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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.06 20:30:00 -
[31]
"Trade profit became unbalanced the second the pirates left. People immediately jumped into their industrials, spent every isk they had loading up and began hauling goods like no end. Why? Because the npc pirates at the gate can't even stop a reaper on autopilot."
Yup. It'd really make the game some good to get rid of those security guns in the low ( 0.5 and less) security sectors... Make the police warp in there and try to sort things out if there's trouble (the lower the security level, the longer the delay before they do) but the way it is now it's quite an overkill...
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.06 23:56:00 -
[32]
They really do need to nerf the trade routes.... I mean common, what's the purpose of lower security systems if even thought it's a .4 or .5 nobody can kill you or the cops will kill him!? Plus gate pirates are so easy that I sneeze and they blow up...
That's not right. The current system contradicts the whole security system idea that was introduced in the first place... and all that why? BECAUSE OF WHINEY CAREBEARS THAT CAN'T GET THEMSELVES AN ESCORT!
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:01:00 -
[33]
Quote from Hyden: Um, if someone pulling 1.1 mil per run is worrying you...I am sorry to inform you that some traders (with the proper financial backing) can pull a wee bit more than that. But they are at risk. Imagine pulling up to a blocade with 50-100 mil in trade goods...lol. Risk vs. reward...
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Blockade? Where? How? We can't blockade anymore that's the whole point! You blockade in empire space = cops after you! The only systems you could blockade in to some point (even even there, cops will still come eventually) is in .3 and bellow systems.... which aren't very numerous in empire space. At least not where a pirate with low security status can go...
That's the whole problem now. Since pirates can't venture anywhere in Empire Space since the last patch... traders have it WAY too easy.
Edit: and by the way, creating corp wars will NOT work because when you are a pireate your security status is usually negative for killing people... which means that even if you are at war with another corp, you still won't be able to go in Empire Space!!!
Edited by: Ehxo on 07/07/2003 00:04:33
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:14:00 -
[34]
YES
It is so rediculous now - whiny noobs making millions from crying.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Starwolf
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:32:00 -
[35]
I've traded quite a bit and can assure you that the best profits are to be made in non-empire space.
I'm not going to be bothered selling things at 5% profit locally or 10% to a different region if I can make 20% by going 5 or 6 extra jumps out in to 0.0 space.
Maybe the pirates will need to learn to look at the market to see where demand is high for products?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:42:00 -
[36]
Lazt, fat gate campers - ironicaly now whinging at lazy fat traders.
Ah the wonders of the galaxy.
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:16:00 -
[37]
A good "gate camper" is far from lazy man, and rarely stays in the sameplace for too long, and moves when the traffic does too. It's not a matter of whining, they just can't seem to balance it right. Before it was too easy for gate campers and pirates, and traders had a hard time.. Now pirate corps are doomed to do boring NPC runs or do blockades in 0.0 systems where no more ships go because it became too easy in Empire space...
They have to find a way to clearly separate each level of security systems, from 1.0 to 0.0. Right the difference is too small. For one, they could make gate pirates a bit tougher... that would be a start.
I unfortunately don't have anything in mind right now as of how to change the system, if I do I'll post it here... I'm still thinking about how they could make it better for everybody.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:29:00 -
[38]
Unfortunately Exho they don't move with the traffic.
There are literally dozens of routes that i nknow of through 0.0 space with far more isk going along htem than in Empire space... no gate guns, no concord - and no pirates.
No far be it from me to suggest that "so-called pirates" are scared away by the prospect of a fight in 0.0 space but...
I've seen one pirate there in the last 7 weeks.
One.
I'm not saying its easy, I happen to know it isn't, but i don't like the double0faced nature of "oh no i cant EASILY get at the golden goose!".
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Rod Stealsly
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:49:00 -
[39]
Two things are wrong with the latest patch:
Highway Gates
Sentry Guns in 0.5 and lower systems
Let me address each in turn.
The Highway gates remove the time element that made trading trade goods a second choice to mining or pirate hunting. It was possible to do better than either of those two activities, but it was more a rare occurance, not a constant. Now, the good runs that were 35 jumps apart, are now within the 10-15 range, making it way too easy to make good money. Altho, I must admit, those runs may dry up very quickly (3-4 days) which in some sense would be self-correcting (most traders don't have the self-control to wait for the really good prices, all about that immediate gratification).
By placing Sentry Guns in all systems in Empire space, the risk of trading has been removed. If you expect the NPCs that gate-camp the gates to take out an industrial before it reaches the gate, then you have never flown an industrial. With no risk, then trading is not balanced with other methods of acquiring ISK. And let's be honest, ISK IS EVE. He who is richest is most powerful.
Some possible solutions:
Remove the Sentry guns from 0.5 and less and make the police respond in those systems. Some of the most heavily policed cities in the world have the highest crime rates in the world. The Empires gave them a low security rating for a reason, either they don't really care what is going on there, the police have been bribed, or whatever, but there should be piracy of varying levels in those systems near the gates.
Turn on random trade reseeding. Part of the ease of trading is knowing that every day after restart there is going to be good prices somewhere in a region. With the random trade reseeding, at least the amount of guarrenteed money is reduced for the "select few" who are able to "camp the respawn." This spreads the wealth among many as opposed to few, and is in some sense a proxy-nerf.
Place all of the really good trade runs near the fringe systems of Empire space. Any system close to the Highway gates should never have one of the really good prices because at the very least other NPCs can supply them (this may happen anyway just due to the way traders trade). But, all of those factories way out in the boonies should be paying premiums (risk, reward).
Anyway, I think this last patch was a step backwards in two areas: pirating and trading. But, the game is not too broken and can be easily fixed.
EDIT - btw, since we all know why the Sentry Guns were added, wouldn't it have just been easier to change Mara and Passari to 0.5 systems and place guns just there instead of reworking the entire system?
Edited by: Rod Stealsly on 07/07/2003 02:28:43 |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.07 03:15:00 -
[40]
"There are literally dozens of routes that i nknow of through 0.0 space with far more isk going along htem than in Empire space... no gate guns, no concord - and no pirates."
Pretty strange it's so quiet then, since it's rather easy to spot those routes on the map with the "Jumps made in last hour" filter on.
You'd think a lawless system with 40 jumps (i.e. one every 1.5 minute) would attract pirates... and there's strings of them across the 0.0 sec space. o.O
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.07 06:12:00 -
[41]
I think there should be something done to balance trade runs with the other money making activities.
Specifically, what makes trade runs unique is the lack of player interaction required. Pirate killing and mining both require interaction. To increase throughput (profit) for pirate hunting or mining, one must also increase interaction.
Trade runs increase in profit based upon available funds and cargo space, not player interaction. If anything with the inclusion of the auto-pilot not stopping anymore when a spatial incursion takes, trading has become easier than ever.
Modification to the profit margin for traders wouldnĘt be fair as mining and pirate hunt can be just as profitable, given the right circumstances.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.07 06:18:00 -
[42]
>>> To increase throughput (profit) for pirate hunting or mining, one must also increase interaction. <<<
If you want to increase throughput (profit) trading you need to mount ABs and train the relevant skills. Then fire the ABs before every gate.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.07 09:17:00 -
[43]
When I pootle around in my Omen doing exploring I frequently pass unescorted industrial ships in 0.0 space. I've even done it myself down in the south-east away from the usual pirate haunts (both before and after the patch). Edit: hauled robotics, not pirated them :-) If one of those is carrying a full load of robotics (just about the highest value easily findable trading commodity as is well known now) then there's up to 35M up for grabs there if it's a big indi. Previously gate camping was an easy way of farming AFK or chatting traders, now pirates actually need to show some initiative to pull in the money.
Someone mentioned that a trader can pull in 30+M in an evening, true, but one successful hit will bring in the same amount and the new trade routes will inevitably collapse within a few days (even if supply/demand remains high the prices will tend to go closer and closer to each other, or even cross in value effectively deleting the route for a long time).
Mining in itself is unlikely to bring in that much, but if you convert those minerals to ships that not everyone is building or have a well researched BP then you can easily match it.
Grab yourself some tasty bookmarks exploring (this is where the really smart money is now, and has been for several weeks) and within a week or so you are basically printing your own money - for NO RISK WHATSOEVER as you can keep copies of the bookmarks safe in your hangar and mass copy them. All you need to do is find sufficient locations that you're not selling the same one twice within a few days.
Personally I think it is pretty balanced as it is. I would like to see fewer super-highway gates as it does shrink the universe massively - not because of the effect it has on trading though. Basically before if I wanted a spaceship I might say well, 7.5M if I go 50 jumps or 8.5M if I buy here - now I very rarely find myself buying something where it's so far away I'm not willing to travel.
Edited by: Athule Snanm on 07/07/2003 11:45:15
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
StarWolfer
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Posted - 2003.07.07 10:56:00 -
[44]
Edited by: StarWolfer on 07/07/2003 11:14:44
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