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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
669
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Posted - 2012.12.17 14:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:So basically you guys are mad that you can't use the paper tigers and other strange methods for plexing anymore? It always seemed strange to me, that the rats would happily pound on that one ship that they can't reach/can't break, while completely ignoring the other one that pumps 1k dps or whatever at them. Yes, i too had to sort of retire my tornado, but whatever.
Is what some of us are saying so hard to understand?
We did the old plexes the way CCP designed them, with the stupid NPCs. They tried to make them really tough with things like citidel torps and neut towers and bunches of npc ships, but the stupid AI meant all that was easily doable.
So, CCP nerfed the plex rewards because those plexes were soloable. And that was fine.
The problem is that CCP has made a change were some of them aren't so soloable anymore, and that too is fine, but those plexes still have the nerf-level rewards. Point blank, some of those complexes aren't really worth risking, because they take longer you are more exposed to other players killing you, more prone to lose ships etc etc.
The real end result is a sharp uptick in players doing high sec incursions, I hadn't seen it be this hard to get into an incursion fleet (across several communities) in a LONG time and while I have no information on wormholes I expect we'll see an increase in players in those too.
Chasing people away from content and professions might be good for those who are left (I still explore and do plexes), but it's bad game management.
Now drone aggro sometimes seems a bit weird. Whenever i launch my light drones and theres frigates on field, they will immediately redbox my drones ... yet no rat is bothered by my sentries.
Quote: Saying "4-5 times as many sleepers" also seem a bit exaggerated, after all sleepers usually are a tad tougher than your average normal rat.
The point stands. Incursions and Wormholes were built with specific NPC Behaviors in mind, yet for some reason some wormhole and incursion players can't understand how important that is.. The missions and complexes should have been redesigned so the behavior of the NPCs make sense FIRST then had the new AI applied. The way CCP has done this is incredibly backward. |
Angelina Joliee
Project Stealth Squad Initiative Mercenaries
6
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Posted - 2012.12.17 15:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
Just wanted to inform you that i am back in complexing. I do it with two ships again - a rattlesnake and a tempest fleet issue. Both doing damage, tanking and remote-repping. No more dedicated tank or dedicated damage dealer.
Are complexes doable since patch? yes
Is is harder than pre-patch? yes
Do Drones die? yes
Is it more fun than pre-patch? no
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forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
32
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Posted - 2012.12.17 16:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
White Sorceress wrote: My accounts cost 1.2b every month that i need to pay to keep my accounts alive.
You see this is the problem, just cut down an account or two.... |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
41
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
I remember some threads a while back about people saying that PVE was too easy.. don't recall anyone whining now in those threads disagreeing.. mmm too little too late maybe |
Robertina Bering
Local resources exhausted
11
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Posted - 2012.12.18 02:45:00 -
[65] - Quote
I lolled at OP.
You're just DOING IT WRONG, face it. |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.12.18 08:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:People still rat for isk? I thought everyone had personal tech moons like me vOv
Well i do.. But i couldnt say no to extra 2 bil / week im getting from ratting
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Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.12.18 09:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 211212125 wrote:This makes me all warm and Fuzzy inside. I hope this gives all you mission, Plexing peeps an insight what us Wh dwellers have to deal with. And hopefully you may stop crying over the isk we make because we deserve it for what we have to do to make our isk .
Actually this makes me realize that wormholes needs to be nerfed quicly. As they make way too much too easy isk compared to much harder complexes.. Something like +200% in amount of spawning sleepers. And possibility for empty wrecks and no loot. Then we could add bunch of neut and web towers with citadel torpedo |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.12.18 11:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I managed to get through a DED tonight. I had to fly 3 ships instead of 2, and of course pay attention. Knowing they're working on fixing the drones to behave more civilly I thought I'd dip my toes back in the water.
2 - Osprey 3 medium shield transporters 2 medium energy transporters invuln field, explosive hardener medium shield extender large shield booster II 10MN AB damage control PDU co-processor
1 Golem - torpedo fit, full gank. I swapped one target painter for a fed navy web, so I could better hit frigates with torpedos if I run out of drones.
Set the three ships up bouncing energy amongst the three. It should allow for the Osprey to perma shield boost as well as avoid most damage with the 10MN AB. The Golem can then permaboost and not get too worried about its tank.
If need be, the ospreys could throw emergency heals to the Golem. But I never needed it. By the last room, I was bouncing one remote rep off of each osprey from the other just to be safe as they did get aggro just from energy transfers.
It's a different tactic... and the ospreys are cheaper than basis. I also did this unrigged, so I can fine tune it later. Exactly which "DED" was this? Angel prisoner retention. I will say that the day of the patch I had a provincial HQ spawn. My ships were eaten and I never managed to finish it. Logis get aggro just warping in without even locking targets. Thr vslues of OPE need to quadruple.
Angel prisoner retention is easy 8/10 escalation which can also be founded with probes. Ive soloed angel prisoner retention in tengu post patch.. Just saying... |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
38
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Posted - 2012.12.20 09:27:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ikonia wrote:One of the very very very best changes ever.
I dislike it completely that players were able to nearly autorun high end stuff by using and relying on certain techniques that were simply a design failure. In wormholes sleepers always did change their targets and it was about time that those abusing the missing ability of NPCs changing their targets for their very own benefit. You are conflating issues basically. CCP disliked people being able to solo high end stuff too, which is why a couple years ago they nerfed the pay outs you get from them (Angel Cartel Naval Shipyard used to drop 5 guaranteed OPE boxes inadditon to the chance of deadspace loot, now it drops 2 maybe, and a chance of deadspace loot). That nerf was fine, you could still solo them and get a little something and a chance at something big. But this nerf means you have to do things differently, perhaps with mroe people.....for the EXACT same low reward and slim chance at something good. Again wormhole and incursion people THINK, what if the content you did (which requires organization and paying attention) only offered a CHANCE of reward instead of the pretty much guaranteed. If CCP wants high in plexes to be group activity, im totally fine with that, but they need to un-nerf them FIRST, which they did not do. Quote: Also it is good for us explorers that those waiting in plexes nearby the gate to the next pocket until you shot the unlocking NPC and then steal now quickly can become a target - especially if you know how to make the NPCs switch. Best change ever.
Prices go up. More income. Less abusing.
Thanks CCP :)
Waiting in plexes and stealing? Let me guess, you are a high sec explorer (because that only happens in high sec). If so it would be no wonder that you don't understand what we are discussing here. High Sec exploration is literally child's play.
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Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
38
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Posted - 2012.12.20 09:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
..
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Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
21
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Posted - 2012.12.20 11:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Did sansha 10/10 with abaddon+ab guardian with medium rep. Pretty easy if you pay attention and kill cruisers and frigates fast - battleships wont hit ABing logistic. Same thing with sansha 7/10 (successfully completed one), and most probably 6/10 (didnt see one for like a half of year, really rare one)
Didn't try 8/10 - last pocket always had lots of ewar, and with bugged TD it will be almost impossible i think. Not worth time anyway - like 19 of 20 will drop only box.
On the other hand, angel plexes: succesfully completed angel 8/10 with tempest+ab logi. Again, no problem, though tempest doing it little slower than machariel :) If this setup does angel 8/10, it can do all other angel DED with no problems.
Don't know anything about guristas, probably you will never get out of jam here
Blood plexes...saw the descriptions, don't even want to try |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
694
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Posted - 2012.12.20 13:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ikonia wrote: So you are complaining about not having guaranteed loot for few to no effort? Lame.
So you can't read English? what part of that was hard to understand? CCP nerfed the plex payouts because they are soloable (I guess you didn't read the part where I said "THIS IS FINE"), now that some of them aren't they should revisit the issue.
You're a genius.
Ikonia wrote:
Let me guess, you are nullsec carebearing plex runner, because only those think it would only happen in highsec. Nope, that happens everywhere. In highsec maybe like you said "childs play" and only for stealing. In lowsec pirates and plorers are competing (you notice the difference when a plorer just sneaks by and a pirate opens fire) and in nullsec by those claiming it their own additional.
As usual, the high sec person doesn't understand anything outside of High Sec. Come try a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (ie actually LEARN something), then come tell me how bad that Empire 4/10 was lol.
Unbelievable. |
Lonig
Red Lightning Logistics
0
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
forestwho wrote:White Sorceress wrote: My accounts cost 1.2b every month that i need to pay to keep my accounts alive.
You see this is the problem, just cut down an account or two....
Just pointing out how every PLEX started with a real money purchase. So the fact some won't be able to make enough to pay for plexes, will lead to less sales and accounts. They won't be truly 'quitting', but they'll drop an account or two as they can't afford the plex. And since plenty of other methods for making rather crazy isk exist, the cost of PLEX won't drop much, if it does at all. So in the end, it's a net loss for the game. Even a plex'er is a payer. I like isk too much to buy them myself, but I understand their value to the community.
I also understand CCP wanting to change AI to be more involved. But the fact that test server folks have been complaining about this for quite awhile, has me believe they are truly sold on this AI being the future. I'd say the community should focus (like many in this thread already have) on the fact that they need to quickly redo the missions/complexes/etc to make them not be so incredibly overpowered against the player.
I myself don't run complexes, and I do very few missions (a few L4s now and then). But even I noticed how badly they are toned compared to the past. My poor little drones are such a pita. Swapping back to a Raven, which to me is even less fun than a drone boat. Overall, all the AI change has done is lower income of a couple specific profit paths, and make drone sales increase. Being a manufacturer, I am greatful for the latter as I've made a ton more on drones since Ret than probably the previous year (I'm not exaggerating by much). I can't produce them fast enough for certain markets.
Anyway, my point being, that we as a community should focus on asking for mission/complex balancing and not throwing hissy fits over the AI. They knew we wouldn't like the AI, they've known for quite awhile thanks to the test players. So we need to accept that they are willing to put up with this, and direct them toward the obvious changes they can make (mission/complex balance) that might actually let us adapt properly.
/endrant |
Cage Man
Evil Guinea Pigs
42
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Posted - 2012.12.20 18:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
There are other ways to make isk in eve.. including null. I used to sit in a sentry carrier and burn through havens/hub/sunctums in an upgraded system for hours making 40-50mil and hour. PI is pretty good out in null also (each account has 3 toons, use them.. training PI is quick). Good thing about sentries is you can rep them when they get targeted. |
Tasiv Deka
Jadablade Redneck Rage
49
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Posted - 2012.12.21 06:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Keko Khaan wrote:Caldari Citizen 211212125 wrote:This makes me all warm and Fuzzy inside. I hope this gives all you mission, Plexing peeps an insight what us Wh dwellers have to deal with. And hopefully you may stop crying over the isk we make because we deserve it for what we have to do to make our isk .
Actually this makes me realize that wormholes needs to be nerfed quicly. As they make way too much too easy isk compared to much harder complexes.. Something like +200% in amount of spawning sleepers. And possibility for empty wrecks and no loot. Then we could add bunch of neut and web towers with citadel torpedo Also reminds me that wh's can be soloed even in drake. Yes C2 or something.. I know alot guys that soloes even higer class wh's with tengu and salvager alt.. Soo why is this content made for gangs doable as solo?
You can solo c3s in a tengu it was "possible" to solo c4's pre missle nerf but it took way too long due to low dps and was too risky in a hole that wasnt your own, a little too risky in a hole that was your own as well. Took even longer for c5s if you could manage to kill the BS's
and also on c4s and lower the main income comes from nano ribbons which are chance based drops there were nights i would grind out 15 to 20 sites and would barely walk away with 75 mil after paying for ammo and my share of fuel, of course there were also nights i would hit 5-10 sites and walk away with almost half a billon in net profit... so maybe they should change the rewards a bit... but they should also tweak the RNG to match
TLDR: Yes you can solo low to mid whs but the reward isnt always stellar (essentially the bounties/tags could be all you get), so maybe its not the loot table but the RNG that needs looked at... for everything. Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts...-á
The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth. |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
40
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Posted - 2012.12.25 12:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ikonia wrote: So you are complaining about not having guaranteed loot for few to no effort? Lame.
So you can't read English? what part of that was hard to understand? CCP nerfed the plex payouts because they are soloable (I guess you didn't read the part where I said "THIS IS FINE"), now that some of them aren't they should revisit the issue. You're a genius. Ikonia wrote:
Let me guess, you are nullsec carebearing plex runner, because only those think it would only happen in highsec. Nope, that happens everywhere. In highsec maybe like you said "childs play" and only for stealing. In lowsec pirates and plorers are competing (you notice the difference when a plorer just sneaks by and a pirate opens fire) and in nullsec by those claiming it their own additional.
As usual, the high sec person doesn't understand anything outside of High Sec. Come try a Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (ie actually LEARN something), then come tell me how bad that Empire 4/10 was lol. Unbelievable.
Im not a geniuos. But for someone who a) doesnt use his original toon for posting or b) never has had any pvp wins or losses though he claims to be ub0rexperienced in null sec your points are so far from reality that i guess im discussing with a troll.
Had more drops than ever since the patch. Primarily in null sec, few in low sec, few in high sec. Highsec drops are lower. I think low sec drops are even to before. Nullsec had a significant feelable plus on drops. Never made so much in such few time ever before, not even in my most lucky runs. And all plexes are by now much more easy to solo than before, i dont get it what you are complaining about.
Guess you are a troll and me dumb enough to discuss. |
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