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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
878
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Easily takes the "longest dev blog of Retribution" crown from Masterplan. I'm still reading this one - haven't reached the end yet... "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
781
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.
Well, other than the 10 second (or whatever) spool up time. And the tiny problem of actually fitting it to the ship, that has to be a battleship.
Get a disruptor in place, and they're screwed.
And have you seen T3s with interdiction nullifiers? Totally immune to bubbles
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
190
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:[Maller, armor heavy pulse] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I Medium Energy Discharge Elutriation I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Hobgoblin II x3 7 minutes without MWD, still 10k more tank than other cruisers, you could also switch to focused mediums with 1600mm plate giving you 15k (!) extra ehp and cap stability for slightly decreased damage. Stop whining about the Maller
Congrats, you have made a Maller fit that has basically the tank of a Thorax (attack cruiser, not combat) with about 65% of the dps, 200 m/s slower AND STILL HAS WAY WORSE CAP (Still lasts only about 70 seconds under one neut from 100%)
Yes you made it 'usable' capwise, its still **** compared to most of the other cruisers though.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1130
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner. The spool up time is plenty long enough to get a scram on it before the MJD activates. It will require adjustment for a bubble camp to be effective. Its not a disaster. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
OlRotGut
40
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:38:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:OlRotGut wrote:I am still trying to figure out how you 'buffed' torpedoes. Besides eluding to the fact that GMP now affects all missiles, and a single tweak to Rage damage - (but nerfed explosion radius).
Am I not seeing all of the correct info in the Features forum missile thread? If you have GMP to level 4 that's a 20% buff to Torp explosion radius. And on top of that the explosion radius implants and rigs also affect it now. That's a very significant buff and the T2 ammo changes are just icing on the cake (and a great way to kill supercaps).
Cool, that's what I was figuring. (GMP skill, etc) was just making sure I didn't miss anything.
Brofist to you foz.
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Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
15
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
If the officer Drone Control Units are remaining the way they are on the test server, I can't say I am very excited by them. The only benefit they have over the meta 0 mod is lower CPU, which generally isn't an issue on a carrier that has Drone Control Units fit.
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:49:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Fozzie
Ore don't need a mining frigate.
They need a cyno ship and scanning ship to support mining Rorqals in their hunt for grav anomalies and for POS support. An ore frigate for THOSE roles would be wildly popular, your mining frigate won't be.
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MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
173
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Easily takes the "longest dev blog of Retribution" crown from Masterplan. I am the undisputed king of TLDR at CCP. I'm going to write a devblog just to unseat you! TL;DR |
Merin Skaa
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
That Venture better be able to fit a cyno and hold enough liquid ozone to use it. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:05:00 -
[70] - Quote
Hmm... it looks like ship speed got significantly buffed across the board (except for the existing T1 dessies).
Isn't this the beginning of undoing the speed balancing work done a few years back? Playing the devil's advocate, I'm just wondering if we're going to eventually end up with ridiculous game-mechanic-breaking nano-fits again.
Hint: when you are balancing stats, you are allowed to tweak numbers down, not just up.
BTW - I think the existing T1 dessies are going to have a bit of a problem catching the upgraded frigs. Which is one of the reasons why the old dessies weren't so popular.
And, just FYI, the upgraded attack cruisers are nearly as fast as the dessies (except for the Stab, which will now be faster than all of the existing dessies). |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2750
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Hmm... it looks like ship speed got significantly buffed across the board (except for the existing T1 dessies).
Isn't this the beginning of undoing the speed balancing work done a few years back? Playing the devil's advocate, I'm just wondering if we're going to eventually end up with ridiculous game-mechanic-breaking nano-fits again.
Hint: when you are balancing stats, you are allowed to tweak numbers down, not just up.
BTW - I think the existing T1 dessies are going to have a bit of a problem catching the upgraded frigs. Which is one of the reasons why the old dessies weren't so popular.
And, just FYI, the upgraded attack cruisers are nearly as fast as the dessies (except for the Stab, which will now be faster than all of the existing dessies).
While I would not object to a larger emphasis being placed on speed for destroyers, I also understand that in most cases their way of dealing with kiting frigates is the ability to inflict large amounts of damage at considerable range. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Denegrah Togasa
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:46:00 -
[72] - Quote
eidenjunior wrote:Quote:The Micro Jump Drive is a new propulsion module that allows a ship to teleport forward 100km. This module can be used in bubbles or while disrupted but not while warp scrambled, basically following the same rules as the existing Microwarpdrive. The MJD also has a spool up time and cooldown that must be waited between uses. If we can't bubble them then every ship will use it to get out of trouble. for capital ship can't jump will being buble or disrupted. Why should you now be able to jump inside a bubble? It should follow the principles of jump or warp not the MWD.
So my understanding is that Bubbles prevent warping not jumping. That if i was on a bubbled gate i could still jump through to the other side which is why it would make sense for the micro jump drive to work inside a bubble as it is not a warp drive. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1929
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
MOTHER OF GOD!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Alara IonStorm
3474
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Posted - 2012.11.14 20:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:(some would say too harshly, but I have seen what a nano gang using apprporiate tactics can accomplish with little more damage available than what the Stabber will have). Too small a niche with too high a skill barrier for a ship that will be the starting point for the youngest players IMO.
Here is the way they should have handled it.
Stabber: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+2), 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers (-2) Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1300(+11) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 260(+39) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3) Signature radius: 100 (-5) Cargo capacity: 420
They should have drones replace the launchers, the speed lowered and an extra low added. That way you can choose whether you want more DPS (Gyro) or Speed (Nano / OD)
Most important it opens the option to reasonably kite without Barrage with 2 TE's allowing newer players to use it before T2.
All and all they dropped the ball on the Stabber restricting it so much.
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Celebris Nexterra
Lowsec Static Exodus.
57
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:09:00 -
[75] - Quote
This is definitely one of the best devblogs released in months, maybe years. Well-referenced, well thought out, very informative, and very concise considering the amount of information it provides.
This devblog, I like it!
Another! |
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc To be Announced.
7
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner.
Takes 20 seconds to spin up, if you can't get a scram on something that's come through your gate in 20 seconds, then you're not doing it right. |
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc. Core.Impulse
86
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
Exciting stuff, also appreciate the effort that was obviously put into compiling it so neatly. |
Ila Gant
Hedion University Amarr Empire
169
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:If the Micro Jump Drive (MJD?) works in bubbles, how will gate camps ever catch anyone? With no need to align, and nothing able to point with a Scram at 100km from gate (or even 85km from a gate), it's just jump gate, MJD, align, warp away. You just made an invulnerable blockade runner. I saw MJD and the only thing that popped into my head is "Michael Jackson Dance"
"Yeah, my Apoc moonwalked out of that bubble." Come to think of it, the MJD really should jump directly backwards. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: While I would not object to a larger emphasis being placed on speed for destroyers, I also understand that in most cases their way of dealing with kiting frigates is the ability to inflict large amounts of damage at considerable range.
This was the original design (which is why the class came with a range bonus), but it didn't work in practice. Frigs were able to easily stay out of range of the bonused guns. Dessies need to be able to catch their targets - via a speed advantage or, more preferably, via a web/scram range bonus.
Ranger 1 wrote:Cruisers as a whole needed a speed increase.... They are a far cry from entering the realm of speed that required the nano nerfs... Speed is relative. Decrease long gun/missile ranges, increase hit penalties vs. moving targets, nerf TEs, reducing tracking speeds, etc. and you don't need those speed buffs.
I'm just pointing out that increasing values across the board usually leads to problems. You increase speed - now the guns and missiles don't hit as well. So, you tweak up the missiles and guns to improve their ability to hit fast targets. Then, the guns and missiles are hitting too well, so you buff the ship speed again. Eventually, you end up with Stabs moving at 20+km/s. This is how the original speed problems occurred. Not in a single patch, but a series of upwardly biased balancing tweaks.
Ideally, after each round of balancing changes, your average delta over all changes (measured in percentage change, not absolute values) should be zero, or nearly so. If it is consistently positive, say +5% each round of tweaking, then you are going to run into power/speed creep problems, which will eventually break the game mechanics. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
160
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Posted - 2012.11.14 21:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Cruisers as a whole needed a speed increase, as they are too thin usually to rely on tanking ability alone to survive. They are a far cry from entering the realm of speed that required the nano nerfs... with the possible exception of the Stabber, but it has been restricted in other ways (some would say too harshly, but I have seen what a nano gang using apprporiate tactics can accomplish with little more damage available than what the Stabber will have).
Unless you plan on buffing frigate speed as well, the stabber is very near the upper limit of how fast a cruiser can go before they seriously start to step on frigates' toes. |
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Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
3
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
So when does my Echelon get balanced into something actually usefull mate? Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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Robertina Bering
Local resources exhausted
0
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Posted - 2012.11.14 22:23:00 -
[82] - Quote
Micro Jump Drive
F**k yeah! Can't wait. It will change everything. |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
330
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Posted - 2012.11.14 23:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Please tell me that MJD's are still only usable on battleships |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession Brothers of Apocrypha.
78
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
Johndalar wrote:Makes my really sad that CCP spent the time and money on a new Stabber model and no one will see it as it is now the worst of all the cruisers.
Ah well the devs giveth and taketh away.
Pretty much, I guess the stabber gets to sit on the bench this time around. The bellicose seems decent at least now. *shrugs* |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
31
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:52:00 -
[85] - Quote
I think the links are a bit borked: they mostly link to {thread}&find=unread, which gets odd results if I've already read the thread at some point. Should either link to the thread (no "find") or to a specific post. Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Katrina Bekers
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
144
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:54:00 -
[86] - Quote
Happy b-day Fozzie! :) << THE RABBLE BRIGADE >> |
Ludiah
GOTTEG Mining and Industrial Union
1
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Posted - 2012.11.15 01:26:00 -
[87] - Quote
I noticed that you didn't cover the un-needed nerf to the Hurricane in this 'balance' post. Might want to mention that you are removing 16.7% of the Hurricane's powergrid because, to quote CCP Fozzy CCP Fozzy wrote:We're going to be changing the hurricane at the same time but I wanted that thread to stay dedicated to the specific cruiser balance instead of getting derailed so we're moving that here.
Since we planning to reduce the powergrid needs of all medium artillery by 10% across the board, we are also planning to subtract 225 PG from the Hurricane, leaving it with a base powergrid of 1125. Note from Ludiah: Please note that this is 16.7% of the Hurricane's total PG while they are only reducing the Arty PG usage by 10%
The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant. Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm. The hurricane will likely receive significantly more changes when we get to battlecruisers in the balance pass, but this is designed as a compensation for the drop in Arty PG and to help alleviate the problem of Arty ships having so much free PG when they use autocannons.Note from Ludiah: Please note the rational here, the Hurricane, a NON-ARTY focused ship is being nerfed by an amount GREATER than the Arty PG reduction because this will 'alleviate the problem of Arty ships having so much free PG when they use autocannons'.
Well great. But the Hurricane isn't an arty only ship. I fly it with AC's (and max out, or close to max out the PG) WAY more often than I fly it with Arty. Also don't forget in that dev blog that CCP Fozzy linked to as to what's coming next? The Hurricane will be losing a slot (I'm guessing medium or low as I doubt that they'll remove a high, or I hope they don't cause this nerf will be bad enough). So basically CCP Fozzy is telling us that of ALL the Minmatar ships that can fly with Medium Arty only the Hurricane is *actually* an arty ship (even though there are NO role or ship bonuses specific to Arty on the Hurricane. Or well, really what he's trying to say (and lying by trying to deceive us) is that CCP thinks that the Hurricane needs a mammoth nerf (or one much greater than the Drake (which is actually in need of one) is getting. But instead of doing it all at once. They are trying to slip in a medium/large nerf now (without mentioning it in this dev blog as one of the things *balanced* [even though they aren't supposed to be releasing BC balance changes till next year]) and than another nerf (loss of slots after making those slots even more valuable by slashing the PG) later on besides any other nerfs that they feel like making.
I'm really insulted that CCP Fozzy et al are shoving this untimely nerf down our throats. CCP Fozzy. . . Here's some suggestions that might make this better. If you really think that the Arty PG reduction is too much for the Hurricane then give it a role penalty to Arty PG usage. If you make it where when equipped, on a Hurricane, the medium arty's use more power (since the Hurricane is getting a larger nerf than the medium arty PG use reduction) than they do now (pre-Retribution) then you'll have solved the issue with fitting a full rack of 720mm Arty's without a PG booster (implant, module, or rig).
Then once you kill that slot (whatever it might be) and balance the REST of the BC's (and will have had time to see what the EVE community has come up with as far as the changes to the Cruisers go) and you'll be able to see if something like this was really necessary. PLEASE take this slower, moderated route instead of this heavy handed slashing of the Hurricane's PG.
(As a side note. If these changes happen the Hurricane will be down to 1125 base PG. Spend some time comparing that to the other races. The Cyclone will have more PG than the Hurricane (with the Cyclone having less turret hardpoints than the Hurricane). Heck ALL of the Amarr (granted they use Lasers which are high PG requirement weapons) have more PG than the Hurricane will. Actually, to be fair. Currently only the Prophecy has less PG than the Hurricane does pre-nerf (which resolves the higher PG requirement of their weapons) as far as Amarr ships are concerned. None of the Caldari BC's will have more PG than the Hurricane post-nerf but all the of Gallente ships, except for the Talos, will have more PG (post nerf) than the Hurricane will. The Myrm (a Drone Damage boat that can, but not advised to, do all of its damage from drones and thus free up a lot of PG for other things) will have more PG than the Hurricane will.)
While the Hurricane is quite versatile it will already be taking a hit in the future with the loss of at least one slot. The PG change should be held off (if not indefinitely) than till *AFTER* the round of BC changes and we see how it does. Anything else is a heavy-handed over-the-top nerf to a decent ship. Please to note that at no time have I (or anyone else that I've seen) been able to fit BOTH a tank (like the Drake) or a DPS fit. While the Hurricane is versatile, it is still limited, and at least previously that versatility was it's greatest strength. You could fit for tank or dps depending upon the situation and expect to be good at that (and moderate at best in the other). With the coming changes, it'll still be a jack-of-all-trades. But instead of being good at one of those trades at a time. It'll just suck at both equally. |
AlexHalstead
Elite Amarr Navy Academy
3
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Posted - 2012.11.15 01:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
Quote:The powerful Ancillary Shield Booster revolutionized small gang combat when it was released with Inferno, and dominated the 10th Alliance Tournament. It is receiving a slight reduction on effectiveness with Retribution, consisting of a smaller capacity to hold fewer cap boosters, increased cap need when running without boosters, and an increase in duration for the X-large variant. To be frank, it's powerful because you are getting the equivalent of two normal shield boosters for only one normal shield booster fitting.
I would look at making the booster amount be less than two normal boosters of same size I.E. scrap the concept for the ancillary shield booster repair doing 200% of what a normal shield boost of same size and same fitting do. Yes it should shield repair more than a normal booster of same size, but not as same as two normal booster. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
439
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Posted - 2012.11.15 02:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ludiah wrote:I noticed that you didn't cover the un-needed nerf to the Hurricane in this 'balance' post. Might want to mention that you are removing 16.7% of the Hurricane's powergrid
Quote:Alongside the change to Artillery Cannons we are removing 225 PWG from the Hurricane Battlecruiser
Ludiah wrote: I fly it with AC's (and max out, or close to max out the PG) Because you can fit two LSEs and two medium neuts with T2 425's, a MWD and a weapons rig |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
193
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Posted - 2012.11.15 02:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ludiah wrote:lots of crap.
The thing he is saying is that the Hurricanes fitting were made with arties in mind. And because of the MASSIVE difference in arty and AC fittings that meant that a AC hurricane could fit the ******* world on there with AC's.
Just try fitting a Harbinger with a 1600 plate, the biggest pulses and some neuts. |
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