Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
amurder Hakomairos
Fellowship Of Lost Souls Rebel Alliance of New Eden
2
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Posted - 2012.12.11 01:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Some of the plexes probably are imbalanced with the AI changes...
No, all of the places are imbalanced with the AI changes. With the new AI the number of NPCs in 7/10-10/10 plexes needs to be cut by at least 50%. Either that or the rewards need to significantly to account for the fact that you now need 2 logi and 2 tank/dps boats to do what you used to be able to dual box with 1 tank/dps and 1 logi. Splitting 80M for OPE four ways = plexes no longer worth running.
Also, CCP was told this change was game breaking and chose to ignore and deploy anyway |
Brynhilda
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
92
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 01:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Wah!
My space coins takes effort to win!
If only there was another way to make isk... How may I drug you with drugs? |
DrunkenNinja
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2012.12.11 01:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
All I read was "IT SUCKS THAT NOW NPCS DON'T JUST STUPIDLY ATTACK ONE OVERTANKED TARGET. CCP Y U NERF MY TACKTICS!!??" |
Ahn Tee Mahtur
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 02:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Amanda Haley wrote:As a fellow explorer I feel for you man. I would simply unsub and get it over with. Don't want to throw insults, but CCP has big company problems where changes are driven by people who has little clue about the game, or base on too little research.
Also lol at everyone saluting the change and suggesting "adapt". Bunch of masochists and elite kids club, nothing more. As a working person my self, I don't need such tedious game. As I pay for my subs with real cash, all i need is to grind for pvp, but if that will cause more pain than fun (grind ass off for mere t2 BS fit) I will simply walk away. Tbh this is worse change than the monocle for real money. Difference is not everyone are affected to same degree, hence missile/lazor boats and guys with 5 alts have it easier.
It's funny cause you're right. All the kids that are like "derp adapt derp i like CCP's ****" . They don't run level 4 missions, never ran missions post retribution, and never will run L4's. They're laughing at people who are struggling with missions. Let's put it this way, CCP implement new AI so that they can target new targets and switch targets. They NEVER stated that there would be EW frigs/cruisers and full room aggro however it is stated thats a bug. But I'm pretty fuucking sure they never said EW frigs. |
Fango Mango
University of Caille Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.12.11 02:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
White Sorceress wrote: I like to shoot and I don't like to do market stuff. My accounts cost 1.2b every month that i need to pay to keep my accounts alive. It was already on the border now, spending most of my free time in weekends running damn complexes so survive another month. But now it's over. I don't see any way how to make ISK anymore!
I will wait one month if CCP realizes they totally ****** it up. After that I don't see any other way than letting my accounts expire and wait what happens.
Very bad job CCP, you really need someone who understands this game from inside ! Thumbs down !
Perhaps you should consider an alternative way to fund your Eve account. L5s come to mind . . .
Just selling Ammo to buy orders in jita will get you 1K/LP
That means you need to run about 10-11 L5s to cover your month subscription of 2 accounts.
That should take you about 3 hours/month.
-FM |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1385
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 04:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Removed a personal attack. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2012.12.11 04:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
And there I thought that high-level PvE content (being effectively EvE dungeons) was supposed to be done in gangs with logis. Then people still found a way to do stuff solo(-ish) nevertheless so CCP had to nerf drops, change AI etc...
Hoist by own petard much? |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
553
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 05:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:And there I thought that high-level PvE content (being effectively EvE dungeons) was supposed to be done in gangs with logis. Then people still found a way to do stuff solo(-ish) nevertheless so CCP had to nerf drops, change AI etc...
Hoist by own petard much?
If they want them (high end plexes) done by gangs (like incursions and wormholes) then that's fine, but there shoud then be assured rewards (like encursions and wormholes) instead of chance based drops where you could get little or nothing, else those complexes are not worth doing.
However that is moot, the fact is, some of the high end plexes are so much trouble even a gang would have trouple and potentially take a loss. I (again) would welcome all these smug know-t-all incursion and wormhole people into content with advanced Ai AND 50-60 or more things shooting/ewaring you at once. Why it is still hard for such people to understand that the problem is not with the change per say but with the fact that it was layed over content not fit for it is totally beyond me.
I would welcome high end complexes that require a group effort (like an incursion HQ) if CCP did it right, what I don't welcome is 3 incursion HQs worth of rats shooting at me and my gang all at once and switching targets all over the place, because that's what is happening. if CCP had re-done the high end complexes FIRST then made new AI, I wouldn't be a part of this discussion at all, i'd be to busy recruiting corp mates to go do the 10/10 I just scanned down.
As it is right now the Blood Raider Naval Shipyard I found tonight is just going to sit there unless some else is brave (stupid) enough to try it (i've lost enough logis and 1 loki and my plex buddies have lost an RR Domi each), becuase i refuse to invite folks into a plex where they will lose ships I have to pay for. CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
20
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Posted - 2012.12.11 09:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Never tried to do any blood plexes, but i dont see why you complain about angel plexes - these are most easily tanked and most profitable of all pirate species. Also there are several ways to do them (said vargur setup and classic dd+ab logi).
Last one could even do sansha ones, with exception of 8/10, where you probably will need mjd on battleship to pull distance buy time and get rid of tacklers, since using smart may be too late and these aggroed on logi will be deadly.
The problem is friggin tracking disruptors, which NEVER fall off, even BS ones. Though it is aknowledged as bug (i think) and will be hopefully fixed soon |
Amarra Mandalin
Protocol 52
414
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Posted - 2012.12.11 10:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think the options are to join Test and PvE there or quit losing PvP ships. These are mutually exclusive options. I am quite depressed now. |
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Clith
Tr0pa de elite.
84
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
White Sorceress wrote:
CCP you really should employ someone like me who can test your new changes before you destroy the most important thing and that's income for most people (making ISK by shooting NPC).
Because its not like there is a public test server or anything where you could have helped test and report your findings...
Also, I thought TDT were a wormhole corp that supplied -A- with cheap T3s. You should be used to switching agro.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Bitten.
668
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 12:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Why am I not surprised that a member of AAA is so bad they can't even PVE
I had no idea changing npc AI to switch targets would cause so many delicious tears. I guess I'm just used to it because of wormholes |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1198
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
Couple of troll posts removed and I editted the post topic to make it less shouty.
To everyone, you don't need to be rude to disagree with someone's opinion; please be constructive when you post here. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Cage Man
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Farlig Ekorre wrote:The real rub I have with this change is the fact it hurts the people most who actively play Eve by exploring, running plexes and ratting. In other words, the people who work for the isk are the most harmed, making this a de facto regressive taxation.
.
So what you saying is that mission runners, miners, incursion runners don't "actively play eve" My wife would disagree with you there. I have not been in null for about a year, so can't comment how the changes have impacted it, but I am willing to bet that a couple of RR tengu's will have no problems managing the sites.. even after the missile nerf. As to those of us who "don't actively play eve".... I have switched from 2 x NM's to NM and rattlesnake with T2 sentries, I cap chain and rattlesnake has shield RR and a does round 700 DPS with the drones (just copied what Rain6637 does.. but with less accounts), I just assign drones to the NM. It is a bit more work to manage but it works.. btw when the sentries get primaried.. I just put the rr on them and carry on regardless. Who knows this may even work in null sites... I probably didn't have to change to this.. but not being in a wh and having tons of isk to mess with has made me careful.. |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Malleus Labiarum Solar Citizens
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 08:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
I managed to get through a DED tonight. I had to fly 3 ships instead of 2, and of course pay attention. Knowing they're working on fixing the drones to behave more civilly I thought I'd dip my toes back in the water.
2 - Osprey 3 medium shield transporters 2 medium energy transporters invuln field, explosive hardener medium shield extender large shield booster II 10MN AB damage control PDU co-processor
1 Golem - torpedo fit, full gank. I swapped one target painter for a fed navy web, so I could better hit frigates with torpedos if I run out of drones.
Set the three ships up bouncing energy amongst the three. It should allow for the Osprey to perma shield boost as well as avoid most damage with the 10MN AB. The Golem can then permaboost and not get too worried about its tank.
If need be, the ospreys could throw emergency heals to the Golem. But I never needed it. By the last room, I was bouncing one remote rep off of each osprey from the other just to be safe as they did get aggro just from energy transfers.
It's a different tactic... and the ospreys are cheaper than basis. I also did this unrigged, so I can fine tune it later. |
Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
197
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 09:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
YESSSSS!!! TEABGG!
Now you do realize that hi end complexes were not meant for solo, dual account trickery.
Still, you've made a point. CCP needs to revisit the infamouse 10/10 and Maze with the stupid EM 100 000 EM torpedo battlestation. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
663
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 10:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I managed to get through a DED tonight. I had to fly 3 ships instead of 2, and of course pay attention. Knowing they're working on fixing the drones to behave more civilly I thought I'd dip my toes back in the water.
2 - Osprey 3 medium shield transporters 2 medium energy transporters invuln field, explosive hardener medium shield extender large shield booster II 10MN AB damage control PDU co-processor
1 Golem - torpedo fit, full gank. I swapped one target painter for a fed navy web, so I could better hit frigates with torpedos if I run out of drones.
Set the three ships up bouncing energy amongst the three. It should allow for the Osprey to perma shield boost as well as avoid most damage with the 10MN AB. The Golem can then permaboost and not get too worried about its tank.
If need be, the ospreys could throw emergency heals to the Golem. But I never needed it. By the last room, I was bouncing one remote rep off of each osprey from the other just to be safe as they did get aggro just from energy transfers.
It's a different tactic... and the ospreys are cheaper than basis. I also did this unrigged, so I can fine tune it later.
Exactly which "DED" was this?
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
663
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 10:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:Farlig Ekorre wrote:The real rub I have with this change is the fact it hurts the people most who actively play Eve by exploring, running plexes and ratting. In other words, the people who work for the isk are the most harmed, making this a de facto regressive taxation.
. So what you saying is that mission runners, miners, incursion runners don't "actively play eve" My wife would disagree with you there. I have not been in null for about a year, so can't comment how the changes have impacted it, but I am willing to bet that a couple of RR tengu's will have no problems managing the sites.. even after the missile nerf. As to those of us who "don't actively play eve".... I have switched from 2 x NM's to NM and rattlesnake with T2 sentries, I cap chain and rattlesnake has shield RR and a does round 700 DPS with the drones (just copied what Rain6637 does.. but with less accounts), I just assign drones to the NM. It is a bit more work to manage but it works.. btw when the sentries get primaried.. I just put the rr on them and carry on regardless. Who knows this may even work in null sites... I probably didn't have to change to this.. but not being in a wh and having tons of isk to mess with has made me careful..
This wins for most ignorant post of the day/ No one mentioned mission ruinners or anyone else. However, when "missions runers, miners etc" has to learn how to probe out their content like explorers do, you can come back and tell us about them.
The point of this post is that CCP went about this whole thing the rong way. They should have fit the content around the NPC AI behavior FIRST like they did with incursions and wormholes. And they sholod taylor the rewards to fit.
Not all 10/10s are the same, The MAZE has NOTHING on Blood Raiders Naval Shipyard.
How would wormole and incursion players like to go through the trouble they go through for a CHANCE of a reward? A few years ago, CCP nerfed the 10/10s taking away the guarunteed OPE rewards, probably because people learned to solo 10/10s. That was fine, but now that some of those same plexes are hard to solo, they should bring back the rewards.
But none of this has even been considered, and this carelss approach by CCP demonstrates just how much they think about their most loyal paying customers.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Malleus Labiarum Solar Citizens
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 12:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I managed to get through a DED tonight. I had to fly 3 ships instead of 2, and of course pay attention. Knowing they're working on fixing the drones to behave more civilly I thought I'd dip my toes back in the water.
2 - Osprey 3 medium shield transporters 2 medium energy transporters invuln field, explosive hardener medium shield extender large shield booster II 10MN AB damage control PDU co-processor
1 Golem - torpedo fit, full gank. I swapped one target painter for a fed navy web, so I could better hit frigates with torpedos if I run out of drones.
Set the three ships up bouncing energy amongst the three. It should allow for the Osprey to perma shield boost as well as avoid most damage with the 10MN AB. The Golem can then permaboost and not get too worried about its tank.
If need be, the ospreys could throw emergency heals to the Golem. But I never needed it. By the last room, I was bouncing one remote rep off of each osprey from the other just to be safe as they did get aggro just from energy transfers.
It's a different tactic... and the ospreys are cheaper than basis. I also did this unrigged, so I can fine tune it later. Exactly which "DED" was this?
Angel prisoner retention.
I will say that the day of the patch I had a provincial HQ spawn. My ships were eaten and I never managed to finish it. Logis get aggro just warping in without even locking targets.
|
Tazarak theDeceiver
Malleus Labiarum Solar Citizens
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 12:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Opertone wrote:YESSSSS!!! TEABGG!
Now you do realize that hi end complexes were not meant for solo, dual account trickery.
Still, you've made a point. CCP needs to revisit the infamouse 10/10 and Maze with the stupid EM 100 000 EM torpedo battlestation.
As far as I'm aware there is nothing wrong being a space hermit. I multibox many games.
The biggest appeal if Eve to me has always been the fact I can do laundry, listen to an audio book, hold snd feed my baby all whilst ratting. It's never been a twitch reflex kind of game compared to mist other titles I play. I feel like we've all list something eith these changes. I needed to change a diaper last night but wad scrammed by a belt rat. This is pretty annoying. |
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Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 13:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:White Sorceress wrote: I like to shoot and I don't like to do market stuff. My accounts cost 1.2b every month that i need to pay to keep my accounts alive. It was already on the border now, spending most of my free time in weekends running damn complexes so survive another month. But now it's over. I don't see any way how to make ISK anymore!
I will wait one month if CCP realizes they totally ****** it up. After that I don't see any other way than letting my accounts expire and wait what happens.
Very bad job CCP, you really need someone who understands this game from inside ! Thumbs down ! Perhaps you should consider an alternative way to fund your Eve account. L5s come to mind . . . Just selling Ammo to buy orders in jita will get you 1K/LP That means you need to run about 10-11 L5s to cover your month subscription of 2 accounts. That should take you about 3 hours/month. -FM
Yeah no i run L5's and same deal with ai. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
665
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 16:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I managed to get through a DED tonight. I had to fly 3 ships instead of 2, and of course pay attention. Knowing they're working on fixing the drones to behave more civilly I thought I'd dip my toes back in the water.
2 - Osprey 3 medium shield transporters 2 medium energy transporters invuln field, explosive hardener medium shield extender large shield booster II 10MN AB damage control PDU co-processor
1 Golem - torpedo fit, full gank. I swapped one target painter for a fed navy web, so I could better hit frigates with torpedos if I run out of drones.
Set the three ships up bouncing energy amongst the three. It should allow for the Osprey to perma shield boost as well as avoid most damage with the 10MN AB. The Golem can then permaboost and not get too worried about its tank.
If need be, the ospreys could throw emergency heals to the Golem. But I never needed it. By the last room, I was bouncing one remote rep off of each osprey from the other just to be safe as they did get aggro just from energy transfers.
It's a different tactic... and the ospreys are cheaper than basis. I also did this unrigged, so I can fine tune it later. Exactly which "DED" was this? Angel prisoner retention. I will say that the day of the patch I had a provincial HQ spawn. My ships were eaten and I never managed to finish it. Logis get aggro just warping in without even locking targets. Thr vslues of OPE need to quadruple.
I solo'd Cartel Prisoner Retention yesterday in a Tengu, I jsut moved away from rep range of the station in the 4th room so it wouldn't rep and ignored everything but killing it, book marked the can it dropped, warped of and let it despawn then picked up the lot.
Why ar eyou using a battleship and 2 logis?. Even with the torp changes can a golem hit the station fro outside station rep range (my tengu has a missles speed rig now)?
For everyone else, it must be remembered that despite the DEd rating system (which is worthless and has been for a while), all compelxes are not created equal. Complexes without neutralizing elements can easily be solo'd still and thus aren't broken by the AI changes as much. Complexs with neutralizing and other EWAR elements are broken.
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Hamatitio
Aperture Harmonics K162
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 19:31:00 -
[53] - Quote
If the rewards are currently crap, then everyone will stop running them. Jacking up the prices of complex mods until a point where people feel the risk is worth the reward. If people don't stop running them then maybe they are unhindered by these changes and have adapted.
As a hint for pulling aggro, ECM reallly pisses off sleepers; maybe itll help to keep aggro on your tanked ship. |
Setab Nairromede
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 20:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
The contradicting thing here is that I thought CCP was supposed to be leaning towards rewarding active income generation. This seems to go against this. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
667
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 05:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hamatitio wrote:If the rewards are currently crap, then everyone will stop running them. Jacking up the prices of complex mods until a point where people feel the risk is worth the reward. If people don't stop running them then maybe they are unhindered by these changes and have adapted.
As a hint for pulling aggro, ECM reallly pisses off sleepers; maybe itll help to keep aggro on your tanked ship.
Just because the market will adjust doens't make broken content be unbroken. I'm all for adapting, but can you not understand that CCP went at this whole thing backwards?
How would you like to go up against 4-5 times as many sleepers as you do now only to have people tell you "ah, you'll adapt" lol. Further, how would you wormhole people like your rewards to be utterly random? If CCP wants plexes to not be solo, I'm all for that, make them that way. But the current crap is just unprofessional for a game company. |
Farlig Ekorre
Malleus Labiarum Solar Citizens
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 05:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
The AI gets mad aggro with logistic ships even enter the room. It's a bit over the top. |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 10:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
One of the very very very best changes ever.
I dislike it completely that players were able to nearly autorun high end stuff by using and relying on certain techniques that were simply a design failure. In wormholes sleepers always did change their targets and it was about time that those abusing the missing ability of NPCs changing their targets for their very own benefit.
Also it is good for us explorers that those waiting in plexes nearby the gate to the next pocket until you shot the unlocking NPC and then steal now quickly can become a target - especially if you know how to make the NPCs switch. Best change ever.
Prices go up. More income. Less abusing.
Thanks CCP :) |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 11:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
So basically you guys are mad that you can't use the paper tigers and other strange methods for plexing anymore? It always seemed strange to me, that the rats would happily pound on that one ship that they can't reach/can't break, while completely ignoring the other one that pumps 1k dps or whatever at them. Yes, i too had to sort of retire my tornado, but whatever.
Now drone aggro sometimes seems a bit weird. Whenever i launch my light drones and theres frigates on field, they will immediately redbox my drones ... yet no rat is bothered by my sentries.
Saying "4-5 times as many sleepers" also seem a bit exaggerated, after all sleepers usually are a tad tougher than your average normal rat. |
CydonianKnight
IRIS Industries Pandorum Invictus
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 11:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:So basically you guys are mad that you can't use the paper tigers and other strange methods for plexing anymore? It always seemed strange to me, that the rats would happily pound on that one ship that they can't reach/can't break, while completely ignoring the other one that pumps 1k dps or whatever at them. Yes, i too had to sort of retire my tornado, but whatever.
Now drone aggro sometimes seems a bit weird. Whenever i launch my light drones and theres frigates on field, they will immediately redbox my drones ... yet no rat is bothered by my sentries.
Saying "4-5 times as many sleepers" also seem a bit exaggerated, after all sleepers usually are a tad tougher than your average normal rat.
Basically you summed it up well, you can still explore just as well - find new ways to do it!
Maybe try throwing a micro-jump drive on instead of an AB, let's you get range quickly. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
669
|
Posted - 2012.12.17 14:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ikonia wrote:One of the very very very best changes ever.
I dislike it completely that players were able to nearly autorun high end stuff by using and relying on certain techniques that were simply a design failure. In wormholes sleepers always did change their targets and it was about time that those abusing the missing ability of NPCs changing their targets for their very own benefit.
You are conflating issues basically. CCP disliked people being able to solo high end stuff too, which is why a couple years ago they nerfed the pay outs you get from them (Angel Cartel Naval Shipyard used to drop 5 guaranteed OPE boxes inadditon to the chance of deadspace loot, now it drops 2 maybe, and a chance of deadspace loot).
That nerf was fine, you could still solo them and get a little something and a chance at something big. But this nerf means you have to do things differently, perhaps with mroe people.....for the EXACT same low reward and slim chance at something good.
Again wormhole and incursion people THINK, what if the content you did (which requires organization and paying attention) only offered a CHANCE of reward instead of the pretty much guaranteed.
If CCP wants high in plexes to be group activity, im totally fine with that, but they need to un-nerf them FIRST, which they did not do.
Quote: Also it is good for us explorers that those waiting in plexes nearby the gate to the next pocket until you shot the unlocking NPC and then steal now quickly can become a target - especially if you know how to make the NPCs switch. Best change ever.
Prices go up. More income. Less abusing.
Thanks CCP :)
Waiting in plexes and stealing? Let me guess, you are a high sec explorer (because that only happens in high sec). If so it would be no wonder that you don't understand what we are discussing here. High Sec exploration is literally child's play.
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