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Why does the Brutix suck?

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ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:31:00 - [1] It has the same slot layout as the Ferox but with mids and lows reversed. Has the same number of highslots, more grid but less CPU. I shield tank my Ferox and still have quite a bit of CPU left over.. I could easily fit 2 more guns if it wasn't for my powergrid. I don't understand the armor repair bonus, personally I think it's crap and the Brutix should get a tracking bonus.. but this is against our shield hardening bonus which isn't THAT great (sure it's good, but shouldn't make that much of a difference?) 7 200mm rails is 1260 grid, I have 1270grid on my Ferox with 2 PDU2s.. 1 PDU2 and you could fit 7, or 2 and you could fit 7 plus some decent shield/armor tanking. i'm just curious.. i tried flying one but I couldn't even make a Thorax work against a Moa so it's my fault and not the ship's. Brutix looks like a crappy blaster ship (too slow, not enough grid for an MWD) but would be nice for a rail platform. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:36:00 - [2] major problem with brutix is a not that great cap, allied with a small lacking in grid (should have 100 more pg) and cpu (also should have 50 more cpu) ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:41:00 - [3] gl using 200mm's on ferox ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:41:00 - [4] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 17/04/2005 19:42:00 A boost bonus which requires you to use large amounts of cap on a ship with comparatively miserable cap is nowhere near as good as a resistance bonus which takes no cap and is always active. If you take 1000 damage in 10 seconds, the resistance bonus decreases 200 of it. The boost bonus allows you to regain an extra 60 of it. The resistance bonus requires no cap expended on your part. The boost bonus doesnt even exist without cap. Note the difference? Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Question2	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:42:00 - [5] The reasons why the brutix sucks : -Its a normal gallente ship.Normal gallente ship are gimped.They are out-damaged by amaar shisp with ease,and out-tanked by amaar ships with ease,and cant normally shield tank(fastest shield recharge rate does not do **** unless you are passive shield tanking in a dominix or such) -Armor rep bonus is a JOKE.There is no other way to describe it. -A prophecy is -still- easier to fit compared to a brutix. -1000 m3 drone bay compared to normal 500 m3 dorne bay doesnt do much.Thats what..2 more heavy drones?Really gonna rip up NPCs or player ships in the blink of an eye.Then theres the problem of being able to USE heavy drones.Drone level 5 for christ sake.And its not per/will like combat skills are either,so your standard combat character is going to take about 2 weeks or so just to get to heavy drones from scratch.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:45:00 - [6] I agree maybe 100 more PG. You guys get an armor tanking bonus but you would need at least 2 PDUs in the lows to fit decent guns, this isn't right, so I guess I can see why the Brutix might be considered worse then the Ferox. We get an advantage because we use our secondary slots to help with fitting, you have to rely on your tanking slots. The cap is no worse then a Ferox and I think we would use more cap with our shield boosting. I know the cap is the Ferox's main weakness, is it possible it's this way for all battlecruisers though? CCP needs to add a grid/cpu addition module for med slots for armor tanking ships. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:47:00 - [7] 1) i fly Ferox and Cyclone, and I dont find 5% _shield_ boost bonus being a joke. In fact I prefer Cyclone over Ferox. 2) Did it ever occur to any of you that BC doesnt spell uber gank _and_ tank? If mr. ErrorS likes to compare to rails so much, then why wouldnt he fit them on Brutix? ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:48:00 - [8] Edited by: ErrorS on 17/04/2005 19:55:58 Originally by: JoeSomebody gl using 200mm's on ferox 7 200mms > 5 250mms .. the launcher slots are secondary, i would kill to be able to fit 2 200mm rails in their place. though it's not easy fitting 200mms on a Brutix. Either tank OR fit decent guns, that's not what a battlecruiser should be about. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Akaviri	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:52:00 - [9] Well I think the cpu is a little too tight on the Brutix, it's got 3 more slots than a Thorax and only 25 more base cpu. It should be short on cpu, but not that short. Hybrids tend to use alot of cpu and so do midslot items. ````````````` _ \|\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____\| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny!
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:52:00 - [10] im not going to read you a lecture why 200mm's (nor dual 150, dual 250 or 350mms') are not acceptable on caldari ships. If you sure in your math, then go ahead and use 200mm rails on brutix. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."

ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:53:00 - [11] oh wow, cyclone looks like A LOT of fun. Looks like it bests the Ferox in every respect except for the 4 med slots. and why in the hell does the Brutix have less CPU then the Prophecy? I thought.. Minmatar/Gallente - Averaged CPU/PG Caldari - Low PG high CPU Amarr - High PG low CPU ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 19:55:00 - [12] Originally by: JoeSomebody im not going to read you a lecture why 200mm's (nor dual 150, dual 250 or 350mms') are not acceptable on caldari ships. If you sure in your math, then go ahead and use 200mm rails on brutix. are you talking to me? If you are, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.. i wouldn't fit 200MMs on a Caldari ship.. Ferox is a long range ship, the 200mms in place of heavy launchers would be for anti-frigate or to help out with the ships I can't hit at close range. They would effectively take the place of Heavy Launchers on my Ferox for the same exact job.. Medium guns are much better then heavy launchers. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.04.17 20:07:00 - [13] ErrorS im not sure _you_ understand what _you_ mean. You make ridicilous and totally meaningless comparisons. No freakin way having enough pg on Ferox to fit 7x 200mmÆs implies that Brutix suck. Ferox tank better, yes. Brutix has much better ganking ability. How does that prove ****in anything? ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Phades	Posted - 2005.04.17 20:59:00 - [14] One of Brutix's problems is that it has 7 hi slots, which are turret based, and the grid is short to honestly fit decent guns on a normal setup. The other ships of the same class allow the user to mix in missile tubes which drastically lightens the fitting load when trying to fill out the hi slots, in addition to lending to a bit of flexibility in use. The drone bay on it helps, but it does not make up for the lack of speed the thorax is able to produce, which also is a form of defense vs all targets as well as offense. The difference between an active bonus like a repair one versus a passive bonus like the resistances is only really comparable when both ships are running full sets of hardeners, thus marginalizing the bonus. This is not always possible, so i would personally suggest bumping up the boost bonus on both the gallente and minimar ships to help compensate for it. To be honest, i would have expected the prophecy to have the 7 turret slots and no missile options with the brutix being the reverse with 6 turrets and 1 missile tube. I do like the concept and design of the prophecy, but i think the brutix could have been a bit better.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 21:17:00 - [15] Originally by: JoeSomebody ErrorS im not sure _you_ understand what _you_ mean. You make ridicilous and totally meaningless comparisons. No freakin way having enough pg on Ferox to fit 7x 200mmÆs implies that Brutix suck. Ferox tank better, yes. Brutix has much better ganking ability. How does that prove ****in anything? I still have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.. sorry.. You either have a serious reading problem or a bad communication problem. I don't know why having enough PG to fit 7 200mms on a ferox would have anything to do with making the brutix suck? ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.17 21:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Phades One of Brutix's problems is that it has 7 hi slots, which are turret based, and the grid is short to honestly fit decent guns on a normal setup. The other ships of the same class allow the user to mix in missile tubes which drastically lightens the fitting load when trying to fill out the hi slots, in addition to lending to a bit of flexibility in use. The drone bay on it helps, but it does not make up for the lack of speed the thorax is able to produce, which also is a form of defense vs all targets as well as offense. The difference between an active bonus like a repair one versus a passive bonus like the resistances is only really comparable when both ships are running full sets of hardeners, thus marginalizing the bonus. This is not always possible, so i would personally suggest bumping up the boost bonus on both the gallente and minimar ships to help compensate for it. To be honest, i would have expected the prophecy to have the 7 turret slots and no missile options with the brutix being the reverse with 6 turrets and 1 missile tube. I do like the concept and design of the prophecy, but i think the brutix could have been a bit better. that's what I don't understand. Brutix is built to be a hard hitting, do your damage and get the hell out kinda ship but it has an armor repair bonus? The fact that it can't fit 7 decent guns without an RCU or some PDUs means it can't tank AT ALL. Yet one of their bonuses are for tanking? So to fit 7 200mms you need 2 PDU2s or 1 RCU. Doesn't leave any room open for hardeners or repairers. Personally I think an MWD bonus or tracking bonus would make much more sense on this ship. ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.04.17 21:36:00 - [17] 5% resistance reduces any damage whatsoever, that includes any HP you repair/boost, lasting 5% longer. Resistance bonuses are simply superior to repair/boost bonuses. Brutix was looking like the best in initial shiva testing, (when BC had grid around about 3000) shortly before they released it all live though they cut them all down to the levels we have now, the Brutix got the most severe cuts of the lot, resulting in great difficulty fitting it well (it ended up with the worst cpu, second worst grid 0_0) Brutix also has the worst capacitor when you look at its rate. Cap rate : Prophecy (1800/600) = 3/s base, Ferox (2500/1000) = 2.5/s base, Cyclone (2250/1000) = 2.25/s base, Brutix (2000/1000) = 2/s base. Another way of looking at it is that the ferox and prophecy have the most shield/armour and the resistance bonus amplifys that and makes it easier to tank with less hardeners, the cyclone and brutix both have less HP and need hardeners more without the bonus resistance, although both the cyclone and the brutix have the least tanking slots of theyre types. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.04.17 22:08:00 - [18] ErrorS 1) reread your first post 2) apply remarks about reading/communication problems to yourself. k thx. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..."
Kai Lae	Posted - 2005.04.17 22:18:00 - [19] Low grid, low CPU, bonus requires a module and cap to use vs passive boost, drone bay is very small when compared to other gallente ships. Cyclone for instance has more grid and a 750 m3 drone bay, where the brutix has less and only 250 m3 more. The fact that CCP in their infinite wisdom decided that only large hybrid guns needed to be grid reduced only makes the problem worse, in that if you want a tank you're forced (as with all cruisers) to go with dual 150's or electrons. You can go with ions, if you use a RCU or 2x PDU II. Frankly battlecruisers as are need to be redone, they all need more grid/CPU, and the brutix and cyclone need to have the bonus to shield/armor repair increased to say 10%, to make up for the fact of having to use a module and cap to gain any use from it.
Pegas	Posted - 2005.04.17 22:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Pegas on 17/04/2005 22:19:24 It sux cause u need to feal the need for a Battleship and after flying it a while to move on...he is a battlecruiser for TomB`s sake...is not going to start pwning Tempests And this is why thw HAC`s were invented...

Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2005.04.17 22:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Kaylona Tso on 17/04/2005 23:06:27 While you all were arguing about the brutix noone realized that the brutix IS THE UBER medium laser beam II ship. Since the hybrids lack any ability to really get a good 7 of them on, why bother. Brutix makes the uber gank. 7 Medium Lser Beam IIs, 1 MWD, Scrambler, Webber, Sensor Booster II 5 heatsink IIs -----
Phades	Posted - 2005.04.17 22:57:00 - [22] Gyro IIs with a laser? I get it, you are just trying to be humorous.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2005.04.17 23:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Phades Gyro IIs with a laser? I get it, you are just trying to be humorous. no i really meant it... but was thinking heatsinks... i have been clumsy on these forums for the past week... damn vodka and lack of sleep -----
Phades	Posted - 2005.04.17 23:11:00 - [24] I see, although i do think its kinda weird fitting the ship with meduim beam lasers considering the hybrid bonus and being meduim turret based.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2005.04.17 23:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Phades I see, although i do think its kinda weird fitting the ship with meduim beam lasers considering the hybrid bonus and being meduim turret based. you will see that 7 medium laser beam IIs don't really act like small guns they have better tracking and range than medium blasers, can hit frigates and interceptors, get a nasty damage mod, are reletively easy to train for, and don't cost as much as named medium blasters. That and you can fit 7 of them no problem and go from ~30km down to 3km no problem. Not to mention the bruitix bonuses are lack luster on most chars because of the skill requirements needed to suck performance from it. -----
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.17 23:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Phades I see, although i do think its kinda weird fitting the ship with meduim beam lasers considering the hybrid bonus and being meduim turret based. Most cruisers are best suited to using small guns to get the best performance out of them. Small guns are pretty nasty for their fitting reqs, only slightly weaker than their medium-size counterparts actually. And this is made up easily by their tracking abilities.
Alexi Borizkova	Posted - 2005.04.18 02:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Selim Originally by: Phades I see, although i do think its kinda weird fitting the ship with meduim beam lasers considering the hybrid bonus and being meduim turret based. Most cruisers are best suited to using small guns to get the best performance out of them. Small guns are pretty nasty for their fitting reqs, only slightly weaker than their medium-size counterparts actually. And this is made up easily by their tracking abilities. This commonality is why I have alwayw wanted ships like the brutix to get a flat bonus to it's racial weapon, in this case, hybrids.
Vlad Karamazov	Posted - 2005.04.18 03:56:00 - [28] Edited by: Vlad Karamazov on 18/04/2005 03:56:45 I have been using Brutix last week for lvl3 missions and find it more then adequate. My first lvl3 long time ago I did in brutix too. Took me 2.5 hour and multiple warp outs. I had to get a Domi to do them. Domi worked too well. After learning a lot about game and getting my skills up I went back to the brute. WOW it preforms just superb. There is no lvl3 mission that forces me to warp. Part of the thing is I realized that going all 7 med guns is imposible or will gimp you seriously. My setup is. 2 med neutrons , 1 med ion , 4 small neutrons AB , large battery , 2 cap rechargers armour rep , 2 hardeners depending on your rats , 2 CPR ABII helps and setup needs a good armour rep. I had named before and using techII atm. Antimater makes the range of the small guns and meds to overlap so you can use them against same target. Usually tho the meds go after an NPC cruiser while small are killing all the frigs around you. The whole setup can run forever with all things switched on and guns balzing. For the drone bay I use med drones. Can use 8 of them at a time which gives me spare 2. Med drones work very well against frigs and can get all those anoying too fast to catch rats. I noticed that if the rat is being attacked by drones it usually slows down a bit. PVP setup would use cap chargers and would have quite a lot of differences. Thie above makes all lvl3 a bit easy.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.04.18 04:23:00 - [29] Talking about lvl3 missions when comparing ships is crap. The balance issues arise when 2 ships are fighting each other in pvp. Any ship can be fit with some exotic setup for pve, but not all ships are good enough in pvp. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.04.18 05:43:00 - [30] Edited by: ErrorS on 18/04/2005 05:43:21 Originally by: JoeSomebody ErrorS 1) reread your first post 2) apply remarks about reading/communication problems to yourself. k thx. 1) Shut the hell up, you make no sense. 2) I was saying the Brutix was a good ship in my first post. 3) Hey look! I'm listing stuff with numbers! 4) How are you doing? 5) About the Brutix? 6) It is a fine ship. 7) It's bad because the Ferox can fit railguns! 8) Time for medication DOPIOJE#)($&(*)RYDH9u8xnpoi 9) Apply... ooh .. apply.. apply something, oh yeah! apply remarks! kthx kthxwtfomgby!!!!!!1 -kthx ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS



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