added +2 warp core strength on the mining frigate which i disagree with. Arent you suppose to fit this yourself? No, you're not. You're supposed to look at the ship, see what it can do, and then either fit it with stuff that makes it suited for the task at hand or decide that it will not fit that task regardless and pick a different ship. The ships are tools that you choose to use to shape your sandbox experience. They are not the sandbox GÇö your choices are. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 12:51:00 - [2] - Quote Souisa wrote: Why cant they have this cargo size? Because then they'd be able to bring capships into highsec. Quote: And even if the freighters had slightly less stock cargo space, what would the problem be. The problem is that you have nerfed them for no good reason. They are already optimised for the task at hand and can only be made worse by adding fitting options. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 12:54:00 - [3] - Quote Souisa wrote: Why cant they enter high sec btw. Because they have no place there unless they, too, got nerfed into uselessness (or unless all of highsec was turned into low or nullsec). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 13:00:00 - [4] - Quote Souisa wrote: You mean CONCORD are too weak, or? No. Player ships are too weak. How (and when) do you cost-effectively suicide-gank a carrier before CONCORD shows up and before it simply jumps away? Oh, and here's a tip: if you don't know these things, you have just disqualified yourself from suggesting things that affect the balance of the game because you are woefully blind to the big picture; if you do know these things, stop playing stupid. The five-year-old routine is cute when you're five years old. Around here, it's trolling, so go read the wiki instead. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 13:17:00 - [5] - Quote Souisa wrote: Well i guess those people dont have the answers anyway Who and to what questions? Quote: Besides its irrelevant to the subject at hand, wether or not capitals can exist in highsec. No, it's not. It's the crucial limiting factor that ensures that any kind of fitting options for freighters will mean that they will see significant nerfs to their defining characteristic: their massive cargo holds. Quote: I think freighters lack customization, and even if freighters were never supposed to reach 1 million m3 cargo space it should be possible to balance them in this way even with fitting slots Yes, it's possible: by nerfing them, meaning that your supposed improvement only ever makes the ships worse at what they're supposed to be good at. Freighters don't need customisation. They come pre-optimised and does everything they're supposed to do exceedingly well. If you want options, you already have them in the form of the seven other freighters, the eight transport ships, the industrial command ship, and the fourteen industrial ships. So why are freighters in such desperate need of a nerf when it wouldn't solve anything or address any kind of issue? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 13:23:00 - [6] - Quote Souisa wrote: The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. No, it's a sign of my understanding how the ships are balanced and their role in the game GÇö two rather important things that you seem to lack. You also seem to be confused about this entire GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ concept since what you're asking for has nothing to do with the sandbox and everything to do with turning buckets into spades for no clear reason. You are asking for severe nerfs to an entire category of ships to solveGÇª what, exactly? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10293	Posted - 2012.11.11 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote Gixxer 1000 wrote: Don't let this guy fool ya About what? He is 100% correct about what would have to happen and why it would be a bad thing. Do you honestly believe that freighter pilots in general want their ships to carry less stuff or become even weaker than they are now? Because those are the only two options if they were given lowslots. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10294	Posted - 2012.11.11 15:50:00 - [8] - Quote Souisa wrote: Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. Why do they need fitting options? Why they don't have them has already been explained: because it would make them worse. Quote: And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about Compelling argument. How would you give them access to cargo expanders and still ensuring that they can't get more cargo space than the current maximums without reducing their base cargo holds (by ~22% per lowslot)? If the answer is GÇ£disallow expandersGÇ¥ then why not just give them flat HP increases, since that's obviously what you're after? If all you're after is a sturdier ship, what's wrong with the existing options? In short, what problem are you trying to solve and how does the addition of slots solve that problem without making the ships worse? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10294	Posted - 2012.11.11 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote Souisa wrote: To make it a more enjoyable ship, more 'sandbox', to give players choice. How does making it a less capable ship make it more enjoyable? You already have plenty of choice. Quote: Are you saying this is a bad thing? Yes. Making a ship worse for no reason is indeed a bad thing, and until you can explain the actual benefit of doing this (no, GÇ£more choiceGÇ¥ does not benefit the ship since you can only choose between two worse options) you have failed to present anything even remotely resembling a reason. Quote: Faster align times, faster warp times, there should be more options for the risk takers These options already exist, and they exist without making the ship worse. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10294	Posted - 2012.11.11 17:10:00 - [10] - Quote Souisa wrote: Sometimes freighters fly empty and they dont need 200k EHP or a gang or alt to baby sit them GÇªnor do they need faster align times or warp speeds at that point. And anyway, if you need those faster speeds, there are a numerous options available. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10294	Posted - 2012.11.11 19:00:00 - [11] - Quote Souisa wrote: Yet some of them have fitting slots. Why is this? Because they are not specialised to push a specific task as far as it will go. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10308	Posted - 2012.11.13 13:28:00 - [12] - Quote Souisa wrote: Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf Too bad it doesn't make them any more versatile GÇö it only makes them worse at what they're supposed to do. If all you're after is more HP and less cargo, then might I suggest a Jump Freighter or an Orca? If all you're after is faster warping, again at the cost of cargo space, then might I suggest the same? If all you're after is more cargo, then you can't have it because it would break the 1M m-¦ limit GÇö the Freighter is already your ship of choice. The versatility you're asking for is already in the game. You just refuse to choose. Instead, you are asking for a nerf to a ship that is already perfectly suited for its role for absolutely no sane reason whatsoever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10308	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:32:00 - [13] - Quote Souisa wrote: Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason. Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs. Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse. Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now GÇö worse. Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now GÇö worse. This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed GÇö massively GÇö if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless. You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10317	Posted - 2012.11.13 17:23:00 - [14] - Quote Souisa wrote: The versatility, i feel like ive covered this, as well as you can make your freighter excactly as it is today No, you can't do the same things. This is the thing you keep ignoring. You can do less. This means versatility is reduced. This reduction is inevitable due to the balancing constraints that would have to be adhered to. You are suggesting a massive nerf of an entire line of ships for no reason. Why does this nerf need to happen (and no, versatility does not answer that question since versatility = nerf GÇö you'd only be begging the question and not provide a proper answer). Try hard to think of a reason why you want freighters to be nerfed, please, and explain it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10317	Posted - 2012.11.13 17:26:00 - [15] - Quote Souisa wrote: How is it going to be worse? This has been explained to you on every single page of this thread. Reported for trolling. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.

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