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Fort Knockers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.11.15 21:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
DISCLAIMER:
Being new, I've learned, I think, a few things about EVE and GD. In general, before posting *anything*, consider how will the post be interpreted as a
- pro or con minerbummping - goons are ruining EVE, please get rid of them CCP - a goon hug-fest - hi-sec is too safe, nerf it - hi-sec is too dangerous, fix it - null is too safe, nerf it - null is run by one large CCP-backed, in-game mega corp, fix it - PvP is ONLY ship to ship PvP, deal with it - PvP is ship PvP, Indy Pvp, Trading PvP, poker PvP, etc... deal with it - This post is obvious troll about one of the these (^) - This post is stealth troll about one of the these (^) - last, but not least, EVE has been dying for 10 years, can I have your stuff
This is post is not one of those, despite how many responses to the contrary that follow. That said....
QUESTION:
As a n00by getting his wings, I have a two accounts with characters I think I want to specialize as 1 - covert-ops to both explore and scout, 2 - logistics ('healer', not 'hauler'). Now, it seems based on my paltry player experience and forum research, these activities have a few skills where level V is a must. No problem, long haul game. I'm committed to investing the time, not crying about the wait.
What I'm most worried is that when learning, as a player, to do some of these activities, with low skills, it can get a little frustrating. Not tear inducing, keyboard slamming, coffee cup throwing, baby seal clubbing, CCP please fix this frustrating. Just the 'well, I still suck at this, is it low skills?' frustrating. So you go to the forums and read 'get skill X, Y & Z to V'. Or find use ship A, with fit B, which require some training time. I don't want to patiently wait only to find that with all skills at V, I still as player, still suck at it.
That said, for those of you who explore, scout and/or logi, how much time did you devote getting player experience in these activities on the way to hitting level V on some of these skills or does hitting level V simply make them practical to do?
TIA, hope this made sense.
PS: I refuse to generate any tears here. Wouldn't it be ironic if my lack of player skill generated the first...
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Nykr
The Last Call. Against ALL Anomalies
0
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Posted - 2012.11.15 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well. If you are flying logistics. And planning on flying it a lot. level 5 is a must. If you are planning to fly it sometimes. level 5 is a must.
Thing is the diffrence the skill makes from 4-5 is HUMONGUS!
Scanning. Well. I do it a lot. and got the skills at 4. So unless you realy want to dedicate your time scanning a lot. I guess 5 will be worth it.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
464
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Posted - 2012.11.15 21:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fort Knockers wrote: That said, for those of you who explore, scout and/or logi, how much time did you devote getting player experience in these activities on the way to hitting level V on some of these skills or does hitting level V simply make them practical to do?
The new expansion and changes to the frigs/crusiers should make having less than optimal skills in those areas be less of a hinderance. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
152
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Posted - 2012.11.15 21:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are players killing big shiny ships with t1 fitted frigs and there are players in those big shiny ships. Point is character skills are important as they make your ship and modules more efficient but player HUMAN skills are more important because they dictate how and when you will use that ship and modules. There is a saying around here "can't patch stupid", try to remember about that on your Eve journey. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
191
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
On Dec 4th there will be T1 frigates having bonuses to reps. So even as a low SP char you will be able to "heal".
To new players I always can recommend the "tackle and kill stuff" thingy first before trying to specialize in something. Hop into a Rifter or something cheap, add a decent fitting to it (propulsion module, warp disruptor, guns ofc etc.) and hop into lowsec or nullsex to find someone ratting in a belt. Kill him, or get killed, maybe both. Gain your experience. Then you're on a good way.
www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance |
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah scan skills to 4 are pretty good. Worst thing you can do is find out you need a skill to five to do something... eventually... and neglect to train more immediately useful skills to 3-4 first. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
977
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW ! |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Journies End
149
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Experience trumps L5s unless its needed for the ship. For Logis L5 is more than highly recommended. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
123
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Logistics is one of the few ships where V actually make a difference.
With V you are cap stable with one cap in (on Guardians and Basi's), with IV you need two in. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
979
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
And then there are Lvl 5's that 'physically' add something, like Planetary Interaction: a whole other planet for PI. |
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Fort Knockers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW !
With all due respect, I was trying to ask a question with quite the opposite attitude. The root question are level V's worth it? Not I want it now.
Should have added the self entitlement to my disclaimer. |
Lance Rossiter
CHAINS Corp
2
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
I got a strong sense from my month in Rookie Help that scanning is one of those things that people either love or hate. I'm one of the ones who loves it: and within the first few days of playing I was making millions hacking sites in low sec and getting Condors and Ibises blown up after scanning down sites in wormhole space.
If you can't get a site down even when in maximum zoom with six probes in tight formation, then it's a scan strength / potential character skill issue: it's easy to identify when that happens, and you can either skill up or get more advanced scanning gear. If you're having more trouble in general or just finding it annoying then you might belong to the "hate it" camp, and there's no shame in that. Plenty of people just don't like or "get" scanning.
Logistics, like the others have said, seems to be a more character-skill restricted activity, but will soon be opening up. Some things are just like that, gated by certain "fives" - the way you need Refining V to open up Refinery Efficiency and a lot of the ore processing skills, or the way you need Drones V to open up the skill that gives 20% drone damage per level. You can assess the importance of character skills by looking at the trees and seeing how large the bonuses are and how far you need to go down a certain path before you can access them. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
979
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fort Knockers wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:OP has officially earned the crown for:
King of Self-Entitlement and I want it All NOW NOW NOW ! With all due respect, I was trying to ask a question with quite the opposite attitude. The root question are level V's worth it? Not I want it now. Should have added the self entitlement to my disclaimer.
lol |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
89
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Posting in a stealth nerf low-sec captain's quarters thread. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10342
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
There are a scant few lvl V:s that are universally worth it.
Logistics V is one of them because of the massive bonus it provides GÇö it will frequently shift a ship from capping out in under a minute to being perfectly cap stable. Another is Drone Interfacing GÇö it's designed to effectively give you one additional drone without the bother of having to manage one more drone, and at V, you'll have the full (virtual) set of 10. Recon V is another common one because of how it frees up fitting space on force recons, but that still assumes you'll be flying those a lot.
Beyond that, it's mostly core skills and some fitting skills such as Weapon Upgrades (Advanced and normal), because of their universal applicability and because most of them are so dirt cheap that taking them to V is pretty painless.
The basic rule is that anything worth training is worth training to IV. V is for opening up new stuff and because you've got nothing better to do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
138
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
ALLLLlll lvl V skills are useful. When you more or less run out of things worth training, lvl V skills keep the queue full for over a week, some over a month. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1618
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
- Some level fives are so important, that if you don't have them trained after a few weeks of playing, esp. for a combat pilot, you're doing something wrong. Ex: Engineering, Electronics.
- Some are so important, that people might question you on why are you flying this and that but don't have these skills trained to five. Ex: Jump Drive Calibration, Energy Management.
- Some are a must have, or at the very least, significantly improves your ability at certain aspect/role. Ex: Logistics, Recons
- Some opens up more options; and allows you to do something that you probably couldn't do previously without the help of something else. Ex: Advanced Weapon Upgrades
- Some are prerequisites for something else. Ex: Large Energy Weapons, Gunnery
- Some improves the performance of certain ships or modules by respectable margin, but it's fine if you don't have them. Ex: Battlecruisers, Amarr Battleship
- Some improves the performance of certain ships or modules by some margin, it's your choice to train them or not. Ex: Surgical Strike, Guided Missile Precision
- Some are almost utterly useless. Ex : Multitasking
My thoughts on level 5s, mind you that this is not factual or anything, just an opinion. How to : Playing Eve 100% Risk and Conflict FREE! |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
278
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
For Logi, the 5 matters because of the bonus attached to it but in that case it's about how you plan to Logi.
You have 2 doctrines of Logistics in EVE. Fleet, spider tanked Logistics or autonomous Logistics where you try to keep your ship up and run Logi on your own. The second is good for smaller gangs.
If you want to run autonomous Logi, that 5 will make a big difference in how long you can keep your Logistics going. Truth be said, if you were going to lose a fight, the 5 won't matter. It's usually overkill in EVE to such an extent that the only thing that will matter is more people.
The same holds true for Spider tanked fleet logi but you can kind of get away with 4 there. The difference won't break the fleet, you just won't be putting balanced numbers in to the web. The way my Guardian is set up, I only need a certain amount of cap from my transfer donor to hold up my modules. 4 will do that. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
807
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
for probing, you want astro 5 to use 8 probes. after that, get covops 5, makes a big difference. the astro support skills are well worth it at 5 too but they take too long for most people to bother with. |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
95
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fort Knockers wrote:DISCLAIMER:
Being new, I've learned, I think, a few things about EVE and GD. In general, before posting *anything*, consider how will the post be interpreted as a
- pro or con minerbummping - goons are ruining EVE, please get rid of them CCP - a goon hug-fest - hi-sec is too safe, nerf it - hi-sec is too dangerous, fix it - null is too safe, nerf it - null is run by one large CCP-backed, in-game mega corp, fix it - PvP is ONLY ship to ship PvP, deal with it - PvP is ship PvP, Indy Pvp, Trading PvP, poker PvP, etc... deal with it - This post is obvious troll about one of the these (^) - This post is stealth troll about one of the these (^) - last, but not least, EVE has been dying for 10 years, can I have your stuff
This girl gets it.
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Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
It really depends - there are lvl V's that are worth to train and there are some you'd really train after you have about any skill you'd want on V.
Which group these skills belong to largely depends on the individual and personal interest - really depends on personal priorities.
Of course personal skill matters more than skillpoints, unless you're in a big alliance and not an FC - then neither in or out of game skills matter at all because eve is simply a game of numeric superiority on nullsec alliance level. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1666
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There are a scant few lvl V:s that are universally worth it.
Logistics V is one of them because of the massive bonus it provides GÇö it will frequently shift a ship from capping out in under a minute to being perfectly cap stable. Another is Drone Interfacing GÇö it's designed to effectively give you one additional drone without the bother of having to manage one more drone, and at V, you'll have the full (virtual) set of 10. Recon V is another common one because of how it frees up fitting space on force recons, but that still assumes you'll be flying those a lot.
Beyond that, it's mostly core skills and some fitting skills such as Weapon Upgrades (Advanced and normal), because of their universal applicability and because most of them are so dirt cheap that taking them to V is pretty painless.
The basic rule is that anything worth training is worth training to IV. V is for opening up new stuff and because you've got nothing better to do. Jump Drive Calibration. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10342
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jump Drive Calibration. If you say so. That's one of those silly Gǣbeyond battleshipGǥ skills, and battleships are silly to begin withGǪ
GǪwell, that and for JFs and Rorqs, but pffft!
Anyway, as for the whole Gǣhow much differenceGǥ, that's pretty easy. Lvl V takes five times longer on its own than all four levels preceding it put together. For that you getGǪ
4.2% more if the bonus is 5% per level. 5.8% more if the bonus is 7.5% per level. 7.1% more if the bonus is 10% per level. 9.4% more if the bonus is 15% per level. 11% more if the bonus is 20% per level. 12.5% more if the bonus is 25% per level.
GǪso yeah. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
152
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
A point more of anything can mean the difference between defeat and victory. Depends on what you do regularly. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
Mire Stoude
Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans
17
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Having a skill at level V makes you feel better about being you because you know that you are the best you can be. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1666
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jump Drive Calibration. If you say so. That's one of those silly Gǣbeyond battleshipGǥ skills, and battleships are silly to begin withGǪ GǪwell, that and for JFs and Rorqs, but pffft! Anyway, as for the whole Gǣhow much differenceGǥ, that's pretty easy. Lvl V takes five times longer on its own than all four levels preceding it put together. For that you getGǪ 4.2% more if the bonus is 5% per level. 5.8% more if the bonus is 7.5% per level. 7.1% more if the bonus is 10% per level. 9.4% more if the bonus is 15% per level. 11% more if the bonus is 20% per level. 12.5% more if the bonus is 25% per level. GǪso yeah. In game terms, Jump Drive Calibration V means you spend less ISK every time you move things, be it via carrier or by JF.
The difference is in light years, which is no insignificant unit of measurement.
Jump Drive Calibration V is probably the best skill in Eve to train if you want to do logistics or capital warfare. It is also helpful for Black Ops.
So yeah, I do say so.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
278
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Posted - 2012.11.15 23:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Tippia wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jump Drive Calibration. If you say so. That's one of those silly Gǣbeyond battleshipGǥ skills, and battleships are silly to begin withGǪ GǪwell, that and for JFs and Rorqs, but pffft! Anyway, as for the whole Gǣhow much differenceGǥ, that's pretty easy. Lvl V takes five times longer on its own than all four levels preceding it put together. For that you getGǪ 4.2% more if the bonus is 5% per level. 5.8% more if the bonus is 7.5% per level. 7.1% more if the bonus is 10% per level. 9.4% more if the bonus is 15% per level. 11% more if the bonus is 20% per level. 12.5% more if the bonus is 25% per level. GǪso yeah. In game terms, Jump Drive Calibration V means you spend less ISK every time you move things, be it via carrier or by JF. The difference is in light years, which is no insignificant unit of measurement. Jump Drive Calibration V is probably the best skill in Eve to train if you want to do logistics or capital warfare. It is also helpful for Black Ops. So yeah, I do say so.
JD Cal 5 with Black Ops up to is the difference between a regional bridge or jump and a gate camp. It's a good skill for what it's used for. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: In game terms, Jump Drive Calibration V means you spend less ISK every time you move things, be it via carrier or by JF.
The difference is in light years, which is no insignificant unit of measurement.
Jump Drive Calibration V is probably the best skill in Eve to train if you want to do logistics or capital warfare. It is also helpful for Black Ops.
So yeah, I do say so.
That's a big 'if'. If you're not into Caps or BO, it's quite obiously one of the most useless skill to have at V.
The bonus itself is nice, but then, although having JDC V and Amarr Carrier V, I consider e.g. Recon V, Cloaking V and even Energy Emission Systems V more valuable - simply because I used to like flying recons better than my Archon, which I only fly for moving base once in a while.
There are some skills I'd consider (almost) univerally useful for a character that flies ships in Space, which are mostly support (navigation, fitting or capacitor related skills) because they're pretty much always involved when flying a ship - be it a frigate, mining barge or (lol)BS.
So unless it's a station trading or production/invention character these skills are always preferable because they're applicable to almost everything you'll ever fly.
Actually I just trained 12 mill SP of support skills to get core integrity, capacitor, navigation and fitting certificates to elite before I even bothered training any spaceship command or weapon skills at all on my latest alt.
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1667
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: In game terms, Jump Drive Calibration V means you spend less ISK every time you move things, be it via carrier or by JF.
The difference is in light years, which is no insignificant unit of measurement.
Jump Drive Calibration V is probably the best skill in Eve to train if you want to do logistics or capital warfare. It is also helpful for Black Ops.
So yeah, I do say so.
That's a big 'if'. If you're not into Caps or BO, it's quite obiously one of the most useless skill to have at V. The bonus itself is nice, but then, although having JDC V and Amarr Carrier V and BO V, I consider e.g. Recon V, Cloaking V and even Energy Emission Systems V more valuable - simply because I used to like flying recons better than my Archon and just trained BO V because I didn't have anything else to train for - and I only fly the Archon for moving base once in a while kand don't even own a BO. There are some skills I'd consider (almost) univerally useful for a character that flies ships in Space, which are mostly support (navigation, fitting or capacitor related skills) because they're pretty much always involved when flying a ship - be it a frigate, mining barge or (lol)BS. So unless it's a station trading or production/invention character these skills are always preferable because they're applicable to almost everything you'll ever fly. Actually I just trained 12 mill SP of support skills to get core integrity, capacitor, navigation and fitting certificates to elite before I even bothered training any spaceship command or weapon skills at all on my latest alt. Tippia mentioned one or two skills and intimated that there were a few others that were situational.
I obliged with a reply. JDC V. If you do JF or Carrier or Blops, you want it. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
223
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Posted - 2012.11.16 00:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
For logistics V means difference between "amateur" and "pro" - ship w/o lvl5 skill has 75-80% of its full capacity (not enough cap to run all reppers / links at once non-stop). |
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