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A tale of an owner of a very expensive t2 bpo

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Tapulao	Posted - 2005.04.16 08:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Tapulao on 16/04/2005 08:26:01 Ok, since the flamefest has hit my own selling thread (at this thread ), I will try to make some pointers on the subject as to keep my thread clean and inform ppl of why I make my choices. My corp owns the t2 xlarge shield booster and as of today we started selling it. We tried to scout the market and try to find a reasonable price to sell it. So after taking a few opinions from ppl that thought the module didn't exist, we started at 50mil. 10 secods after offering the module in yulai for 50m, it was bought. Ok, we sold it for too few, since the guy suspiciously wanted loads more. So we went to 70mil. Again the new offer sold within 30 secs in this time, again buyer wanted many more. Ok, we up price again. 100m, sells into a waiting buyer who also buys the next one without question at 150m within secs. So, we're happy ppl. but wait! 10 minutes later we spot 3 of our sales on escrow on different regions for no more or less than 250 and 300mil EACH. As it turns out, the module can easily go for those prices atm, since we've been selling them through the night at 200m minutes after exiting the factory. So sit down and think about it. The demand of the module and the very short supply of it (we are the only owners in the market atm) makes it highly sought after and rich ppl willing to part 200m for it. I ask you now, I don understand than 50 and 60mils are more than reasonable prices for such an item (even rip-offs in production cost aspect), but should we hand out an item to someone at 50m and then he goes to resell it for 200? Should we let a 200m valued item go for 50? why? We tried to be naga in the place of naga in the start and we were had like simple fools. Sure, the prices will gradually fall, to what level I don't know. You can be sure that we will never let our shields stack in hangar or make all our sell orders dissapear before we can put some new on. That point is what we will keep, since that guarantees that we don't simply hand out billions of isks to people that can see the modules real value at any given time. So please people, look it from our perspective: Do you foolishly share part of your profit with some random guy because he affords the trick, or do you keep the isk for your self. And on a related reply on my sell thread: Yes, when there are new bpo's out, we will gladly drop our prices according to the aforementioned rule. The new supply will drop the prices and that will be the end of it. Till then though, only people with rich enough habits will be able to use them because we can't be otherwise. The so called "free market" demands it to be that way.
Altaireus	Posted - 2005.04.16 08:46:00 - [2] Edited by: Altaireus on 16/04/2005 08:47:07 Your BPO, your money. Why should someone else be able to take advantage of it, just because you dont have the heart to? When all BPOs are seeded and they start to drop in price, you will kick yourself for not making a fortune on it when you could.
Gungankllr	Posted - 2005.04.16 09:33:00 - [3] Run off as many BPC's as you can stomach, then use 'em all for production. Build yourself about 1000 modules, and sell them for 25-30 mill. Seeing as how an XL CL-5 sells for about 15 mill, I think that's a fair price. People reselling will always be an issue. The only way to get around it is to sell directly to players, and not put them up in bunches on market. Don't sell them in bunches to players, as they will likely be resold. At least if you do it that way the people that are actually going to use them will be able to get a hold of them. May work, may not... but at least nobody will say you're gouging people. www.hadean.org
Gungankllr	Posted - 2005.04.16 09:33:00 - [4] Edited by: Gungankllr on 16/04/2005 09:33:10 Double post www.hadean.org
Tapulao	Posted - 2005.04.16 09:53:00 - [5] gunga, your points are very valid. This is the approach of the mighty naga afaik. These guys do make the sales from the people to the people, no wonder they are adored. But they keep an overly complex system to avoid resellers and pass the profit lost vs market value to strictly the buyers via a complex system. Throught their complex sales system (and administrative nightmare) they manage to get a single item to a single person, no more. I suspect though that that person will still make the resale sometimes. Anyway, I could possibly try to make such a complex system, but to what end? Make my life 100 times harder so I can just spare some isk to the end buyers?
zincol	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:03:00 - [6] Hold them back mass produce and flood the market with them that should slow the resellin down a bit,just an idea but n1 on gettin the bpo. hope ya enjoy it
4 LOM	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:38:00 - [7] if people are willing to pay 200mill let them pay that just produce them and place them on the market as fast as you can for whatever they are selling for to keep your stockes at as close to 0 as possible, i have no issues with you selling them for what people will pay for them, if you start stockpiling them or slowing production the increas ther rareity and demand then you **** me off, but if people are gona pay 200M take there 200M from them.
Mirian Blake	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:54:00 - [8] yeah .. milk the market. I won't mind.
Lord Byron	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:42:00 - [9] You¦re doing the right thing Tapu. Maybe i shouldn¦t have said that, but from my own experience i know that people will allways try to exploit your price politics. We might have found a way to avoid exploitation , at least to 99%, but as allready said, it¦s not easy if you don¦t want to spend a good part of your playtime with sales related issues. If some people out there are willing to pay hundreds of millions for such a product - why hold them back! Now¦s the time to make a really solid profit with that print, and after that.... well, you know where we have our HQ N.A.G.A Corp \| NeoCom Site Lord Byron - Burnt Head Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares
Atandros	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:52:00 - [10] IMO you should keep the price as high as the market will bear; the blueprint is yours and you're producing the items for nobody's gain but your own. If people can afford them, good for them (and it's in your interest for them to be able to afford it, after all; hence I say "as high as the market will bear"), but only you have the right to choose what to do with the BP and the items you produce.

magickangaroo	Posted - 2005.04.16 21:22:00 - [11] dude, look after urself and look after your corp. make as much isk as u can and after all the uber rich nutters/empire agent runnin carebears have bought up lower the price to one that normal people can use. but yeah dont stress, make some isk and be happy as im sure teh people payin the ott price are atm to have one of the mods
Rthor	Posted - 2005.04.16 23:12:00 - [12] Dont stress out. If you do worry about your reputation (some people will always hate you as long as you do anything) sell through an untraceable alt.
CamMan	Posted - 2005.04.17 02:44:00 - [13] Tapulao, It is good that you shown concern at the ridiculous price of these mods. However the only thing you can do is follow market demand. If someone is payign 200 mill then sell it for that, as if you dont then you are only making some other parasite rich. Why dont you sell them at 200 mill this week, then 180 mill the next week and so on. Eventually they will drop in price especially when other BPO start popping up. When i first saw the price i was astounded but after thinking about it, you can only sell it for what people are willing to pay. So go ahead make you isk, and if you feel guilty about it then start some sort of be nice to n00bs charity fund or something. Cheers CamMan
Aliksr	Posted - 2005.04.17 04:29:00 - [14] Oh for christ's sake it's not gouging if people are willing to pay it! Better to place them at the market clearing price so that the guy who's willing to pay a lot gets first dibs than stack up a waiting list and use pure luck of timing to be the deciding factor. That's why capitalism is more fair than communism. If you're willing to pay, you get it first, over the people with the connections or the good luck to get their 'dibs' in before you.
Tahreem	Posted - 2005.04.17 06:43:00 - [15] Edited by: Tahreem on 17/04/2005 06:46:12 i think same happened with t2 cap rechargers.. Price went up because lot of ********s are reselling at ridiculous prices.. don't get me wrong reselling for a 10 to 15 even 20% surplus is "acceptable" Some nag that the MAIN suppliers are setting their prices to high but that's all to be thanked to those tards reselling at utmost ridiculous prices.. So in some way i can understand you sell much higher now.. You did the work for the bpo and i wouldn't like eather that people are earning LOADS of money on the back of my hard work.. good thing to counter this is also to make a lot of advertisement... and work with direct orders maybe... flooding market with a friggin amount of modules Honesty is far away in RL (in this game aswell) most of the time ! ------- Co-ceo
Aikudos En'Fellamen	Posted - 2005.04.17 07:32:00 - [16] Resellers are a pain, I know all about it. Just sell them at the price you find is reasonable for now. Suply and demand my friend, and since you're the only supplier, you can do whatever you want. People will always flame you for high prices, but what it really comes down to, is if they got this bpo themselves, they would do the exact same thing. Simple as that. Why should you sell them at 50m, when it's just bought by a reseller, and sold a 300m? You shouldn't. ___________________________________________ Aikudos En'Fellamen
Sir Tidus	Posted - 2005.04.17 07:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Sir Tidus on 17/04/2005 07:53:34 Getting the word out is the key to stop these resellers selling for 5-6 times what you sell. Like everyone said, build a few hundred units or even more while you advertise your back side off then flood the markets at your price, get as many people to hear your advertisements that they'll know you sell for 50 mill, rather than buying one for 300 mill off escrow. If you can get 100 for sale in every region in empire and resellers brought them all they would be trying to resell over 1000 of them and battling each other for prices, that would force their resell price down too. And while they are battling to sell the ones theyve brought, you stick more up on the markets. If you keep a constant supply on the market at 50 mill, or maybe in several markets, many resellers can screw themselves over if no one ever buys them cause they know yours are always for sale at 50m. Thats my 2 isk.
WhiteSnake	Posted - 2005.04.17 09:14:00 - [18] Since I know this guy, he did the right thing alright, he tried to place a reasonable price. If someones wants to flame this, he should try to flame the resellers. We all know how market works, so give him a break, and let him do what he knows best. Believe me he is a top guy in market orders. Tapulao, go ahead and become rich, you and your corp deserve it.
Shirei	Posted - 2005.04.17 10:19:00 - [19] Edited by: Shirei on 17/04/2005 10:20:09 Don't worry about whiners.. Just sell your modules at the maximum price that allows you to sell them as fast as you can produce them. That price, and no other price.. is the price that matches supply and demand and hence the true market value.
Nuclear Baggins	Posted - 2005.04.17 17:35:00 - [20] hey man your BPO do what you like with it if people buy them at 100mil then sell them for that why not after all this is a game and the quicker you can make isk the less time you need to do doing it. Max profit all the way mate.

jbob2000	Posted - 2005.04.18 00:01:00 - [21] If you keep your price at 50mil, people will begin buying from you and not the 200mil people. I say stockpile a load of these modules, then sell them for 50mil across different regions. I would also suggest making an unlimited run copy of the bp so you can produce twice the amount. ----------------------------------------------- CANADIAN
dimensionZ	Posted - 2005.04.18 00:32:00 - [22] Originally by: jbob2000 If you keep your price at 50mil, people will begin buying from you and not the 200mil people. I say stockpile a load of these modules, then sell them for 50mil across different regions. I would also suggest making an unlimited run copy of the bp so you can produce twice the amount. Unlimited run copy ? Are we pre-castor AGAIN ?
Heikki	Posted - 2005.04.18 07:26:00 - [23] Wonder why so many people suggesting to stockpile the item, or in other words suggesting to 'not letting anyone else use the item while you hoard it'. Which does sound a bit evil. If you want to do the 'right thing', just sell all the items at highest prices you get from them. Once you can't sell everything you produce (like when you get competition at cheaper prices), just lower your prices, instead of trying to have explicit or implicit price cartel. -Lasse
Tapulao	Posted - 2005.04.18 12:18:00 - [24] I would never dare to try _any_ tricks on this item or the market. It is bad business and a many times proven malpractice. As long as we sell at the rate of production prices remain stable. We already repriced downwards when stashing anything more than 5 items and we are currently at 90mil and things look more than good. I have to say that by paying close attention to the market and listening to what people have to say, we managed to minimize (if not eliminate) any attempts of profiteering by resales (ofc, we are always open to contractual resellers).
Barak Gideon	Posted - 2005.04.20 14:10:00 - [25] how about starting to sell for 150 mill, and when they are bought flood the market with lower priced products. that way the reseller loses money.
Harisdrop	Posted - 2005.04.20 16:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Barak Gideon how about starting to sell for 150 mill, and when they are bought flood the market with lower priced products. that way the reseller loses money. Caldari are evil. I like it! -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.04.20 18:56:00 - [27] To the thread Author: Sell your goods for what the Market will pay. If you sell for less, other folks will buy and then re-sell at a higher price, as was happening with the first few you sold. It is your BPO, so its your isk. The first few weeks/months of when a new BPO hits the game is when the best profit can be made, so make YOUR profit.
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2005.04.21 03:44:00 - [28] You're doing the right thing so long as you sell these things as fast as you can make 'em. You're not being greedy unless you hold them back to keep them rare. I've been in the same position with rare items a few times, not know the price, selling for something fair (to my mind) and watching them bought up and re-sold for crazy prices by greedy (and rich) ppl. Better for you to keep the initial windfall for yourself for the moment. Congrats on your luck. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
meowcat	Posted - 2005.04.21 16:55:00 - [29] there isn't a single person who subscribes to this game that wouldn't cream the market for all it's worth, if they were in your position. get what you can before the other BPOs come out and the bubble bursts ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
WhiteTiger	Posted - 2005.04.21 18:50:00 - [30] I would suggest you just sell for the whatever the current market price is. If you want to sell cheaper and watch people resell your stuff that is fine or have a mile long waiting list with people complaining about the wait that is fine too. Your bpo and your choice. I would also ignore many of the comments since they don't appear to have a clue on how tech2 production works compared to tech1. In general making bpc of tech2 stuff REDUCES the amount produced. There might be a few that didn't get setup this way, so you can always put in the lab and check, but normally this is a dumb idea for a high demand items since copying normally reduces the amount produced by a large margin. Keep in mind that if in fact you are currently the only one producing these, when the next guy starts production the supply will double. Although you are likely to always have a good market for these I doubt the 200mil price will hold up when more bps come out. Hoarding them so you can sell them all for a cheap price doesn't seem to make that much sense to me. Hardcore resellers won't blink at buying up a couple billion isk worth if they can almost instantly double their isk. If you want to give the bp some time in the lab you might consider PE research, since now it can reduce the production time by up to 20%. After that most likely the best thing you can do to keep the price low is keep the bpo in the factory 100% of time. Would you mind disclosing what the build time is on these items?



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