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Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 16:14:00 - [1] Just use an ArmageddonÖ Only ship we have left so use it till it gets nerfed. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 16:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Meridius on 02/05/2005 16:31:58 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Drone space please. Both the Sacrilege and the Zealot should have 1.000 m3. **** diversity, bring on balance. I disagree. I see Amarr ships as pure turret machines. It shouldn't have missles and it shouldn't have drones. It was given less turrets for a reason, this ship was created with 'overpowered' heavy pulse. Now they they are 'balanced'; it should get a 5th turret. Something needs to be done. Until then, Armageddon for the win It's ridiculous that non-amarr ships have more turrets in the first place. Minmatar, Gallente having more turrets as well as Caldari having the same amount throws RP out the door completely. As TomB put it a long time ago, amarr are the 'turret humpers' of eve. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Meridius on 02/05/2005 17:07:32 Originally by: Kaeten oo plz, what range do blasters have compared to pulses? oo plz, what damage to blasters do compared to pulses and you have an extra turret + 1000m3 of drones + around 550 more overall HP + an mwd bonus so you can use mwd plus tank + better armour resist bonus's ect ect. Originally by: F4ze 10-33km range for HPL II is right where a short range laser SHOULD be. If you want range, fit beams. Yes use beams and lose your 70m ship to an interceptor. Yes seriously, you won't be able to hit an inty period without a web and even that isn't 100% effective. If you use rails on a Deimos you have drones, if you use rails on an Eagle you missles, if you use howitzers on a Muninn you have drones + missles. A Zealot's core defense is it's turrets, it has nothing beyond that. Interceptors being as common as they are, if you do not have a setup that can properly deal with them, you will die. Sadly, it's far easier to just use a Armageddon. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 17:14:00 - [4] Originally by: F4ze I fought HAC vs HAC with Nilkarus in his Sacriledge using HPL II's and I used electron blaster II's. If he webs me @10km there is no way I can get in blaster range before I die, even if I have him webbed too. Throw me another one of your arguments please. Wait, did you get killed by a Sacrilege on the field? No you didn't, you got beaten by the ultimate tank cruiser in a controlled situation with a corp mate. That ship is near useless when it comes to pvp because it does less damage then a ***** Taranis. Oh but it can tank great, oh joy to the ***** world... The only reason it's gets any waves as being good is because of naive people getting impressed by the fact that it tanks so well. I bet if it had 1 turret point people would still sing love stories about it based souly on it's tanking ability. It's sad really. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 19:30:00 - [5] Edited by: Meridius on 02/05/2005 19:32:44 Originally by: Kaeten go train up gallante and see how blasters preform agisnt pulses. another pulse nerf whiner, how do oyu thin kwe felt when your pulses where ownining the battlefield, they ain't nerfed jsut BALANCED. If you want to be leet and uber go cheat in another game. Taranis = facerape inty, the best if not only 2nd to the crow. Don't argue, killboards agree with me. Thorax = king of cruisers, hands down Deimos = facerape Ishtar = EW + drone gang bang cruiser, it's drones alone do more damage then a full rack of heavy pulse II on a Zealot Yes, you get 2 great HAC's, one of the best inties and the best cruiser and you talk about hybrids sucking? Pulses never owned the battlefield, Armageddons did (and still do). This nerf was sloppy, anybody with half an IQ point can see that. Here is a point that not one person has been able to contest. To justify a pulse nerf you have to justify nerfing the punisher/crusader/malediction/retribution/vengeance/coercer/omen/maller/sacrilege/zealot. None of these ships were overpowered pre-nerf. Once again, killboard stats agree with me. Don't bother arguing. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Letifer Deus -Ishtar with 14x heavies and lvl4 drone skills does 296 dmg/sec, zealot with 4 heavy pulse II does 227 dmg/sec, so yeah, you're right. But I know that you know how unreliable drones are in combat. They can be shot and killed, they can be smartbombed. And 2 dmg mods will put you well over the drones damage. Wow, i didn't actually know it was that bad. I have to use 4 tech 2 guns and 2 tech 2 damage mods to outdamage an Ishtars drones which are only at lvl 4 Not even taking into account an ishtar can in fact fit some decent guns to add even more DPS as it gets a 25% dmg bonus Drones not reliable? I depend on drones quite a bit when using my arma, can't say i've ever had any problems with them being destroyed. The main problem i've had involves me leaving them when i have to warp out Oh, and medium drones + web = erased inty. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Gariuys But can't resist this one, OMG a interceptor using short range weapons has to fight inside web range? wow that's like amazing, none of the other interceptors need to do that... no sirrreeeee. I'd be fine fighting in a crusader at close range if i had 3 mids and 3 lows. Thats not the case and having inties warp out with like 20% hull has to be the most frustrating thing ever. Nothing makes you go limp faster then that :/ Thats why fighting above 10km is crucial in a Crusader. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:24:00 - [8] Originally by: LUKEC i just wonder how many inty pilots ever get webbed? none... so drones are not really solution vs inys, as lighs are more joke than not. No inties get webbed? Do you play EVE? ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Wouldn't it be better to just lower the drone bay of Thorax (and thus also it successor, the Deimos), like transfer part of that drone bay(1000m¦ of Thorax to Vexor, lower drone bay of Deimos to 500m¦) to the Vexor which is supposed to be drone king cruiser? Perhaps also raise Zealots drone bay to the level of the T1 Omen (300m¦), might not be much but its something, enough to fit 6 light drones. small boost to Zealot, nerf to thorax and deimos The Thorax should get a drone bay nerf, that's been a long time coming. I do not think the Deimos should get nerfed, it's fine as is. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Tragar Your forgetting everyone else has 5% dmg bonus per bs level added on top :\ The geddon has a 5% rof bonus and the apoc is the strongest bs tank. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 21:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Maya Rkell i am the bestest claw pilot in teh world Ok, please use something other then a Claw and maybe i'll actually read your post. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.02 23:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Meridius on 02/05/2005 23:44:50 Originally by: Seto Mazzarotto I hope the people reading this thread keep in mind that missiles, as they stand now, aren't behaving as they should. This whole motion prediction nonsense has got to go, and one shouldn't base ship balance around it. I hate to break it to you but missle balance has been in CCP's que for like a year. I will take things how they stand now and until CCP figures out what they are actually going to do with missiles. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 02:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Quote: 'bla bla Pulse Laser never hit inties bla bla not even when webbed' 2005.04.24 19:05:00 Victim: Shayla Sh'inlux Corporation: Millennium Destroyed Type: Taranis <-- look it's an Inty Solar System: SL-YBS System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Arathian Evasion (laid the final blow) Security Status: 1.0 Corporation: M. Corp Ship Type: Prophecy <-- look not even a HAC but a Proph Weapon Type: Heavy Pulse Laser II <-- look HPL II This was between 300m and 500m without me running MWD. It also was with a single (one; 1) target painter. Now stop whining. Who said heavy pulse can't hit an inty while webbed? I sure didn't. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 16:13:00 - [14] You know whats funny. After cruisers get an agility fix, the Deimos is going to kick even more ass because covering distance won't be such an issue. It will become more like a Crusader vs Taranis. ...except that this Taranis has a drone bay that matters, 500+ more HP, more guns, more cap and next to no MWD penalty... Gallente get 2 kick ass HACs, 1 EW ship that can still deal a great amount of damage and another that does a back breaking amount of damage. We had one good hac that nobody ever complained about being overpowered and it got nerfed. GG ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 16:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Darken Two That might be but lets worry about it when we get to it eh? Its like teh missile overhaul its always on teh horizon but never quite gets here. Well not quite, missile changes have been in que for like 1year+. TomB said that cruiser changes would be in with the next patch fairly recently ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 17:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Darken Two Comeon Meridius we both been playin this game long wnough to know what Tomb means when he says stuff like that. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 19:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Gariuys IF 500m3 drone bay is your defense against 2 interceptors, you're dead. That's where the argument for it fails. So far there's been no argument that holds ground for giving it a drone bay. Pulses where nerfed. So Zealot should get something else ( then why where pulses nerfed? ) Zealot can't defend against inties ( which ain't true, and 500m3 drone bay ain't gonna save you ) First off, i don't want a drone bay. Thats mundane. I do not mind being completely vulnerable to snipers as long as i have something to compensate for that. It's an Amarri ship, it needs more turrets or at the very least as many turrets as other races. The way RP has been thrown out the door is utter crap. Do you see Gallente ships with more launchers then Caldari? Do you see Amarr ships with bigger drone bays then the Gallente? Do you see any other class of ship where the Minmatar have more turrets then Amarr? No of course not, each race has it's thing. We are turret ***s. Pulses for nerfed for Zealot? Please do not tell me you actually believe the devs thought that every Amarr ship using pulses were overpowered. You really think they sat down and discussed how the punisher/malediction/crusader/retribution/vengeance/maller ect ect were overpowered? They didn't, it was a quick and sloppy nerf to please people whining about the Armageddon, you know, that 40page thread that had no mention of anything but the use of mega pulse on Armageddons. The Zealot is a ranged fighter, it is not meant to fight at close range. It gets a 10% range bonus per lvl so if the devs though heavy pulses for overpowered in terms of range why the ** did they give it that range bonus in the first place The Zealot should get a 5th turret, no drone bay, no missles and it's grid is fine as is. It will be able to mount a rack of heavy pulses but it won't be able to mount much else. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 19:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Darken Two I think the real problem with the 5th turret is what happens when people use 5 turrets and stack a **load of dmg mods in lows. That could cause a lot of imbalance. And I really dont want any kinda limit on how many dmg mods can be put on a ship. Maybe a good compromise would be to give it a bit more grid so it could fit beams but then deimos users would be ed that they cant fit a full rack of neutrons. A fifth turret would give it a greater damage output then a Deimos in full gank setup. It comes with penalties, want to hear? Less cap, lowest resist is thermal which is the most common damage type in game, no defense, less 1000m3 drone bay, 718.75 less hp. 718.75** less HP. All for 5km more range, sounds balanced to me. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 19:44:00 - [19] Originally by: LUKEC jaik... 5more km with multis... and 10 with xray... and 24 with microwave... sounds like all in wonder... and now you want 5. gun and possibly some more dmg... c'mon Wow and microwave does really good damage right? EM armor hardner > lasers You guys might want to check crystal stats again, you'll see that thermal damage has gone down the tube and EM is up. This makes tanking against lasers ridiculously easy on armor. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 20:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Gariuys Edited by: Gariuys on 03/05/2005 19:59:42 Nope if you're using microwave in pulses, you should be using beams. But you can go too 24km and still do damage, try that with blasters. And tanking explosive is ridiculously easy on shields. Your point? That lasers against people that armor tank and fit a EM hardener specifically to reduce damage from lasers don't take much damage from low damage ( EM heavy ) crystals. Whats more common, explosive or thermal? They are on opposite sides of the spectrum ffs. EMP, minmatards most used ammo does 45% EM with the rest split between explosive and kinetic. Amarr don't deal explosive. Gallente don't deal explosive. So yeah, i have great resists to the least common damage type ingame, yay. So yes i am going to use this because everything factors into balance, especially something as significant as this. Amarr hacs are the only ones not to get any racial bonus to thermal. You should know this stuff ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.03 23:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Morimo Gariushi Cos no minnie hac can fit a full load of 720's without pg mods, and thats without putting anything in mids or lows. 1) There is no cruiser sized Tachyon Beam (wish there was). 2) You get missles and drones for frigate defense 3) You can fit 4x 720 IIs w/out grid upgrades, the same amount we can ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.05.04 03:38:00 - [22] Edited by: Meridius on 04/05/2005 03:37:59 Originally by: Letifer Deus Not to mention whining that Deimos has more HP than zealot is utterly stupid. Compare Zealot hp to Ishtar or Vagabond HP. And compare Sac HP to Deimos... Why? They are both damage dealing ships. The Sacrilege is a piece of ****, also. Only naive people get impressed by its tanking ability. We really only have 1 usefull HAC. I know the Deimos and Ishtar rock, i've heard people say good things about the Muninn and Vagabond. You know the Eagle is good and the Cerb = missile changes. ________________________________________________________

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