EVE Search - Moo no longer the threat it was

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Skandranon	Posted - 2003.07.05 23:44:00 - [1] With this new patch, something interesting has happened. It is my opinion that Moo is no longer a real threat. For example, A friend and I decided to go Cow hunting, figured should be a good battle with some fun involved. Except that a Moo member popped to the gate, then promptly ran away. Again another popped in and also ran away, and then a third. So now other people who like Moo as much as the rest of us decided to have some fun and join us. So what happens but low and behold, Moo decide to blockade a gate in the same system, but on the opposite side. Then they start talking smack about how tough they are and how they're not going to come to our gate because theirs is much better and if we're so tough, come over there to see bla bla bla. They pod a couple people at the other gate, so we all gang warp to their gate. (4 or 5 of us at that point) And oh what a suprise, they run to the gate to jump out of the system. The mighty moo aren't near so mighty anymore, and they truly are a dying breed. Well they are if they want to fight cruisers and battleships anyway. Oh , btw we went looking for some other pirates in a nearby system after that and they ran away too.
Halo Jones	Posted - 2003.07.05 23:53:00 - [2] skand, come to the obe system and hunt the Pker then..... they don't tend to run away as much as you sugest other Pkers are Oberon Incorporated.
Stavros	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:01:00 - [3] u really really do not have a clue... -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Riffler	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:15:00 - [4] moo have always run away from anything approaching an even fight, nothign new about that, just that more fights are even these days. And lord zap has committed the ultimate act of cowardice, admitting their are no more fights he can win and gone off to find a new 'click, you're dead' game. Edited by: Riffler on 06/07/2003 00:16:18
Mohadeeb	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:25:00 - [5] Doom III <--- thank gawd
Lallante	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:30:00 - [6] LOL. just shows how much noobs posting on the forum can affect a game. The placid alliance know we dont run away from overwhelming odds. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
The Reverend	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:35:00 - [7] Not going to get into yet another long winded fight over why we're leaving. But 20 mins ago - 5 m0o corp members (who were playing CS) decided to take a little trip into EVE space at the request of another. End result we end up in Poitot - location of a known gang blockade - end result.... Gate one - we warp in, 3 members of gang jump, the other 2 leg it. Fair enough... I guess, might have expected them to stay a fight a little bit, but still. So we warp to the other gate - same result, instantly most of the people jump out of system, the remaining few warp and then either log off or dock. And people wonder why we leave.. Its not down to having weapons that have been reduced... Its down to having no-one to shoot.. Not through lack of trying. The one thing I will say for the carebears left in empire space is this, at least you people had the balls to TRY and take us on. m0o is not dead because of the players, in fact its those characters within you that have kept this game so entertaining for us, theres only one gang in this game that we don't like, thats threatening this game for those of us who care about it. CCP, take your bow. Edited by: The Reverend on 06/07/2003 00:35:36 m0ovie links
Mohadeeb	Posted - 2003.07.06 00:37:00 - [8] Just go.
Torval Sontu	Posted - 2003.07.06 01:05:00 - [9] I guess my opinion on corps like m0o were true they won't last ;). Let's see how many members quit before it dissolves or merges into another corp :(. Ahh well.
jabb0r	Posted - 2003.07.06 01:41:00 - [10] oh, another moO thread @stavros: we have :-) @Lallante : hehe @the reverend: oh ;-( Edited by: jabb0r on 06/07/2003 01:47:24 ---------------------------------------------- this is a signature winamp-radio-list
tekforce	Posted - 2003.07.06 01:54:00 - [11] Skandranon, you such a retard i am there the day you are talking about. We had 2 online they had 2-4 cruisers and a battleship came they warpd in we ran. I will never fight when i have a chance of loosing.
Dr Gonzo	Posted - 2003.07.06 01:56:00 - [12] A quote from Lallante: "The placid alliance know we dont run away from overwhelming odds." Erm, I must be missing something because the only time I have ever seen a m0o ship is just before it warped or jumped through a gate. Once again m0o shows its true colours, by blatantly lying on these forums. If you want to prove me wrong please fight during our next encounter, because that is what we come to do. As for The Reverend, you called us carebears, not very nice really :P. Why do you think we are so bothered about FD-MLJ? We may be based in Placid but we travel to the Syndicate to mine and fight NPC pirates, and you're in our way. And thankyou yes, we do have the balls to fight, if you like you can contact me ingame and we can organise a time and place (as long as its not near a station or a system gate). Good day to you sir. Buy the ticket, take the ride. No sympathy from the Devil.
Molly	Posted - 2003.07.06 01:56:00 - [13] Yep, only the clueless fight when they are going to lose. Fight to win, otherwise negotiate or flee (to regroup). Ask Sun Tzu, basic war strategy. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
jabb0r	Posted - 2003.07.06 02:00:00 - [14] @tekforce : true, true.....no need to be rude.... Edited by: jabb0r on 06/07/2003 02:03:18 ---------------------------------------------- this is a signature winamp-radio-list
Stavros	Posted - 2003.07.06 02:08:00 - [15] funny how we can't have '**' on a bat yet this guy can urination and comic nudity in his sig... yawn cya -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"*
Bach	Posted - 2003.07.06 02:14:00 - [16] Hey Reverend, Its not rocket science and the problem you described has nothing to do with CCP. You built a rep on podding everything under the sun. Its only natural the "carebears" as you call would eventually learn your tactics and respond accordingly. In this case by simply getting out of the way and even logging off. Its a natural response to YOUR tactics so you killed the game for yourselves by your story. Now you just need to change your tactics to throw them off again. Quitting the game doesn't really count for that. Normally I don't really care one way or the other about these forums but after a month or so of actually defending MO0's position in the game, thats right I'm FOR the MO0 in game. I am HUGELY dissappointed to hear you tell a tale that your all bailing because "the prey evolved to match the preditor and since this preditor can't evolve its is going extinct." That argument your pitching is making the MO0 look bad. If it really is the truth get your butts back in there and try a little harder will ya?
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.07.06 04:18:00 - [17] "I will never fight when i have a chance of loosing." ... Well, if you're only looking for fights in which you're absolutely guaranteed to win then you are not really insterested in fight. What you're after is simply executions of the defenseless. Which i guess is all fine in a game, just hardly impressive because there's as much effort in your 'victories' as there's in afk mining...
tekforce	Posted - 2003.07.06 04:26:00 - [18] The chance of any number of bugs happeneing while certain times of my game play will most definetly result in me dieing, thats all the excitement i need ill stick to winning fights. and shutup @ nobody knows you dont act like you opinion counts.
ABNTanker	Posted - 2003.07.06 05:15:00 - [19] It would be easier for me to argue that the guy was offensively urinating on a player corp's symbol than it would be for me to argue Richard Simmons holding a bat with the word *** instead of happy was offensive.
Azhraell	Posted - 2003.07.06 05:25:00 - [20] "The placid alliance know we dont run away from overwhelming odds. Lallante m0o" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA http://free-zg.hinet.hr/Azhraell/1.jpg http://free-zg.hinet.hr/Azhraell/2.jpg http://free-zg.hinet.hr/Azhraell/3.jpg Edited by: Azhraell on 06/07/2003 07:14:32 _______
Bentguru	Posted - 2003.07.06 05:37:00 - [21] all i'm gonna say is that CCP wont be happy when they see this thread
cutthroat	Posted - 2003.07.07 22:42:00 - [22] "The placid alliance know we dont run away from overwhelming odds. Lallante m0o" _______________________________________________ Really...why don't you ask Stavros and Tekforce about "overwhelming odds"...or even better, several members of "The Gang" who collectively got their arse handed to them yesterday by the SPC. PK you later....CT PK you later......CT
Morleidr	Posted - 2003.07.07 23:07:00 - [23] It will always be like this. PVPers will find it tough to be entertained. I understand, because that's what I am in every game I have played. Different companies try different mechanics. CCP tried (and promised) to give us a reasonable open PVP system in which the biggest rewards would expose a player to the biggest threats. m0o, whether willing or no, exploiting or no, their fault or no, has caused a chain reaction in the community. It would have been caused by another corp if m0o hadn't done it, so there is no real blame there. CCP overreacted on the changes, I believe, and the game has now swung far too much to the Care-a-Lot side. But whether the system allows for PVP is a separate issue. This point you guys made about "everyone runs from a fight, how fun is that?" occurs in every game as well. People don't like to lose, and in a game such as this, where penalties are so bloody high (for which I am thankful), people are especially stingy with their ships and lives. What do you expect? On this occasion we hightailed it out of there because it was clear to us we were outmatched in terms of firepower -- there was a battleship present. Piracy is about profit, not honor. In fact, OOC, piracy is about getting as much PVP and player interaction that you can from the game. Staying to fight a superior force may be fun but when it's over (and it would be.... quickly) there is a lot of rebuild and regroup time which is not fun. Choosing to yield to a bigger bully is not an act of cowardice -- it is just good business. The real solution will only come when CCP figure out a way to MAKE players venture out into low security areas but know the risks of doing so. They can only make them accept the risks if they add new content worth fighting for. It's too easy to run away in this game, to dock, to log off, to hide, to use alt characters. What we need is the promised game of "territorial conquest." Then people would put their ships and their ISK on the line to gain something. At the moment nobody wants to fight except the PVP junkies, but even they don't want to fight just for the hell of it if it seems clear that they will lose. I played many games, and this is the first game that would make me NOT fight when the odds don't appear even. The risk is too great. For the same reason when I win a fight or kill another player, it is a much bigger rush than in a game where death is only a blow to the player's ego. ......
Lord Zap	Posted - 2003.07.08 01:35:00 - [24] Several members have cancelled their subscriptions but if in the following weeks we see some change in the situation i.e not having sentry guns at all gates in empire space, we may change our minds and resubscribe. We haven't given up because of being unable to kill things, I've still logged on for the odd 30 mins and succesfully ran blockades. The main reasons for us cancelling are lack of content, the attitude of some Gm's and Pann to m0o, and the appearance of sentry guns in all gates in empire space.
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.07.08 02:56:00 - [25] . __________________________________________________________
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.07.08 03:06:00 - [26] CCP should have immediately said at the first whine: "What sec rating space were you in? Um, you know we told you that was dangerous right?" m0o did go overboard with the blockades. A couple hours...okay. Days? People refer to that as laying siege. But there aren't any mechanics in place to counter sieges. But really, what did people expect the minute they discovered there was no hard locking mechanism to prevent a weapon from firing even in front of the Republic University? That they were meant to be safe everywhere? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
MoonDragn	Posted - 2003.07.08 04:49:00 - [27] There you have it, the same words out of a bunch of pirates who mocked us for saying the same thing a month ago. "I will not fight when there is a chance of losing". Funny it was M0O making these kind of posts a month ago, about how everybody runs away from them. I think there is no such thing as a real fair fight in this game. One side is always going to be stronger than the other. The inherent problem is the gates. They are the worse places to fight at because they always provide a chance to escape through the gates. You can warp inhibit someone but you can't prevent them from gating. Some other area in the system is needed for these types of battles. One where there is only warp away or fight. The only way that is going to happen is if there is some strategic location that people can occupy and that the pirates can ambush. In my opinion any location where you have to ARRIVE and LEAVE at is bad. There needs to be locations where all you can do is impulse where warping is not allowed. Where you have to impuse through to arrive and leave. The way the game works now. That really is not possible.
Pann	Posted - 2003.07.08 04:51:00 - [28] Moved from General Discussion. Eve Community Manager [email protected] CCP
Lev Arris	Posted - 2003.07.08 10:49:00 - [29] There are several 'sides' to this and to be fair everyone has a valid point. Because it can take ages to build up, and rebuild after a loss no one will jump into a fight there a good chance of losing (and I cant say I blame them) I dont care if your pirate or not, common sense rules here - theres not point needlessly losing. The upshot of this is that only PvP-based corps will go out of their way to fight en-mass (the lack of corp wars proves this) and even then its a case of scouting, evaluating opponent strength and then exceeding it or withdrawing - what you end up with is a game of 'my dads bigger than yours' but not alot of actual fighting takes place. Ultimately the PvP corps _arent_ actually doing any PvP and they get bored - the obvious solution is to make losing (and/or death) mean less but then people start asking 'whats the point then' bottom line is you are _never_ going to be happy (either the cost is to high so no one risks it, or the cost is insignificant and becomes a zerg fest) Its very easy to blame it on the 'carebears' but I think this is wrong. Any game must have a vested interest in protecting its new players and enabling those who wish to avoid PvP to do so (unless its a PVP game like Planetside which would be a bit pointless) - however avoiding PvP comes at a price, all the good ore/loot is to be had in the low sec (i.e. PvP zones) so your development is slower/restricted. I dont agree with the argument that empire space gates shouldnt have guns - they should. Had players restrained themselves (which is never ever going to happen, there will always be 1) enough to leave newbies alone in the first place the guns would probably never have been implimented like this. They havent taken away your ability to PvP they have restricted _where_ you can do it (which is common in alot of games) - this protects the newbies (a must) and means that people must knowlingly put themselves at risk to get the big rewards. So the end result (Moo being bored because no one will PvP and feeling descriminated against by the system) is a predicatble result of the system. The fact that it wasnt controlled enough to begin with (in terms of protecting newbies) and the fact that human nature means we take as much as we can get has resulted in the 'lock down' of empire space. Coupled with the fact that, because the stakes are so high, no one will commit to PvP unless its likely they are going to win, and the rest of the population either arent ready of have no interest in PvP meaning PvP player are no bored.
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.07.08 12:06:00 - [30] You dont always need more ships to win a fight... Take a hint by that Oh and moon how about this to solve gate escaping. there coud be sensors that detect when someone is firing a weapon withing a 50k distance of the gate. If a weapon is fired in that radius the gate will shut down and go into defensive mode (fold up and such protecting all the sensitive jump equiptment). Not sure if this is a good idea , but it would take all the fighting away fromg ates and maybee to stations and fields were it is supose to be. Edited by: Lartfor on 08/07/2003 15:22:02

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