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Zirus
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:17:00 -
[1]
Yeah right.
Got a friend who tried one of em (Manticore)
Guess what!
Its slow while cloaked, cannot warp while cloaked ( Remove it from the covert ops tab plzz ) its just a kessy with cruisers on, like the old days.
So yes Im ****ed paying 100M for one, no offense but ****, those ships suck! I hope its not final, make it have covert ops cloak bonus for godsake if you¦re gonna keep it under "Covert Ops" tab.
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Core Bash
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:28:00 -
[2]
Bummer.
á
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Klaryssa
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:37:00 -
[3]
I agree they certainly need some work, but what would be the point in the actual mostly unarmed Covert Ops ships, when you can get a cruise missile launching one?
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Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kage Getsu on 19/04/2005 03:54:02
They should definitely have covert ops capability. They could lose some midslots, and be slow while uncloaked to balance it off. Then just make standard covert ops ships much lighter to balance it off. Then you'd have fast, stealthy EW ships with amazing scan probe capabilities, and stealthy combat ships.
As it is, stealth bombers are pretty lame if they can't warp while cloaked. They're too heavy, slow, and frail to make them worth using as they are now. And Improved Cloaks have some really bad penalties.
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Kublai Khan
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:50:00 -
[5]
Not to be an idiot about this, but why on earth would you fork out 100m for something so utterly useless without first doing a little research into the thing?
It's pretty plain to see that these are overpriced crap atm.
Can't warp while cloaked
Paper thin
Slow as, well... something stupidly slow
No way to circumvent the lock delay
Less damage than probably the worst interceptor, damage wise. (Woo.. 750~ damage/volley, any minnie assault frig, and probably inty, can do upwards of that with t2 arties, and probably has a better RoF anyways)
You'd have been a lot safer buying a taranis with improved cloak, some t2 blasters, a few damage mods and a gistii MWD. It'd probably work out cheaper, and it would be one helluva lot more survivable, while dealing 4x that piece of crap's damage/second.
Sorry CCP, you took a great idea, and utterly ruined it.
---
Follow me if I advance,
Kill me if i retreat,
Avenge me if i fall. |
Berilac
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Posted - 2005.04.19 03:51:00 -
[6]
or allow them to lock immidiatly after de-cloaking
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'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2005.04.19 04:28:00 -
[7]
Your own fault considering all the bad points you mentioned have been discussed in length already, they do and will always suck, your better off with a ceptor+cloak or an assault frigate+cloak and you achieve the same ability/drawbacks the so called bombers do.
Interceptor+cloak is a much more desireably combination.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 04:41:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Zirus
Yeah right.
Got a friend who tried one of em (Manticore)
Guess what!
Its slow while cloaked, cannot warp while cloaked ( Remove it from the covert ops tab plzz ) its just a kessy with cruisers on, like the old days.
So yes Im ****ed paying 100M for one, no offense but ****, those ships suck! I hope its not final, make it have covert ops cloak bonus for godsake if you¦re gonna keep it under "Covert Ops" tab.
Did you even read one thread about them? 
I and many other people have posted in every thread regarding the stealth bombers regarding their problems.
And no it will never use a covert ops cloak, as that would make covert ops ships useless*. But they really need a bonus so they can lock after uncloaking in less then 20 seconds.
* I could see them getting the ability to warp cloaked but it would have to be insanely slow (0.5au/s) so that covert ops arent made pointless.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 04:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xtro 2
Your own fault considering all the bad points you mentioned have been discussed in length already, they do and will always suck, your better off with a ceptor+cloak or an assault frigate+cloak and you achieve the same ability/drawbacks the so called bombers do.
Interceptor+cloak is a much more desireably combination.
Thats the really sad part. Stealth bombers have no bonus that makes fitting a cloak on them desirable. Sure they can move faster then other ships when cloaked, but they don't need it as they can shoot cruise from 60k.
They really need for CCP to put those 10km range bombs in that they where talking about.
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Sochin
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Posted - 2005.04.19 04:49:00 -
[10]
pretty stupid paying 100mill for a frigate.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Zirus
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Posted - 2005.04.19 05:29:00 -
[11]
Yes I admit I didnt do much research on them. But if they are under Covert Ops tab, then I guess I expected them to be just that.
100M is not much to me for buying new tech ships.
As most of us agree, they need to be looked over once again. I guess if ccp did put out new ships on test server, people wouldnt have to test them on TQ and find out its utterly crap.
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TheNecromancer
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Posted - 2005.04.19 05:32:00 -
[12]
you must be rich Zirus..need any new friends ????
lol
:)
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Muthsera
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Posted - 2005.04.19 05:42:00 -
[13]
I don't think you all see the point.
Anyone that was around may last year know WAB kessies was whit cruise missiles.
Whit cloak it's even worse.
Don't write these ships off just yet.
SoonÖ
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2005.04.19 06:45:00 -
[14]
I wipe my booty with 100 mil ;)
Of course.. I wanted a manticore very badly until I realized how big of a piece of crap it was.. might be somewhat acceptable without a cloaking device, though might as well fly a Raven at that price tag.
--
Nyrram |
Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2005.04.19 08:24:00 -
[15]
People will probably bein loving them once the price drops to around assault for interceptor levels.
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Xantia Blade
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:22:00 -
[16]
CCP never told you to pay 100 million for one.
They cost like 3 mill to make, so if you pay 100 mill thats your problem. Don't knock them based on how much you paid for them. Some player has made about 97mil profit off you because you let them.
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Jack Blank
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Posted - 2005.04.19 09:55:00 -
[17]
100m well to be honest i wouldnt even bother with one at this price, rather just get a BS and stick a cloak on it.
Personally tho, i might get one, not bother with the cloak and go around indy ganking. 
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SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 19/04/2005 10:06:46
I was under the impression they will sell for 11m each at max.
However the major downers is that they are bound to normal cloaking devices.
Covert Ops frigates have their own type of cloaking device.
There should be one or two kind(s) of bomber cloaking devices with specific attributes.
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A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:14:00 -
[19]
Is this with maxed out skills too ?
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.04.19 10:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: qrac on 19/04/2005 10:28:22
i say remove the timer for stealth bombers so they can lock directly after uncloaking.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
F'nog
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Posted - 2005.04.19 11:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: SlaneeshZ
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 19/04/2005 10:06:46
I was under the impression they will sell for 11m each at max.
Where did you get this idea? The only thing that governs the price of T2 goods, especially ships, is how much players are willing to spend. If people want to spend ludicrous amounts of ISK on overpriced ships, that's their choice. I won't do it, but more than enough will.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Muthsera
I don't think you all see the point.
Anyone that was around may last year know WAB kessies was whit cruise missiles.
Whit cloak it's even worse.
Don't write these ships off just yet.
Would people stop posting this crap?
T1 frigates with cruise where good because they cost a few hundred thousand Isk, and you get most of that back from insurance.
Bombers once they enter full production will be going for at least 10 mil plus another 10 mil for an Improved cloak.
99% of EVE could probably fly a cruise frigate. Bombers require as much training as Intys or Assault ships, and are much more tactically limited. And an Inty or Assault ship is still better then the bomber in using cloaks.
About the only thing bombers are uber for is whacking industrials and mining barges. And even then any competent pilot can escape from one.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: SlaneeshZ
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 19/04/2005 10:06:46
I was under the impression they will sell for 11m each at max.
Where did you get this idea? The only thing that governs the price of T2 goods, especially ships, is how much players are willing to spend. If people want to spend ludicrous amounts of ISK on overpriced ships, that's their choice. I won't do it, but more than enough will.
11 mil is overpriced considering they cost 2-4 mil (rough estimate) to build. Im just glad I have people in my corp who produce nearly all the good T2 ships.
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SlaneeshZ
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: SlaneeshZ
Edited by: SlaneeshZ on 19/04/2005 10:06:46
I was under the impression they will sell for 11m each at max.
Where did you get this idea? The only thing that governs the price of T2 goods, especially ships, is how much players are willing to spend. If people want to spend ludicrous amounts of ISK on overpriced ships, that's their choice. I won't do it, but more than enough will.
Well, yes, that's basically the way to go. I was just using the buy orders from before 2 days in The Forge region as base here. The reasonable orders were ~11m. I know it was probably slightly underpriced. However I paid like that for my Buzzard so I was just taking guesses :)
Sigil sold for 7.5 million on some regions too when they came out. Bought mine for 650k.
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A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game. |
Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:27:00 -
[25]
Ohnoes cruise missles in bound from 70km away what do i do?!?
*turn off miners*
Eeek 50km away?!?
*stumble the station menu but it keeps close on me cus im nervous*
30km away!! omg omg omg
*click a station and hit the dock button in the overview*
20 km away!! <cries as his tummy fills with butterflies>
*indy slooooowy starts to align and speed up for warp*
5 km away i might not make it
* all the roids suddenly get reeeeally small and far away as you fly through a planet*
OR
Im in a leet bomber4th3bqqwin! Lets pwn that mineing domi!
<warps in uncloaked and starts to lock with three of his buddies>
This domi is so owned
<Domni is locked and all three fires off a volley>
Hey guys lets shove it in his face we can cloak!
<all three cloak and move in with thier cloaked speed bonus to 30km and uncloak>
Hah hahahah in 30 secs your so locked on and pwned!
<18 secs later>
DRONES!!! RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!
<franticly tries to cloak>
OH NOESSS!!!
<Pop Pop pop>
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Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:37:00 -
[26]
My suggestion; allow stealth bombers to uncloak, fire missiles, and recloak before a battleship and maybe a cruiser can lock them. That means very low sensor recab time and reactivation delay. That way they'll be effective against big ships that cannot lock them before they recloak, but they'll die if the big ships have escorts that can lock them before they can recloak. Also you might want to add an extra launcher to them and/or reduce their sig raidus.
Ofc they need a class-specific cloak.
Btw I wouldn't be seen dead in those fragile and expensive gank-magnets, and I think they're a waste of time.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Viceroy
My suggestion; allow stealth bombers to uncloak, fire missiles, and recloak before a battleship and maybe a cruiser can lock them. That means very low sensor recab time and reactivation delay. That way they'll be effective against big ships that cannot lock them before they recloak, but they'll die if the big ships have escorts that can lock them before they can recloak. Also you might want to add an extra launcher to them and/or reduce their sig raidus.
Ofc they need a class-specific cloak.
Btw I wouldn't be seen dead in those fragile and expensive gank-magnets, and I think they're a waste of time.
I think that was the idea. But obviously CCP have some magical modules that they use to allow them to pull this off.
Cloaks on the whole are pretty ****ty. It would be nice if they got boosted so that they could be of use in most PVP.
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.04.19 12:46:00 -
[28]
Viceroy,
They shouldnt be able to fight battleships. Thats the sad fact in the game that battleships are the "standard". And when a new ship comes out most people say "Well ****, it cant kill a battleship so it's gimped"
But to add my two cents mate. What would make them interesting is not to de-gimp (is that a word lol) thier sensor lock on time. But to give thier cloaks the ability to break locks. That would provide them with a worthwhile defensive advantage because from the time they decloak you have at minium a 30sec window to frag them to hell and eat thier babies. But once the cloak is avalible, no matter how many people got a lock on them *PoOf* gone.
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Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.19 13:04:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Selim on 19/04/2005 13:09:16
Originally by: Ly'sol
Viceroy,
They shouldnt be able to fight battleships. Thats the sad fact in the game that battleships are the "standard". And when a new ship comes out most people say "Well ****, it cant kill a battleship so it's gimped"
But to add my two cents mate. What would make them interesting is not to de-gimp (is that a word lol) thier sensor lock on time. But to give thier cloaks the ability to break locks. That would provide them with a worthwhile defensive advantage because from the time they decloak you have at minium a 30sec window to frag them to hell and eat thier babies. But once the cloak is avalible, no matter how many people got a lock on them *PoOf* gone.
Isn't killing battleships the POINT of a bomber? 
These things should be utterly lethal to a battleship in a group of two or three.
Personally, here is what I think they should be like:
- Able to use one special launcher that fires citadel torpedos
- Gets no penalty to signature resolution from the cloak
- No sensor recalibration time
Negatives:
- Totally crap locking range (15-20km). Would make the cloak useful for moving in range to fire.
- Pathetic cargo bay, only enough to hold 5 or 6 torpoedos.
- Very limited defense (oh wait they already added this!)
- Very poor rate of fire... 20 seconds base
So they'd do maybe 2500 damage each per volley (kinda like a raven) with average skills. Essentially with skills they'd do 175 damage per second (comparable to taranis), but a very strong volley, enough to crippe a battleship quick enough for a cruiser or battlecruiser to deliver the finishing blows.
Essentially these things would be awesome against battleships, but they'd need ALOT of skill to use. You'd need to be really good at maneuvering while cloaked, you'd need to synchronize with your gangmates so you dont bump into eachother and uncloak eachother, and then time the first volley so the torps hit at once.
If they were like that they'd also give a reason to use destroyers and cruisers... to protect against bombers. And no, they wouldnt be overpowered... they are bombers, they're supposed to be uber against battleships but crap on anything smaller. These things are easy prey to anything that isnt a battleship.
Good bombers would be good for EVE, promoting more combined arms, both in attack (bring a friend in a cruiser to deliver the coup de grace, interceptors to protect the bombers from destroyers and interceptors) and defense (destroyers to protect against bombers).
Unfortunately CCP has no concept of combined arms warfare and this will never be done, because they will see 'OMG A FRIGATE THAT CAN HURT A BS... NERF!"
Ok what exactly would a bomber with these changes provide over a raven? Well... smaller target, can avoid BS fire up close. Cheaper to lose (Once they go down in price, dummies), quicker to lock and fire, but easy to kill
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.19 13:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Selim
Isn't killing battleships the POINT of a bomber?
No, it isn't.
I agree with viceroy. They should be able to cloak -> fire -> recloak before a Bship locks.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.19 13:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Discorporation
Originally by: Selim
Isn't killing battleships the POINT of a bomber?
No, it isn't.
I agree with viceroy. They should be able to cloak -> fire -> recloak before a Bship locks.
If these bombers arent supposed to kill battleships than why would it matter how long a battleship takes to lock it?
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.19 13:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Selim
If these bombers arent supposed to kill battleships than why would it matter how long a battleship takes to lock it?
Because cruisers and frigates have a much higher change of getting jammed before you try to recloak.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2005.04.19 14:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sochin
pretty stupid paying 100mill for a frigate.
p - l - u - r |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.19 14:36:00 -
[34]
Discorp you're forgetting that cruise missiles will suck vs frigs and will be weak against cruisers after the missile changes.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.04.19 14:41:00 -
[35]
20% reduction in sensor recalibration time per level of covert ops = problem solved.
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Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Yeux Gris
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Posted - 2005.04.19 14:41:00 -
[36]
My god man!
Piloting a Stealth bomber is a state of mind. and requires team work to take down a bigger ship.
Deal with it!
Who let the cows out?! mOo. mOo. mOo.. mOo mOo...!
WTB 8x 280mm Scout Howies. Will pay 20% more than Naga's current price |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.04.19 14:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Selim
Discorp you're forgetting that cruise missiles will suck vs frigs and will be weak against cruisers after the missile changes.
And you're forgetting that the S-bomber bonuses will change after the missile changes.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.04.19 15:24:00 -
[38]
Where does it say that?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.04.19 15:26:00 -
[39]
didnt I predicted that when thy released the idea of that bombers?
cruise missles are a laugh, nothing more
Wanna fly with me?
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Kublai Khan
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Posted - 2005.04.19 16:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Yeux Gris
My god man!
Piloting a Stealth bomber is a state of mind. and requires team work to take down a bigger ship.
Deal with it!
Sure thing boss.
You take your 4 bombers and try and take down a, i dunno.. lets say... geddon.
I'll take my 4 feroxes or cerberus's (cerberii?), or hell, even caracals, cloak em, and try and take down the same geddon.
We'll see not only who does it quicker, but who sustains more losses in the process (hint: It probably won't be the cerb/caracal/ferox group).
Or we can compare them vs cruisers.
You take your 4 bombers, I'll take my 4 taranises with cloaks, and we try and kill ourselves a moa (for the sake of argument).
Wonder who will do it quicker and take less losses this time? Yeah, probably the 4 tara's as well.
You can't simply cry "OMG Needs teamwork!" to make up for the fact that ship sucks donkey balls.
---
Follow me if I advance,
Kill me if i retreat,
Avenge me if i fall. |
CaldariCitizen 9735
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Posted - 2005.04.19 16:28:00 -
[41]
they are supposed to be able to fire while cloaked. A HUGE advantage imho? Warping should not be possible if cloaked.. that's too big an advantage..
Fire your cruise.. slink away to a safe distance. THEN run like buggery.. it's beautiful
Cloune d'Que!! zhey iss all ze Cloune d'que!! |
Garramon
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Posted - 2005.04.19 16:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: kneelandbob
they are supposed to be able to fire while cloaked.
Someone please help me off the floor...it hurts it hurts...can't....stop...laughing... 
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CaldariCitizen 9735
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Posted - 2005.04.19 16:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Garramon
Originally by: kneelandbob
they are supposed to be able to fire while cloaked.
Someone please help me off the floor...it hurts it hurts...can't....stop...laughing...
Then I misread the ship description. "Able to FIRE while cloaked" .. I must be daft then
Cloune d'Que!! zhey iss all ze Cloune d'que!! |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.04.19 17:28:00 -
[44]
They don't need to be able to fire while cloaked, they just need to get rid of, or immensely lower the cloak recal.
-Kyoko Sakoda
Omerta Syndicate
<Oveur> cause there is nothing as boring as seeing your ship jumping 50 systems
<Oveur> I can like, have sex 150 times during that period |
Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.04.19 17:56:00 -
[45]
I was training for one...then I heard that you get no locking bonus, no cov ops cloak, no warp while cloaked, etc, etc and realized I'd be wasting my time. I'll still train in that direction for a regular cov ops ship but that's still rediculous.
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