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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
107
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 19:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lesumer wrote:GÇ£Because it's "safe" it will eventually come to replace "casual PvP." Why is this? Well... why would you go out and try to find PvP and risk your actual ship when you can do the same thing in a simulation?GÇ¥
Casual PvP now that a fun expression, normally used by the player with 75k+ skills on a new player. That is the problem there is no casual PvP in Eve. In 0.0 If not Blue you kill. In low sec all are targets even corp mates I have found out. Smiles. Empire War-decs / Faction warfare / Ganks before CONCORD turn up. I see no Casual PvP here.
Lol... "casual" is what you make of it... I usually just make it out to be what's "fun." What is fun for me? Taking out an expensive piece of hardware and throwing it out onto the field of battle... a place where the trust of your wingmates/corpmates to fit their ships well and follow the plan you all agreed upon is paramount. You trust that everyone is following the primaries, doing their respective jobs well... you are looking to see anything that might threaten you or your wingmates/corpmates... and the whole time you know that if something goes horribly wrong (e.g. someone fit their ship horribly wrong, someone didn't do what they were supposed to, no one was paying attention to local to see that number spike, etc.) then you have not only just lost a few hours to a day worth in ISK... you have assisted in everyone else losing their hard earned ISK and the time it will take the recoup it.
The "fun" come from the "rush" of something at stake. Take away that reason for players to plan better, fit better, and generally be better pilots... and you won't see people fight as hard.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I can only assume you think EvE is about PvP. If this is the case you would be wrong.
So why is pretty much everything in the game geared towards player versus player interaction and allow for people to interfere with your activities when you might or might not want them to? "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |

Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 01:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Samillian wrote:I really don't think you get the point of this game. I can only assume you think EvE is about PvP. If this is the case you would be wrong.
I actually laughed IRL at this bit. Seriously dude, where have you been?
EVE is ALL PVP. That guy mining in a hi sec belt? Supplying minerals for ships for PVP. That industry dude doing PI for POS fuel? Supplying fuel for POS's that are used in low/null for PVP purposes.
Everything in EVE revolves around ships getting blown up.
As to a simulator in EVE to simulate EVE, that's just dumb. Seriously dumb.
The whole point of EVE and the reason most people play it is because there is risk. Take away risk and you will not add to the subscriptions, CCP will lose thousands of accounts as all the people in low/null sec stop logging in. And when they go, so goes the carebear aspects of EVE so no more mining or whatever.
I started in hi sec like everyone else did. I have played for 4 years and I have gone through all the problems and mistakes that EVE has to offer. I learned and I improved. Basically you guys just don't want to take the time to learn and improve. You want EVE for Dummies.
I for one would hate to see something like this in EVE as it renders all the time and effort all the people that were here before you went through. You demean the efforts of all people that improve with ideas like this. |

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
89
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 01:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
If EvE was about PvP then that would be the only thing to do in EvE. It's not. Grow a brain.
Hate to break it to you but there is a lot of other things in EvE to do and they don't all gear towards PvP. PvP is a singular aspect of the game. I have friends that have played EvE as long as me that have never even bothered to try PvP. That have never went to Nullsec unless they had to. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |

Rawbone
S3MINAL FLUID Below Me.
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 02:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
What part of PvP in Eve isn't already simulated? What you're actually proposing is simulated simualated PvP. Or shuld it be virtual virtual PvP? EVEVVPVPFTW maybe? |

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
90
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 13:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rawbone wrote:What part of PvP in Eve isn't already simulated? What you're actually proposing is simulated simualated PvP. Or shuld it be virtual virtual PvP? EVEVVPVPFTW maybe?
Now the conversation is just getting stupid.
To the OP. Keep going with it. It's a good idea despite they naysayers nitpicking at stupid little things and those that think EvE is only about what they specifically do in the game. It likely won't be something implemented anytime soon or ever for that matter but you never know. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |

Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 01:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:If EvE was about PvP then that would be the only thing to do in EvE. It's not. Grow a brain.
Hate to break it to you but there is a lot of other things in EvE to do and they don't all gear towards PvP. PvP is a singular aspect of the game. I have friends that have played EvE as long as me that have never even bothered to try PvP. That have never went to Nullsec unless they had to.
No I think you should grow a brain buddy.
Selective reading is great, no?
Read what I wrote. Everything in EVE is geared to PVP. That is what I said. Just because you sit and mine in a belt all day without shooting at anything does not mean you are not actively participating in the PVP element of EVE. You are just doing it from a different perspective. Where do you think all your minerals go? Think about it before you open your gob and let hot air out.
I have done all aspects of EVE from actively shooting at other players, mining, PI, missions and plexes. I have done it all as most have. It's still a stupid idea to have a simulator of EVE in EVE. |

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 03:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
I love hearing the "veteral pvp'ers" whine .... "oh no, the only possible pvp is OUR pvp" .... "no one else's sand is as good as ours, and to prove it, we want to take yours away" .... blah blah blah ...
Again, if people actually loved nullsec / pvp as much as the "only true pvp'ers" claim ... they'd already be living in nullsec ... but they aren't ... veteral pvp'ers should be thankful to carebears for paying ccp to keep EVE alive ... and should be thinking of ways to RETAIN new subscribers rather than congratulating themselves on how great they are at killing noobs. |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
155
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 03:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote:I love hearing the "veteral pvp'ers" whine .... "oh no, the only possible pvp is OUR pvp" .... "no one else's sand is as good as ours, and to prove it, we want to take yours away" .... blah blah blah ...
Adding "virtual PVP" in Eve is adding risk-free PVP. That flies in the face of the entire notion of a sandbox where everyone is living in the same universe and everything you do has consequences. If every time you wanted PVP you could simply hop onto your virtual console and have a few fights without risk of losing any assets, you are removing yourself and the act of PVP from the sandbox.
This isn't about "our sand" versus "your sand" this is the fact that you want to be able to step outside the sandbox and play in the house for a bit, for fear of getting dirty.
Takara Mora wrote:Again, if people actually loved nullsec / pvp as much as the "only true pvp'ers" claim ... they'd already be living in nullsec ... but they aren't ... veteral pvp'ers should be thankful to carebears for paying ccp to keep EVE alive ... and should be thinking of ways to RETAIN new subscribers rather than congratulating themselves on how great they are at killing noobs.
This won't retain new subscribers. |

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
If you LOVE "real" pvp soooo much, why are you so afraid people will stop "real" pvp'ing? |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
155
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Not sure if troll...
Takara Mora wrote:If you LOVE "real" pvp soooo much, why are you so afraid people will stop "real" pvp'ing?
If you're responding to me (you must be, as I'm the only one who posted since your last nonsensical post), then you really need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said people will stop. I said that virtual combat, virtual ANYTHING in Eve flies in the face of the established notion that Eve is one big sandbox and that the action of every player can affect every other player. What you're asking for is something that directly contradicts that.
Right now if you run missions and bring back mission loot and sell it, someone else is going to buy that loot and use it. If no mission runners bring back loot, meta 1-4 modules go up in price as the supply dwindles.
PVP is the largest sink of minerals and loot modules in the game. If you introduce virtual PVP that *does* result in a drop in PVP losses, then all the minerals and loot will DROP in price, damaging the market and making it harder for you carebears to make isk. You don't realize it, but you rely on us blowing stuff up :)
Takara Mora wrote:I get a kick out of the "nullsec pvp elite" telling hisec carebears how great pvp is .... lol ... kinda like the fisherman expecting the fish to jump into his boat, just because of how awesome the "bait" there is .... hilarious.
I get a kick out of your assumption that I'm anything resembling "nullsec pvp elite". |

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 04:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Again, I disagree with your assumption that virtual pvp would decrease the frequency of real pvp .... i suspect the opposite.
And nah, Banjo, i'm not assuming your one of the "pvp elite" (though you, or I even, could very easily be for all any of us know) ... the reply was intended to be more general than that :)
(and the term "pvp elite refers more to how highly "they" (a certain very arrogant class of pilot) think of themselves, not their actual skill) |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
115
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 06:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote:Again, I disagree with your assumption that virtual pvp would decrease the frequency of real pvp .... i suspect the opposite.
I again state (more or less) what I said earlier in the thread...
When you can get your rocks off doing ship to ship combat in a "virtual environment" against other players without gain or loss... why risk actual ISK and effort looking for "real" PvP? "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |

Uronksur Suth
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 11:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lesumer wrote:Simulated PvP from console in captainGÇÖs quarters, now we have this living space outside of the ship. Add a game consol so we can play simulated Eve Pvp in our quarters. Suggestion is to add simulated Pvp within the game, that is have a game playable within your quarters where you can participate in simulated battles with ships you can fly against other players (or nominated npcs). Thus you can learn if the skill/fits you have are adequate to battle other players. Way I see this being added is: 1.You have a display just like now but you can buy any item you can fly or equip for no cost. (you make no ISK also  ) Just need some ID system to indicate you are in a simulated eve station. All normal rules for eve apply but no cost for simulated parts / ships 2.You have a number of systems you can form up in with normal concord rules for Sec 1.0 system. This system jumps to a Null Sec for PvP. (recommend one for non-capitals, one all ships. Possibly limit capital ships available to one or two a day per player.) 3.To get to this Pvp station is by a simulated jump clone that has no cool down. Doing this protects Real Eve [REve] implants and death function is not affected. Add auto medical death clone skill protect to again get around REve death functions. This clone will have no implants but as they will have no cost in this Pvp game in Eve you can try different setups. 4.The Null Sec system people can practice their setups for Gate camping etcGǪ Find out if your BS with 8SB can take down those bubbles before sucking on vacuum. 5.Players can practice tactics with others in same Corp setting Red/Blue teams or even inter-alliance Pvp with no loss. You will be able to find out who has the best skill/setup with risking that 4-5B isk T3 setup with all officer mods. If you get party crashers during your training its all the better. 6.As we now have a new currency system in the game, give it some function beside looks *smiles* add the ability for a small cost to modify your skills so you can fly/equip normally unavailable stuff in this simulation of Eve Pvp while resting in your quarters drinking a cold drink. To all you low sec plays just think of it this way, the care bears in empire can practice some Pvp first. So you may get more customers for the now braver empire players. I know Pvp is not even I just like to be in the 20 ship fleet finding the 5 ship fleet.
Sweet God no. No. No. Every so often someone comes along with an idea to make arena PvP, and we all hate it, so just no. |

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 13:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Interesting that people hate the thought of "arena pvp" ... but love the idea of Alliance Tournament, etc.? --> seem very similar to me .... and I don't think isk losses (compared to "real pvp") are the real factor at play .... there's something deeper isn't there? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 19:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote:Again, I disagree with your assumption that virtual pvp would decrease the frequency of real pvp .... i suspect the opposite.
How much pvp happens in WoW outside of instances since battlegrounds were introduced?
hint: its almost none |

Rawbone
S3MINAL FLUID Below Me.
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 23:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Takara Mora wrote:Interesting that people hate the thought of "arena pvp" ... but love the idea of Alliance Tournament, etc.? --> seem very similar to me .... and I don't think isk losses (compared to "real pvp") are the real factor at play .... there's something deeper isn't there?
LAWL, Really, LAWL. The tournament is once a year and losses are real - eve real - that is. You **** and moan about bitter PvPers not wanting change, but what you're after is instance PvP, like WoW or World of Tanks. If you really want instance PvP that bad, play WoT while your mining Veld in the background. Leave Eve alone. |

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 01:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Rawbone wrote:Takara Mora wrote:Interesting that people hate the thought of "arena pvp" ... but love the idea of Alliance Tournament, etc.? --> seem very similar to me .... and I don't think isk losses (compared to "real pvp") are the real factor at play .... there's something deeper isn't there? LAWL, Really, LAWL. The tournament is once a year and losses are real - eve real - that is. You **** and moan about bitter PvPers not wanting change, but what you're after is instance PvP, like WoW or World of Tanks. If you really want instance PvP that bad, play WoT while your mining Veld in the background. Leave Eve alone.
Let's face it, in order to survive, EVE needs more subscribers ... if you want to keep them, you'll have to appeal to a broader audience (and yes, that may mean doing a few things like ..... the other MMO's out there) ... that may mean doing things hardcore pvp'ers don't respect .... but most players, are not and never will be hardcore pvp'ers ... the magic, if CCP can make it happen, will be to please both playerbases ... not one or the other ... the game ecosystem can't survive nor expand like it needs to based on hardcore pvp'er subs alone ... it doesn't matter which side of the argument you're one, this is the reality. |

Lesumer
Janet's Fx
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 06:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
This simulated Pvp would come with no rewards, no reputation loss. ThatGÇÖs right you will not get the rush when you escape the bubbled gate camp with your recon ship at 5% structure, or when you 6 player team of stealth bombers + a recon take down a carrier. That's the point it's a no Gain/Lost GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥, how would this affect real GÇ£Eve PvpGÇ¥, others keep talking about in this chat where there is real or Loss or Gain to Pvp. As noted above and I totally agree with GÇ£in order to survive, EVE needs more subscribers ... if you want to keep them, you'll have to appeal to a broader audience (and yes, that may mean doing a few things like ..... the other MMO's out there)GÇ¥
The proposal was to provide a no loss/gain GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ so newer players can experience that part of the game while coming to grips with the vast complexities of eve and what is a good ship fitting and what makes a target. This is why people play as there is so much involved in this game, helping out players to grasp the basics of ship functions can only help. If CCP can add a video capture function so players can practice then playback in the current Eve software rule set to improve tactics even better.
Once again I state this as some above commented about how it will affect mission runners or markets as Eve depends on Pvp to blow stuff up to generate a demand. This GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ for simulated Pvp will have NO gain in any way but player upstanding of Eve mechanics. ThatGÇÖs no ISK, no drop of modules, no salvage to sell, no sovereignty changes that no gain but player skill/knowledge of how to fly a ship with fitting they select to fit. So if a player wants the rush or gain of Pvp they will have to leave this GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ and play in real Eve. |

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.27 19:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I'm against the ideal of "virtual PVP". SiSi is an adequate testbed for practicing PVP.
However, I wouldn't object to a "simulator" that would let you pit saved fittings against other saved fittings USING THE PLAYER'S SKILLS. The idea would be to test the tank on one ship against the alpha/dps of another and have minimal controls for each ship in the virtual environment.
Let's say the ships spawn a set distance apart (possibly determined by the player) and stationary. You can click modules for each and set each one to orbit or approach how you want to. Maybe put in one or two celestials they can be aligned to, but I wouldn't give them the ability to fly free. You click "go" and they auto-target each other while executing any movement or module activation commands. (edit: To be clear, you'd be able to continue giving commands after starting the simulation)
In this way, a player wouldn't be able to get anything resembling real PVP without the risk, but they would be able to test various fits and see their speeds, abilities, damage, and tank in a limited and controlled environment. It's EFT warrioring with more shiny.
Personally I don't care to see CCP waste effort on such a feature. But if they did ANYTHING like it, this is how I'd want to see it work: single-player, limited, and clinical. It should NEVER be a substitute for undocking.
THIS^^ with recording feature of real combat would be very useful! And not providing Free pvp.
OP, your suggestion is just a sad work around to play a risk free Eve... Very lame. eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
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