last year, a new tier of battlecruiser came into the game.

Since then, even tho the insurance was removed for pilot who were destroyed by concord, we've seen a big raise in freighter ganking. (see full story in the crime & punishment board)

It is now possible, with some skilled pilot, to destroy a freighter with 5 skilled pilot with those new battlecruiser.

Of course, this require a great amount of technic and skill.

So, we think that now that we have perfected the courier via freighter on big scale, and then that some other corp perfected the method of killing them without much loss, it's time for the industrialist to have a new toy.

We discussed a lot on our internal channel about what such a freighter might be. Bigger shield/armor? Low slot? Faster align? It should be better then a regular freighter, and require more skill (different from JF). We just ask a way to counter those kill.

There is, of course, the use of a webber that can be involved, but not everyone can afford 2 accounts.

Jump Freighter are not the solution, they are not designed that way.

ur the guy who wanted the sec status of gank hot spots increased...so ur serious??

u could just avoid them, use scouts or follow ur freighter with logi friends/alts.

if not, u could always transport less each time or otherwise reduce the value of ur cargo.

last year, a new tier of battlecruiser came into the game.

Since then, even tho the insurance was removed for pilot who were destroyed by concord, we've seen a big raise in freighter ganking. (see full story in the crime & punishment board)

It is now possible, with some skilled pilot, to destroy a freighter with 5 skilled pilot with those new battlecruiser.

Of course, this require a great amount of technic and skill.

So, we think that now that we have perfected the courier via freighter on big scale, and then that some other corp perfected the method of killing them without much loss, it's time for the industrialist to have a new toy.

We discussed a lot on our internal channel about what such a freighter might be. Bigger shield/armor? Low slot? Faster align? It should be better then a regular freighter, and require more skill (different from JF). We just ask a way to counter those kill.

There is, of course, the use of a webber that can be involved, but not everyone can afford 2 accounts.

Jump Freighter are not the solution, they are not designed that way.

I though this would come up.

we've lost freighter with 300m worth of stuff.. how low you want us to go?

I already said that not everyone can afford a scout.

we should not have to get a scout.

Freighter were made to be able to transport a whole lot of stuff. if anyone can gank them easely, what's the use?

You're assuming that the gank was made for profit reasons. Sometimes it can be to send a message (which can have wider effects). Or maybe IT IS for profit and gankers are simply getting paid by another entity behind the scenes.


"Tactical tradeoffs." You want to be safer? Get a scout. You can't afford one? Then you have to make a risk assessment on whether or not you think you can make it unmolested.


What makes you so special that you should not need a scout?

Even PvP pilots are called "idiots" for moving battleships or capitals without a scout or escort.


You make it sound like they have no use now that people have realized that ganking a freighter can be done efficiently. This is not the case. They can still do their job... it is you, the player, who must adjust... not the game.


Also... the Teir 3 battlecruisers may be able to pump out more DPS (and thus require fewer numbers to perform a gank) than the old gank ships of choice... but they are also more expensive. Overall... the cost of suicide ganking has not increased or decreased by all that much.
The only thing that has happened is that the people doing it are more visible than before.

you dont need 2 accounts yourself, maybe its just a matter of hiring another corpy to scout for you. And charging a bit extra for freighter services or paying someone to help guard you. Perhaps hire command ships or command T3's to boost your defenses?

I whole heartedly understand it is annoying and troublesome. But realize they are working as a group in some way to kill you, so doesn't it make sense that you will have to work as a group to counter it?

hmm, we charge 500k a jump.

with blue frog (which uses scout and webber) we charge at least 3x that.

so, you're telling me we should charge 1.5-2m per jump minimum by hiring scout and webber all the time?

i'm pretty sure even goons wouldn't like that price hike to move their ship/loot to/from Uedama.

wow 500k a jump? It would take over 2k jumps to pay off a ship...yall are selling yourselves short.

Very good point. At what point does operating on such small margins become the reason for what seems to be unrelated failures?

Something as valuable as a loaded freighter, should never even undock without an escort of some sort. An alt that can web and provide some defensive fleet bonuses doesn't take all that much training. You are losing ships because you are cutting corners on security.

I can see the need for a mini freighter. I can see that it would be a nice addition.

Just a few things to take into account.

Chances are, it wouldn't hold much more than 200,000m3.
I believe it's EHP, wouldn't be much higher than current freighters and may even be lower.
You would still get ganked.

Given the decreasing cost of alpha damage (ie: tier 3 battlecruisers) it makes sense for the rest of the universe to adapt.

It seems reasonable for either another tech II freighter that is EHP focused with somewhat less hauling capacity (75% of base?). Or another tier of frieghter that has higher EHP at the expense of capacity (50% - 60% of base?)

why should it be one at the expense of another, if more skill are required? are tier 3 BC less effective in any ways then the tier 2?

- modulable cargo bay, based on the Orca, that you could resize. (ship/corp/regular hangar) (not sure if the current tech could allow this)

Since Tech 2 stuff is suppose to be specialized, how about a Tech 3 Orca like ship. Have cargo subsystems to add how much and which types of cargo bays you want, or even offensive or defensive buffs.

A tier 2 freighter could have or do many things, and since it would require more skill, it should be better then a tier 1 freighter. not another version with less cargo and more armor. the same way other type of ship tier works.

It seems reasonable for either another tech II freighter that is EHP focused with somewhat less hauling capacity (75% of base?). Or another tier of frieghter that has higher EHP at the expense of capacity (50% - 60% of base?)

I though this would come up.

we've lost freighter with 300m worth of stuff.. how low you want us to go?

I already said that not everyone can afford a scout. we should not have to get a scout. Freighter were made to be able to transport a whole lot of stuff. if anyone can gank them easely, what's the use?

we've lost freighter with 300m worth of stuff..

that's already in place, it's the Orca.

and yes, of course, a new ship would still be gankable, just as the JF is gankable. we don't want to be ingankable, we want more options, just like everyone else.

The Orca can have a 80,761 m3 cargo hold, plus it's 40,000m3 corp hanger.

So it's cargo capacity is 120,761 m3, plus a 50k m3 Ore. So no, that isn't already in place.

No, it's cargo capacity is 80,761m3 plus 40,000m3 plus 50,000m3. This distinction is important, because you cannot carry any item that is larger than 80,761m3.

Freighters do need to have their ehp adjusted, since they were balanced around Battleship-ganking costs. Whether this is strictly an actual addition or the addition of a low slot (for a DCU), either would suffice.

A tier 2 freighter could have or do many things, and since it would require more skill, it should be better then a tier 1 freighter. not another version with less cargo and more armor. the same way other type of ship tier works.

Got a link to this?

That would mean that the current freighters need to be nerfed, since the costs of ganking one have increased.

Before, a bunch of insured BS would make it a very low cost (even a direct gain during periods when miners were particularly stupid). These days, even with tier-3 BCs, the costs are much higher since it's a total loss when you attack something. So if the EHP should be adjusted to fit this new ganking cost, the EHP would go down. Fortunately, cost is not a balancing issue so we won't see that kind of nerf to freighters.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15253634

sucessfully warped from uedama, but got caught in the next system.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15158390

that's another one (mine) with 500m.

it actually went down a little. you can gank with 5 tier 3 BC, which come with a cost of about 500-600m. compared to 9-10 BS before, with insurance, that was about 600-700m at the time (when price were a bit lower)

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15253634

sucessfully warped from uedama, but got caught in the next system.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15158390

that's another one (mine) with 500m.

we've had at least 12 others in the last 4 months under 1b.

you guys don't know how scanning and killmail work now, do you?

Tippia: it was around 400m at the time of trit at 3 isk pu. but that didn't stay long, anyway the game was almost dead at that time, thanks to WIS.

why are you implying something hidden then?

I though this would come up.

we've lost freighter with 300m worth of stuff.. how low you want us to go?

I already said that not everyone can afford a scout. we should not have to get a scout. Freighter were made to be able to transport a whole lot of stuff. if anyone can gank them easely, what's the use?

No, it's cargo capacity is 80,761m3 plus 40,000m3 plus 50,000m3. This distinction is important, because you cannot carry any item that is larger than 80,761m3.

I'm not. The killmail is.

where?

it shows the wrap and everything inside it that droped.

GǪor it shows the junk you had in your hold, among which was a double-wrap that they wanted to bet on.

the wrap you see is the wrap that contained all the items you see that droped with it.

[GǪ]

also, since the last inventory change, the first layer of container is never shown.

GǪwhich leaves a fourth option to get confused by: wrap in container.

So no, at any point there is a wrap in a KM, there is ambiguity to what the gankers saw and what the full value of the haul actually is. You may say that you don't double-wrap or put X in Y, but the KM doesn't tell the full story and the wrap immediately hints at the gankers betting on a bit of luck. You are making assumptions about perfect information for all parties involved, and that's just foolish.

You may be standing still, but that's just how it is. I can't explain it any clearer to you.

So what you're saying is, you're complaining about some ROL guys using at a minimum 945m isk in hulls alone, let alone the T2 mods required, to gank what was a freighter which may or may not have been carrying cargo worth as little as 500m (no, I'm not going to go calculating each and every single item on there to verify the killboard's values are sane).

In short, a newbie ganking team used more ships than they needed, to gank something which won't even cover half of their investment, and this is worth whining about.

Welp, I guess we're due for a mining barge-style buff to freighters soon, then.

I'm really not complaining about anything here. someone else brought the "keep your cargo value low and you wont be ganked"

I just think it would be nice to have a new tier of freighter. :)

I'm not really sure where you get your information, but the KM cannot be clearer then that.

What are you not understanding here?

I'm really not complaining about anything here. someone else brought the "keep your cargo value low and you wont be ganked"

well, why would everyone in this game get new ships once in a while but us?

I already said that not everyone can afford a scout. we should not have to get a scout.

Jump freighters have more EHP, but hold less cargohold. Why can't they be the solution?

Can we please, for the next few post, get back to the Original idea of this thread, which was : Could we get a new tier of freighters, maybe 2, specialised in some ways, or just better version, or whatever the consensus?

So let's assume CCP give you a freighter with 500k m3 and 5 million HP, and you still get ganked, then what? "CCP, disallow aggression in hisec, it is unacceptable that we can't haul x billion isk worth in safety!"?

I though this would come up.

we've lost freighter with 300m worth of stuff.. how low you want us to go?

I already said that not everyone can afford a scout. we should not have to get a scout. Freighter were made to be able to transport a whole lot of stuff. if anyone can gank them easely, what's the use?

Because they are a 7 Billion ISK addition (plus cargo) to a killboard. That alone is worth shooting, if your killboard stats are looking a bit dodgy for the month.

Jump freighters have more EHP, but hold less cargohold. Why can't they be the solution?

[quote=Red Frog Rufen]



I lol'd. It takes 5 guys working together, according to you, to gank a freighter, and yet it's ridiculous to expect you to work with even one other person as an escort for defense? As far as I'm concerned, if you can defend yourself properly with 4 escort pilots per freighter, then the manpower is about correctly balanced with 5 people required to gank you.

And I'm fairly confident that with 4 scouts/logi ships following you around, you'd see a dramatic decrease in freighter losses.....

300k m3 freighter, 5 million ehp. You'd still whine if you got ganked.

you've put in good suggestions that I didn't quote.

but for your last part, a gank happens usually in less then 12 seconds. no logi can rep enough in 12 seconds to make a difference. that could work for low-sec transport tho!

where do you see me whine about getting ganked?

Did you even read the topic?

ganking is part of this game. I don't care about it.

I just want more freighters options.

Let's see what you have in the shape of choice today:
You have freighters: lots of room, a fair bit of EHP.
You have JFs, more than twice the EHP and a third the cargospace.
You have orcas, which can be setup to contain slightly more EHP than a freighter for significantly less cargospace.

Apparently this isn't enough, because you're complaining about how ganking freighters is on the rise, and as proof you showed a killmail with what is estimated as more than 500m isk loss for the gankers even though everything in the freighter dropped, and you're dismissing the JF even though it is better than a regular freighter in countering those kills because ... it's not "designed that way". vOv

I'm getting really tired of pointing this out to you people. It should be pretty obvious.

A good small freighter will not have greater training requirements than a large freighter, and it will be substantially cheaper and more agile. Neither Orca nor Jump Freighter even come close to this.

A good tough freighter can cost more and have a longer training time than a standard large freighter, but it needs a similar cargo space. The Jump Freighter doesn't match up there, and the Orca is a far cry from it.

Let's see what you have in the shape of choice today:
You have freighters: lots of room, a fair bit of EHP.
You have JFs, more than twice the EHP and a third the cargospace.
You have orcas, which can be setup to contain slightly more EHP than a freighter for significantly less cargospace.

Apparently this isn't enough, because you're complaining about how ganking freighters is on the rise, and as proof you showed a killmail with what is estimated as more than 500m isk loss for the gankers even though everything in the freighter dropped, and you're dismissing the JF even though it is better than a regular freighter in countering those kills because ... it's not "designed that way". vOv

I dont think CCP should add ships with no fitting options, its anti-game. And imagine how many they would have to add to fulfil every niche and pilot requirements. The proper way to do it is fewer ships but with greater customiziability, and a mini freighter with fits is not such a bad idea. However i think making the current freighters fittable instead would be a much better solution, because if a fittable freighter is added it will end up obsoleting the current one, and if not people will require the current ones be fittable as anyway

However CCP tends to choose the path of least resistance, and if they ever do something about the hauling situation it will most likely be a mini freighter. It will probably be a welcome change, but it will just make the current freighter look even worse. Might as well get it right from the beginning and make the current ones fittable

Check the freighter fits thread

This.

You already have choices, use them.

T3 BCs have very small tanks, and don't have drones (Talos excepted).

Having said that, I would love to see a new freighter.

GǪor it shows the junk you had in your hold, among which was a double-wrap that they wanted to bet on.

For each of the factions a sub-cap freighter/military transport that allows refits in space, a healthy maintenance bay, and cargo room for enough sandwiches and ammo to keep a small fleet operating all weekend would be a good role to fill.

It's not a suggestion without merit.

why do you keep bringing up jump freighter, a 7.5b ship that required 5 months of training just to fly it, a good alternative to freighter?

why not a tier 2 with the stat of the JF without the jump drive? that would be a start (maybe more cargo too..)

Um...tech2 would not solve any of your complaints at all... let's use frigates as an analogy.

Tech 1frigates take like... a day to train.
Tech 2 frigates take about a month and a half to train.

Tech 1 frigates cost about 500,000 isk maximum.
Tech 2 frigates cost around 12,000,000 isk or so.

If we were to apply these same ratios to a tech 2 freighter, it would require many months of training to fly one, and it would cost around 20 billion isk. In other words, as bad or much worse than the requirements for a a jump freighter.

Again, you seem to want a bunch of buffs without paying the same price for them that every other type of player pays for buffed ships.

Now theres a mining frigate thats practically worthless thats coming in the next patch

yes I don't enjoy the game anymore as a miner/industry/manufacturer so I switched to ratting in annom's (null sec) and pvp and guess what I earn more isk doing that then I ever did mining high ends moving them to highsec and selling them.

suppose the industry/mining/building careers are a waste of time these days...

removing local from null will be the end to carebearing in null yes. now miners will actually have to work together with scouts and combat pilots in order to get the juiciest of ores. if u dnt like it, come back to hi-sec where u belong.

You mean like literally everyone's done even before local's removed?

Yes, we've figured that out, and so has the rest of the game's population. It's a large part of the reason why nullsec sucks these days (another reason is the sov system, but eh).

What do you mean, "super nerf to mining"? You mean beyond making it even dumber than it is today because you have to expend even more effort to get less in return than you would get from mining scordite etc in hisec?

I dunno, it's hard to say.

What makes you so special that you should not need a scout?

Even PvP pilots are called "idiots" for moving battleships or capitals without a scout or escort.

In hisec? So you stating that pvp pilot moving t2 fitted typhoon trough hisec without scout on peace time is idiot? And btw capitals cant enter hisec. Thats what we talking about here. Hisec and suicide ganks. Not low. Not null. Not w-space.

+1 for the freighter buff. Ive made similar thread earlier stating that new suicide ganking tier 3 bc's are problem for freighters and thats why freighters EHP should be buffed or they should get fitting options like DCU..

In nullsec, every ship will get shot upon if it can be killed without them dying (and tons of times, even if they die in the process because the killmail makes it worth it). In hisec, a t2 fit BS might as well not even exist. A freighter with several billions in its hold, however, does.

And as for being able to fit a DCU, you can be guaranteed that some idiot will go "OH HEY LOOK I CAN FIT A CARGOHOLD EXPANDER AND CARRY MORE", which means they'll suddenly be able to carry capitals in their hold, which in turn means CCP will have to nerf the standard freighter's cargohold to compensate or just exclude cargomods, in which case CCP might as well just buff the base HP figures and be done with it.

Which still won't stop people from bitching about how they can't haul cargo from one end of the universe to the other while being AFK because they're still getting ganked.

But anyways original point was that freighters are too easy to suicide gank in hisec atm with t3 bc's. And thats why freighters need somekinda buff to compensate those big guns from tier 3 bc's. I dont really care is it ehp buff or fitting dcu buff aslong its a buff

Suicide ganking freigters is just fine with me aslong its more than 5 billions in freighters cargo. What im worried about is these low value transports getting suicide ganked because its so easy and cheap task to do with t3 bc's.

People keep harping on about how "tier 3 BCs make it too easy", and they forget that before they were introduced, tier 2 BSes were used with just as many guns, and it cost less.

Oh, and in case you haven't figured it out yet, CCP are turning the niarja/uedama gates into vigilante heaven on dec 4th, with the launch of crimewatch 2.0. So if you want to do your bit to stop gankers from ganking freighters, just show up on those gates and wait for someone to turn/be turned into suspects, and go to town. vOv

Of course, I still expect people to not step up sufficiently, or at the very least to keep whining about how it's too easy, even though we're looking at the coordination of a lot of people to pull off a single gank.

People keep harping on about how "tier 3 BCs make it too easy", and they forget that before they were introduced, tier 2 BSes were used with just as many guns, and it cost less.

Oh, and in case you haven't figured it out yet, CCP are turning the niarja/uedama gates into vigilante heaven on dec 4th, with the launch of crimewatch 2.0. So if you want to do your bit to stop gankers from ganking freighters, just show up on those gates and wait for someone to turn/be turned into suspects, and go to town. vOv

Of course, I still expect people to not step up sufficiently, or at the very least to keep whining about how it's too easy, even though we're looking at the coordination of a lot of people to pull off a single gank.

The thing is 8 gun bs's cost alot more than tier 3 bc's. Tier 3 bc cost 70mil. Maelstrom for example costs 215mil.

Tempests were used before, not maelstroms, and if you remember the whole deal with suicide ganking removing the insurance, you'll see that the prices increased overall.

[
Daichi wrote that "in eve even pvp pilots are idiots if they move bs's without scouting" and my post was answer to him. But anyways original point was that freighters are too easy to suicide gank in hisec atm with t3 bc's. And thats why freighters need somekinda buff to compensate those big guns from tier 3 bc's. I dont really care is it ehp buff or fitting dcu buff aslong its a buff.

Suicide ganking freigters is just fine with me aslong its more than 5 billions in freighters cargo. What im worried about is these low value transports getting suicide ganked because its so easy and cheap task to do with t3 bc's.

tier 2 BS with the same guns, at the time: approx 150m (with premium), you needed 9-10 to gank a freighter. you got 72m back from insurance if you paid your premium.

tier 3 BC with the same guns, now, approx 90-100m, but you only need 5, maybe 6.

and TEST are now organising tears event, with 40 pilots in catalyst. it cost them 100m to gank some freighter last weekend. granted it's not that easy to coordinate 40 pilots, but tell me this is balanced?

if it's not that easy, how come 6-7 alliances are doing about 100 freighters ganks per weekends now?

lol that wasnt me!

there is another thread that asked about adding slots to freighters, and he got similar responses.
cargo expanders on freighters will allow them to carry caps into high sec. putting a DC on a freighter is a ridiculous amount of tank. if slots were added to freighters these base stats would need to be nerfed so that a highly specialised (either fit for all capacity or all tank) could not exceed 1mil m3 capacity or so much tank that they'd be ungankable. such would be a massive nerf to freighters.

especially seeing as a DC has to be activated after every jump, an end to afk hauling

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2233308#post2233308 other thread (eve browser wont let me create link)

edit...trolled by eve forums and browser

tier 2 BS with the same guns, at the time: approx 150m (with premium), you needed 9-10 to gank a freighter. you got 72m back from insurance if you paid your premium.

So I did some perusing through the eve-kill records. The first freighter I found was on page 32, it was a lowsec kill. The second was on page 42, a wormhole kill. The third, and also the first hisec kill, was on page 51. 4 dominixes, 1 typhoon, 1 talos, 1 armageddon, by brick squad (18 freighters in 28 days). Another lowsec on page 54, then another uedama kill on page 55, 3 talos 3 oracle 2 brutix, by goons (148 freighters in 28 days). Page 63, a lowsec freighter, and a niarja freighter (6 talos 1 oracle 1 brutix), goonswarm. Page 69, another uedama kill, 4 talos 3 brutix 1 catalyst. goonswarm. Page 80, another uedama kill, 4 talos 2 brutix 3 catalyst, goonswarm. Page 100, a niarja kill. 8 talos 1 oracle, ev0ke (a staggering 5 freighters killed in 28 days).

So out of 550 kills the last 24 hours, 2 lowsec freighters, one wormhole freighters and 6 hisec freighters. So, 1.09% of the kills the last 20-24 hours or so are hisec freighters. Oh dear so sad.

Yea sorry looks like i messed up with quoting. It was guy called "ShahFluffers".

But to stuff you wrote. CCP could modify freighters so they cant fit cargoexpanders. DCU activation on other hand if im running some valuable stuff i might not wanna do it afk anyways. And if im running afk with empty cargo or something very low value. DC shouldnt matter. Atleast i wouldnt mind if i had to come back afk with empty freighter without dcu. I reckon it would only be problem for those that likes to move semi high value/high value stuff afk. That other thread had some good ideas aswell like passive hull resist mod. Maybe just ehp buff. Ive heard someone talking about creating power creep but tbh i cant see how that could happen with hauler that usually operates in hisec and dont have guns and cant fit modules. And it still would be gankable. Just give that much more ehp that gankers would need to bring like 5 more tier 3 bc for example.

I looked eve kill bit aswell. Only quickly peeked in to big kills tab and it says 11 freighters ganked during tuesday. 3 freighters ganked during wendsday. There was few low sec freighters aswell but i didnt count jump freighters. But what worries me most is that 2 first kills i checked had only 2 billion worth stuff in cargo. And this is problem here imho. If its worthwhile to gank 2bil freighters it nis too easy..

are u trolling? or do u think 2bil is actually a reasonable amount to carry?

if it's not that easy, how come 6-7 alliances are doing about 100 freighters ganks per weekends now?

if 500 mil of gankers can take a freighter, then u shouldnt carry much more than 500mil. carrying 2 bil in a freighter is quite foolish.

and are u saying that freighters should carry 4-6 bil of assets without being profitable to gank? cause thats incredible. thats something like 60 talos's, so no.

u need to reduce the amount u carry, drastically, by the looks of things.

Exactly. OR add another 300 million in the number of gankers required by having a logi ship or similar follow you around, and then carry not much more than 800 million, etc.

Soo...what's the point of a freighter if you're only taking up 1/10th the cargo space because you're afraid of getting ganked? Am I missing something or should someone feel safe transporting a capital-class ship through hi-sec without the fear of loosing it to a few BC?

ur missing something. u shouldnt be safe in a titan in high sec. high sec is NOT safe, it is only 'relatively' safe to low and null sec.

and what kind of things do u carry? cause i fill my freighters and they only carry 600mil, if even that.

Soo...what's the point of a freighter if you're only taking up 1/10th the cargo space because you're afraid of getting ganked? Am I missing something or should someone feel safe transporting a capital-class ship through hi-sec without the fear of loosing it to a few BC?

I get that Hi-sec doesn't mean safe, I just mean to kill a capital-class ship, you should need more then a handful BC considering that a Freighter costs somewhere in the range of 1.4Bil all by itself, before even counting cargo.

So out of 550 kills the last 24 hours, 2 lowsec freighters, one wormhole freighters and 6 hisec freighters. So, 1.09% of the kills the last 20-24 hours or so are hisec freighters. Oh dear so sad.

if 500 mil of gankers can take a freighter, then u shouldnt carry much more than 500mil. carrying 2 bil in a freighter is quite foolish.

and are u saying that freighters should carry 4-6 bil of assets without being profitable to gank? cause thats incredible. thats something like 60 talos's, so no.

u need to reduce the amount u carry, drastically, by the looks of things.

Freighter pilot always lose more even with empty cargo...

I'm sure we killed a freighter with 150 frigates during burn jita as well.

I guess that's also overpowered.

u dnt get insurance pay outs when u've been bawssed by concord

Hurr I ****** up, it's not 550 kills the last 20-24 hours, it's 5000. so 0.12% of the total kills is the correct number.

i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

So there's 10 people spending their time and their money to gank something which needs to carry around 2b to reliably break even. What's wrong with that? It's 10 people spending their time in one out of two systems, providing 0.12% of the kills in all of EVE pr 24 hours (actually it's probably less, since I don't think I counted more than a 20 hour period today), why are these 0.12% of kills so special they need to be looked at so bad by CCP?

i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

i did show u a bit of the math to show how it would work, but if ur going to be that ignorant then screw it. dnt do anything and continue to do what u do the way u do.

and btw, no talos does 3000dps. when ur this stubborn and narrow minded, im amazed uve lasted in eve this long.

Lord Zim: which part of my post in this page did you not get?

You're claiming there's a huge need for a new freighter because the ganking is out of control. I'm pointing out just how small a fraction of the ships killed monthly and daily it takes before you're whining about how it's out of control.

Don't like the stats? Tough noogies.

what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD_Details

19 seconds...tho its not 100% consistent. and eve uni points to 19 seconds until the 'first felt action' of concord...so things can go on a little longer.
it appears a talos like this can do 1640 dps and 6389 alpha...thats still not 3000dps and like ive said, u dnt have to rep faster than the incoming dps to save the freighter, just make it last long enough for concord to arrive

u dnt need a new toy. u need logi

what? where?

I pointed out that there is now a new BC that give the gankers a new edge.

then I asked if we, the poor freighters (haha), could get a new toy too.

in which case the 2-3 spares will get you on the next gates...

hey, let's test this on the test server, and see how it goes.

I keep telling you guys, it'll make no difference. even if it did, that's not why we want new toys. it's not to avoid the gankers. they will always find a way.

but give us something to challenge them a little.

What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking".

Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced.


As a way to "counter those kills", yes.

You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc?


Dock up, rep, continue hauling?

for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.

for your second affirmation, of course that could help.

for your third, where do you dock in Niaja?

for your first affirmation, befaore t3 BC, there was about 1 or 2 frieghter gank per month.

I tried to ask Lord Zim what he believe the maximum value a freighter should carry is but i never got an answer

They are not an upgrade

and logi, and scouts, and webs, and ecm and the choice to haul less per trip or use more freighters at once.

u've come straight to the forums before even trying any of these

Who said anything about the soft limit being as low as 500m?

Except, of course, we have jumpfreighters.

They are not an upgrade

transports are apparently also not an upgrade from normal industrials. vOv

It becomes hard to rep the alpha strikes of ganks.

Im not sure webs was intended to make the haulers insta warp, i mean id like to see an official response from CCP saying that everything is fine since people can just web their freighter with an alt.

Hauling less per trip.. sure, but why havent they made a fittable freighter then?

Dont be dumb

What lord zim apparantly fail to realise is that you dont even have to fill the freighter to the brim before becomming a target for ganks

Ask the guy who suggested it, else feel free to give us your estimate

Iteron Mark V. Less requirements, substantially cheaper, more agile. At the cost of cargohold.