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[Proposal] simulated PvP from console in captainGÇÖs quarters

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Lesumer Janet's Fx 0	Posted - 2011.10.06 01:58:00 - [1] - Quote Simulated PvP from console in captainGÇÖs quarters, now we have this living space outside of the ship. Add a game consol so we can play simulated Eve Pvp in our quarters. Suggestion is to add simulated Pvp within the game, that is have a game playable within your quarters where you can participate in simulated battles with ships you can fly against other players (or nominated npcs). Thus you can learn if the skill/fits you have are adequate to battle other players. Way I see this being added is: 1.You have a display just like now but you can buy any item you can fly or equip for no cost. (you make no ISK also ) Just need some ID system to indicate you are in a simulated eve station. All normal rules for eve apply but no cost for simulated parts / ships 2.You have a number of systems you can form up in with normal concord rules for Sec 1.0 system. This system jumps to a Null Sec for PvP. (recommend one for non-capitals, one all ships. Possibly limit capital ships available to one or two a day per player.) 3.To get to this Pvp station is by a simulated jump clone that has no cool down. Doing this protects Real Eve [REve] implants and death function is not affected. Add auto medical death clone skill protect to again get around REve death functions. This clone will have no implants but as they will have no cost in this Pvp game in Eve you can try different setups. 4.The Null Sec system people can practice their setups for Gate camping etcGÇª Find out if your BS with 8SB can take down those bubbles before sucking on vacuum. 5.Players can practice tactics with others in same Corp setting Red/Blue teams or even inter-alliance Pvp with no loss. You will be able to find out who has the best skill/setup with risking that 4-5B isk T3 setup with all officer mods. If you get party crashers during your training its all the better. 6.As we now have a new currency system in the game, give it some function beside looks smiles add the ability for a small cost to modify your skills so you can fly/equip normally unavailable stuff in this simulation of Eve Pvp while resting in your quarters drinking a cold drink. To all you low sec plays just think of it this way, the care bears in empire can practice some Pvp first. So you may get more customers for the now braver empire players. I know Pvp is not even I just like to be in the 20 ship fleet finding the 5 ship fleet.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2011.10.06 02:31:00 - [2] - Quote People will shout this down. Don't forget, they don't actually want highsec carebears (95% of playerbase) to know how to pvp.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors 57	Posted - 2011.10.06 05:12:00 - [3] - Quote Lesumer wrote: Simulated PvP Groaned a bit right when I read this. Let's get this over with... Lesumer wrote: Suggestion is to add simulated Pvp within the game, that is have a game playable within your quarters where you can participate in simulated battles with ships you can fly against other players (or nominated npcs). Thus you can learn if the skill/fits you have are adequate to battle other players. Way I see this being added is: 1.You have a display just like now but you can buy any item you can fly or equip for no cost. (you make no ISK also ) Just need some ID system to indicate you are in a simulated eve station. All normal rules for eve apply but no cost for simulated parts / ships [ ...snip... ] 3.To get to this Pvp station is by a simulated jump clone that has no cool down. Doing this protects Real Eve [REve] implants and death function is not affected. Add auto medical death clone skill protect to again get around REve death functions. This clone will have no implants but as they will have no cost in this Pvp game in Eve you can try different setups. PvP without risk of any sort is a no-go for a good many people (as you'll soon find out). It's a principle thing. More than that... if people could PvP in station against other players at no cost and no risk, what reason would they have to ACTUALLY undock and find "real PvP?" Lesumer wrote: 5.Players can practice tactics with others in same Corp setting Red/Blue teams or even inter-alliance Pvp with no loss. You will be able to find out who has the best skill/setup with risking that 4-5B isk T3 setup with all officer mods. If you get party crashers during your training its all the better. Or you could... you know... actually practice with your corp against your corp. Oh wait... you want to use officer mods? Why not use them anyways? Oh? You don't want to risk losing them? Them's the breaks. There is a reason they are rare and expensive. Lesumer wrote: 6.As we now have a new currency system in the game, give it some function beside looks smiles add the ability for a small cost to modify your skills so you can fly/equip normally unavailable stuff in this simulation of Eve Pvp while resting in your quarters drinking a cold drink. So basically pay RL cash to give yourself skills in a simulator that many people are going to be running because they don't want to risk themselves in actual combat. I don't know where to begin with this one. Lesumer wrote: To all you low sec plays just think of it this way, the care bears in empire can practice some Pvp first. So you may get more customers for the now braver empire players. I know Pvp is not even I just like to be in the 20 ship fleet finding the 5 ship fleet. No... the actual problem with so many "carebears" is that they find the idea of risking their ship abhorrent. What your idea does is give "carebears" a "sub-world" where they can say that they have "PvPed" without having actually risked anything. Honestly... if you want to try some stuff out, get your corp to sign up to the test server. Not only can you "test stuff" but you'll also be helping DEVs find bugs (which I hear they need people to do). "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Zirse Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 89	Posted - 2011.10.06 06:40:00 - [4] - Quote There's this thing called sisi, you should look into it.
Karim alRashid Aliastra Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2011.10.06 06:49:00 - [5] - Quote No, because I consider one of the fundamental principles in the game is that a loss has a meaning, i.e. it hurts. (although CCP seems to forget that, given how easy to make money and obtain resources has become in the last few years).
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 16	Posted - 2011.10.06 20:22:00 - [6] - Quote Stupid idea is stupid. Now that I've gotten that out of my system... Getting paid to run a "fake PvP" scenario will let the bears get to avoid shedding tears, and then they claim they PvPed. So no. Good idea: Allow for an in-game recording setup, that allows you to watch the playback on your nice in-quarters displays. This will give FCs the opportunity to re-watch a fleet engagement, and established where things went right/wrong, and thus formulate after action reports to tweak their fleet standard operation procedures, tactics and techniques. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 55	Posted - 2011.10.07 05:08:00 - [7] - Quote Yo dawg, I heard you like EVE, so we put EVE in your EVE so you can PvP while you shipspin.
Samillian Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos 6	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:10:00 - [8] - Quote This idea is so pointless that it actually hurts.
Magnus Orin Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 36	Posted - 2011.10.07 22:17:00 - [9] - Quote Zirse wrote: There's this thing called sisi, you should look into it. How about you access SiSi from your CQ! Yo dog, we heard you liked Eve, so we put Eve in your Eve so you could...
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 104	Posted - 2011.10.07 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote I'm against the ideal of "virtual PVP". SiSi is an adequate testbed for practicing PVP. However, I wouldn't object to a "simulator" that would let you pit saved fittings against other saved fittings USING THE PLAYER'S SKILLS. The idea would be to test the tank on one ship against the alpha/dps of another and have minimal controls for each ship in the virtual environment. Let's say the ships spawn a set distance apart (possibly determined by the player) and stationary. You can click modules for each and set each one to orbit or approach how you want to. Maybe put in one or two celestials they can be aligned to, but I wouldn't give them the ability to fly free. You click "go" and they auto-target each other while executing any movement or module activation commands. (edit: To be clear, you'd be able to continue giving commands after starting the simulation) In this way, a player wouldn't be able to get anything resembling real PVP without the risk, but they would be able to test various fits and see their speeds, abilities, damage, and tank in a limited and controlled environment. It's EFT warrioring with more shiny. Personally I don't care to see CCP waste effort on such a feature. But if they did ANYTHING like it, this is how I'd want to see it work: single-player, limited, and clinical. It should NEVER be a substitute for undocking.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 104	Posted - 2011.10.07 23:06:00 - [11] - Quote Jack Carrigan wrote: Allow for an in-game recording setup, that allows you to watch the playback on your nice in-quarters displays. This will give FCs the opportunity to re-watch a fleet engagement, and established where things went right/wrong, and thus formulate after action reports to tweak their fleet standard operation procedures, tactics and techniques. This. A replay system that would allow you to record a battle and then replay it and even adjust camera angles would be awesome and create some amazing YouTube videos. There have been great results from Valve doing this with their source engine.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 468	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote It would be a pretty nice WiS feature if you could access SiSi directly from within it and have an arena style function that way. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 25	Posted - 2011.10.08 23:19:00 - [13] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Jack Carrigan wrote: Allow for an in-game recording setup, that allows you to watch the playback on your nice in-quarters displays. This will give FCs the opportunity to re-watch a fleet engagement, and established where things went right/wrong, and thus formulate after action reports to tweak their fleet standard operation procedures, tactics and techniques. This. A replay system that would allow you to record a battle and then replay it and even adjust camera angles would be awesome and create some amazing YouTube videos. There have been great results from Valve doing this with their source engine. Also, consider the following, being able to get saved recording from another pilot that was involved in the same battle, and put it up on the other screen, giving you the ability to look at a battle from three angles at once, and thus give you a slight bit of clarity into what could have gone right/wrong with an engagement from the standpoint of more than one pilot. This would make for some pretty crazy YouTube videos, but it could also be utilized in a "clinical" fashion to critique an incident more effectively and allow for future PvP training or actual PvP engagements to be tailored to include contingencies based on prior events. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 57	Posted - 2011.10.09 03:50:00 - [14] - Quote I think its a good idea so long as you don't gain anything from it and don't lose anything either. You could basically use it as "practice" or a testing ground for new fits. Most people do this already by logging onto SiSi. I see no difference in putting it into Tranquility as a simulation in CQ. Another thing to consider is, giving the cearbears a means to get a taste of PvP without the fear of losing anything might give them an incentive to actually go out and PvP sometime or move to 0.0 once they are more confident in their skills.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 28	Posted - 2011.10.11 15:51:00 - [15] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Another thing to consider is, giving the cearbears a means to get a taste of PvP without the fear of losing anything might give them an incentive to actually go out and PvP sometime or move to 0.0 once they are more confident in their skills. This is the whole reason that this idea is made of fail. Because to a carebear, the idea of PvP, or losing a ship is completely reprehensible. Hence the reason they are carebears. They don't WANT to get a taste of PvP. They don't want to look at PvP. They don't want to hear about PvP. And the sad part is, they think that this game solely revolves around them. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 65	Posted - 2011.10.11 17:36:00 - [16] - Quote Jack Carrigan wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Another thing to consider is, giving the cearbears a means to get a taste of PvP without the fear of losing anything might give them an incentive to actually go out and PvP sometime or move to 0.0 once they are more confident in their skills. This is the whole reason that this idea is made of fail. Because to a carebear, the idea of PvP, or losing a ship is completely reprehensible. Hence the reason they are carebears. They don't WANT to get a taste of PvP. They don't want to look at PvP. They don't want to hear about PvP. And the sad part is, they think that this game solely revolves around them. That alone hardly makes it a fail idea. I see plenty of Pro's to this idea...biggest of all being able to test fits in a safe simulated environment other than SiSi before using it in PvP.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors 69	Posted - 2011.10.11 20:13:00 - [17] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Jack Carrigan wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Another thing to consider is, giving the cearbears a means to get a taste of PvP without the fear of losing anything might give them an incentive to actually go out and PvP sometime or move to 0.0 once they are more confident in their skills. This is the whole reason that this idea is made of fail. Because to a carebear, the idea of PvP, or losing a ship is completely reprehensible. Hence the reason they are carebears. They don't WANT to get a taste of PvP. They don't want to look at PvP. They don't want to hear about PvP. And the sad part is, they think that this game solely revolves around them. That alone hardly makes it a fail idea. I see plenty of Pro's to this idea...biggest of all being able to test fits in a safe simulated environment other than SiSi before using it in PvP. That's actually the problem. Because it's "safe" it will eventually come to replace "casual PvP." Why is this? Well... why would you go out and try to find PvP and risk your actual ship when you can do the same thing in a simulation? "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 65	Posted - 2011.10.11 22:10:00 - [18] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Jack Carrigan wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Another thing to consider is, giving the cearbears a means to get a taste of PvP without the fear of losing anything might give them an incentive to actually go out and PvP sometime or move to 0.0 once they are more confident in their skills. This is the whole reason that this idea is made of fail. Because to a carebear, the idea of PvP, or losing a ship is completely reprehensible. Hence the reason they are carebears. They don't WANT to get a taste of PvP. They don't want to look at PvP. They don't want to hear about PvP. And the sad part is, they think that this game solely revolves around them. That alone hardly makes it a fail idea. I see plenty of Pro's to this idea...biggest of all being able to test fits in a safe simulated environment other than SiSi before using it in PvP. That's actually the problem. Because it's "safe" it will eventually come to replace "casual PvP." Why is this? Well... why would you go out and try to find PvP and risk your actual ship when you can do the same thing in a simulation? Why go out and risk your ship when you can just log onto SiSi and do the same thing there with no risk instead? See? Same damned thing and just about everybody with a brain already does this.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors 70	Posted - 2011.10.12 05:19:00 - [19] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Why go out and risk your ship when you can just log onto SiSi and do the same thing there with no risk instead? See? Same damned thing and just about everybody with a brain already does this. Because in SiSI... - there is no functioning economy. - you can't really make ISK. - you don't REALLY buy anything. - you can't REALLY lose anything. - it is subject to resets and tinkering by GMs/DEVs. - the gameplay and effects caused over there are divorced from what happens in TQ. SiSi is, at it's heart, a test server for GMs/DEVs to play around with EVE code. The fact that you can also play with ships, fittings and tactics over there is a perk. Nothing more. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 66	Posted - 2011.10.12 13:11:00 - [20] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Why go out and risk your ship when you can just log onto SiSi and do the same thing there with no risk instead? See? Same damned thing and just about everybody with a brain already does this. Because in SiSI... - there is no functioning economy. - you can't really make ISK. - you don't REALLY buy anything. - you can't REALLY lose anything. - it is subject to resets and tinkering by GMs/DEVs. - the gameplay and effects caused over there are divorced from what happens in TQ. SiSi is, at it's heart, a test server for GMs/DEVs to play around with EVE code. The fact that you can also play with ships, fittings and tactics over there is a perk. Nothing more. Thanks for making my point because what would a simulator be? I've already said I would only support it if there was no gain or loss either way. But I suppose you just glazed over that part right?
Havak Kouvo State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.10.12 14:23:00 - [21] - Quote I see where the OP is going with this. Hey CCP, where are those mini-games you promised with Incarna. Don't think i forgot that fanfest from that time where you demoed that board game. I want that. I want to play a game in your game, perferably about playing yet another game. Like chess, checkers, spades, hearts, 21 blackjack, poker, texas hold em, go, othello, risk, ..... pokemon fire red.
Frank Graden Axiom Navy Axiom Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.10.12 18:35:00 - [22] - Quote The thing you have to ask yourself is do you really want to tie up CCP programing resources for something that already exists. I dont know about the rest of you, but if i want to simulate anything I log on to SiSi with a buddy test my fitting, or whatever then bounce back to eve. I would rather see see them do some real improvements to the game and not some stupid **** so carebears can hide in-station. You are flying a spaceship on the internet if going to do PvP then do PvP. If you PvP you are going to lose, its going to happen. You are an idiot if you think you wont, thats part of the fun though, being able to lose. Thats why you work to reduce your loss. Expensive ships have an edge, but there is more risk involved. So cheap fit a ship grab some friends and go bust up a gate camp. Or you can program a simulator for us and leave a link here, because you are not taking CCP's time to do this. Dude I heard you liked EVE, so we simulated EVE on your EVE. EDIT: Yeah if you are going to put something in station make it a card game that you can wager isk for. I'd be down to hang at the in station bar, dropping some isk with some mates.
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 66	Posted - 2011.10.12 18:54:00 - [23] - Quote Frank Graden wrote: Or you can program a simulator for us and leave a link here, because you are not taking CCP's time to do this. And just who exactly are you to be deciding what CCP does with thier time? Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)
Frank Graden Axiom Navy Axiom Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.10.12 20:36:00 - [24] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Frank Graden wrote: Or you can program a simulator for us and leave a link here, because you are not taking CCP's time to do this. And just who exactly are you to be deciding what CCP does with thier time? Just one guy that's saying whats on my mind. If CCP thinks that making a combat testing program and inserting it into CQ is a great idea and they should drop everything and do that, then so be it. I would however like to point out again that SiSi is a great way to test out ship fits and simulated PvP, and that is basically what this OP wants. They have enough other content to fix and/or improve without having to put resources into something that already exists.
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 69	Posted - 2011.10.13 13:47:00 - [25] - Quote Frank Graden wrote: Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Frank Graden wrote: Or you can program a simulator for us and leave a link here, because you are not taking CCP's time to do this. And just who exactly are you to be deciding what CCP does with thier time? Just one guy that's saying whats on my mind. If CCP thinks that making a combat testing program and inserting it into CQ is a great idea and they should drop everything and do that, then so be it. I would however like to point out again that SiSi is a great way to test out ship fits and simulated PvP, and that is basically what this OP wants. They have enough other content to fix and/or improve without having to put resources into something that already exists. I think it is safe to say that it won't happen anyway. So that's pretty much that. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky
Angry Onions Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore 54	Posted - 2011.10.14 14:30:00 - [26] - Quote Toy with a fit with EFT, test fit in SISI or with a buddy in TQ, theres your "simulated pvp" This adding an EvE in my EvE would be unnecessary and I really don't want xhibit (**** his dumb spelling) in my spaceship game. Hopefully this thread dies soon. E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your Carebear tears fuel us
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 85	Posted - 2011.10.17 18:46:00 - [27] - Quote Angry Onions wrote: Toy with a fit with EFT, test fit in SISI or with a buddy in TQ, theres your "simulated pvp" This adding an EvE in my EvE would be unnecessary and I really don't want xhibit (** his dumb spelling) in my spaceship game. Hopefully this thread dies soon. Reviving thread only so to pee in your tea. It still makes absolutely no sense to shoot down an idea only because there is already a painfully long and convoluted process in place. If I had an EFT option with a testing ground in game it would be an "IMPROVEMENT" to EvE. And that is the whole point to these threads. Draculina Alucardi**...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky
Lesumer Janet's Fx 2	Posted - 2011.10.18 05:21:00 - [28] - Quote Sorry all RL call me away to do this thing called interstate WorkGÇª To the very enlightening comments made below by some players. GÇ£PvP without risk of any sort is a no-go for a good many people (as you'll soon find out). It's a principle thing.GÇ¥ And GÇ£No, because I consider one of the fundamental principles in the game is that a loss has a meaning, i.e. it hurts.GÇ¥ Eve is a game for people of many skills; some people would like to try other parts of the game with limited risk. Why not let a new player find out that his new BS setup sucks with no loss. Not all players have a spare 10 Bill Isk and 80K + skills. To the PvP GÇ£ItGÇÖs a principle thingGÇ¥ Having players rage quit (thus loss of income for CCP) because they just lost their new ship they spent months saving up for is bad for all. Yes I know I Know if you can not afford to lose it do not undock, in the last six years I lost count of how many times I head that. But to some new players they just like to see what that new ship looks like in space know if it can tank as well as the last with the lower skills for new class. Get a GÇ£MateGÇ¥ lol to test out its tank etc. A lot better that a Rage quit to find out it sucks.. Just look at what CCP have managed to do with an increased income stream. If some one wants to live in a simulated PvP world why not let them. The only real affect it will have on real Eve is more players that more CCP content. GÇ£Honestly... if you want to try some stuff out, get your corp to sign up to the test serverGÇ¥. Yep you can do this but it can be time consuming and can reset at any time plus itGÇÖs a TEST Server. Notice the word TESTGÇª Its not the same Eve world. This function would give very fast access to new and old players to test out a setup with out having to dual install/update and transfer a Toon data. Plus it gives you fast access to any Toon you have on a single login. As stated else ware in this thread using the test server can be GÇ¥a painfully long and convoluted processGÇ¥ GÇ£Allow for an in-game recording setup, that allows you to watch the playback on your nice in-quarters displays. This will give FCs the opportunity to re-watch a fleet engagement, and established where things went right/wrong, and thus formulate after action reports to tweak their fleet standard operation procedures, tactics and techniquesGÇ¥ A great idea, adding an in-game recording function into this simulated PvP environment thus not affecting Real Eve is a good plan. Good for working out tactics. I know it can be done, some of you may of heard of a MMO called RIFT. It has an in-game recording function that you also upload to Utube while still in the game so it can be done. This would also allow for as stated else ware in this thread the ability to GÇ£create some amazing YouTube videosGÇ¥ Easier to create videos the more on UTube thus more free adds for Eve. GÇ£Because it's "safe" it will eventually come to replace "casual PvP." Why is this? Well... why would you go out and try to find PvP and risk your actual ship when you can do the same thing in a simulation?GÇ¥ Casual PvP now that a fun expression, normally used by the player with 75k+ skills on a new player. That is the problem there is no casual PvP in Eve. In 0.0 If not Blue you kill. In low sec all are targets even corp mates I have found out. Smiles. Empire War-decs / Faction warfare / Ganks before CONCORD turn up. I see no Casual PvP here. GÇ£The thing you have to ask yourself is do you really want to tie up CCP programing resources for something that already existsGÇ¥ As I said above if you used in game functions like jump clones to this space with auto medical insurance on death. We already have space in real Eve players can not get to only GM/Dev so you just add some more for this for simulated Pvp / setup testing / FC fleet training. Etc. . ItGÇÖs a limited change thus I think a smaller change in code that you think. I summary this function will give players a chance to try ship setups they may never risk in Real eve. Plus if a new player only wants to play in this NO-RISK Pvp why say they are wrong. ItGÇÖs a no-risk and no-gain but itGÇÖs still a player paying CCP for time so it helps keep Eve in the black. If you want Risk/Gain Pvp you need to undock as always..
Samillian Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos 9	Posted - 2011.10.18 13:40:00 - [29] - Quote I really don't think you get the point of this game.
Vertisce Soritenshi SHADOW WARD Tragedy. 88	Posted - 2011.10.18 18:22:00 - [30] - Quote Samillian wrote: I really don't think you get the point of this game. Since you fail to specify "why" said "unspecified" person doesn't get the point of this game then I can only reply with... No...YOU don't get the point of this game. I have already made my case multiple times as to why this would benifit players of EvE. As have others... I can only assume you think EvE is about PvP. If this is the case you would be wrong. EvE is about a lot of things but primarily about everybody having fun thier way in the sandbox. If that means testing fits in a safe simulated environment before running out to Nullsec with no experience and losing a billion ISK ship then thats what EvE is about for them. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky

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