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Veetor Acme Manufacturing 0	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:08:00 - [1] - Quote Been back coupla months now from a long hiatus.Kudos to CCP for making huge improvements to the game. I am re-learning howto play and have activated several of my accounts. I only have one tiny litle gripe I would like to get off my chest. I have learned over the years to hate spamming d-scan. So much that low sec and null....I just dont go there anymore. I want a real time HUD for that. Then EVE will be perfect.
Darth Gustav Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension 1659	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:09:00 - [2] - Quote Veetor wrote: Been back coupla months now from a long hiatus.Kudos to CCP for making huge improvements to the game. I am re-learning howto play and have activated several of my accounts. I only have one tiny litle gripe I would like to get off my chest. I have learned over the years to hate spamming d-scan. So much that low sec and null....I just dont go there anymore. I want a real time HUD for that. Then EVE will be perfect. So don't spam it. Use it "selectively" to avoid feeling like you're spamming. Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Raptors Mole The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost 28	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:18:00 - [3] - Quote Or a verbal alarm to tell you what ship type and how far away it is. and If it is hostile or not. and When probes are within scan range. and Then your autopilot kicks in and warps you to a station. and Then you wouldn't need to stop watching **** when you earn isk. Brilliant eh! You could then apply to a large Null Sec alliance as a bot! Cos they don't use Bots, no siree, no Bots in Null space, not ever.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 460	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:24:00 - [4] - Quote Eve is hard, use your aurum and buy a helmet. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Sentamon 259	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:29:00 - [5] - Quote Raptors Mole wrote: Or a verbal alarm to tell you what ship type and how far away it is. and If it is hostile or not. and When probes are within scan range. and Then your autopilot kicks in and warps you to a station. and Then you wouldn't need to stop watching **** when you earn isk. Brilliant eh! You could then apply to a large Null Sec alliance as a bot! Cos they don't use Bots, no siree, no Bots in Null space, not ever. Agree with OP, D-Scan needs an overhaul. Programmable with audio alerts would be sweet, also it shouldn't be something you can spam. The current system is one that only a bot would love. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Darth Gustav Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension 1660	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:29:00 - [6] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Eve is hard, use your aurum and buy a helmet. Or a friend with no scruples about spamming. Heck, buy me a monocle and I'll scan for you. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1638	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:43:00 - [7] - Quote D-scan UI just needs to be improved. Should accept multiple range imputes. So I can just type 2AU and its automatically 299,000,000 km When Directional scan window is open WITH Tac overlay, a degree crosshair should show up wherever you point your cam marking 5, 15, 30, 60 degrees. Shortcuts for increasing and decreasing scan angle with a scan shortcut. You should be able to choose a secondary overview setting for it to scan, not just everything or your active. Some mods could enhance your D-scan range past 14.3 AU passively like sensor boosters. Or make the broader the angle, the shorter the range. so a 360 stays at 14.3AU but the more narrow the scan, the longer range it can be, so you can scan say 50AU ahead on a 5 degree. Maybe add a 1 degree angle, if you can tag it off grid, we should be able to warp within 100km of it.
Tiberious Thessalonia True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 653	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:46:00 - [8] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: D-scan UI just needs to be improved. Should accept multiple range imputes. So I can just type 2AU and its automatically 299,000,000 km When Directional scan window is open WITH Tac overlay, a degree crosshair should show up wherever you point your cam marking 5, 15, 30, 60 degrees. Shortcuts for increasing and decreasing scan angle with a scan shortcut. You should be able to choose a secondary overview setting for it to scan, not just everything or your active. Some mods could enhance your D-scan range past 14.3 AU passively like sensor boosters. Or make the broader the angle, the shorter the range. so a 360 stays at 14.3AU but the more narrow the scan, the longer range it can be, so you can scan say 50AU ahead on a 5 degree. I like most of these ideas, but the last one. I kinda like the range as it is.
Veetor Acme Manufacturing 1	Posted - 2012.11.16 06:44:00 - [9] - Quote Theres way to much eye candy and immersive qualities aout this game to have to stare at a spreadsheet while trying to be constructive at the same time, is my point. We dont activate our senses selectively...and by definition of a pod pilot our ships are exrensions of ourselves. Not quite sure how to respond to the "dumbing down" aspect of it as ALL other games have this very feature including fantasy games which to me is quite unrealistic.....odd that.
Shederov Blood Wrecketeers 245	Posted - 2012.11.16 07:23:00 - [10] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Eve is hard, use your aurum and buy a helmet. Or a friend with no scruples about spamming. Heck, buy me a monocle and I'll scan for you. Darth Gustav gets a monocle!

Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 1092	Posted - 2012.11.16 08:12:00 - [11] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Veetor wrote: Been back coupla months now from a long hiatus.Kudos to CCP for making huge improvements to the game. I am re-learning howto play and have activated several of my accounts. I only have one tiny litle gripe I would like to get off my chest. I have learned over the years to hate spamming d-scan. So much that low sec and null....I just dont go there anymore. I want a real time HUD for that. Then EVE will be perfect. So don't spam it. Use it "selectively" to avoid feeling like you're spamming. Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. Spamming D-Scan isn't challenging. It's hitting a freaking button. How the hell would it dumb the game down? By removing a mundane task such as spamming a button 8000 years into the future your super advanced ship in space should be able to do would immerse me by allowing the game to do a task that isn't hard. Dual Pane idea: Click! CCP Please Implement
Gillia Winddancer Shiny Noble Crown Services 119	Posted - 2012.11.16 09:13:00 - [12] - Quote Zagdul wrote: Darth Gustav wrote: Veetor wrote: Been back coupla months now from a long hiatus.Kudos to CCP for making huge improvements to the game. I am re-learning howto play and have activated several of my accounts. I only have one tiny litle gripe I would like to get off my chest. I have learned over the years to hate spamming d-scan. So much that low sec and null....I just dont go there anymore. I want a real time HUD for that. Then EVE will be perfect. So don't spam it. Use it "selectively" to avoid feeling like you're spamming. Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. Spamming D-Scan isn't challenging. It's hitting a freaking button. How the hell would it dumb the game down? By removing a mundane task such as spamming a button 8000 years into the future your super advanced ship in space should be able to do would immerse me by allowing the game to do a task that isn't hard. Tedium is not difficult or challenging, it's annoying and un-fun. You must realize that some people think that they are so pro that the difference between "dumbing down" and "improving UI/reducing clicks" becomes completely blurred for them. Me, I just call it them being rather ignorant and unintelligent.
Angelina Joliee Project Stealth Squad Initiative Mercenaries 2	Posted - 2012.11.16 10:34:00 - [13] - Quote I support the point. D-Scan-UI should be improved. I really hate this dump clicking all the time.
kopite Dudliers 0	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:02:00 - [14] - Quote Dscan spam is absolutely fine IMO. You want to avoid /find nasty/squishy things, you learn to use it. It is what separates the alert and prepared (both hunter and prey) from the rest. Don't like doing it? Don't. I am pretty far from hardcore anything in EvE but I believe in effort and reward. Onlly place i have found the spaminess a little wearing is W-Space but my time in W space doing that, has made me appreciate it for the tool it is. Other than "ease of use" (or laziness depending on perspective) I see no reason or benefit to automate D-Scan. Have to echo the thoughts about improving the Dscan UI though. It is very clunky and pointlessly complicated . The angle slider is i think fine as it is but for example; what benefit is it really to have to convert au to km? All anyone does is have the figures memorised (or for the old and forgetful like me) on the ingame notepad to copy across. Keep it manual activation but make it easier to dscan for the right thing at the right range. In summary, keep it click to activate but more intuiive to do the clicking right.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji 710	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:11:00 - [15] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. Unless said passive scanner took up a high/mid/low slot and ate most of your CPU and powergrid, gimping your fit and turning you into a "scanning ship"...
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 848	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:14:00 - [16] - Quote ^ How much CPU does the D-scan module take up? I'm not shitposting.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 432	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:23:00 - [17] - Quote dscan scam has been made impossible years ago I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid.
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 2	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:37:00 - [18] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. I don't necessarily believe so, passive Scanners are, as the name says, passive. So I believe it could be a good idea, or at least not the worst idea, if passive scanners just picked up the active scan pings of other players or probes since those are active pings, too. Kinda like a subway :P There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Jerick Ludhowe The Nyan Cat Pirates Nyanpire 205	Posted - 2012.11.16 11:53:00 - [19] - Quote Darth Gustav wrote: Passive long-range scanners would dumb Eve down WAY too much in my opinion. Way too much. Yeah.. because spamming a button sure is a high intelect way of playing any game... Removal of local + the addition of a 3d long range active/passive scanner would a huge step forward. It could work something like this... Active allows you to scan any object within your max scan range which could be dependent upon ship/module combinations. Passive allows you to scan any object within like 1/5 of your scan range however also allows you to pick up other players using active sensors at up to your maximum scan range.
Inquisitor Kitchner Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes 459	Posted - 2012.11.16 13:51:00 - [20] - Quote Jerick Ludhowe wrote: It could work something like this... Active allows you to scan any object within your max scan range which could be dependent upon ship/module combinations. Passive allows you to scan any object within like 1/5 of your scan range however also allows you to pick up other players using active sensors at up to your maximum scan range. As a hint if your scan range is current 14 AU being able to scan passively within 20% of that would let you scan within 2.8 AU. Considering I could easily locate you with combat probes from 4 AU out and you wont even see them then drop it down to 2 AU and warp into you within about 8 seconds this change wouldn't help anyone as you've be forced to active scan anyway. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Jame Jarl Retief Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 353	Posted - 2012.11.16 14:24:00 - [21] - Quote I'm of the opinion that D-Scan needs an overhaul. BUT, I would settle for the option to toggle the scan to scan automatically every X seconds. This wouldn't be gamebreaking, unless you you consider spamming the scan button a "player skill". But it would be a nice quality of life change. Similarly, how can you guy argue about automatic D-Scan being perhaps too much, when you have LOCAL, which is a system-wide automatic scan? I mean, come on! Local will let you know if someone's coming long before D-Scan. And what's more, what's with the table of results, rather than a visual display like a radar? DScan is one of the reasons EVE is so often called "spreadsheets online". If the results were presented graphically in a 3D space, the effects would be much more comprehensive at a glance, with significantly higher ease of use. Not lazy, just better. Look at it as driving a screw into a wooden plank. You can do it manually - turn, change grip, turn, change grip, turn, change grip. Repeat as needed. Or you can use an automatic drill - press a button and wait. It's not lazy, it's just better way of doing the same thing.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 304	Posted - 2012.11.16 18:07:00 - [22] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: D-scan UI just needs to be improved. Should accept multiple range imputes. So I can just type 2AU and its automatically 299,000,000 km When Directional scan window is open WITH Tac overlay, a degree crosshair should show up wherever you point your cam marking 5, 15, 30, 60 degrees. Shortcuts for increasing and decreasing scan angle with a scan shortcut. You should be able to choose a secondary overview setting for it to scan, not just everything or your active. Some mods could enhance your D-scan range past 14.3 AU passively like sensor boosters. Or make the broader the angle, the shorter the range. so a 360 stays at 14.3AU but the more narrow the scan, the longer range it can be, so you can scan say 50AU ahead on a 5 degree. Maybe add a 1 degree angle, if you can tag it off grid, we should be able to warp within 100km of it. Some fresh new ideas here, worth discussing
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 938	Posted - 2012.11.16 18:36:00 - [23] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Eve is hard, use your aurum and buy a helmet. This is an excellent idea. CCP plz put some helmets on Aurum market for 3k Aurum. Nao !! brb
XxRTEKxX Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution 25	Posted - 2012.11.16 18:46:00 - [24] - Quote Sometimes I wish dscan was different for different ships. Meaning, range and accuracy. A t1 frigate should not have the same quality directional scanner as a covert ops which has more advanced electronics. A t1 frig should not be able to scan out as far as say a Battleship could. I just think it would make intel gathering in wh's, where dscan is a tool of survival/killing, more of a profession. Like a Stealth Bomber should only have so much range to its dscan. Give the Covert Ops ships like the Buzzard a longer range and greater accuracy to its dscan. Then covert ops pilots would be more beneficial for gathering intel for the bombers. Something along those lines. Like in BSG tv series where the Raptor are all about the intel gathering and the Vipers would coordinate their efforts off what the Raptors saw. Im rambling, but basically I think its odd that an Ibis can dscan as far away as a Megathron can. Or even a Pod for that matter. Pod should have extremely limited capability of dscan.
Gillia Winddancer Shiny Noble Crown Services 122	Posted - 2012.11.16 23:44:00 - [25] - Quote And once again I say that the whole ship detection system needs an overhaul, directional scanners included. And yes, automated which in a way would be no different to passive - in this case passive meaning that they are always on. And of course like always, finding ships should be based on sig radius. Critical point, extremely critical point indeed. Assuming that local didn't exist. Submarines are the key. Submarines I tell you. EVE would end up being 20 times better on so many levels because done right you end up with: A: not having to spam a silly button every 2 seconds. B: a game of cat and mouse that would benefit everyone because finding and hiding would rely on player skill and awareness at a higher level than it currently does now, not to mention open up a whole branch of options. C: one step of many taken towards increasing population in low and null-sec just like that simply because the cautions ones will have more readily options available which allows them to stay hidden, yet at the same time not so invincible that they cannot be hunted down. EVE lacks in this particular department somewhat horrendously at the moment. D: If needed, stealth would be open for very easy revamp options as it could be tied in to the new system in several different ways. Keep it as a module that removes you entirely from the grid, change it to a module that reduces your sig radius somewhat significantly when activated, but keeps you visible, removes you from everyone's overview when activated but you stay physically visible (bit same way as to how I think ECM should work but otherwise completely unrelated) etc etc.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 830	Posted - 2012.11.17 04:37:00 - [26] - Quote Not going to lie, I wouldn't mind a live dscan.
Roime Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance 1418	Posted - 2012.11.17 10:02:00 - [27] - Quote I don't find the manual part problematic at all, it becomes second nature and most of the time I don't even notice using it anymore. However, the range and angle setting part is just terrible. - the slider. ****, must be the worst UI object ever invented. It's ridiculously small, the ball is tiny and the width too little for precise adjustments. Replace with a bigger slider with proper markings, or preset buttons for various angles, since it's not an analog selector anyway. - KM vs AU. Lol. Yes, we learn to use handy tricks to play with the range, but as long as it's own results are read in AU and overview is in AU, it simply makes no damn sense to use KMs in input field. As what comes to the player skill part, it's not about passively scanning at max range, but locating ships and objects with it and interpreting system events based on the information presented in dscan results. .
Darth Gustav Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension 1752	Posted - 2012.11.17 10:13:00 - [28] - Quote Roime wrote: I don't find the manual part problematic at all, it becomes second nature and most of the time I don't even notice using it anymore. However, the range and angle setting part is just terrible. - the slider. ****, must be the worst UI object ever invented. It's ridiculously small, the ball is tiny and the width too little for precise adjustments. There is not even a readout about your current angle ffs. Replace with a bigger slider with proper markings, or preset buttons for various angles, since it's not an analog selector anyway. - KM vs AU. Lol. Yes, we learn to use handy tricks to play with the range, but as long as it's own results are read in AU and overview is in AU, it simply makes no damn sense to use KMs in input field. As what comes to the player skill part, it's not about passively scanning at max range, but locating ships and objects with it and interpreting system events based on the information presented in dscan results. The overview uses km and m too. v0v He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Oregin Aliastra Gallente Federation 45	Posted - 2012.11.17 14:47:00 - [29] - Quote The issue here is that hitting the button proves that you're actively engaged in the scanning process which I think most of us, if not all, would agree is important. Much as I'd love to get rid of the spamming (and the now annoying messages that tell you that you're spamming...), anything that removes this necessary engagement will be too much of an easy intel tool. The problem I think lies in the fact that we have both D-Scan and Probe mechanics for finding ships in space. The latter is obviously a good skill based mechanic for finding ships. The D-Scan is equally able to be used to skilfully find and track down ships, but it's also a defensive system for early warning. I've no idea how we can get around this issue at the moment. --- On the other hand, I think there are millions of ways to make the D-Scan system much more usable. As has been said, the interface is turd. It seems that in all the UI improvement, D-Scan has seen no love, despite the fact that for many of us, it is the most important window on our screens, behind local (sadly). 1. That slider needs sorting, it's a PITA to select the right angle and often it twitches past the one I want. 2. The range selection is a PITA. I have a note giving me the KM - AU conversion and have to copy-paste different ranges into the text box. Seriously, how often do we use it to find things that are a matter of KMs away? Yes, occasionally I want to see whats around my grid but that's pretty infrequent! 3. Moving the camera to get the right angle on something is just annoying, especially when you're in a cloaky. Presently, we select our own ship to get a box and place that in relation to celestials and I kind of know what the different angle ranges include on my screen but why can't we see an overlay pop up for our vision cone when we scan? An unobtrusive indication of what, on screen, is the scan range, would make scanning much less of a guessing game. As well as this, why does a frigate have the same D-Scan range as a BS, or a recon? Presently, the only way of actually surprising an alert player who is using D-Scan is to fly a cloaky. Don't you think an interceptor or other forms of tackle should have extended ranges and be able to make an attempt at staying outside of the range of other ships' D-Scans whilst tracking them down?
Arduemont Rotten Legion Ops 683	Posted - 2012.11.17 14:51:00 - [30] - Quote D-Scan really does need an overhaul. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."



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