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Berilac
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Posted - 2005.04.30 00:21:00 -
[1]
When i was reading the ideas forum, and thinking: "what could they be used for? they cant be better than a battleship at what they do, that just doesn't make sence, there so much bigger/better, plus giving them insane armor would just not fit with the idea of a non-combat ship. Then it hit me: Jump Scrambling Logistics Ships. Not warp scrambling but jumpgate scrambling. Make it one of the 5000 cpu things with a 92-100% loss for logistics ship skill. This would make a vastly desired ship, and a true way to control space. You could only scrable outgoing jumps, Lock the gate, scramble jumps. You could have guards in 0.0, it would make everything more interesting.
Any ideas/flames would be welcome.
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'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
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JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.04.30 00:26:00 -
[2]
and yet once again for almost every idea coming up on this forums I say following:
1) piracy
2) gate-camping
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When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
Berilac
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Posted - 2005.04.30 00:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Berilac on 30/04/2005 00:32:40
oh yes, it needs some balencing. just an idea thou eh?
The idea i had was just because logistic ships are rare, as are the skill to use them. expencive modules, expencive ships, rare skills (how many hacs do you see around?) hopefully balences them.
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'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.04.30 01:07:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: JoeSomebody
and yet once again for almost every idea coming up on this forums I say following:
1) piracy
2) gate-camping
Yeppers on that. However It could be used more skillfuly in more pvp settings. But, it would just get targeted faster. Other than that, good for pirate activites.
Someone asked about how you couldn't pirate in a smaller ship. You can with a logistic ship aiding you.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.04.30 01:17:00 -
[5]
Logistics ships should provide logistical aid. Maybe it should help people plot in a warp course faster. Maybe it should help ganged ships have more passive bonuses to lock times, lock range, turret accuracy, missile RoF, shield resistances and passive recharge efficiency.
Logistics. That's like getting stuff to a battlefield in the first place. People usually don't need to take anything with them to a battlefield in the first place, which I find kind of unfortunate. Maybe they should go to the model where invading forces need to set up some sort of camp in order to lay seige to an enemy. A logistics ship or several would speed the assembly of such a needed installation.
Ideas forum btw.
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Cyperinn
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Posted - 2005.04.30 01:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Berilac
When i was reading the ideas forum, and thinking: "what could they be used for? they cant be better than a battleship at what they do, that just doesn't make sence, there so much bigger/better, plus giving them insane armor would just not fit with the idea of a non-combat ship. Then it hit me: Jump Scrambling Logistics Ships. Not warp scrambling but jumpgate scrambling. Make it one of the 5000 cpu things with a 92-100% loss for logistics ship skill. This would make a vastly desired ship, and a true way to control space. You could only scrable outgoing jumps, Lock the gate, scramble jumps. You could have guards in 0.0, it would make everything more interesting.
Any ideas/flames would be welcome.
/me likes this idea
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Hulemand
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Posted - 2005.04.30 02:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Hulemand on 30/04/2005 02:50:32
Edited by: Hulemand on 30/04/2005 02:49:19
Using a Oneiros myself I say:
1248 armor every 8 sec at 51km range isn't all that bad :D
I don't think they should make it possible to prevent a jump like that and not with logistics!
The logistic bonuses as such is fine, but the ships themself could maybe get a little boost in shield, armor, structure, and indeed resistances.
What is the point in being able to keep others alive if you can't stay alive yourself. I havn't used my ship for PvP, but I'm sure it would be one of hte first targets 
EDIT:
Maybe give it a bonus like the Transports? Atm the resistances isn't all that great, give them the bonus like the small transport
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.04.30 04:51:00 -
[8]
Logistics ships should have extremly high resists, so they aren't such easy targets.
But it's overall really a question of how atractive the devs will make HP and resist instead of repair heavy setups.
Right now armor plates or shield extenders on battleships stink, you're simply better off bringing your own repairers/boosters.
If a ship with armor plates/extenders would acctually do better in combat then one that actively tanks, but have the disadvantage that it can't repair itself afterwards, logistics ships would instantly become useful...
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Tisiph0ne
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Posted - 2005.04.30 05:21:00 -
[9]
Shield extenders and armor plating should give a boost to repairers so that they can keep up versus hardened armor.
Simple, and not difficult to explain the reason either to people with RP-based objections.
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2005.04.30 05:26:00 -
[10]
The problem as I see it with remote repairing in general is that it's way more practical to repair yourself than to have someone else do it. The best solution for this in my mind is a simple reduction to the cap use of remote reps (and shield transfers of course). Make it a better idea to have one or more pilots flying repair ships than to simply slap your own reps on and they'll be used. Right now it would be ridiculous.
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"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
Roba
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Posted - 2005.04.30 07:31:00 -
[11]
Dude... thats great.
Also the locking the gate and using the mod makes sense. Would prevent empire use, since aggressing on a gate calls concord and the sentury guns open up on you. Logistics being crusiers mean that it would be sucicde in a 0.4 system. Really not worth risking a 100m isk uninsurable ship (tech II don't insure well) and a 50 - 100m isk jump scrambling mod.
But I would ask that the mod require much more capac then the ship could sustain. So it would only be able to stop out going jumps for a minute or so. Since it is a crusier... well a battleship or two warping in could toast it in seconds a free up the gate.
I can also see it being used in fleet battles to prevent retreat. You know... the tactic of blobing around the gate to jump out if overwhelmed. Well this way... logisitcs warps in, insta locks gate, shuts it down... destabilizes its jump feild?... and the blob can't jump out for a minute.
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Berilac
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Posted - 2005.04.30 07:52:00 -
[12]
yeah roba, thats how i see it too. Im just thinking logistics=non-combat. Any logistics ship that is causing problems for the enemy will just be destroyed, same with any ship, with any resists or any hp.
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'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
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Karmic
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Posted - 2005.04.30 07:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Berilac
When i was reading the ideas forum, and thinking: "what could they be used for? they cant be better than a battleship at what they do, that just doesn't make sence, there so much bigger/better, plus giving them insane armor would just not fit with the idea of a non-combat ship. Then it hit me: Jump Scrambling Logistics Ships. Not warp scrambling but jumpgate scrambling. Make it one of the 5000 cpu things with a 92-100% loss for logistics ship skill. This would make a vastly desired ship, and a true way to control space. You could only scrable outgoing jumps, Lock the gate, scramble jumps. You could have guards in 0.0, it would make everything more interesting.
Any ideas/flames would be welcome.
Thus killing any single person travel through 0.0. Do you see the Empires locking down gates when pie-rats try to come through ? Bad idea right from the word go.
Personally I think they should change the support cruiser by-
Resistances to near enough that of a HAC.
Increase Shield, Armour, Hull totals.(Using the tech II industrials as example of how much)
Either increase cap recharge or increase total cap. (That of battle cruiser or abit more)
Then possibly increase the bonuses (from skills) to the remote modules they use. Basically they do have a specialised role but a battleship can generally do the job better and easier (training wise) and pretty much as cheaply.
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Other Minion
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Posted - 2005.04.30 08:03:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Other Minion on 30/04/2005 08:04:52
Originally by: Karmic
Originally by: Berilac
When i was reading the ideas forum, and thinking: "what could they be used for? they cant be better than a battleship at what they do, that just doesn't make sence, there so much bigger/better, plus giving them insane armor would just not fit with the idea of a non-combat ship. Then it hit me: Jump Scrambling Logistics Ships. Not warp scrambling but jumpgate scrambling. Make it one of the 5000 cpu things with a 92-100% loss for logistics ship skill. This would make a vastly desired ship, and a true way to control space. You could only scrable outgoing jumps, Lock the gate, scramble jumps. You could have guards in 0.0, it would make everything more interesting.
Any ideas/flames would be welcome.
Thus killing any single person travel through 0.0. Do you see the Empires locking down gates when pie-rats try to come through ? Bad idea right from the word go.
Personally I think they should change the support cruiser by-
Resistances to near enough that of a HAC.
Increase Shield, Armour, Hull totals.(Using the tech II industrials as example of how much)
Either increase cap recharge or increase total cap. (That of battle cruiser or abit more)
Then possibly increase the bonuses (from skills) to the remote modules they use. Basically they do have a specialised role but a battleship can generally do the job better and easier (training wise) and pretty much as cheaply.
You already can. A scorp can lock any interceptor in under 1 second. Before it can warp. It just takes the right setup and enough sensor boosters. We are talking an insane scan res. Right now in a good camp no solo ship can get through. Also you can stop insta jumpers with two ravens or any battleship for that matter with a full rack of smart bombs.
It would only effect groups. A solo person is already screwed against someone with high skills. Whats the diffrence? In fact this would require even more skills... then a ultra insta lock tackler.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.04.30 08:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Roba
But I would ask that the mod require much more capac then the ship could sustain. So it would only be able to stop out going jumps for a minute or so. Since it is a crusier... well a battleship or two warping in could toast it in seconds a free up the gate.
Then you get another ship with remote cap boosters feeding it cap.
It's a nice idea, but mebbe not very practical...
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Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Hulemand
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Posted - 2005.04.30 11:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Karmic
Thus killing any single person travel through 0.0. Do you see the Empires locking down gates when pie-rats try to come through ? Bad idea right from the word go.
Personally I think they should change the support cruiser by-
Resistances to near enough that of a HAC.
Increase Shield, Armour, Hull totals.(Using the tech II industrials as example of how much)
Either increase cap recharge or increase total cap. (That of battle cruiser or abit more)
Then possibly increase the bonuses (from skills) to the remote modules they use. Basically they do have a specialised role but a battleship can generally do the job better and easier (training wise) and pretty much as cheaply.
Originally by: ArcticFox
The problem as I see it with remote repairing in general is that it's way more practical to repair yourself than to have someone else do it. The best solution for this in my mind is a simple reduction to the cap use of remote reps (and shield transfers of course). Make it a better idea to have one or more pilots flying repair ships than to simply slap your own reps on and they'll be used. Right now it would be ridiculous.
Logistic really don't need more cap, only more life. The current logistic bonuses are reducing the cap cost enough for remote armor repair / shield transfor, but the logistic it self can't be a tank itself and a support ship.
So they really could go with some more life, maybe a +2 warp strengt bonus giving them a chance to get away?
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CptEagle
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Posted - 2005.04.30 14:56:00 -
[17]
So with 10 or so of those you can lock down 0.0 space completely... 
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2005.04.30 16:17:00 -
[18]
I'd much rather see a cruiser based offensive support ship than changes to make the current logistics ships offensive. Those'd be nasty mean, uber EW bonuses to put a scorp to shame, mayb some ship exclusive hi slot EW modules for flavor, maybe a ship with range bonuses for a webber or warp disruptor... the possibilities are endless.
Maybe even a projected cloaking array... that'd have so many possibilities.
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Berilac
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Posted - 2005.04.30 19:51:00 -
[19]
no, cpteagle, thats not true. they would be an offencive act, so you couldent lock down the 0.0-.5+ gates. remember, it only disalows jumping through that gate, not the one on the other side, a 1 sided deal. if you want to go to one of those .1 to .4-0.0 gates, be prepaired to have some good shield+armor transfers, and good tanks on the transfer-ers. Also, you couldent just tank the sentrys in .4-.1 because the jump scram can only be used a short time. it will suck all the cap away after a few cycles.
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'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
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mrbabooon
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Posted - 2005.05.01 03:08:00 -
[20]
I love this idea. It makes sense. It doesnt need to be a logistic ship though, maybe another elite cruiser or possibly elite battleship. It plays in with the upcoming jump drives in games, allowing movement in and out of system without jumpgates.
Balancing, however, would be an issue. Being able to use the module for only afew cycles (maybe like 30 seconds max) and then having a cooldown of some sort on it, so the ship could be used effectivly at stopping ships, but it wouldn't clog up 0.0
Very good idea.
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2005.05.01 07:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hulemand
Edited by: Hulemand on 30/04/2005 02:50:32
Edited by: Hulemand on 30/04/2005 02:49:19
Using a Oneiros myself I say:
1248 armor every 8 sec at 51km range isn't all that bad :D
Its really bad for the isk and SP invested in the ship,
make it 1284 armor and 642 cap every 8 second AOE on all ships with radius of 51km 
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Eldore savitore
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Posted - 2005.05.01 11:33:00 -
[22]
Now, i gotta be totally honest. i haven't read the whole thread.
However, i've looked at logistics ships, and i've seen that while battleships are pretty damn good at repairing and boosting because of the huge cap, logistics won't need it. I see the best use here with a battleship feeding the logistics energy, thereby getting about 3 times better ratio on energy vs. repairs/boosters. heck, with the logistics ship that gives a bonus to energy transfers, you can even create energy for the gankerships. just fit a nosf and an energy transfer, and chi-ching: you magivcally create energy. will need some tinkering tho, but mainly: it should be pretty effective with 1 dedicated tank on missions, and 1 logistics. add firepower as needed.
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Lucas Vicenzo
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Posted - 2005.05.01 12:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: JoeSomebody
and yet once again for almost every idea coming up on this forums I say following:
1) piracy
2) gate-camping
Thats a bit of a stupid thing to say really, unless you remove everything apart from mining barges and strip miners from a game, every module and ship can be used for piracy or gatecamping, but then it can be used for consensual wars, allliance wars, or even fun between corp mates. If that sort of attitude is used when people come up with ideas, then eve will go nowhere.
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2005.05.01 14:12:00 -
[24]
It would need to be restricted to 0.0.
I like the idea of them being able to have a warp bubble around them.. Say the size of a large one.
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FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
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