Post in the thread if you like this idea help! A simple "I like this idea!" would be nice!

So moving stuff from place to place in eve isn't really all that dangerous, difficult, interesting, or that profitable most of the time. Piracy isn't all that profitable either. So why not add more lowsec between the 4 empires. By more I mean, it would be utterly impossible to get from gallente space to caldari space without crossing lowsec at some point.

When doing this I wouldn't want the routes to be setup where there are only 1-2 chokepoints you have to cross, I would also prescribe the addition of new regions.

This would buff trading by making it harder, weird i know but hear me out. The less freighters going back and forth from jita to dodixie moving ice, the more expensive ice is in the area's where it can't be mined. Faction modules become items that must be smuggled across dangerous open waters. Pirates actively hunt badgers full of ore, trading corporations setup large fleets to escort freighters, etc. When I watch TV and see pirates they are plundering trade routes and making commerce harder, eve pirates don't really affect commerce at all.

Imagine all the fun that can be had when you actually have to be at risk to move things? Sure their is suicide ganking but that only happens if your hauling a stupid amount of things or are just unlucky.

If this change was added i would consider a cloaking hauler to move items myself since I am not as inclined to do research to exploit the market under the current landscape.

To ease the transition for players who may be heavily dependent on say building things in Amarr and moving them to Jita or Jita based station traders who can't move things themselves, I propose a few temporary changes to help the transition to a new Eve economy. Every player will get 3 Interbus free move vouchers that can transport 900km3 of items each from any hisec system to another. Players will also get a voucher to move ANY 5 fully assembled ships regardless of cargo. These vouchers would only last for one month.
Additionally the number of direct Hisec-HIsec wormhole connections could be boosted 300%, and over 6 months be slowly brought down to normal levels to assist the redistribution of materials.

Common Arguments:

This would make everyone just live in Jita!


If all hisec players lived in Jita then who would do amarr missions and mine amarr ice/ore?
Not everything can be found in one empire making it nessecary that players spread themselves out evenly.

Every system will be like Rancer

Rancer is Rancer because it is impossible to go around it. Their is only 1 link that connects Minmatar and Caldari space, only one. If new regions are added like I prescribe then it will always be easy to circumvent these camps with a little know how.

This interrupts my playstyle!

Do you really need to do Damsel in Distress once for every faction?
Is it really that big a deal if you now need to sell your products locally instead of at one super hub as an industrialist?

It will all just be jump freightered across the gap!

There are a limited number of jump freighters to move items. At 6bil a pop it will be very difficult to move lots of ships and over the gap constantly. Also with the next patch about to increase fuel prices, such a constant demand for ships jumping will make the JF option less attractive.

If you had the number of jump freighters going back and forth between the empires as you do freightesr autopiloting from amarr to jita, it is likely that the number of pirate dreadnaughts ready to blap you would also go up over time, so obviously a JF isn't totally risk free either.


It is impossible to cross low sec safely and it disrupts traders gameplay!

On the contrary, empire to empire wormholes that can fit freighters and cloaking haulers are available to traders.
Volumes of items being moved to make prices more homogenous will be reduced meaning greater profits will be made each trip making the use of these methods more profitable.

It doesnt make sense lore wise!

WRONG. Borders between enemy nations do not have to be safe and are often not. Security status is not determined by the presence of the empires military but concord's ability to secure those areas. The US Mexico border is a RL example of this, its a desolate desert covered with patrol agents and drug cartel operatives who will sew your genitals to your face and put explosives in them after sending your corpse back to your family.
The borders between allied empires could be also insecure, since they may be frontier areas since this idea comes with adding new regions that disrupt Jugate travel, these areas would be a frontier, thus not very well secured.


Gate camps aren't fun or pvp!

While mostly true the fact that gate camps exist will provide opportunities for pirates to make money actually pirating.
More importantly the fact that a gate camp is there means that someone will want to come and break it up, encouraging fleet pvp off stations encouraging more fun.


New thread about this topic started in CSM Assembly Hall
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175823&find=unread

Proposed layout of the new regions and lore explanation
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2234451#post2234451

The separation of the empires creates a very unfriendly game atmosphere overall, and that not only for new players with low skill points, but for everybody. The districts between empires would be utterly infested with pirates - which by itself is a disgusting idea to support alltogether.

I just wonder how low-SP players, who start running the Epic arc missions (The Blood-Stained Stars) are supposed to travel through the four empires, while year-old and advanced pirates camp the gates between empires.
Or how friends from all four empires, who just find themselves online at a particular moment can just find together to have good time for an hour or two.

The idea of separating the empires is not new. CCP had this idea already and it was reality in the game. CCP replaced this nonsensical idea through that what we have today. And nobody with common sense will turn back to the vomit of the past that he left behind.

I am utterly disgusted by piracy, isolation, separation, and darkness and seek light, peace, joy, righteousness, and unity.

I think this is a fantastic idea! Especially for those looking to make isk with hauling goods. First there would need to be some changes to NPC rats.

Firstly CCP would need to make rats spawn only in certain empires. Guristas in Caldari space, Serpentis in Gallente space etc.
So the only way to gain Meta 2-4 gear would be in those specific Empires, or to have someone ship these items across dangerous space lanes.

For example, my Nemesis fit requires Meta 4 torpedo launchers to work, but I live in Gallente space. I need to hope some brave haulers have shipped these launchers across pirate infested areas or I'll have to make the trek myself.

As an industrialist I can see that there is a need for autocannons in Amarr space. So I fit up a cheap hauler (maybe warp stab it) and dive into Minmatar space. Then I raise the prices in Amarr because of the danger I went through. This is how I envisioned playing the markets when I first heard of Eve.

This brings up engaging gameplay as a market manipulator. I believe this is much better than, "Buy in Jita, autopilot to Rens"

Now I have to figure out how much profit do I need if I have to pay a corp member to bring a sacrificial griffin to jam would be pirates (not saying thats a great strategy, but you get the idea)

Hi, folx

There is one more aspect you are missing in this interesting discussion
Right now EVE Online is a world of thousands beggars
Imagine the separation of faction space SHALL make EVE Universe the world dominated by newbies desperately begging for 10M+
for losses of their brand new frigates/dessies/cruisers etc.
This would simply ruin public and help channels tranforming them ino walls of spam like Jita local read by noone.
Sure, the low-sec border areas should be camped 23.5/7 and sure unaware newbs and more clever twinks pretending they lost their ships shold annoy way more then do now.
Even now public channels are alot of spam and scam. More newbs ship kills shall imcrease begging dramatically
That's my point.
Thanks

In my opinion it is more likely that CCP would bring in more subs if they made things in Eve safer.
Would draw more of a crowd from other "safe" style MMOs, and provides a bigger crowd.

Extreme buff to power blocks able to get jump bridges between empires, practically monopolizing the hauling business and the trans-empire super-lucrative markets. Players who don't belong to those are thrown off the market both in trade hauling and in industry - because nobody would ever undermine people with cheapest materials from all empires.

-1 would unsub all alts just for that, before I mention other issues with it.

Wormholes, no way. Only 3 of 9 hisec ones would even allow a freighter, and would allow a total of 2 or 3. Jump bridges will serve 10 in time it takes to scan one down. I've been scanning wormholes for half a year (until Odyssey obsoleted it) and only met TWO hisec wormholes, neither of them freighter-sized, in hisec. Not an option.

Travelling through lowsec was never an option, it's a suicide in anything other than cloaked inty, which is a delayed suicide until you meet a smartbomber, which you WILL meet if this goes live.

There would be no market for stealth transports either. Because they won't be needed due to having no hauling value based on their lolcargocapacity - they can't even bring enough ammo, try hauling something in them. I'd say people would just pay to local pirates to pass in their jump freighter, but there would be no local pirates either. Blobs would overrun them all for this new gold, and claim it for themselves, so nobody not belonging to a blob shall pass.

There are no opportunities for mercs, as they can only harass blobbers in hisec at best. In lowsec they'll live for about as long as a freighter it costed to hire them.
There are no opportunities for pirates, just regular gate camping scrubs tired of getting blobbed would join a power block and employed as guard dogs to let everyone from the blue donut pass, and chew on whatever tries to scout in T1 frigs (since obviously nothing bigger would ever come into a camped gate).
There are no opportunities for haulers, just get blue standings, train for jump freighter, pay a billion for a month long cyno rights in a certain empire-bound system, and keep doing whatever you were doing - but now for free, because as long as it's profitable to do, cyno rights would just raise in prices.
There are no opportunities to industrialists - blocks holding every market under their fat belly would have cheapest materials of every region, which no non-block industrialist would be able to obtain, and the ability to deliver to any region so that nobody is left untouched.

Honestly, I don't see anyone (except blue donut slumlords) who gains something with this change.

Definitely needs a sticky. Instead of extending the high-sec routes between the major trade hubs, I think I'd prefer a shorter low-sec route.

How would you even start by implementing it incrementally?

Nothing would really change until you sever the tie completely.

That is not true at all. All low sec choke points are camped, all entries to busy low secs are camped. Low secs that separate the empires are the very definition of a choke point and would be camped 24/7, because people need to travel. Imagine Ammake, Rancer and Old Man Star all together in 1 system. These low secs would be the very places that people should avoid at all cost if they want to survive.

. Old man star is very active, but it is not chokepoint for anywhere except other low sec, just lot of people calling it home.

Sure it could be done. Nothing stops them from setting up Cyno ships to get back to their jump gate networks on a moments notice. .

Nothing stops them from setting up cyno ships in a chain to get them back into systems with their own jump networks. If they decided they wanted to, they could do it with ease. it would be a massive undertaking, but that's kinda what those guys do. If they found it to be worth their while, and for a few establishing an iron grip on all trade would indeed be worth it, they could do it. They have already proven they have no problem spending large sums of ISK, time and effort manipulating the markets on a large scale so long as they get more back.

Locking down a highsec system isn't exactly feasible. This stems from the fact that locking down any highsec system isn't feasible because highsec doesn't allow open engagement without mandatory consequence. Lowsec doesn't abide by the same rule set.

What an absolutely horrible idea.. How in anyones mind would they think this to be good ? There are so many negatives to this. let me list just a couple

1. the pricing on everything would skyrocket. There is so much materials moved between the empires its stupid. This would cause a domino effect that would take years if at all for the market to adjust or compensate.

2. All those low sec system would become choke points....Rancer enough said.

3. it would literally empty out the other factions as long as jita continued to be the trade hub.

4. all this to improve one specific type of game play ? really ???

You cannot access all high sec safely even today. Study the map better.

There is already enough risk vs. no reward in this sector. Yay, we need even more of that.

You forget over your local resources that you need resources from all over the universe to produce things. That is CCP's way to balance things in industry already, Making it even harder to bring them to other regions is unnecessary.
Besides, local resources already sell cheap; what matters are resources that are not local and that cannot be made locally.

It is not. Stop saying that, it's completely untrue. PVP is a part of it, but not the biggest. That is only what people like you want to think. EVE is a simulation with many different aspects, not a shooter like you want to believe.

plus it messes up the main market hubs

It is now but this change would mean far fewer people bothering to go cross hub due to the difficulties imposed by the forced separation of the hisec areas. Nobody would make multiple runs between areas of losec when they could just make one run to jitas to sell manufactured stuff and buy feedstocks. This change would polarize the trade areas for the worse.

The larger groups could easily control the faster routes and therfore undercut the smaller producers thus destabilizing the market.

And what about financial risk? Those trading in hisec have to risk larger sums comparatively to make the same profits as the amounts risked by those in losec or null. Is that not risk too? PvP trading is just as brutal as firing anti-matter, just there's no graphics for it. Risk/Reward is always referred to in terms of shooting each other, but that is far from the only risk in Eve. All should be catered for and rewarded.