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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
110
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Posted - 2012.11.22 07:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
Late praise, but I have to agree it was a pretty good read. tbh, though, I love The Big Lie because it provides hours of wholesome trolling. And I hate the carebear attitude.
Nerf the **** out of high-sec. |

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
204
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 07:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Berendas wrote:Good read, but I think you need to add a footnote to section (4). Some people are just there to annoy, incite argument, and get their yucks at the discussion's expense. They may be completely logical people (most legitimate trolls are) but they will not allow their logic to be visible and will make posts that are incorrect or intentionally uninformed. Not everyone is wise to their game so these detractors may be obvious to some but not all of EVE's forum-goers. This is a must read interview with a Troll related to the topic at hand: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/nov/09/confessions-of-an-internet-troll
OMG this is hilarious....still laughing...ty for that...
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2100
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Posted - 2012.11.22 09:06:00 -
[93] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:If I used a word you don't understand, just ask what it means. I'm happy to help.
I think he's referring to the status of the two sites as being propaganda dispensaries, rather than practically useful for the people who aren't controlling the message.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5187
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:28:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:If I used a word you don't understand, just ask what it means. I'm happy to help. I think he's referring to the status of the two sites as being propaganda dispensaries, rather than practically useful for the people who aren't controlling the message.
As previously mentioned, I'm in an alliance that is currently hostile to the CFC (although not currently actively engaged against them). Simply dimissing the site (and therefore all its content) as a "propaganda mouthpiece" is pure laziness, and probably reveals more about his prejudices than about the content of my article. It's perhaps worth mentioning that The Big Lie is a direct attack on (amongst other things) the "pubbie" meme. Where is the propaganda mouthpiece now? Simply dismissing the article is far easier than reading it, understanding it and criticizing it.
In short: proof or STFU
As the author of the piece, I'm quite happy to publish on TheMittani, because I'm confident that there will not be any editorial interference concerning the theme and conclusions of my pieces, and I would recommend anyone who feels the urge to write something more substantial than an evanescent forum post to do the same. In the event that I submitted an article which was substantially changed by the editors, I'd instantly repudiate it and post the original piece everywhere I could. As the editors are surely aware.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
759
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:If I used a word you don't understand, just ask what it means. I'm happy to help. I think he's referring to the status of the two sites as being propaganda dispensaries, rather than practically useful for the people who aren't controlling the message. As previously mentioned, I'm in an alliance that is currently hostile to the CFC (although not currently actively engaged against them). Simply dimissing the site (and therefore all its content) as a "propaganda mouthpiece" is pure laziness, and probably reveals more about his prejudices than about the content of my article. It's perhaps worth mentioning that The Big Lie is a direct attack on (amongst other things) the "pubbie" meme. Where is the propaganda mouthpiece now? Simply dismissing the article is far easier than reading it, understanding it and criticizing it. In short: proof or STFU As the author of the piece, I'm quite happy to publish on TheMittani, because I'm confident that there will not be any editorial interference concerning the theme and conclusions of my pieces, and I would recommend anyone who feels the urge to write something more substantial than an evanescent forum post to do the same. In the event that I submitted an article which was substantially changed by the editors, I'd instantly repudiate it and post the original piece everywhere I could. As the editors are surely aware.
The Mittani?
I thought it was The Ego. This is not a signature. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5187
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:If I used a word you don't understand, just ask what it means. I'm happy to help. I think he's referring to the status of the two sites as being propaganda dispensaries, rather than practically useful for the people who aren't controlling the message. As previously mentioned, I'm in an alliance that is currently hostile to the CFC (although not currently actively engaged against them). Simply dimissing the site (and therefore all its content) as a "propaganda mouthpiece" is pure laziness, and probably reveals more about his prejudices than about the content of my article. It's perhaps worth mentioning that The Big Lie is a direct attack on (amongst other things) the "pubbie" meme. Where is the propaganda mouthpiece now? Simply dismissing the article is far easier than reading it, understanding it and criticizing it. In short: proof or STFU As the author of the piece, I'm quite happy to publish on TheMittani, because I'm confident that there will not be any editorial interference concerning the theme and conclusions of my pieces, and I would recommend anyone who feels the urge to write something more substantial than an evanescent forum post to do the same. In the event that I submitted an article which was substantially changed by the editors, I'd instantly repudiate it and post the original piece everywhere I could. As the editors are surely aware. The Mittani? I thought it was The Ego.
Well then you've already learned something new today MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1971
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
Care to put the article here so we are not forced to visit that trash website?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
362
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote: You can argue all you want about sandbox but if they wanted you to pvp in hi-sec they would not have Concord at all. Think about it.
If they didn't want you to pvp in high sec they would have disallowed agression, think about it. 
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2100
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:As the author of the piece, I'm quite happy to publish on TheMittani, because I'm confident that there will not be any editorial interference concerning the theme and conclusions of my pieces, and I would recommend anyone who feels the urge to write something more substantial than an evanescent forum post to do the same. In the event that I submitted an article which was substantially changed by the editors, I'd instantly repudiate it and post the original piece everywhere I could. As the editors are surely aware.
Since your piece was "on message" the editors let it through. And since you didn't publish elsewhere and have your article syndicated, people must read it on that site, driving up page views, putting other articles in front of curious eyes, ensuring that the rest of the message gets received.
See, propaganda can work even without the assistance of the writers.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5188
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:46:00 -
[100] - Quote
What "message" do you think I was "on"? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5188
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Care to put the article here so we are not forced to visit that trash website?
That would be rather disrespectful. Also, your request is nonsensical; by definition if the article is worth reading, the website isn't trash. I suggest you put your silly prejudices away and read it, since the article is very relevant to you. Also you're doing yourself a disservice, since most of the articles on TM are rather good in my opinion.
EDIT: You can use adblocker to remove the banner if the name really irks you so badly. But growing up and realising that you're over-reacting might serve better. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
266
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
Oh please OP, you can't compare EA's DICE with CCP, CCP actually you know...cares about their audience about 10 times more. EA DICE "promised" to deliver a game that's better than BF2/2142 w/mods but what we got was a generic "cod-ified" fps with a low skill ceiling. -3d spotting -very small maps for run n gun(or rather spray and pray) -overpowered lockon weapons that lets solo engineers win vs tanks 1v1( i was in top 3% for tanks) -no commander -small squads -no VOIP(seriously...) -suppression that makes your bullets go everywhere BUT the target -metro map(oh god the horrible corridor) that was "the most played" - full kit/vehicle/everything unlocks with $$$$
So as you can see....CCP are so much better than DICE and you are just overreacting. It's not as if the upcoming expansion lets you buy an additional highslot with $ for a DD or something.
The difference is that BF3 was targeted at the "new*coughcodcough" audience and old players were lied to with a straight face. It's not like CCP promised to make a game as you imagined it to be and then released a poor version of it.
Eve isn't getting dumbed down as much as BF3, it's just getting more appealing to new players by looking less confusing. Core mechanics are still the same as when I started in 2007(well, mostly :P).
What upcoming changes are you actually worried about ? Tyvm for providing the link, Im glad that mordor is still alive and well. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |

StuRyan
UK Space Marines
45
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:17:00 -
[103] - Quote
It isn't very often that i agree with the Mitanni, but i have to take my hat off... Well written and i enjoyed reading it throughout.
We kill well or die laughing * UK PVP CORP RECRUITING * Please join AHREC |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5189
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Oh please OP, you can't compare EA's DICE with CCP, CCP actually you know...cares about their audience about 10 times more. EA DICE "promised" to deliver a game that's better than BF2/2142 w/mods but what we got was a generic "cod-ified" fps with a low skill ceiling. -3d spotting -very small maps for run n gun(or rather spray and pray) -overpowered lockon weapons that lets solo engineers win vs tanks 1v1( i was in top 3% for tanks) -no commander -small squads -no VOIP(seriously...) -suppression that makes your bullets go everywhere BUT the target -metro map(oh god the horrible corridor) that was "the most played" - full kit/vehicle/everything unlocks with $$$$
So as you can see....CCP are so much better than DICE and you are just overreacting. It's not as if the upcoming expansion lets you buy an additional highslot with $ for a DD or something.
The difference is that BF3 was targeted at the "new*coughcodcough" audience and old players were lied to with a straight face. It's not like CCP promised to make a game as you imagined it to be and then released a poor version of it.
Eve isn't getting dumbed down as much as BF3, it's just getting more appealing to new players by looking less confusing. Core mechanics are still the same as when I started in 2007(well, mostly :P).
What upcoming changes are you actually worried about ? Tyvm for providing the link, Im glad that mordor is still alive and well.
Erm, I think you read a different piece than the one I intended. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Ghazu
286
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:22:00 -
[105] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:It isn't very often that i agree with the Mitanni, but i have to take my hat off... Well written and i enjoyed reading it throughout.
Did you missed the part on who wrote it? http://www.minerbumping.com/ |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10400
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 13:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Except that by saying GÇ£this is how EVE works, and if you want to play it, you need to consider this fundamental design decisionGÇ¥ you are indeed saying how the game is meant to be played. No. I'm only saying that there is a constraint to how you can choose to play it. Again, it's no different than how The Sims' lack of a first person camera makes it a poor choice for some FPS action. This tells us nothing about how the game is GÇ£meant to be playedGÇ¥ GÇö you are free to play it as PsychoHorrorSim 3000Gäó, as an automated version of Big Brother, hell, even as a family simulator if you're so inclined. Constraints are not the same thing as dictations. EVE's constraint is GÇ£there is no PvP switchGÇ¥ (and GÇ£you can't fit a doomsday device on your MerlinGÇ¥) GÇö the only thing that is GÇ£meantGÇ¥ by this is that you get to play within those constraints. How you choose to make use of the tools at your disposal is up to you.
Quote:The example of the miner being an extreme example but certainly possible. He chooses to mine but can't undock without being suicide ganked. So what can he do? Hire mercs? Try and fight back? Change stations. Keep doing what he's doing.
Quote:It's not beyond anyone's control if they have the isk (or rather the willingness to lose isk) and manpower. ISK and manpower doesn't help against GM actions. What your SoE arc example misses is the critical detail that those pilots did not disallow any gameplay, nor did they keep anyone out of the game. That's why their actions were allowed, why your locked-in miner example is drastically different, and why what you're talking about will get you tossed out on your ears no matter how much ISK or manpower you try to throw at the problem.
Quote:UFC, boxing, hockey, soccer, foot ball. All fine examples of real world pvp. Some kid pushing around a smaller (most likely lower grade) kid at school. A fine example of bullying. GǪand it's still PvP since he's still a player and he actively chose to fight in that way.
Quote:You say that you assume the risks when you log in but I say you only assume such risks when you enter .4 or lower sec space. And what you say is meaningless since CCP and the game mechanics say you're wrong. The reasoning being the following:
Go into highsec. Lock onto a target. Press F1. Notice that you are now fighting the other player and nothing stopped you along the way. As soon as you log in, you are at risk of being screwed over by other players (PvP), and you don't even have to leave the station to have it happen.
Highsec is all about PvP GÇö if it weren't, it simply wouldn't be allowed. CCP has gone to extreme length to allow for combat in highsec GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5190
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 13:39:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Highsec is all about PvP GÇö if it weren't, it simply wouldn't be allowed. CCP has gone to extreme length to allow for combat in highsec
IIRC, they specifically addressed this point in the Crimewatch presentation at FanFest this year. It was remarked that it would be hugely simpler for them to simply disallow GCC actions in hi-sec.
It's funny how people forget that many "criminal" actions aren't GCC triggers. Awoxing and corp theft spring to mind immediately, as does the lately topical tactic of bumping. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
268
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Erm, I think you read a different piece than the one I intended.
Yeah, i have honestly no idea how it happened unless i just took so long to write all this that by the time i submitted the post the thread got moved and put me in another one XD. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5190
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:22:00 -
[109] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Malcanis wrote: Erm, I think you read a different piece than the one I intended.
Yeah, i have honestly no idea how it happened unless i just took so long to write all this that by the time i submitted the post the thread got moved and put me in another one XD.
I'll let you off if you read mine too (<-- authorial vanity!) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
269
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:43:00 -
[110] - Quote
It was a good read, im surprised :P. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1037
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What "message" do you think I was "on"? You failed to explicitly accuse Mittens and Goonswarm of literally killing and eating babies in real life, therefore you're A STOOGE AND PUPPET Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5195
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:59:00 -
[112] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Malcanis wrote:What "message" do you think I was "on"? You failed to explicitly accuse Mittens and Goonswarm of literally killing and eating babies in real life, therefore you're A STOOGE AND PUPPET
Oh, that.
Yes well. The Technetium swimming pool doesn't fill itself, you know.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5195
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:59:00 -
[113] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:It was a good read, im surprised :P.
 MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
270
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 15:02:00 -
[114] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kiteo Hatto wrote:It was a good read, im surprised :P.  Ok, it was a GREAT read considering its on there :P, i just don't care about drama and politics hence im so indifferent towards it but i like how you nailed the reality of what's happening. Also, the first couple of comments on there describe how i feel :). "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5199
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 15:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Good read, Malcanis. Thanks for sharing it.
I just hope it doesn't spoil your fun in the future
(I'm confident it won't) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Devil's Call
Omega Legion XIII
805
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 16:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Nice. |

Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
575
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What "message" do you think I was "on"?
Mara Rinn is of the school of "literally everything about TM.com serves no purpose other than to advance the cause of the CFC with no exception". Trouble is, your article didn't strongly lean towards any one side of any imagined conflict. This leaves her at a loss of words to fit your article into that narrative, so she's asking you to give her one instead (she asked me what "agenda" the article was pushing on Twitter as well). |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5205
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:36:00 -
[118] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Malcanis wrote:What "message" do you think I was "on"? Mara Rinn is of the school of "literally everything about TM.com serves no purpose other than to advance the cause of the CFC with no exception". Trouble is, your article didn't strongly lean towards any one side of any imagined conflict. This leaves her at a loss of words to fit your article into that narrative, so she's asking you to give her one instead (she asked me what "agenda" the article was pushing on Twitter as well).
Well can't she just make something up? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
2030
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Malcanis, this was an excellent read. Kudos for putting into words what many of us feel. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5205
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:39:00 -
[120] - Quote
Also, how do articles about Planetside, Mechwarrior or WoT advance the CFC? Or am I being naive here? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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