This statement makes no sense....

While the time to down an Orca (40-60s) is reasonable, given a gank fit BS and a completely untanked (no dcu) Orca. I don't understand what is moot?

I realize that understanding what is happening and reacting takes a few seconds, but getting a corp mate to uncloak in a falcon and jam a BS, getting a corpmate to switch to the griffin and jam that ship doesn't take 40 seconds... (unless you are afk). I think I understand now... for some reason you think you need to kill the BS to save the Orca... this is not the case, you only need to Jam the BS so the orca can get away....

Miner's don't need to take out the BS first and foremost.... They could all release EC drones (the orca too) and have them jam out the BS.... You only need to initially get away and then you can regroup and decide how to deal with the "rotten apple". As ShahFluffers pointed out, that should be your strategy....

You know, you first asked: "Perhaps someone can explain why this is perfectly acceptable or how one might avoid this kind of abuse."
I posted several reasons why it is useful... which you completely ignored....
I posted several ways you can protect yourself... which you completely ignored...
I then asked you extremely pertinent questions as to "why this should be changed"....

And your only response was essentially: EvE laws, and hence it's mechanics, should enforce morally and economically fair behavior... which is a fluff answer... You haven't presented a compelling argument as to why it's a problem. Sure, you've posted that some people have suffered losses do to this mechanic... but so what.... but people suffer losses do to Scamming, Corp Thievery, Suicide Ganking, Piracy, Extortion, and much and more... and CCP has a long history of not only allowing that behavior, but promote it in their game.

And look, Shah Fluffers just posted another reason to allow in-corp aggresssion...

So, why don't you take a step back and focus:
Explain how the situation is unmanageable? And more precisely, explain why the ways you can currently protect yourself are inadequate.

I would like anyone who has thoughts on how Corporation members killing another Corp members Orca or other high priced industry ship is "Combat mechanics working as intended." I understand corporation members allowed to engage in combat, perhaps for practice or what have you. But A disgruntled corporation members getting a free Orca kill or taking out a mining fleet? And nothing you can do except hold the memory hard in your heart and never talk to other players? This type of behavior kills relationships with other players.

Though I have never lost an Orca, I have seen examples of this kind of abuse and find it disturbing that there is nothing to really be done except forget about recruiting for corporations. Perhaps someone can explain why this is perfectly acceptable or how one might avoid this kind of abuse.

And yes, it is abuse. Scoring free kills because of a "Lolz, you let me in your corp" gets around the mystical ever watchful eye of CONCORD.

I would think CONCORD would respond to non-combat vessels in distress... or why bother having them in the first place?


Edit: I might add, with the new safety feature, the excuse of friendly fire accidently Concording them shouldn't be a problem anymore.

As a pilot who actively ganks corpmate orcas and other ships, I disagree with any change to the current system.

Everytime I gank a corpmate, it's always in highsec and their ships always have little or no defenses. No corpmates standing by in combat ships, no offensive drones, no ewar, no reps, no logistics. Nothing. Your ships are fitted and designed to yield maximum mining efficiency and minimal defense.

You highsec miners just assume you're safe in highsec so you neglect even the most basic precautions. An Orca fitted with an ECM module or ECM drones would've haulted my assault easily. Offensive drones could have driven me away in sufficient quantity.

Inviting a brand new corp member to a mining fleet with multiple Orcas on the field is a bad call. In several instances I was even told which pilots were in Orcas and which ones to warp to zero. New members should be on a probationary status. You shouldn't straight up invite new members to your fleet within the first ten seconds of them joining.

Run background checks. I make little attempt to hide my intentions and actions. A simple 5 minute check would've reveled to any CEO what shenanigans I'm up to. Even as I write this, I'm looking for another naive highsec mining corp to join, gank and hold hostage. If you're a CEO of a highsec mining corp I'm trying to join and you somehow miss this posting, then you deserve to get ganked.

There was only one case where my attempts to gank a mining fleet were thwarted. Multiple hulks and Orcas were in the belt, but there was also a PvP fitted Domi. The Domi was there to take care of belt rats, offer remote reps, salvage, and most importantly deploy combat drones. His T2 heavies tore my hurricane to shreds and I escaped at 20% hull.

TL;DR - You're not safe in highsec and you're not safe from your own corpmates. Prepare accordingly.

First post all week that's meant anything to me. Thank you for your input.

Though I've never lost an Orca, and I still think the mechanic should be changed, at least someone's experiences might help shape recruitment policy.

Maybe corporation members shouldn't be allowed to shoot each-other in highsec, still stands that regardless of where you go risk can happen.

Furthermore if they gunning for you, if you run the corp, boot them, if you not, quit. Play with people you trust, once you got captials period, and don't have a alt account (or lazy, want to save time) and use others cyno chars in corp or alliance it is all trust, if the person I know cynos me into a hostile POS with gank fleet, that is my problem, and not ccps.

Freedom is the name of the game, security and morality are gotten with smart decisions. Personally I only trust people who have been in a corp for a year to 6 months for cynoing.

Works as intended. Be careful who you trust and who you **** off. Same thng as making a guy a director, then crying if he takes your stuff after you **** him off. You trusted them...your fault, not ccps.

Though true, I was not complaining about all possible trust issues. Just one mechanic that I think should be fixed.

Why did you join a corp full of members that would attack you? And now you are blaming CCP for this. . . .You sound like the kind of person that would deserve to get your ships killed.

I think its illogical to keep something that's only existence is to make life harder. Doesn't add value to game play and will only cause management issues and headaches.

^ Removing a mechanic that only occurs a percentage of the time and wouldn't effect the game in a negative way for any of the people complaining about this, but improve the game for the people who are affected by it... Yeah I see why I need to explain my proof even further.

The only purpose of the Corporation Kill Mechanic seems to be to allow for abuse. And though players are forced to find ways to deal with it, still doesn't seem to be any evidence that it's existence is good, beneficial, or logical.

The one argument was friendly fire, which Retribution has made moot. So, I ask again, why should this not be revisited? If not across the board, at least where Industrial vessels are concerned.


Taking advantage of this in the past does not mean it should continue for the rest of the game.

The "aggression against corp mechanics" is all we have left to web orcas/freighters in high sec

No one is blaming anyone here. I'm simply stating the opinion that this mechanic is outdated and not needed.

The biggest -gameplay- reason for Corp killing to happen was friendly fire concording players for accidently hitting a corpmate.

This is no longer the case, and I feel the only thing it serves now is abuse.


Not a lot of ways to interrupt this... but everyone is going to get upset anyways I suppose.

You don't need to web an orca...

You don't need to web an orca...

Yeah tell that to my friends who have saved their orca in a C4 coming from a C2 connector. Orca got the web insta warp, bad guy fleet jumped in as soon as it got off. (granted this wasn't in high sec.)

It still helps the Orca move faster in high sec to web it.

Doesn't add value to game play

But A disgruntled corporation members getting a free Orca kill or taking out a mining fleet? And nothing you can do except hold the memory hard in your heart and never talk to other players?

anymore.

I still think your average battleship will take an Orca down in aprox. 40-55 seconds. Meaning, protection is moot coming from anyone in your corp who would only have to lightly tank the BS to kill it.

If everyone wants to continue to work around this rather than fix it, fine. Seems to be popular opinion (at least of players checking this thread.)

I think its illogical to keep something that's only existence is to make life harder. Doesn't add value to game play and will only cause management issues and headaches.

But why look at it from that point of view?

It's always been this way, better to keep it.