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FluffyDice
Psykotic Meat
Fatal Ascension
241
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Posted - 2012.12.04 16:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Why did the safety setting not protect him? If you have it set to green you should not be able to do anything that makes you a suspect.
I don't know. Maybe he's ******** and switched it off. Either way I'm done with this topic. Thanks for helping me to understand the mechanics better. I think the design could use a little work but it is definitely a step in the right direction as far as removing invulnerable neutral assistance. |
Pohbis
110
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Posted - 2012.12.04 16:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
FluffyDice wrote:Oh definitely. Safe neutral assistance should never be in the game. I just think a solution which makes the repper/booster a free for all target is a poor one. I do agree that the 'suspect' solution could use refinement.
Somehow, it's just not possible atm to have the repper tagged for all the limited engagements the receiver is involved in.
If the suspect flag wasn't there, CCP would simply have swapped one "neutral" exploit for another. So for now, we have to live with it.
And hey, opening more people up to pew pew isn't the worst thing 
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1210
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Posted - 2012.12.04 16:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Ravnik wrote:FluffyDice wrote:>I shoot suspect, suspect able to shoot me in return.
>I receive help, suspect able to shoot my help.
Seems more logical and less confusing than:
>I shoot suspect, suspect able to shoot me in return.
>I receive help, help is now able to be shot by everyone.
But hey that's just me. Thanks for explaining the mechanics to me anyways. I guess the problem is if you shoot suspect, he shoots you, someone boosts you, then suspect has 2 ships to deal with. Someone then reps you both, suspect now has 3 targets to deal with. It could soon spiral out of control and end up as a big gank. The new mechanics is to stop this happening. Except they can all shoot the suspect then rep each other freely to start with.
Yeah, it would seem a better game behavior would be: If I assist someone I inherent all their flags, suspect, criminal, and all limited engagement flags. That way if you shoot a suspect and I help you, I get a limited engagement vs the suspect too.
Except in the case of helping someone at war. There a full suspect flag would be in order.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
778
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Posted - 2012.12.04 17:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Doddy wrote:Ravnik wrote:FluffyDice wrote:>I shoot suspect, suspect able to shoot me in return.
>I receive help, suspect able to shoot my help.
Seems more logical and less confusing than:
>I shoot suspect, suspect able to shoot me in return.
>I receive help, help is now able to be shot by everyone.
But hey that's just me. Thanks for explaining the mechanics to me anyways. I guess the problem is if you shoot suspect, he shoots you, someone boosts you, then suspect has 2 ships to deal with. Someone then reps you both, suspect now has 3 targets to deal with. It could soon spiral out of control and end up as a big gank. The new mechanics is to stop this happening. Except they can all shoot the suspect then rep each other freely to start with. Yeah, it would seem a better game behavior would be: If I assist someone I inherent all their flags, suspect, criminal, and all limited engagement flags. That way if you shoot a suspect and I help you, I get a limited engagement vs the suspect too. Except in the case of helping someone at war. There a full suspect flag would be in order.
But then you have the never ending chain of LE's that CCP is trying to get away from:
Old Crime watch:
I shoot A. A shoots back. B reps me, A can shoot B. C reps B, A can shoot B. and on and on into some twisted pretzels.
Now:
I shoot A. A shoots back. B reps me, and can be shot by everyone.... Or B shoots A, A can shoot B. B can then rep me without going suspect as long as I don't shoot someone else... This is fair, even if it's slightly less intuitive. It doesn't chain out of control into awkward situations, and it keeps all flags 1 to 1.
Finally, use the safety setting if you are afraid of going suspect.... (and let your friend die.... )
No more cowardly logistics... Logi's are now balls-to-the-walls committed to a fight!!! |
Sentamon
298
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Posted - 2012.12.04 17:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Safeties OFF.
Shoot everyone.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2012.12.04 17:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
So let's say....
A and B are at war. C is neutral rep alt. A and B start shooting each other. C reps B. A and B are not in a "limited engagement", right?
So C is or is not flagged as suspect for remote repping?
Is C still flagged for A's corp to shoot? I thought they got rid of the entity to entity flags in favor of universal flags?
Who can shoot at C in this case? No one? A's corp/alliance? Anyone?
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Dark Assassin15
Failed Diplomacy
99
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Posted - 2012.12.04 18:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
This Thread Deserves a "Working as intended" reply.
Make it so #1
[img]http://www.invokemethod.com/repo/failedsig.png[/img] |
Elevorot
Psykotic Meat
Fatal Ascension
4
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Posted - 2012.12.05 01:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:So let's say....
A and B are at war. C is neutral rep alt. A and B start shooting each other. C reps B. A and B are not in a "limited engagement", right?
So C is or is not flagged as suspect for remote repping?
Is C still flagged for A's corp to shoot? I thought they got rid of the entity to entity flags in favor of universal flags?
Who can shoot at C in this case? No one? A's corp/alliance? Anyone?
The point of this thread is that this pertains to hunting criminals, not warfare. In a wartime scenario, neutral assistance does and should flag involved parties as targets. In the hunting of criminals, it seems awkward at best that supporting in the destruction of a suspected criminal would in turn make you a criminal.
This is especially true in Jita, where massive firepower often destroys craft before everyone can get a shot off. If you're in a small fleet camping an undock or gate, and have assistance modules like remote sensor boosters, suddenly you can find yourself a target of everyone for the simple fact that you didn't get a shot off on a target and boosted a friend.
I guess CCP is trying to promote the 'lone gunslinger' image when it comes to taking down criminals as opposed to enforcing a semblance of justice here. |
Angeal MacNova
9th Fleet-Seraphins
41
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Posted - 2012.12.05 01:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
I could be mistaken but....
If you and the logi were in a fleet together and you engage a suspect, the suspect engages back, doesn't that mean that your logi partner is now open to engagement and can thus come to your aid against the suspect without being flagged?
After all, if the logi is set up for just boosting and has no offensive capabilities, it would be impossible for this person to engage the suspect first before giving aid to the ally. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
58
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Posted - 2012.12.05 01:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
holy **** these engagement rules have become over complicated....?
o/ |
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