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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:06:00 -
[1]
Since people are obviously able to earn ca. 1.1 Million ISK each 3-5 jumps in Empire Space without any risk (Bestower with 7k cargo, 10 Millions ISK capital, trade goods), I'd like to ask you to vote if this should be nerfed or not.
Simple yes or not will do it. Feel free to add any comments if you like to.
Edited by: Molly on 06/07/2003 19:52:41
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"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
M0RPHEUS
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:09:00 -
[2]
no! molly darn it....contact me ingame :) i need some cash....
Ask me nicely and I won't pod you... |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:11:00 -
[3]
Spectral Armada members can get some cash from me. By polishing my shoes *winks*.
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"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:13:00 -
[4]
Yesyesyes!
Trading needs nerfing badly! Scrapyard Jack has to travel everywhere with a fleet of nine industrials now, just to carry the ISK he made from last weeks trade runs!
ehehehe!
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:13:00 -
[5]
Nerf them I say, let them feel the economic downturn like the rest of us.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Levi
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:15:00 -
[6]
Very Good Point! Molly
no risk, yet traders reap great reward. that's not right u can't make that much no where else in the game for just doing jumps and safe jumps now too.
maybe put a virus in cargo every so often that eats away at ships hold, 1000 every minute, so cargo disappears and corps can sell them anti-virus protection at ridiculous prices! ;)
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snotty
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:15:00 -
[7]
no risk = no profit,
get that big pink bat out i say
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:17:00 -
[8]
Changes that should immediately be made to trading:
1) Supply and demand should be created for all items in unlimited quantities in every system. The only requirement should be going from one station to another.
2) All "safe items" such as papers and food, should be bought at rates lower than they are sold, so that only volatile cargo such as Plutonium and m0o (er.. livestock) are profitable.. the profit on these items should be a flat 1,000,000 isk per m3 of cargo
3) Volatile cargo should have a 99.9% chance of exploding upon being jostled.. IE when exiting a station or entering warp. The resulting explosion should be no less than 20,000 hp/m3 of material...
I think everyone will agree that the above ner... er.. balancing changes would fix trading right up. I wonder how many people would voluntarily transport exploding cows?
Edited by: Nyrram on 06/07/2003 16:18:22
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Nyrram |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:20:00 -
[9]
"I think everyone will agree that the above ner... er.. balancing changes would fix trading right up."
Oh, yes!
Scrapyard Jack has been researching just this prospect for several weeks now!
Scrapyard Jack has been able to create a truly balanced trade commodity using a cow, a python mine and 3 litres of synthetic oil (Oh, and a rubber glove).
Risk, reward, it has the lot! (although the cow does look a tad uncomfortable)
ehehehe!
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Big Al
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:21:00 -
[10]
What is wrong with you people?
Why can't you add something constructive?
'It is only when your life flashes before your eyes that you realise how much you have missed.'
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Dr Sanara
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:22:00 -
[11]
I really don't think you need to nerf trading at this point, after 2 days of unbelievable profits the market along the highway is in ruins, prices at the buy points have risen dramatically, prices at the sell points have fallen to unheard of levels, and demand has bottomed out. Since thursday the profit for 32k of spirits has fallen from 2.2 million to as low as 300k.
So you don't have to nerf trading, the market's done it for you.
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Daemun Khanid
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:23:00 -
[12]
No, The highway gates don't really have that much effect on trading. It's not like someone trading can sit and do all their buying and selling with 2 jumps of a highway gate. Regardless of how long it takes to get from one region to another you still end up make 10 - 30 jumps throughout the region you're in to find your goods and sell them. 1 mil every 3 jumps???? Please tell me where. I've yet to find a somewhere I can buy OR sell that many units of a product in a single system. You can spend hours trying to sell a full load of cargo jumping from system to system looking for demand. Mining is more profitable, trading is just more involved and in my opinion more entertaining. I would like to see them get rid of the guns and police in 0.5 and below though. It's much more fun to have to worry about making it to each jumpgate without get blown to bits than just gazing at the swarms of cops around all the gates.
VADM. Daemun of Khanid |
Nyrram
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:23:00 -
[13]
Scrapyard, I about wet myself.. hahaha
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Nyrram |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:24:00 -
[14]
We are adding constructive things. Trading is overpowered, 'nuff said.
'It is only when your life flashes before your eyes that you realise (snip! ehehehe!) you're in Passari! omg nooo!.'
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Levi
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:27:00 -
[15]
2.2 million for a couple jumps - that's outrageous, even 300k. takes forever to make that much anywhere else in eve, with no risk involved.
even with more jumps, autopilot and set back and collect isks, it's ridiculous!
ccp should take all the trader's money back, just like my vex BP copies, had a 2 copy run - first was less then a day from completion and now the 2nd would had been well on it's way. (as of late friday)
Nerf Bat! Nerf Bat! Nerf Bat! :P
Edited by: Levi on 06/07/2003 16:28:24
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:28:00 -
[16]
I will not tell you where. My alt is earning money this way now :P.
It's in the same region. Demand and supply for around 4 Millions of profit with one trade good. And I checked it, 3 days seems to be the iteration for a refresh of the demand and supply.
So I can make 4 Millions ISK alone with afk trading in one hour. Try to beat that with mining or something else with same risk (no at all).
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"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Hyden
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:29:00 -
[17]
Um, if someone pulling 1.1 mil per run is worrying you...I am sorry to inform you that some traders (with the proper financial backing) can pull a wee bit more than that. But they are at risk. Imagine pulling up to a blocade with 50-100 mil in trade goods...lol. Risk vs. reward...
Ensign hyden(Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:29:00 -
[18]
i dunno about this, im amking about 10% profit when i trade, although im only hovering about the 2M mark at the moment.
If your expending 10M capital, that 1m Profit is still only 10%, which is a similar profit margin i get when trading goods using a capital of 1 million.
I havent joined a corp yet, and so trading is the only real way i make make money AND get to travel and see the world..sure as hell beats mining for me!
For players like me who have a small group of friends who dont want to join corps until some corp wars begin, nerfing trading will pretty much kill off trading for us.
10% profit is hardly massive is it? I would have thought making 1M profit from a 10M outlay as reasonable, unless a more experience player would like to tell me why it is overpowered??
Mercenary | The Azath |
Jack Hayden
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:30:00 -
[19]
Not sure trading is that good, maybe it's just me. Best I found yet was an intersystem route that made med 1,2 million in about 15 minutes of back and forth.
Else, I mostly get 300,000 for avrage of 8 or so jumps. But remember, getting back and forth finding the routes that spans regions takes time, alot of times sometimes, and when you add that up I belive I could make cash faster sucking plagioclase in high sec system.
But for now, I'll try and learn the tricks of the trade.
Edit: Big Al -> How did you arrive at the conclusing that I steal ore? FYI I got a cruiser to suck ore out of plagioclase roid, then haul it in using my Indy. Before you accuse someone of theft, be sure you got evidence to back it up.
Edited by: Jack Hayden on 06/07/2003 16:40:44
Edited by: Jack Hayden on 06/07/2003 16:45:21
á
"Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
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Big Al
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:33:00 -
[20]
That's funny Jack.
If you trade, you run the risk of piracy. The pirate runs the risk of Concorde and bouty hunters.
You, you steal with no risk. Whilst you may think that is an awesome way to get by many other's disagree.
I have had run-ins with MO0 and M3G4 and god knows who else. I didn't complain. It's what the game is about. I've never suffered from cannister theft but I've read some interesting views both for and against.
How's about this for a new thread. Nerf ore theft from cannisters?
And if you don't like **** off! From what I hear, the game will be a better place without you.
On a final note, I'm not a carebear or any such like. I simply do not like the fact that some people enjoy the fact that they can make money in this game at someone else's expense. Not only that, but do it easily, with no fear of reprisal and whoever gets robbed suffers.
Now that to me smells like an exploit. I hate exploiters.
Eheheheh (Snip: I cheat and like it!) ehehehe
'It is only when your life flashes before your eyes that you realise how much you have missed.'
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:38:00 -
[21]
"If you trade, you run the risk of piracy."
ehehehe!
It's the fact that traders don't run the risk of privacy which is precisely why trading needs to be nerfed.
Scrapyard Jack thinks Big Hairy Al needs to pay more attention to in-game developments, eh?
As a side note: You suck, as evidened by your readiness to throw around the twin-insults of "cheat" and "exploiter" against people such as poor ol' Jack, who plays within the game mechanics.
Shame on you, Hairy Al .. shame on you!
ehehehe!
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Grange
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:40:00 -
[22]
Maybe, but there are no more blockades, heh.
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Stavros
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:57:00 -
[23]
trading is now a joke, ultra fast thanks to the superhighway gates and ultra safe thanks to gate guns. There is no risk at all now and you can afk trade runs in complete safety.
Ah well I am done whining...
/me goes back to his trade routes...
Stav
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"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
snotty
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Posted - 2003.07.06 16:59:00 -
[24]
did some missions yesterday, lvl2 agent, about 8 jumps avarage for 30k.
Ok, i dont need a downpayment of 10M but even with that more then 1M isk for 3 jumps is terreble overpayed. Hunting pre-patch earned me 1M in one hour and you have to be a good miner to make the same amount in one hour.
So trading is bugged and currently all trades are exploiters
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Max Power
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:02:00 -
[25]
It is very boring now. I just fill my indy with stuff, plot a course in autopilot then go and do something else for 10 mins. I sell the stuff set the return course and repeat.
Sometimes autopilot goes wrong and just sits at a gate for 10 mins while I am having a shower or something and someone may lock on but that's about as exciting as it gets :( Oh, and you pass lots of other afk traders too, but there is no point talking to them - they aren't there.
Lots and lots of isk (55 mill so far solo, 1 hour per day for 2 weeks) but I miss the pirates. I couldn't even face it today so I warped between asteroid belts instead to remind me of what the "threat" sound is like.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:39:00 -
[26]
All pirates have to do is find out which corps. are making the biggest killing on trade runs and create a corp. war.
You get to kill with impunity and possibly make a sweet profit from dropped goods.
Of course, it's hard work but at least you get to have a fight.
Molly does a lot of running around (when she isn't inventing silly voting threads like this one: Bad, Molly, bad) and she still makes a profit.
Use some smarts - corporation war is the way to go.
P.S: Maybe Max Power's corp would be a good way to start :)
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 06/07/2003 17:39:36
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Max Power
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Posted - 2003.07.06 17:44:00 -
[27]
It's more of a freelancer thing really. The best in-region trade routes dry up within 1 hour of server reboot - hopefully they'll implement random restocking at some point then I won't have to sneakily login from work :)
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.06 19:47:00 -
[28]
Thats all well and good in theory Josh, but theres 2 minor problems with that.
1) Finding out who's doing it, when, where, and in what ships.
2) They have 24 hours of warning to pull their trade ships before the war is active.
Sorry to shoot that idea down.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.06 19:56:00 -
[29]
Maarek, ahhh, I've never experienced corp. war so I wasn't aware of the 24hrs warning.
That sucks.
As for finding out who/what/where - that is what alts were made for.
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 06/07/2003 19:57:47
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.06 20:02:00 -
[30]
<< All pirates have to do is find out which corps. are making the biggest killing on trade runs and create a corp. war.
You get to kill with impunity and possibly make a sweet profit from dropped goods.
Of course, it's hard work but at least you get to have a fight.
Molly does a lot of running around (when she isn't inventing silly voting threads like this one: Bad, Molly, bad) and she still makes a profit.
Use some smarts - corporation war is the way to go.
P.S: Maybe Max Power's corp would be a good way to start :) >>
I've figured it out. In your signature, it's really a dead horse that guy is beating isn't it?
Trade profit became unbalanced the second the pirates left. People immediately jumped into their industrials, spent every isk they had loading up and began hauling goods like no end. Why? Because the npc pirates at the gate can't even stop a reaper on autopilot.
As for the "Oh it's just a little work!", I did ask you to locate me via you agent. I have haven't left the constellation yet. So since it's so easy to locate someone as you claim, why don't you locate me? I'll even refund the fee.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 06/07/2003 20:02:28
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.06 20:30:00 -
[31]
"Trade profit became unbalanced the second the pirates left. People immediately jumped into their industrials, spent every isk they had loading up and began hauling goods like no end. Why? Because the npc pirates at the gate can't even stop a reaper on autopilot."
Yup. It'd really make the game some good to get rid of those security guns in the low ( 0.5 and less) security sectors... Make the police warp in there and try to sort things out if there's trouble (the lower the security level, the longer the delay before they do) but the way it is now it's quite an overkill...
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.06 23:56:00 -
[32]
They really do need to nerf the trade routes.... I mean common, what's the purpose of lower security systems if even thought it's a .4 or .5 nobody can kill you or the cops will kill him!? Plus gate pirates are so easy that I sneeze and they blow up...
That's not right. The current system contradicts the whole security system idea that was introduced in the first place... and all that why? BECAUSE OF WHINEY CAREBEARS THAT CAN'T GET THEMSELVES AN ESCORT!
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:01:00 -
[33]
Quote from Hyden: Um, if someone pulling 1.1 mil per run is worrying you...I am sorry to inform you that some traders (with the proper financial backing) can pull a wee bit more than that. But they are at risk. Imagine pulling up to a blocade with 50-100 mil in trade goods...lol. Risk vs. reward...
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Blockade? Where? How? We can't blockade anymore that's the whole point! You blockade in empire space = cops after you! The only systems you could blockade in to some point (even even there, cops will still come eventually) is in .3 and bellow systems.... which aren't very numerous in empire space. At least not where a pirate with low security status can go...
That's the whole problem now. Since pirates can't venture anywhere in Empire Space since the last patch... traders have it WAY too easy.
Edit: and by the way, creating corp wars will NOT work because when you are a pireate your security status is usually negative for killing people... which means that even if you are at war with another corp, you still won't be able to go in Empire Space!!!
Edited by: Ehxo on 07/07/2003 00:04:33
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:14:00 -
[34]
YES
It is so rediculous now - whiny noobs making millions from crying.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Starwolf
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:32:00 -
[35]
I've traded quite a bit and can assure you that the best profits are to be made in non-empire space.
I'm not going to be bothered selling things at 5% profit locally or 10% to a different region if I can make 20% by going 5 or 6 extra jumps out in to 0.0 space.
Maybe the pirates will need to learn to look at the market to see where demand is high for products?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.07 00:42:00 -
[36]
Lazt, fat gate campers - ironicaly now whinging at lazy fat traders.
Ah the wonders of the galaxy.
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:16:00 -
[37]
A good "gate camper" is far from lazy man, and rarely stays in the sameplace for too long, and moves when the traffic does too. It's not a matter of whining, they just can't seem to balance it right. Before it was too easy for gate campers and pirates, and traders had a hard time.. Now pirate corps are doomed to do boring NPC runs or do blockades in 0.0 systems where no more ships go because it became too easy in Empire space...
They have to find a way to clearly separate each level of security systems, from 1.0 to 0.0. Right the difference is too small. For one, they could make gate pirates a bit tougher... that would be a start.
I unfortunately don't have anything in mind right now as of how to change the system, if I do I'll post it here... I'm still thinking about how they could make it better for everybody.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:29:00 -
[38]
Unfortunately Exho they don't move with the traffic.
There are literally dozens of routes that i nknow of through 0.0 space with far more isk going along htem than in Empire space... no gate guns, no concord - and no pirates.
No far be it from me to suggest that "so-called pirates" are scared away by the prospect of a fight in 0.0 space but...
I've seen one pirate there in the last 7 weeks.
One.
I'm not saying its easy, I happen to know it isn't, but i don't like the double0faced nature of "oh no i cant EASILY get at the golden goose!".
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Rod Stealsly
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Posted - 2003.07.07 01:49:00 -
[39]
Two things are wrong with the latest patch:
Highway Gates
Sentry Guns in 0.5 and lower systems
Let me address each in turn.
The Highway gates remove the time element that made trading trade goods a second choice to mining or pirate hunting. It was possible to do better than either of those two activities, but it was more a rare occurance, not a constant. Now, the good runs that were 35 jumps apart, are now within the 10-15 range, making it way too easy to make good money. Altho, I must admit, those runs may dry up very quickly (3-4 days) which in some sense would be self-correcting (most traders don't have the self-control to wait for the really good prices, all about that immediate gratification).
By placing Sentry Guns in all systems in Empire space, the risk of trading has been removed. If you expect the NPCs that gate-camp the gates to take out an industrial before it reaches the gate, then you have never flown an industrial. With no risk, then trading is not balanced with other methods of acquiring ISK. And let's be honest, ISK IS EVE. He who is richest is most powerful.
Some possible solutions:
Remove the Sentry guns from 0.5 and less and make the police respond in those systems. Some of the most heavily policed cities in the world have the highest crime rates in the world. The Empires gave them a low security rating for a reason, either they don't really care what is going on there, the police have been bribed, or whatever, but there should be piracy of varying levels in those systems near the gates.
Turn on random trade reseeding. Part of the ease of trading is knowing that every day after restart there is going to be good prices somewhere in a region. With the random trade reseeding, at least the amount of guarrenteed money is reduced for the "select few" who are able to "camp the respawn." This spreads the wealth among many as opposed to few, and is in some sense a proxy-nerf.
Place all of the really good trade runs near the fringe systems of Empire space. Any system close to the Highway gates should never have one of the really good prices because at the very least other NPCs can supply them (this may happen anyway just due to the way traders trade). But, all of those factories way out in the boonies should be paying premiums (risk, reward).
Anyway, I think this last patch was a step backwards in two areas: pirating and trading. But, the game is not too broken and can be easily fixed.
EDIT - btw, since we all know why the Sentry Guns were added, wouldn't it have just been easier to change Mara and Passari to 0.5 systems and place guns just there instead of reworking the entire system?
Edited by: Rod Stealsly on 07/07/2003 02:28:43 |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.07 03:15:00 -
[40]
"There are literally dozens of routes that i nknow of through 0.0 space with far more isk going along htem than in Empire space... no gate guns, no concord - and no pirates."
Pretty strange it's so quiet then, since it's rather easy to spot those routes on the map with the "Jumps made in last hour" filter on.
You'd think a lawless system with 40 jumps (i.e. one every 1.5 minute) would attract pirates... and there's strings of them across the 0.0 sec space. o.O
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.07 06:12:00 -
[41]
I think there should be something done to balance trade runs with the other money making activities.
Specifically, what makes trade runs unique is the lack of player interaction required. Pirate killing and mining both require interaction. To increase throughput (profit) for pirate hunting or mining, one must also increase interaction.
Trade runs increase in profit based upon available funds and cargo space, not player interaction. If anything with the inclusion of the auto-pilot not stopping anymore when a spatial incursion takes, trading has become easier than ever.
Modification to the profit margin for traders wouldnÆt be fair as mining and pirate hunt can be just as profitable, given the right circumstances.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.07 06:18:00 -
[42]
>>> To increase throughput (profit) for pirate hunting or mining, one must also increase interaction. <<<
If you want to increase throughput (profit) trading you need to mount ABs and train the relevant skills. Then fire the ABs before every gate.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.07 09:17:00 -
[43]
When I pootle around in my Omen doing exploring I frequently pass unescorted industrial ships in 0.0 space. I've even done it myself down in the south-east away from the usual pirate haunts (both before and after the patch). Edit: hauled robotics, not pirated them :-) If one of those is carrying a full load of robotics (just about the highest value easily findable trading commodity as is well known now) then there's up to 35M up for grabs there if it's a big indi. Previously gate camping was an easy way of farming AFK or chatting traders, now pirates actually need to show some initiative to pull in the money.
Someone mentioned that a trader can pull in 30+M in an evening, true, but one successful hit will bring in the same amount and the new trade routes will inevitably collapse within a few days (even if supply/demand remains high the prices will tend to go closer and closer to each other, or even cross in value effectively deleting the route for a long time).
Mining in itself is unlikely to bring in that much, but if you convert those minerals to ships that not everyone is building or have a well researched BP then you can easily match it.
Grab yourself some tasty bookmarks exploring (this is where the really smart money is now, and has been for several weeks) and within a week or so you are basically printing your own money - for NO RISK WHATSOEVER as you can keep copies of the bookmarks safe in your hangar and mass copy them. All you need to do is find sufficient locations that you're not selling the same one twice within a few days.
Personally I think it is pretty balanced as it is. I would like to see fewer super-highway gates as it does shrink the universe massively - not because of the effect it has on trading though. Basically before if I wanted a spaceship I might say well, 7.5M if I go 50 jumps or 8.5M if I buy here - now I very rarely find myself buying something where it's so far away I'm not willing to travel.
Edited by: Athule Snanm on 07/07/2003 11:45:15
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Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
StarWolfer
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Posted - 2003.07.07 10:56:00 -
[44]
Edited by: StarWolfer on 07/07/2003 11:14:44
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