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The State and our new Master.

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Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.28 05:48:00 - [1] As it is public knowledge, recent CONCORD legislation prohibits agent distribution of advanced tech components. As a rookie pilot whose ships are not equipped with tech 2 components I lack both the knowledge or the interests to comment on the market impact of such legislation. But why a CONCORD official has anything to say on how a Caldari Corporation rewards a Caldari pilot is beyond me. I find... disappointing... that we will bow to CONCORD even though it directly affects the inner workings of our Corporations. And I'm even more concerned with the fact that, although the Empires are split over this decision (two Empires being for, two Empires being against), "the decision [of the Inner Circle] is widely reported to have been near-unanimous" So much for our... independence. --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
Gaven Lok'ri	Posted - 2005.04.28 05:57:00 - [2] It is very simple, concord sees the production of more modern ships as a challenge that it cannot master. So it now tries to take that threat out at the root and limit the power of the Empires Pod pilot populations. Of course this is little more than a power play by a corrupt organisation. But I believe that anything bearing the name CONCORD already can be said to fit under that description. Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II!
Pulgor	Posted - 2005.04.28 06:05:00 - [3] I used to champion CONCORD but lately there's just nothing to defend. They make blunder after blunder. Herko, the reason that CONCORD voted almost unanimously is because most of CONCORD is run BY CONCORD. The individual empires have hardly little say in the matters anymore as CONCORD promotes through it's own ranks now and representitives in the Empires are now more loyal to "The man" then the empires they're supposed to represent. Perhaps it's time to restructure this organization. ----------------------------------- Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
Ly'sol	Posted - 2005.04.28 06:07:00 - [4] Its no hidden fact that the majority of the human race envys pod pilots. we are a threat, a jump in what people could be. And to see that each one of us is able wield incrediable power. So let them illegalise our activities, all the more independant it will make us from thier stale societies. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.28 06:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Ly'sol So let them illegalise our activities, all the more independant it will make us from thier stale societies. On the contrary... this legislation is not against pod pilots, but against *NON* pod pilots corporations. It's telling corporation agents what they can and cannot do. My main concern here is not how or why CONCORD reaches its conclusions, but the fact that Caldari Corporations will bend to it even though the State does not agree with the legislation. Until this day i would have imagined my agent in the Caldari Navy would laugh in the face of any CONCORD pencil pusher who would even dare to hint how she should reward her pilots' services. I would have been wrong, obviously. What's next? CONCORD telling Lai Dai where its agents should be located? --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.28 06:36:00 - [6] A subdivision of CONCORD is the SCC, who controls and regulate the flow of goods on orbitals. The Caldari signed the CONCORD pact and as such, they're subjected to the whims of the SCC as well. Don't fret too much over it, it will make us, the capsule pilots, even richer. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Hayzo	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:20:00 - [7] or even poorer, depends on how you look at it. ____________________ "Sanity Is Not Statistical"
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:30:00 - [8] Originally by: OdCuK Hayzo or even poorer, depends on how you look at it. Mmm, true [Heterocephalus glaber]
Hayzo	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:43:00 - [9] Edited by: OdCuK Hayzo on 28/04/2005 07:43:43 IM-very-HO; CONCORD is trying to give less power to the pod pilots, as its getting to the point where there's enough of us to best the DED. Thus, theyre regulating our more advanced tech. ____________________ "Sanity Is Not Statistical"
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:49:00 - [10] Originally by: OdCuK Hayzo Edited by: OdCuK Hayzo on 28/04/2005 07:43:43 IM-very-HO; CONCORD is trying to give less power to the pod pilots, as its getting to the point where there's enough of us to best the DED. Thus, theyre regulating our more advanced tech. Mmm, not neccesarily. We can now take control of second generation technology, without depending on the empires to feed us the needed components. In a way, they're cutting us loose. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Rhuu	Posted - 2005.04.28 08:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: OdCuK Hayzo Edited by: OdCuK Hayzo on 28/04/2005 07:43:43 IM-very-HO; CONCORD is trying to give less power to the pod pilots, as its getting to the point where there's enough of us to best the DED. Thus, theyre regulating our more advanced tech. Mmm, not neccesarily. We can now take control of second generation technology, without depending on the empires to feed us the needed components. In a way, they're cutting us loose. And besides that, if you choose to not work under the direct jurisdiction of the Amarr Empire, Caldari State, Gallente Federation, or Minmatar republic, you will still have access to rewards similar to those you were getting before, CONCORD decree or no. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this will include the legal bodies of Ammatar, Interbus, Khanid, Mordu's Legion, ORE, SOE, Syndicate, Thukker, as well as the various illegal organizations out there, if you feel like developing a nasty streak. You have many options... And as an added bonus, you might find yourself in more interesting places, meeting more interesting people. Pirates, terrorists, and murderers can often be interesting conversation. Even pleasant, if you can earn their respect.
Raem Civrie	Posted - 2005.04.28 08:34:00 - [12] CONCORD is a decadent, bloated entity that needs to be culled and kicked like a puppy. The threat it poses to the sovereignty of all it's member nations is such that it consistently amazes me how they continue to pay for it's support. When you don't police your own borders, but allow a third party to do it for you, you don't own your borders anymore.
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.28 09:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 28/04/2005 09:03:10 Originally by: Rhuu And besides that, if you choose to not work under the direct jurisdiction of the Amarr Empire, Caldari State, Gallente Federation, or Minmatar republic, you will still have access to rewards similar to those you were getting before, CONCORD decree or no. I was talking as a Caldari, not as a pod pilot. It's not my personal wealth I'm worried about. As I said, I dont use T2 component myself. I'm worried about how the State bows to an outside intrusion. And the Federation supporting this legislation while the States opposes it... and nevertheless it gets approved... As I said, so much for our (Caldari) independence... --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
Rhuu	Posted - 2005.04.28 09:04:00 - [14] Edited by: Rhuu on 28/04/2005 09:06:35 Originally by: Raem Civrie When you don't police your own borders, but allow a third party to do it for you, you don't own your borders anymore. Yes. Also, the Empires using pod-equipped privateers to solve 90% of all thier problems in space points towards the same conclusion. The Empires really only exist for the purpose of perpetuating the lifestyles of those who are closest to the top rungs of the political ladders. More and more, attempts to wield power by signators of the CONCORD pact prove little more than the growing impotence (two words I never thought I'd use together) of the powers involved. The over-government of CONCORD, though relatively new in the scope of things, is indeed as useless as M. Raem says. Even earlier today, CONCORD showed thier ineptitude not only by allowing a known and wanted Guristas pirate all the way into Yulai, but by yielding control of the military operation to freelance pilots who, in the end, managed to prove CONCORD's worth by both completing the operation and simultaneously making CONCORD's secondary objective untenable. It seems that only the Jove recognize the fact that we, the pod pilot community, are causing this structure to fall apart, though whether the weakening of the empire governments by releasing pod technology was by design is something best asked of them, if any of them would talk. I wonder if any Caldari bookies are taking bets on how much longer this balance will last. Originally by: Herko As I said, so much for our (Caldari) independence... I'm betting you'll have it back soon enough, at least.
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.28 11:34:00 - [15] Edited by: theRaptor on 28/04/2005 11:37:08 I would point out that CONCORD's money comes from the empires. He who pays the piper, calls the tune. CONCORD is just the distraction so that the empires don't have to admit they are afraid of the military power of pod pilots. The fact that empire navies have to pay podpilots to run anti-piracy patrols, is damning evidence of their incompetence. Its obvious from recent events that the empires have started a new military build up. All these T2 comps that are no longer going to pod pilots will be used to build up the empire navies. But luckily for us corporations like ORE have released the technology that frees us from any dependance on the empires. --------------------------------------------------
Night BlackDark	Posted - 2005.04.28 14:06:00 - [16] This is all due to the Amarr Empire and their wish to dominate everyting. Its them i tell you, they are influencing Concord to make these decisions. They must be stopped and podded! All Minmatar rise up and do what damage you are able to do to the next Amarr slave master you see or for that matter just any Amarr will do. Wreck havoc on them, it must be done, you owe it to your fellow Minmatar.
Tennotsukai	Posted - 2005.04.28 16:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri It is very simple, concord sees the production of more modern ships as a challenge that it cannot master. So it now tries to take that threat out at the root and limit the power of the Empires Pod pilot populations. Of course this is little more than a power play by a corrupt organisation. But I believe that anything bearing the name CONCORD already can be said to fit under that description. I find it amusing that an Amarrian lapdog, calls CONCORD corrupt.. After all isn't the most corrupt thing in the eve universe the Amarrian empire? But as for the matter in hand, Maybe CONCORD are tired of seeing many pilots being ripped off, due to the costs of Tech 2 items and ships and have done this in an attempt to get the prices lowered when a steady flow of part finally start arriving from these private stations we have see starting to pop up in various sytems. Yes, prices may rise but after all when the price wars start i have a feeling things may change for the better.
Ysabelle nKataros	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:45:00 - [18] I think the idea is a good one. The massive prevalence of pod pilots in empire space is putting vast pressure in certain ways on the empire economies. This is a drive to push our economy into the outer regions, for us to build our own economy and not depend so heavily and therefore warp so profoundly the economies we have spawned from. -------- MAcheTT3 > Hehe, ok... How much would you take them off for?
Pulgor	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Night BlackDark This is all due to the Amarr Empire and their wish to dominate everyting. Its them i tell you, they are influencing Concord to make these decisions. They must be stopped and podded! All Minmatar rise up and do what damage you are able to do to the next Amarr slave master you see or for that matter just any Amarr will do. Wreck havoc on them, it must be done, you owe it to your fellow Minmatar. Now who wants to control everything? ----------------------------------- Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
Tennotsukai	Posted - 2005.04.28 23:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Night BlackDark This is all due to the Amarr Empire and their wish to dominate everyting. Its them i tell you, they are influencing Concord to make these decisions. They must be stopped and podded! All Minmatar rise up and do what damage you are able to do to the next Amarr slave master you see or for that matter just any Amarr will do. Wreck havoc on them, it must be done, you owe it to your fellow Minmatar. Sometimes i wonder about the tutors at the Pator tech school, there used to be a time when only the cream of the crop ws allowed to become pod pilots.. But i guess now and then, things slip up and one reject slips through after all nothing is perfect..
Malik Delagore	Posted - 2005.04.29 00:15:00 - [21] I don't know, I am still trying to swallow the "The Gallente and Matari governments meanwhile have expressed their approval of the legislation". The people of the Federation regularly monitor our government to make sure it does not become too oppresive to our personal freedoms. I'd surely like to know who, in which branch of our government would comment that this is positive. -
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2005.04.29 00:30:00 - [22] Well they sure don't have my vote either. Increased Concord interference in National Governments is just another layer of oppression atop the nationalist focus of the old empires. Probably a natural state of affairs for the bureacrats to claim ever increasing powers for themselves. Star Fraction
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.29 01:41:00 - [23] Originally by: theRaptor I would point out that CONCORD's money comes from the empires. He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Not quite. CONCORD is fiscally self-suficient, as can be seen here. And for the last paragraph of that link... I'm afraid the day is coming. CONCORD clearly is stepping into the Empires' inner workings. Originally by: Night BlackDark This is all due to the Amarr Empire and their wish to dominate everyting. Its them i tell you, they are influencing Concord to make these decisions. Night, you are aware the while Amarrians and Caldari are AGAINST this measure, it's the Federation and the Republic that support it, right? Perhaps you should be asking your brethren what authority they think they posses to dictate us Caldari how to run our corporations? --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.29 04:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Herko Kerghans Originally by: theRaptor I would point out that CONCORD's money comes from the empires. He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Not quite. CONCORD is fiscally self-suficient, as can be seen here. And for the last paragraph of that link... I'm afraid the day is coming. CONCORD clearly is stepping into the Empires' inner workings. CONCORD has a tiny empire and doesn't have the materials to set itself apart from the other empires. I also doubt most of its employees are loyal except for the Isk they get. It would be trivial for the other empires to shut down the gates leading outside of CONCORD space, and thus starve them of material and Isk. --------------------------------------------------
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.29 06:00:00 - [25] Originally by: theRaptor It would be trivial for the other empires to shut down the gates leading outside of CONCORD space, and thus starve them of material and Isk. I used to think that way. Yet... ...from the news it's clear that although the Amarr and the Caldari State do not agree with this legislation, they are in fact unable to oppose it... Seems it's not so easy to shut the door on CONCORD's face... --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
Pulgor	Posted - 2005.04.29 06:27:00 - [26] You all underestimate CONCORD's political and economic clout. In order to facilitate peace, more then likly many reigns were handed over to CONCORD. Gates are probably one of these, and CONCORD decides how they interact, not the empires. As well CONCORD ships are made with the best of all 3 empires technology, they are, in effect, super ships. With a few of those bahemoths ciricling every empire station in a > 0.5 system, do you really WANT to find out what would happen if they were all cut off from home? Cutting off CONCORD is not so simple, it has trenches in all the empires and is slowly becomming self-atonomous. ----------------------------------- Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.04.29 07:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Pulgor of all 3 empires (I was just this close to write a nagging mathematical reference, when i realized this may be the pinnacle of brevity in geopolitical papers. If that was the intention, my bows to you Mr. Pulgor) --------- The Snow and the Dragon (Caldari children's Tale)
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.04.29 11:24:00 - [28] Support Mentas Blaque, Down with Concord! --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.04.29 12:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Herko Kerghans Originally by: theRaptor It would be trivial for the other empires to shut down the gates leading outside of CONCORD space, and thus starve them of material and Isk. I used to think that way. Yet... ...from the news it's clear that although the Amarr and the Caldari State do not agree with this legislation, they are in fact unable to oppose it... Seems it's not so easy to shut the door on CONCORD's face... Shutting the star gates down would be an emergency move by the states to maintain their power. It would completely destroy the current economies and bankrupt a lot of corporations. But the empires would prefer that, then having a bunch of self righteous civil servants take over. --------------------------------------------------
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:07:00 - [30] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 29/04/2005 13:08:48 A couple of points and straws in the wind... Firstly, there has been a deafening silence as to the position of the Jove Empire on this matter. It is often forgotten that CONCORD has this fifth seat at the table. (Hence the adoption of the five-pointed star symbol when the Minmatar Republic was finally admitted.) I for one would be fascinated to know if the Jovians wish to restrict the access of capsuleers to second-generation technology or if they are rather cleverly provoking the development of a space-based industry that can do without the decrepit old states. Naturally, as a transhumanist who has long suspected that the Jovian masterplan for the longterm survival of the human race centres squarely on the capsuleer class, I tend to the latter interpretation. On another point, CONCORD has served a certain, perhaps historically necessary purpose, but the time is fast approaching when it should be swept aside. It is worth noting that its former income from customs has been supplanted by the new national customs fleets (in themselves representing a huge increase in total national fleet power across the empires). If direct grants were also squeezed CONCORD would soon be back in its kennel. CONCORD reached its zenith of power some time ago. It is only downwards for that outmoded insitution from now on. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:15:00 - [31] I can almost guarantee you that the Jove don't really care. Still I wonder where Veniel is.. [Heterocephalus glaber]
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Discorporation I can almost guarantee you that the Jove don't really care. A rare moment of naivete from the foremost cynical commentator in the Amarrian capsuleer class and perhaps the pod-pilot ranks as a whole. Whatever the case, your 'almost guarantee' is as much conjecture as anything I have said (which I am happy to admit). The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:38:00 - [33] The Jove don't care. They're remarkably selfish. Kinda like me, only green. [Heterocephalus glaber]
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.04.29 14:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Discorporation The Jove don't care. They're remarkably selfish. Kinda like me, only green. Their involvment in CONCORD; the existence of SOCT (and the skill pack technology it created); the many Jovian corporations operating throughout Empire space and feeding tech into the space market; the involvement of the Jove in improving cloning technology; and most importantly the fact that the Jove released their patent on pod technology to the Caldari and refused any payment for doing so all tend to undercut the bald assertion (if you'll forgive the pun) that the Jove are simply selfish. A further point is that the Jove are not some homogeneous entity. They are highly factionalised and indications are that they have insular factions and outward-looking factions. The mysteries of Jovian internal politics certainly elude the best political scientists in the cluster so it is very hard to tell when these conflicting tendencies respectively wax and wane. The notion they don't care about the long-term survival of the human species is, quite simply, palpable nonsense. As for you, Disco, having seen you in rouge and blond glory it is hard to imagine you in any other colour scheme, let alone green. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction - Executor CEO: Jade Constantine
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.29 14:09:00 - [35] The Jove care about the Jove. There's a reason why Concord influence does not extend to their space. They might be on the tribunal, and one of their factions might actively develop skillpacks, but I personally don't think they give a damn. I doubt they ever did. I honestly do. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Yuki Li	Posted - 2005.04.29 15:20:00 - [36] The Caldari State works by the same set of rules as every other empire, we're bound by CONCORDs crap and that's just plain how it is. As far as capsuleers go, i agree with the notion that all this will accomplish is force us to the upper echelons of self sufficiency. Soon we won't need the support of Empire economies at all. [ 2004.07.31 17:31:00 ] (combat) Gallente Police Major strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 427.9 damage.
Rhuu	Posted - 2005.04.30 05:35:00 - [37] Originally by: Discorporation The Jove care about the Jove. There's a reason why Concord influence does not extend to their space. They might be on the tribunal, and one of their factions might actively develop skillpacks, but I personally don't think they give a damn. I doubt they ever did. I honestly do. I don't think the Jove care much about the Jove at all. Their history with various groups of people over the past hundred years or so seems to point to them caring a great deal about information. While I agree that they don't care about people as individuals, or about what happens specifically to groups of individuals, they do seem to care about the information that they can gain from subjecting groups to different sorts of stimuli. They gave capsule technology to the Caldari, they gave out the locations of the Immensea cult's space stations to pod pilots. They give away pieces of advanced technology in order to see what is done with it, I would think for the purpose of collecting data on how humanity deals with their new skills and abilities. What they plan to do with the information, though, I'm not sure. Perhaps they want to justify their manipulation of their own genetics, or maybe they want to reclaim the humanity that they lost in the process. Either way, whatever indifferences and insignificant seeming moves they seem to make, I have the feeling that there are deeper motives and manipulations at work behind them. Or maybe Wakita's paranoia is contagious, and I'm just making connections where there aren't any to be made.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.04.30 08:30:00 - [38] Perhaps you're right Rhuu, perhaps you're right. [Heterocephalus glaber]

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