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Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
0
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the current changes to Cruisers and Battlecruisers, specifically the powergrid loss for various medium modules (arty, beams and heavy pulses), along with the changes to H/Ms and the loss of around 15% of the Hurricane's powergrid (225 grid), as well as the changes to ASB's, how do you see the current B/C balance changing?
In my (inexpert) opinion, we're going to see a lot less Hurricanes, and what we do see will be Shield and/or Nanofits. SeeBoing ArtyCanes may also become surprisingly popular. The Cyclone is taking a minor nerf with the ASB changes, but should still remain functional.
The Drake is going to be fine, with the Tech 2 missile changes cancelling out the nerfs to H/Ms, though hopefully we'll also see a few more brawlDrakes fitted with HAM's as well. The Ferox, I cannot genuinely see any notable change to.
The Harbinger is one we may be seeing a lot more of, with it's upcoming pwg requirements nerf. Might be a fun little beast to try out. Unsure how it's Tier 1 counterpart will fare, but hopefully, again, we will be seeing more of it.
As for the Gallente, I am even more ignorant of their fate. The Myrmidon and Brutix should, theoretically, remain unchanged, though with the ArmourCane's nerf we may see an increasing role for the Brutix as a heavy brawler. The Myrm, well, she's an odd (and cool-looking) beast but I don't see her changing much, aside from seeing more use in general.
The Tier 3s should be just fine, probably coming out stronger with the various nerfs to their Tier 2 and 1 contenders. But I don't fly Tier 3s that much, so I can hardly claim any great authority here.
HAC pilots may rejoice a little, their days of being whelped by Battlecruisers...well, I don't think they're over, but the contention might be a little less lopsided.
Cruiser pilots, especially kiting cruiser pilots, are going to have it a bit easier against their bigger brothers.
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Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment
THE ROYAL NAVY
103
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Small stealth buff to the Myrmidon in the patch notes, gate guns will no longer target drones
I know my shield cane will be sad tomorrow, I still can't decide whether to drop a gun size or a neut size. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
254
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
759
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not only obvious but also partially confirmed by CCP as to what to expect. Tier one BC are getting a buff. The Ferox and Brutix can expect an extra slot (16 to 17). The Prophecy is becoming a drone boat an probably staying at 16 slots. The Cyclone, which already has 17 slots, is probably losing the mixed weapon platform. Expect bonuses and layout to change.
Tier 2 BC are getting nerfed. Expect all of them to lose a slot. This would put them all from 18 to 17 slots except for the Myrm which would be at 16 like the Prophecy. Expect bonuses and layouts to change, albeit less so then Tier one.
Tier 3 - all 17 slot layouts, will have their mobility slightly nerfed. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.12.03 19:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kamenev Drang wrote:With the current changes to Cruisers and Battlecruisers, specifically the powergrid loss for various medium modules (arty, beams and heavy pulses), along with the changes to H/Ms and the loss of around 15% of the Hurricane's powergrid (225 grid), as well as the changes to ASB's, how do you see the current B/C balance changing?
You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.
Quote:In my (inexpert) opinion, we're going to see a lot less Hurricanes, and what we do see will be Shield and/or Nanofits. SeeBoing ArtyCanes may also become surprisingly popular. The Cyclone is taking a minor nerf with the ASB changes, but should still remain functional.
Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.
As long as Brutix is only good for mining barges/freighters ganks, battlecruisers will not be balanced and seems this was what this iteration was about, balancing those.
Then we no longer will have Tiers but role ships, and this is when I'm happy for having them all.
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Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 19:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:[
You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.
10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits.
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.
The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.12.03 19:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kamenev Drang wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:[
You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.
10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits. Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.
The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit.
Well, 220's instead of 425's or 800 instead of 1600 means only this ship now requires some decisions, this is good.
Which other ship had more pg/cpu than it could use all fitted? -none
Once again I think this will change nothing about what you can do with but just bring it on pair with other bc's. Hurricane was far too good at everything: lots of high's, lots of mids and lows hell sometimes for trolling CCP some of us even asked more mids/lows to use all the pg/cpu available. I think this was a good decision from CCP. |
Herr Hammer Draken
167
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 02:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
BC's are going to have the major rebalance in the next summer update. These are just a few minor changes happening now to BC's. It is much too early to be deciding upon which BC to fly after the rebalance as they are not being done now.
Herr Hammer Draken
"The Amarr Prophet" |
Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
1
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Kamenev Drang wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:[
You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.
10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits. Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.
The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit. Well, 220's instead of 425's or 800 instead of 1600 means only this ship now requires some decisions, this is good. Which other ship had more pg/cpu than it could use all fitted? -none Once again I think this will change nothing about what you can do with but just bring it on pair with other bc's. Hurricane was far too good at everything: lots of high's, lots of mids and lows hell sometimes for trolling CCP some of us even asked more mids/lows to use all the pg/cpu available. I think this was a good decision from CCP.
It's a fairly significant nerf. I'll freely admit to being something of a Hurricane jockey, but now neither the 425/buffer/neut cane is very viable, nor is the 1600+220 Cane. And having to drop a plate size and a gun size is hardly a decision, it's just an automatic downgrade.
The Drake, on the other hand, hasn't really had a significant nerf to it's tank, and while H/Ms are being nerfed, the Tech 2 missile buff will more than make up for that.
As for other BC's, again, freely admit I don't fly them yet as I don't have the skills.
The Harbinger is looking very tempting with the grid reduction to all it's guns. The Myrm I'd always been interested in, though I need the drone skills. |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
Brothers of Apocrypha.
89
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:BC's are going to have the major rebalance in the next summer update. These are just a few minor changes happening now to BC's. It is much too early to be deciding upon which BC to fly after the rebalance as they are not being done now.
I don't think it's going to be this summer, remember the warning that the destroyer and BC skill changes were going to happen after the BC balance was done, and that for those with out V in them may want to do so soon. I am thinking late winter or early spring myself
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Recoil IV
Black Rain Cartel
48
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Posted - 2012.12.04 18:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.
wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc
same goes for pretty much any cane standard fitt. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
13
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Posted - 2012.12.04 19:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want. wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc same goes for pretty much any cane standard fitt.
Drop a medium neut for a small maybe? |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
850
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Posted - 2012.12.04 19:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Recoil IV wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want. wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc.
That's cause you're asking way too much in the first place. Ever tried fitting a NH? That's how all ships should be designed - struggling to cram stuff into ships and thus having to make trade-offs is exactly the reason why we need CPU and grid concepts in this game.
14 |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
780
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Posted - 2012.12.04 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Recoil IV wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want. wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc. That's cause you're asking way too much in the first place. Ever tried fitting a NH? That's how all ships should be designed - struggling to cram stuff into ships and thus having to make trade-offs is exactly the reason why we need CPU and grid concepts in this game.
Using the Nighthawk as a template might be a bit extreme but I have to agree with this in principle. The 'cane was too easy to fit with all the damn goodies you might want. Now it's not. |
Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
3
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, now it's impossible to fit with...well, anything.
And so the Drake becomes king? |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2012.12.05 23:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nighthawk will be interesting in a year, although I'm not sure how it'll be different from the redesigned claymore. Both will be shield missile boats, but the claymore will be faster and have a different shield bonus.
I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Squirrel Horde
Habitat Against Humanity
126
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I want to see the brutix lose its armor rep bonus, honestly. It would be brilliant with a falloff or tracking bonus instead. There's no point in having TWO BCs with an active tank bonus, IMO.
Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if you strapped a beehive to Robocop. |
Alara IonStorm
3714
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Nighthawk will be interesting in a year, although I'm not sure how it'll be different from the redesigned claymore. Both will be shield missile boats, but the claymore will be faster and have a different shield bonus.
I would assume there would be a slot disparity, Probably one extra +1 to the Nighthawk, +1 Low to the Claymore.
I also I would not be surprised if the Nighthawk gets exp velocity changed to 10% missile velocity The Claymore might get a painting bonus instead like the HAM Bellicose. Last I heard they are deciding whether to put one on the Cyclone or makes its bonuses like the Breacher. I don+¿t think it will have enough mids though to make use of it so I kind of hope for Explosion Velocity.
That would make the Hawk a Range Dmg Application Brick while the Claymore would be fast and suited to applying it.
Claymore
5% Missile Dmg
7.5% Shield Boost Amount
5% Explosive Dmg
7.5% Painter or 5% Explosion Velocity
8 highs (7 Launchers) / 5 mids / 5 lows / 40m3 Drone Space.
Nighthawk
5% Missile Dmg
5% Shield Resists
5% Kinetic Dmg
10% Missile Velocity
8 highs (7 Launchers) / 6 mids / 4 lows / 25m3 Drone Space.
Something like that I imagine. If I got the mid / low slot count right.
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Alara IonStorm
3714
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:I want to see the brutix lose its armor rep bonus, honestly. It would be brilliant with a falloff or tracking bonus instead. There's no point in having TWO BCs with an active tank bonus, IMO.
I personally think they will Domi / Vexor the Myrmidon and bring the Brutix up like a mini Hyperion. |
Lord Calus
Fractured Core
Fatal Ascension
61
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Posted - 2012.12.05 23:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Call the press, the world is ending. The hurricane can't have its' cake and eat it too!! |
Byzan Zwyth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.05 23:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
I've thought for a long time that their should be some love for the tier 1 BC's
The logical change in my opinion would be to slightly reduce the sig radius and slightly increase the base speed of the Tier 1 BC's so they are in effect a little smaller and faster than the tier 2 BC's, maybe a little lighter as well?
That would make sense to me, currently the Tier 2's are basically better in every way. |
Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 00:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Byzan Zwyth wrote:I've thought for a long time that their should be some love for the tier 1 BC's
The logical change in my opinion would be to slightly reduce the sig radius and slightly increase the base speed of the Tier 1 BC's so they are in effect a little smaller and faster than the tier 2 BC's, maybe a little lighter as well?
That would make sense to me, currently the Tier 2's are basically better in every way.
Aside from the fact an ASB-fit Cyclone can still eat one for breakfast. |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
145
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Posted - 2012.12.06 00:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kamenev Drang wrote:The Ferox, I cannot genuinely see any notable change to.
Correct. It still makes a great gas mining platform. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
Tribal Band
6
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Posted - 2012.12.06 10:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
And the hurricane's gas sucking performance isn't reduced aswell :D |
Robert Lefcourt
Audentia et Artis
E.B.O.L.A.
11
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Posted - 2012.12.06 11:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:I want to see the brutix lose its armor rep bonus, honestly. It would be brilliant with a falloff or tracking bonus instead. There's no point in having TWO BCs with an active tank bonus, IMO.
Especially regarding the fact, that active armor sucks in combination with turrets that need cap too.
regards,
rob |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.12.06 13:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Robert Lefcourt wrote:
Especially regarding the fact, that active armor sucks in combination with turrets that need cap too.
regards,
rob
Well, judging by what the devs said about the harbinger in their balancing blog, CCP will likely be improving armor tanking at the same time they balance the battlecruisers. I wouldn't mind the brutix becoming something like the current incursus. That way it doesn't become a less DPS version of the talos. In terms of their new system, brutix and myrmidon would be combat and the talos would be attack.
I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Maeltstome
The Burning Red
137
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 14:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kamenev Drang wrote:No, now it's impossible to fit with...well, anything.
And so the Drake becomes king?
Drake always has been king. It's my most flown ship and i've only owned one for 6 months. They dont die and the project amazing damage.
Now they Do even more damage. |
Kamenev Drang
Sacred Templars
Unclaimed.
4
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Posted - 2012.12.06 15:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Kamenev Drang wrote:No, now it's impossible to fit with...well, anything.
And so the Drake becomes king? Drake always has been king. It's my most flown ship and i've only owned one for 6 months. They dont die and the project amazing damage. Now they Do even more damage.
Yeah. It was just nice when the Hurricane was even something of a contender. Now ALL the Tier 1/2 BC's have been nerfed into awfulness, save the Drake (and possibly the Cyclone).
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Praxis Ginimic
76
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm a bit butt hurt that the cane got a Nerf before I managed to spec med AC's but I'm really exceed to try out a dual web nano HAM drake paired with a heavy tackle enyo or vengence. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates
Nyanpire
224
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Posted - 2012.12.06 16:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kamenev Drang wrote:Byzan Zwyth wrote:I've thought for a long time that their should be some love for the tier 1 BC's
The logical change in my opinion would be to slightly reduce the sig radius and slightly increase the base speed of the Tier 1 BC's so they are in effect a little smaller and faster than the tier 2 BC's, maybe a little lighter as well?
That would make sense to me, currently the Tier 2's are basically better in every way. Aside from the fact an ASB-fit Cyclone can still eat one for breakfast.
Aye, so can an active tanked brutix 1v1 , doesn't mean it's balanced though.
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