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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
448
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Posted - 2012.12.10 01:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
One of the biggest demand drivers in the game that is pushing mineral prices up is supercap mfg. The null sec guys don't want to talk about it, and CCP stopped publishing numbers on supercaps May 29th of this year.
But have a look at a Nyx BPO. You can make approx 1000 BC's for every Nyx out there.
I did an analysis and posted it weeks ago based on the May 29th snapshot of supercaps in the game. I lowballed the mineral requirements, but based on the Jita sell prices that day, there was 134 Trillion in minerals tied up in the supercap hulls. That was just the hulls. And that was 6 months ago.
Imagine how many more supercaps have been cranked out now that null is a blue fest and CSAA's are much safer than they wee 6 months ago. |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
7
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Posted - 2012.12.10 02:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Knownasthatguy wrote:
I have the sense to think that CCP want's you to buy more than one account, they want you to buy plexes/gtcs to keep up with the inflation of pvp, and there is no motive to change it.
Lol.... your 2 cents are not worth the cheap metal they are stamped on. |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.12.10 03:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Knownasthatguy wrote:
I priced the build cost at roughly 57M Jita market prices are 45M, how can this be?
Surely this is good news for the buyer? If someone wants to sell below "production" price, it's their loss.
Also, minerals used to be a lot cheaper when drone alloys existed. Nowadays, someone actually has to mine that shi.. Trit. |
Indecisive Cid
Intergalactic Expedition Division
107
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Skydell wrote:As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.
Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out. While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks. ? Stealth nerfed? Do I really need to spell it out for you? Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge. They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result.
so then what is the point of repoc, IXD |
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
141
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Indecisive Cid wrote:Skydell wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Skydell wrote:As more and more stuff gets stealth nerfed to 40% reproc, it will only get worse.
Our 'emergent' game play 'emerges' when a new patch comes out. While I do agree with you on manipulation, it's broader and doesn't really apply in the case of minerals. I'd speculate and say we are just now running out of drone region stocks. ? Stealth nerfed? Do I really need to spell it out for you? Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge. They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result. so then what is the point of repoc,
Just something else to feed the nerf bat. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
303
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Posted - 2012.12.18 18:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Toroup wrote:So much missing information here (I particularly love the first reply about tears - which is less than worthless).
Mineral requirements for the Hurricane increased with the last patch so what everyone did was run a crap load of prepatch Hurricanes at the lower requirements and flooded the market. The same thing happened with mining barges last patch. I think that Retrievers are still selling for lower than the build value because of the backlog.
If you buy one now and reprocess it, it will reprocess at the original mineral value and not the higher amount - the missing materials are considered "extra" - this was done so that people couldn't make a ton of them prepatach and then make isk reprocessing them.
So, long answer to a short question, building new Hurricanes now will be a loss. The price will increase as the flooded market is bought out but there is no telling how long that will be.
I was not aware hurricanes were changed yet. Mining barges, Frigates and cruisers have been changed. Battlecruisers, i.e. hurricanes, and battleships are to be changed on the next pass.
By the time teiricide is done all ships should be reprocessing at about 40% of their build cost. This is not a huge issue as most ships are built to get blown up not reprocessed. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
1010
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Posted - 2012.12.18 19:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:One of the biggest demand drivers in the game that is pushing mineral prices up is supercap mfg. The null sec guys don't want to talk about it, and CCP stopped publishing numbers on supercaps May 29th of this year.
But have a look at a Nyx BPO. You can make approx 1000 BC's for every Nyx out there.
I did an analysis and posted it weeks ago based on the May 29th snapshot of supercaps in the game. I lowballed the mineral requirements, but based on the Jita sell prices that day, there was 134 Trillion in minerals tied up in the supercap hulls. That was just the hulls. And that was 6 months ago.
Imagine how many more supercaps have been cranked out now that null is a blue fest and CSAA's are much safer than they wee 6 months ago.
Supercaps, even at their peak (around October or November of last year, just before the supercarrier nerfs) were never more than about 10% of production. The supercarrier nerf dropped production of them by 80%, and it's probably safe to assume that titans dropped by a similarly drastic amount.
Even at the peak (approx. 1 titan and two supercarriers a day) the combined consumption of tritanium by all supercap production was less than half of what's used for battleships and battlecruisers. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
114
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Posted - 2012.12.19 14:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:I was not aware hurricanes were changed yet. Mining barges, Frigates and cruisers have been changed. Battlecruisers, i.e. hurricanes, and battleships are to be changed on the next pass. To be more precisely correct: Tech 1 frigates and cruisers were changed. Tech 2 and faction variants of frigates and cruisers have yet to be touched, and to my knowledge there's no stated timeline for them (but I could easily be wrong). The tech 1 battlecruisers and battleships are (allegedly) up next, but I don't know that CCP has committed to including them in the very next release. Would the next release be prior to this year's 10-year anniversary Fanfest? If so, CCP may have some other special project(s) which could bump BC/BS changes to the following (Summer?) release.
corestwo wrote:Even at the peak (approx. 1 titan and two supercarriers a day) the combined consumption of tritanium by all supercap production was less than half of what's used for battleships and battlecruisers. If you're trying to soft peddle the amount of minerals consumed by supercapitals, saying that they amount to less than half of what's used by the largest consumer of minerals (BC/BS) is underwhelming. I wish the economy folks at CCP would publish a pie chart showing mineral consumption distribution. Or several pie charts, one per period for the last several quarters.
MDD
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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
20
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Posted - 2012.12.19 14:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Indecisive Cid wrote:
Do I really need to spell it out for you?
Reproc a cruiser, reproc a Barge. They don't reproc at 90% of build. They reproc at 40% because they modified the build costs and kept reproc at old values to keep people from creating minerals. A short term fix with a long term nerf as a result.
This exactly. I'm still unclear on why they decided it was necessary to double the cost of a cruiser in the first place, it is only going to hurt inflation not help it, as cruiser prices just doubled and they are still no more useful than they were before the patch as I have yet to see a full T1 cruiser fleet PvPing or doing anything else useful. Not only that if you decide to build a cruiser you better be sure you can either sell it or use it, because your never getting your minerals back out of it. The only time I ever build cruisers is when I'm making T2 versions of the ship, I'm not sure I have even owned a T1 cruiser for use in over 3-4 years |
Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
31
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Posted - 2012.12.19 17:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Knownasthatguy wrote:Nevryn Takis wrote:I think the OP is confused ..the title asks what is happening to mineral prices but he complains about the build costs of a particular ship..
Based on the trends on the last week mineral prices look like they're starting to come back down to where they were a month or so ago, no that the spike caused by people buying them like crazy to build cruisers pre-patch has burst.
Perhaps the OP should pay more attention to the market.... an analysis would show how many cruisers are now selling at below production cost, and as posted on another thread there are toons out there that have thousands of crusiers, so this situation is likely to remain well into 2014.. Nevryn, Please excuse yourserlf from this conversation if all you have to offer are comments that don't push the conversation forward. Back in 2007 and 2008, Trit had a trend line that floated around 2 - 3 isk/unit. Today it's almost double that. My forum post is to gain insight to a seemingly open markt pushed by game consumers (player base) yielding what seems to be a market trend that outpaces player income (earned thru the game, not GTCs) . Is there truely a larger consumer base for pvp goods than suppliers of said goods? Is the mere fact that someone can spend out of game cash for in game isk making this a suppliers market, because people can and will afford more "shinny ships"?
You should really do some research yourself before accosting others.
Trit did not increase from 2-3isk/unit because of demand or supply. Well not directly because of supply. ;)
You see Trit was kept artificially low as there were several items you could buy from NPC's that would reprocess into nothing but trit. So the cost of that item determined the ceiling for trit. |
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Gifted Chaos
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.12.19 17:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:One of the biggest demand drivers in the game that is pushing mineral prices up is supercap mfg. The null sec guys don't want to talk about it, and CCP stopped publishing numbers on supercaps May 29th of this year.
But have a look at a Nyx BPO. You can make approx 1000 BC's for every Nyx out there.
I did an analysis and posted it weeks ago based on the May 29th snapshot of supercaps in the game. I lowballed the mineral requirements, but based on the Jita sell prices that day, there was 134 Trillion in minerals tied up in the supercap hulls. That was just the hulls. And that was 6 months ago.
Imagine how many more supercaps have been cranked out now that null is a blue fest and CSAA's are much safer than they wee 6 months ago.
Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
1012
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 17:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:corestwo wrote:Even at the peak (approx. 1 titan and two supercarriers a day) the combined consumption of tritanium by all supercap production was less than half of what's used for battleships and battlecruisers. If you're trying to soft peddle the amount of minerals consumed by supercapitals, saying that they amount to less than half of what's used by the largest consumer of minerals (BC/BS) is underwhelming. I wish the economy folks at CCP would publish a pie chart showing mineral consumption distribution. Or several pie charts, one per period for the last several quarters. MDD Half at the peak. My point was actually that it's far more reasonable to expect that super production dropped because of their nerfs than it is to expect that they went up as he claimed. Data bears this out - when supercarriers were no longer "solo pwnmobiles", people stopped building them. The same assumption is fair for titans. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Dave stark
827
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 18:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom
i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
859
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Posted - 2012.12.19 19:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer.
You have to learn to read these posts.
low end minerals at rock bottom= miners don't make more than people missioning
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Dave stark
827
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Posted - 2012.12.19 19:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Dave stark wrote:Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer. You have to learn to read these posts. low end minerals at rock bottom= miners don't make more than people missioning
i have to learn to read. that's besides the point, though. :P
have miners ever made more than people doing missions? isn't that pretty much just the price we pay for having the most afkable "job" in eve? besides, mining is still respectable isk/hour. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
859
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Posted - 2012.12.19 19:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Dave stark wrote:Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer. You have to learn to read these posts. low end minerals at rock bottom= miners don't make more than people missioning i have to learn to read. that's besides the point, though. :P have miners ever made more than people doing missions? isn't that pretty much just the price we pay for having the most afkable "job" in eve? besides, mining is still respectable isk/hour.
I didn't say it was a /reasonable/ demand
FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Nick BlueStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.12.19 20:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Maybe I'm insane, but what if they doubled the mineral cost of cruisers/frigs (and possibly BC/BS's next) in order to bring the prices of those items in line with today's inflation. I mean, the price of trit/pyer/mex has barely gone up in the past 5 years, while the amount of isk pouring into the game through bounties/mission rewards/bonuses has sky rocketed in the same time.
I mean, now a days, everyone's a billionaire! But the price of trit is STILL below 10isk/unit? Something's gotta give at some point...
And like others have said, as long as you have your finger in the market DURING the inflation, you're wallet will rise with the market. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2333
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Posted - 2012.12.19 20:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Dave stark wrote:Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer. You have to learn to read these posts. low end minerals at rock bottom= miners don't make more than people missioning i have to learn to read. that's besides the point, though. :P have miners ever made more than people doing missions? isn't that pretty much just the price we pay for having the most afkable "job" in eve? besides, mining is still respectable isk/hour.
Less than L4 but more than L2 and on par with some L3 missions.
Actually, if CCP nerfed L4 income by half (some in GD are asking for that), roids mining would displace L4 from the "throne". Why bother with Sleepers Lite AI, scramming frigs, damaging fields, warp 3-4 stations, spend months into training a ship and buying some good gear for it and grind standings, when you could make 2-3 M less a hour just by sitting at a rock? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
1012
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Posted - 2012.12.20 03:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
Nick BlueStar wrote:Maybe I'm insane, but what if they doubled the mineral cost of cruisers/frigs (and possibly BC/BS's next) in order to bring the prices of those items in line with today's inflation. I mean, the price of trit/pyer/mex has barely gone up in the past 5 years, while the amount of isk pouring into the game through bounties/mission rewards/bonuses has sky rocketed in the same time.
I mean, now a days, everyone's a billionaire! But the price of trit is STILL below 10isk/unit? Something's gotta give at some point...
And like others have said, as long as you have your finger in the market DURING the inflation, you're wallet will rise with the market.
Or it's that inflation in the classical sense of "a bad thing that happens when there is an excess of money in the economy" doesn't actually matter with regards to any player-built commodity in Eve, as infinite (or pseudo-infinite) resources with what is in most cases an extremely low barrier to entry to gather and use them causes raw materials and things built with them to hew purely to supply and demand.
I mean, look at that last devblog from recurve. Specifically, look at this: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Indices_2012-10.png
That consumer price index? It's Doc Eyjo's favorite indicator of "inflation". Notice how it takes a massive dip around late 2006. Y'know what happened in late 2006? Two things. Invention was implemented, which broke the back of the Tech II cartels and massively increased supply of Tech II ships and equipment in Eve, decreasing their cost. And, the drone regions were introduced, which as they became more populated, grew into enormous mineral fountains, massively dropping the price of Tech 1 (and by extension, Tech II) goods thanks to an overabundance of minerals. And then whoops, they removed all that mineral supply early in the year and the CPI went back up, although you can see how the primary price index spiked and then dropped anyway - spiking mineral prices (and thus Tech I prices) were offset by a considerable margin by the falling price of Technetium (which meant a significant drop in Tech II prices)
PLEX are pretty much the sole exception to the "inflation doesn't matter" thing. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Dave stark
837
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Posted - 2012.12.20 05:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave stark wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Dave stark wrote:Gifted Chaos wrote:Yet low end mins r still at rock bottom i know i haven't been playing for the full 10 years, but low ends are higher now than i've ever seen them in the last ~18 months, if not 2 years. perhaps longer. You have to learn to read these posts. low end minerals at rock bottom= miners don't make more than people missioning i have to learn to read. that's besides the point, though. :P have miners ever made more than people doing missions? isn't that pretty much just the price we pay for having the most afkable "job" in eve? besides, mining is still respectable isk/hour. Less than L4 but more than L2 and on par with some L3 missions. Actually, if CCP nerfed L4 income by half (some in GD are asking for that), roids mining would displace L4 from the "throne". Why bother with Sleepers Lite AI, scramming frigs, damaging fields, warp 3-4 stations, spend months into training a ship and buying some good gear for it and grind standings, when you could make 2-3 M less a hour just by sitting at a rock?
because let's face it, when every one starts mining supply goes up prices go down and a new equilibrium is reached. that's why mining is never going to really net you more money than mission running. it might for a few months until old mission runners train in to barges or whatever but yeah... won't last long. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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