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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |

Viscis Breeze
TriFlexure Void-Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:24:00 -
[121] - Quote
Nicol Caius wrote:@Devs, please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec.
I would at least like the option to turn it off. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
351

|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:24:00 -
[122] - Quote
Udonor wrote:... #1 it would really be nice if you could change labels of cans on ships (and for freighters assemble cans) ...
It is now possible to rename cans in your ship. Thanks to the CSM for bitching about this, we would have missed it, as it was already possible for dev characters. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Gridlock Writing bug reports | Mass tests
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5621
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:27:00 -
[123] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:RE: Deep Space Transports having scan immunity, I think they just didn't want to give the immunity to the tanky ship. All the suicide gankers will start complaining that their profession has been nerfed if they make this change. Because not only do they have to attack a tanky ship now, but now they won't even know what the payout will be. And that's completely unfair to suicide gankers.
So you guys can logically argue it all you want, the decision wasn't made based on the arguments you're arguing.
Orcas have had scan immunity for years and they're far tankier than DSTs. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |

Kimo Khan
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:27:00 -
[124] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Nicol Caius wrote:@Devs, please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec. I would at least like the option to turn it off.
Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know?
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GKO
I-F-L I-F-L Intergalactic Space Holding
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:31:00 -
[125] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Nicol Caius wrote:@Devs, please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec. I would at least like the option to turn it off.
Yeah, FoxFour can you do that? |

Arcosian
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:33:00 -
[126] - Quote
Throwing a quick fit together in EFT for a tanky occator you can get about 80k ehp with a 20sec align time. Only 6k cargohold though so unless you are AFK flying to Jita you would be better off using the cloaky haulers with 10k cargohold.
Orca can get around 200k ehp so unscannable really makes no sense on a DST with the cloaky haulers getting more cargohold and being unscannable already thanks to the cloak. |

Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:34:00 -
[127] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:RE: Deep Space Transports having scan immunity, I think they just didn't want to give the immunity to the tanky ship. All the suicide gankers will start complaining that their profession has been nerfed if they make this change. Because not only do they have to attack a tanky ship now, but now they won't even know what the payout will be. And that's completely unfair to suicide gankers.
So you guys can logically argue it all you want, the decision wasn't made based on the arguments you're arguing.
Except that you forget the fact where cargo-scan immunity comes from: an Orca. This ship, although not as sturdy as a freighter, is already a tank on its own (granted that it needs to be fitted accordingly). So what CCP does now is remove this from a ship with a decent tank (can survive a multiple ship suice gank), to a ship without this tanking ability.
Removing it from an Orca to a Blockade Runner essentially makes it easier for suicide gankers. Removing it from an Orca to a Deep Space Transport makes it somewhat comparable to the current situation.
DST's align faster than Orca's, but can haul less. Their tanking ability should roughly be the same, but I'm no specialized Orca pilot, so I have to rely on the basic knowledge of the ship.
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Viscis Breeze
TriFlexure Void-Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:39:00 -
[128] - Quote
Kimo Khan wrote:Viscis Breeze wrote:Nicol Caius wrote:@Devs, please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec. I would at least like the option to turn it off. Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know?
Fair point.
Maybe a work around saying that the "cargo hold cannot be penetrated with your scanners" or "the cargo hold is empty" |

No0I3sTyLeI2
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:41:00 -
[129] - Quote
Well done CCP! Thank you! Excellent work! But... will u reimb my orca SPs, maybe? |

Kimo Khan
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:43:00 -
[130] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Kimo Khan wrote:Viscis Breeze wrote:Nicol Caius wrote:@Devs, please reconsider the unscannable bonus to the blockade runner. as others have said, its largely a determent to this ship class. my blockade runner will now be a target for just auto-piloting to jita empty. the best case scenario would be to give this bonus to the deep space transport. this would improve the usage of this ship class, isn't that way you guys are aiming for with all the other ship balancing changes? if this isn't possible, i suggest removing it altogether. i'd rather not have my expensive blockade runners being used as pinatas wherever i go to hi-sec. I would at least like the option to turn it off. Ok you turn it off with nothing in your cargo hold. Question: Is the cargo empty or blocked. How does the ganker know? Fair point. Maybe a work around saying that the "cargo hold cannot be penetrated with your scanners" or "the cargo hold is empty"
I think a better idea would be unscannable containers. Only usable on T2 Transport ships. So both the Blockade Runner and Deep Space Transport can use them but only if they want. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10469
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:50:00 -
[131] - Quote
Very nice changes.
i was a bid sad to see my Orca lose its secure transport role when it was announce, even though it was a very sensible change. But now that I'm being compensated with another ship doing the same thing, it's all good. Surprise buffs GÇö best buffs.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Daedra Blue
Atomic Biohazard
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 16:59:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Arrow wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote:I love this change - But plz don't ever, never do anything like this to my super organized and arranged corp hangars in stations which I put a lot of work into... No worries, the corp hangars will have their 7 divisions like before 
Which i personally think it sucks. I understood why it was like this at first it would have been ridiculous to display many hangers like TAB the way it used to be in the old UI but with the new UI you can now make the Division system the way it was suppose to be. A fixed number of 7 is such a poor excuse of having a bad UI to display a custom number of divisions.
You can now make the corp hanger everywhere customizable in 2 parts.
This is the time to mimic windows permissions and also a great time to start making some decent changes to the mess corporation rights/permissions management is.
Rights specific for hangars. - View -Yes\No - Take -Yes\No - Put - Yes\No (yeah having by default the right to dump trash into your hangers isn't great and it is a stupid idea.)
Create divisions: As many as you require. Division type: Global (In all corporate hangars) : Local (Just in that particular container) *Global divisions will show up in all containers to witch local divisions will add on a per container basis.
EX: Global Division - "Public" POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore" Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore" Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Refined Ore"
Right groups. Ex: Group - "Ore Miners" - Add division to group -> (Corp Divisions Explorer / with search and grouping by (location/type/etc.) ) To - POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes) Group - "Ore Transporters" To - POS Hangar Local Division - "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes) Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes) Group - "Ore Refiners" Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Unrefined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes) Station Hangar @ StationName Local Division "Refined Ore" - View(Yes)\Take(Yes)\Put(Yes)
Simply add people to the groups and all is fine. |

Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:00:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Crunac Arclight wrote:Nice changes, but why make the Blockade Runner's cargo unscannable?
It is already quite agile and cloaky enough to avoid trouble. It would make more sense to give this buff to the God-forsaken Deep Space Transports of which I have seen none to date. We did consider this and discussed it a fair bit. It was however determined that it fit the role of the blockade runner far more. We are aware of how... unpopular the deep space transports are however.
Never even tought to buy deep space transport over mammoth.. Dont see the point of whole ship class. But if you would give it like 50k m3 while fitted i might be intrested to buy one of those... |

Crexa
Star Mandate
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:06:00 -
[134] - Quote
"...but we need to get the complexity of EVE under control and doing so is going to require functionality downgrades in certain areas."
This scares the living Be-jesus out of me!!!!!!!!!!! Why? Because complexity is the hallmark of EvE Online. PLEASE! Keep in mind that streamlining for the sake of reducing complexity is not always a good thing. "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?" |

Prime FLux
The Rising Stars Initiative Mercenaries
38
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:08:00 -
[135] - Quote
Or why not make Cargohold / Fleethangar share the same cargospace volume. But dynamically distribute the volume between them.
That would allow us to keep our private stuff separated from those we want to share with fleet. |

Crexa
Star Mandate
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Crunac Arclight wrote:Nice changes, but why make the Blockade Runner's cargo unscannable?
It is already quite agile and cloaky enough to avoid trouble. It would make more sense to give this buff to the God-forsaken Deep Space Transports of which I have seen none to date. We did consider this and discussed it a fair bit. It was however determined that it fit the role of the blockade runner far more. We are aware of how... unpopular the deep space transports are however.
Could we possibly see, would it be, maybe a jump capability?!!? "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?" |

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1162
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:18:00 -
[137] - Quote
Quote:Ship maintenance bays are somewhat special: they will be scannable (ie, ships but not their modules or cargo can show up in results), but they won't be dropping assembled ships as loot
Will those ships show up as destroyed on the killmail? What about the contents and modules of those ships that also get destroyed? (Which is an important thing - if you're allowing players to pay out bounties to other players based on the destroyed value.) |

Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5621
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:20:00 -
[138] - Quote
One thing I've noticed from testing on Buckingham is that while one can drag modules from the cargohold to an empty module slot without opening the fitting window, it can't be done if the item is in the fleet hangar. Is there a possibility that this will be addressed? Having to open the fitting window when swapping capital-sized mods is tedious. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |

The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
Blockade Runner would have made a much more sensible choice for the unscannable bonus imo.
Also I am not sure I like where the changes to scanning and plastic wrapping is going, the following quote "We recognize the need for secure hauling in the current environment" is especially troubling. There are already several methods of secure hauling, you introducing more just means the idiots who don't know how to use them get away with their stupidity instead of learning about the harsh realities of a game like EVE. Please, no more hand holding. |

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1162
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:24:00 -
[140] - Quote
SwissChris1 wrote:"Blockade Runners are being updated to be immune to cargo scanners, and as such will always show up as empty on scans"
My issue with that is that:
- Blockade runners were already pretty good with their cloaking ability, fast align times, and tissue-paper tank.
- DSTs are still basically useless, because of warp bubbles and infinity-point HICs.
What's probably going to happen in the real world is that people will pop uncloaked B/Rs on the off-chance that they're carrying something valuable. The orca didn't have that issue because of the effort required to pop an orca. B/Rs, with their tiny tank, don't have that protection.
Flying a B/R will now require that you make 100% use of the cloak, insta-undock bookmarks, etc.
DSTs might have been the better choice for an unscannable cargo hold. |

Crexa
Star Mandate
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote:The freighter can carry MUCH more which means it is now the only viable choise for fleet mining. Sure, it's still fine for "solo" mining with a couple of alts. But when you have a dozen of ppl stripping the belt or gravy site - hauling Orca is totally useless now. Just explain - why? What was the backgroud of that decision?
You are right, if you ignore align time, acceleration, gang links and tractor beams. I'm not sure you've ever mined with a full set (or at least 2) mining links. This boosts your output by more than 30% (also depending on whether there's a supporting mind link as well) and is very significant making the Orca far from useless. You could use a Battlecruiser for this, but you'll also lose the hull's bonus. Using a Freighter just to collect or haul the ore back to station sounds feasible, but especially if it's in the same system, the Orca is still better for this - not just for the added tractor beams: it can zip back to station, drop the ore and be back in the belt boosting in 2 or 3 minutes. The freighter might need this time just for one trip (without the way back). A standard T1 industrial can carry like 40-50k m-¦ per run, so if one keeps moving back/forth the Orca should never get full. If it does, add another hauler. Either use the Orca as the hauler or use it as a collector/buffer for the real haulers.
The point that is being made is; If all the orca is for, is mining boosts, (which is all my fleet of 12 use it for). Then what is the point of such a large cumbersome ship?
"...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?" |

Daedalus II
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Crunac Arclight wrote:Nice changes, but why make the Blockade Runner's cargo unscannable?
It is already quite agile and cloaky enough to avoid trouble. It would make more sense to give this buff to the God-forsaken Deep Space Transports of which I have seen none to date. I agree with this. It was a perfect opportunity to give one of the less used ships their very own role, but instead you gave it to an already very secure hauler. |

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
350
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:27:00 -
[143] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:The only thing I would point out is that the loss of corporate hangers is going to be somewhat of a pain. On the Orca yes, but even more so on capital ships where the size of the hanger is limited + cans are in short supply, it's going to make separating items up a bigger pain. The best "technical" solution I could come up with would be selectable elastic containers: Quote:* Buy an "Elastic Shipping Container" for something like 10m ISK (affordable for those flying orcas / capitals) that has an packaged size of say 100 m3.
* You assemble it, and it turns it into an "ElasticContainerer100" with an initial volume of 100 m3.
* You fill it with items you wish to separate, a particular kind of module lets say, but need a bit more room.
* You click on it, select "resize to ..." and select a bigger size, let's say you want to store a couple of frigates along side the modules, so you select 10,000 m3.
* The servers check the size of the parent container to see if the new 10,000 m3 would fit, minus the existing container, and if it does you flip the TypeID to a new "ElasticContainer10000" type, copy / replace it if necessary, and move all the items over.
* Use them in that size as long as necessary. Maybe expand / reduce their size again multiple during the course of an op; maybe one fleet member is storing significantly more than another.
* Shrink them back down after their job is done provided their content is not oversized. This would:Quote:* Allow fleet hangers to have password protected cargo areas that could share space
* Not have to deal with the problems associated with shrink wrap; just spam TypeIDs for non-market containers and swap between them.
* Allow Orca / Carrier pilots to keep a few of these elastic containers always to hand to be use to partition their ships where necessary without having to haul empty cans just in case for no reason other than the code that handled a cargo bay having "dividing walls" needed to die (understandable). Caveats:Quote:* You do not need to spam hidden containers for every 100 m3 for the entire range, 25, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 7500, 10000, 15000, 20,000 etc.
* Removing the existing container from the DB and creating a new one with the same children and attributes (except TypeID) would be perfectly acceptable. If this means people have to re-open the can so be it.
* Repackaging them would return them back to a particular size "Elastic Shipping Container" which could then be sold on the market.
So CCP, a better idea than just removing them completely, no?
No.
The main reason behind removing the divisions in ship mounted corporate hangars was to reduce code complexity that had grown over years to become almost unmanageable.
Most likely partly down to the bright idea to reuse stationary corporate hangars on ships (and add a serious amount of hardcoded special cases to make it work (somewhat)).
And adding any form of elastic containers (automagically or manual) would add another special case so the server and all involved clients would re-sync correctly .
Most likely cause Team Gridlock to light their torches and go looking for someone to burn at the stake.
I'm fully aware of the many uses of the divisions on the Orca, have used them extensively and are sad to see them them go.
But the workarounds are acceptable and it's a price I'm willing to pay for cleaned up, functional and stable code.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
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Merouk Baas
27
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:29:00 -
[144] - Quote
Crexa wrote:The point that is being made is; If all the orca is for, is mining boosts, (which is all my fleet of 12 use it for). Then what is the point of such a large cumbersome ship?
That's the point of it.
It provides boosts, it tractors cans, and has some cargo hold for cases where you don't have a freighter available.
You may find it "useless" for you, but it's not useless for others. |

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1162
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:30:00 -
[145] - Quote
Salpad wrote: Why not just do a quick fix, and change the Deep Space Transport bonus to something useful? + to active shield tank is a very, very poor defensive bonus to have. Change it to +5% shield resists per level, or +5% armour resist for the armour tanking versions.
I'm pretty sure I've never trained my Transports skill above 1, even though I fly Blockade Runners quite a lot, and Deep Space Transports every so often, and the reason for that is that the effect of the Transports skill sucks.
Making the DSTs immune to bubbles like the T3 ships can might be a good adjustment to them. |

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1162
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:34:00 -
[146] - Quote
Kimo Khan wrote: I suspect it is more the idea that a Freighter can now do this. The orca can now just sit in a POS to give benefit, but does not even need to be present since the freighter can do all the hauling.
Or maybe CCP should bump up the ore volume on the Orca to something sizable like 500k m3, to give it back the premier role of being the mining fleet's logistic vessel. It's been sidelined already by the 35k m3 ore bay on the Mackinaw (which can also mine while it waits for enough ore to haul away.
(A 500k m3 ore bay on the Orca would also be a boon to w-space miners, making their logistics a bit easier.) |

Daedalus II
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
134
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:37:00 -
[147] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Quote:i can partially understand the freighter is a bigger hauler and can now pick stuff up in space part, but surely the main advatage to a mining fleet in belts etc.. is its extended tractor beam range that can pull in jet canned ore from a distance meaning less moving around in big clunky ships? fairly certain i read the devblog properly and didnt see anything about freighters using capital tractor beams or anything like that.
now: one orca for tractor beams and bonuses, one freighter for hauling before: one orca for tractor beams and bonuses, X orcas for hauling Then what are you complaining about?? You just got X-1 more pilots to do actual mining! |

Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
202
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:38:00 -
[148] - Quote
This is a really welcome change, I think blokade runners should also evade NPC's scanner... it would be fair!!!
Also these changes makes simpler and remove from the messed up Corp management a important feature of the game...
Now I just hope that you guys Revam the POS system soon, as the CSM is asking!!! for more info, read the topic related to pos in my signature.
And about the Hi-Sec freighter minning.... good luck with that... it gets stuck on roids too often... Please read this! > New POS system ( Block Built - Starbasecraft) Please read this! >-á[Debate] - ISK SINK |

SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
51
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
Once again you seem to be messing about with the game.
An orca has a far better tank than a frighter and is very usefull for a small corp, by the very nature of being fitable, fleet mining, hauling various items about . i have used it to swap ships, refit ships and it has some ability to fight back.
A frighter is more expensive, slower, and has a lot lower tank and only usefull to haul large quantities about..
Please stop trying to make every thing the same in the game, your already doing it on this next upgrade by making all the ships have rolls and fits, let people learn. and use thier imagination. We dont want every thing the same , predictable fits etc.
Its not all bad I am looking forward to the game enhancing upgrades on Dec 4th. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10469
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 17:50:00 -
[150] - Quote
SportBilly wrote:An orca has a far better tank than a frighter and is very usefull for a small corp, by the very nature of being fitable, fleet mining, hauling various items about . i have used it to swap ships, refit ships and it has some ability to fight back.
A frighter is more expensive, slower, and has a lot lower tank and only usefull to haul large quantities about.. GǪwhich makes them quite different in what they can and cannot do and not at all the same.
Quote:Please stop trying to make every thing the same in the game, GǪwhat what?! 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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