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Princess Skye
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:07:00 -
[1]
Why is it that whenever you get attacked by pirates they either just destroy your ship, pod or ransom you?
This is not piracy - it is pretty lame and unimaginative murder (the ransom bit excluded)
Why is it that none of you pirates send a message like - jettison your cargo and we will let you go?
Then you have someone in a similar ship to pick up the cargo and sell it to make a profit - this is what real piracy is about.
At the moment most so called 'pirates' are just murderers and should not use the term 'pirate' and then a lot of others who charge a price to enter their space are little more than mafia and should also not identify themselves as 'pirates' but as organised crime syndicates.
By the way I have posted in the wants forum that I am looking for corpses please check it out.
Princess Skye
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:09:00 -
[2]
They do it because they can. That sums it up, end of discussion  ------------------------------------------
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:10:00 -
[3]
I'm not a pirate, but any of them will tell you that it's easier to destroy the ship and loot the droppings than ransom someone or ask for you to jettison your cargo. Some do, but most don't.
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Princess Skye
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:16:00 -
[4]
hmmm - another form of piracy could be that they ask you to abandon ship and have someone in a shuttle in order to take it back to their base - but the general rule of past pirates was that if you fought you got destroyed (podded in eve's case) and if you gave up to their demands then you lost your cargo only - except in the case of battleships in which you lost your ship too and were cast a drift (in your pod).
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H0ot
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Princess Skye At the moment most so called 'pirates' are just murderers and should not use the term 'pirate' and then a lot of others who charge a price to enter their space are little more than mafia and should also not identify themselves as 'pirates' but as organised crime syndicates.
You seem to have this misconception that pirates in real life are somehow friendly and easy going people. Been watching Pirates of the Caribbean too much lately?
There is still piracy going on today - in places like Indonesia around the Malakka Straights there is a very high risk of piracy along the main shipping routes.
They're not something out of a Disney movie either. They often kill their victims to prevent witnesses from talking to the authorities afterwards.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |

Static Ga'lraith
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Posted - 2005.05.14 12:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Static Ga''lraith on 14/05/2005 13:52:05 Yarrr 4tw!
Pirating is intensely hard to do now without being called a 'griefer' or other choice words that would probably get blocked by the profanity filter. The fact is that a pirate has to work fast and be strict with both himself and the ransomee.
Don't accept/reply to the convo in time? Possible log off = podded.
Won't stop your pod from moving to the gate after being warned? Possible escape attempt = podded.
We're not into piracy to make friends, nor to intentionally ruin someone's day, we're in it simply to get paid. You don't see me whining at builders and calling them griefers because their price is higher than another person's prices. I make the choice to go to elsewhere for my equipment, just like the person being ransomed can choose to pay, or not to pay. This is how I choose to play the game that I pay for and I'm thankful to CCP for giving me the freedom to make that choice.
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:09:00 -
[7]
Who are you to define what piracy is?
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:14:00 -
[8]
due to game mechanics its easier to kill some1 and get their loot etc than to ransom them/do whatever you had in mind ------------------
Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine |

Kin Hanyerec
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:18:00 -
[9]
but ofc you can still contact those people and pay for protection, before they catch you at gates... or nobody does the "insurances" anymore ?
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Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:19:00 -
[10]
I concur, and generally most people don't have anything to lose.
Hence (when on my own) I never ask for a ransom. If my target wants to be ransomed, he's free to ask in a convo and I'll give him a ransom.
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MrMorph
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:26:00 -
[11]
Piracy - A single person or a group or gild, that preys of other people. Either by extortion or by removing assets from the victim.
Piracy is killing and/or extorting values for purpose of own profit. ---------------------------------------------- Trishys cookies they are !
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IamBen
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:30:00 -
[12]
Its very hard to ransom people: Especially in 0.0. While the pirate is saying drop your cargo, the person being pirated calling for help or stalling to find a way out. Thats why most pirates just blast away.
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Princess Skye
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:40:00 -
[13]
>>There is still piracy going on today - in places like Indonesia around the Malakka Straights there is a very high risk of piracy along the main shipping routes.<<
The latest piracy incident involved the Idaten - 3 people were kidnapped and held to ransom which was paid - the people were well treated by the pirates- the rest of the crew escaped unharmed. There is a good possibility however that these were not pirates but terrorists seeking funding for their campaign. They were described as being in military fatigues and being militarily trained.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:43:00 -
[14]
Thanks for defining piracy for the rest of us. I'm sure everyone agrees with your disney-men-in-tights-musical-comedy version of piracy. I'll personally be getting a pair of tights and singing "Yo ho! Yo ho!" for my next victim, while we have a cup of tea and discuss football (In a respectful and polite manner). -
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juduzz
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Viceroy I'll personally be getting a pair of tights and singing "Yo ho! Yo ho!" for my next victim, while we have a cup of tea and discuss football (In a respectful and polite manner).
Your going to play WOW?  ----------------------------------------------
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Tragar
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Princess Skye hmmm - another form of piracy could be that they ask you to abandon ship and have someone in a shuttle in order to take it back to their base - but the general rule of past pirates was that if you fought you got destroyed (podded in eve's case) and if you gave up to their demands then you lost your cargo only - except in the case of battleships in which you lost your ship too and were cast a drift (in your pod).
Now why would anyone eject from there ship and lose anything up to 125 million isk when they can just sit there, be killed and claim insurance?
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Pehova Mindtriq
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Posted - 2005.05.14 13:56:00 -
[17]
Pirates kill people even i real life. You can call them murderers but they are still pirates, get over it!
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xOm3gAx
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Posted - 2005.05.14 14:23:00 -
[18]
Pirates are: Murderers, Thieves, Plumeters, Pillagers, blah blah blah if it involves personal gain they do it... that is it it doesnt matter if htey have to kill you to get it what ever the fast and easy way is is the pirate way to get rich... now me in rl im decended from pirates and they did all of the above quite well i might add... i think most of them died from discentary though =/ anyway regaurdless its all about the wallet... YaR!! ----------------- *Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
~~~My Banner got nerfed~~~ But I still love the mods anyway
Succumb to your nightmares Darkness shall embrace you |

Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.05.14 16:15:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 14/05/2005 16:15:17 nm _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |

Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.05.14 19:03:00 -
[20]
Disney pirating is actually quite difficult. Next time I have enough guys, I'd be happy to try negotiating ransoms, or jettisons etc. But if you are camping in empire, you have a lot of things to do, tank sentries, have a fast lock, do real damage, scramble, web, watch for logouts etc etc. Add in cargo/ship scanning and it just gets that much harder. Currently I usually just ransom pods, they are the easiest to ransom and people are often willing to pay our modest fees when they've got a head full if implants.
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Theresa Tusktooth
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Posted - 2005.05.14 20:00:00 -
[21]
And, if its a hauler ure killing. It might have expanders fitted, and they are quite hard to jettison... 
The Key To Winning Any Fight Is Simply Staying Alive. |

Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.14 20:25:00 -
[22]
CCP forces piracy to be...mean, I mean first of all oyu need to be in a BS to even attempt gate piracy, so no artists can really pirate.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |

Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.05.14 21:00:00 -
[23]
The highway man form of piracy has essentially been killed to due changes in the games mechanics over time.
These are only some examples of things that while not individually responsible together pretty much turned empire piracy into gate "ganks"...
Default 40% insurance... The victim often has alot less to loose these days and so trying to set a worthwhile ransom fee rarely bears fruit. In the end you often make more isk from taking whatever loot and cargo survives the ships destruction than any ransom you can demand from the ship itself.
Super Sentries... The changes on sentry guns now make them much much tougher than the old days which means ships camping gates rarely have time to sit and negotiate with the victim as their tank could fail in a short time forcing them to warp out. Add to that the fact that you need to fit modules such as webbers and warp scramblers to hold the victim in place but these very modules will cripple your ships ability to tank as well. The only other remaining option at a gate is to snipe from it outside sentry range, and you would be truely amazed at how many ships would be prepared to stop approaching the gate or from trying to warp out so you could ransom them from there, so you're remaining option is to just blow them to dust and have a hauler come along and take the loot.
Amoung other things there are several other factors that discourage attempting ransoms...
Log out tactics... Alot of people still continue to try and log out to save their ships when trapped. The only way to ensure you get them is to have enough firepower to take the ship down before it magically vanishes into lala land and hence, an encouragement to develop high damage "gank" setups.
Risk cushions and easy isk... Players are much much richer these days and there are a cushions in place for when things do go wrong. This is meant to be an encouragement to pvp but as it reduces the risks and the damage from when risks don't work out it reduces the amount you can expect somone to realistically pay as a ransom and so why bother?
Player attitude... Most of the time you open a convo to try and ransom people and you will be insulted or simply told to f' off (or similar). While you can understand the person not being happy about it sooner or later you start to wonder what the point of making the effort is and so simply shooting them first and ignoring any flames later becomes more attractive.
Inability to actually hunt... Often people cry about gate campers and ask why we don't go and attack people in the belts etc. Simple answer is that hunting requires an ability to ambush the prey before they know what's going on. Becuase of the local channel this is more or less impossible unless the target is afk, asleep, stupid or has suddenly gone blind and more often than not your target is long long gone before you can find where they were. Add to that that you only tend to find miners and npcers in asteroid belts where as traders/haulers and mission runners don't go anywhere near them. However, everyone has to use gates so that's where the best pickings are.
There are a great deal more reasons for piracy becoming what it is. The devs have been on a mission to kill it off for some time (or so it certainly seems) and have so far managed to turn it into what you get today. Speaking personally I only know of a handful of corps that actively organised themselves in order to make lower sec systems better, the typical reaction of most other players is to demand the devs to do somthing about it for them instead of making the effort to secure the space themselves (either due to laziness or lack of imagination).
Oh and just becuase YOU don't define piracy as what it is today in eve doesn't mean it isn't actually piracy to other people.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |

nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.14 21:21:00 -
[24]
Got jumped by BNC, even though I lost a Ferox and my pod to them the second time, both of the BNC pilots I spoke to were fairly cool guys (take heart Blacklight one of your corp mates nailed me) .
The one that nailed my pod even apologised for not asking for a ransom.
Memo to self "avoid delve"...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Thomas Torquemada
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Posted - 2005.05.14 22:27:00 -
[25]
Wild Rho's post pretty much sums up the current state of affairs.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |

Discodude
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Posted - 2005.05.14 22:44:00 -
[26]
Simply put.
I would usually pod someone to prevent him from warning the rest of the ppl in the system.
Ex. Have a system with 25 ppl in it catch 1 but let his pod go. Next thing you see him yelling over local "Pirate in system" there goes many more possable victims.
Also why would you ask for someone's cargo which may be total crap when his mod's may be worth WAY more then his cargo.
-----------------------------------------------
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his" General George Patton Jr. |

Sochin
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Posted - 2005.05.14 22:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sochin on 14/05/2005 22:51:04 lol, if all we did was force people to jettision their cargo then let them go all we'd end up with is a ton of ammo.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.05.14 23:04:00 -
[28]
What Rho said.
The amount of abuse you receive from people is rediculous, but at the same time it keeps me in this career. 
At the end of the day, i tend to ransom usually, after telling whoever i have tackled to stop their ship, and deactivate their offensive modules (guns and stuff).
From here, the situation plays out one of a few ways :
50% of people scream at you, tell you to feck off, and try and mwd away, they then get their ships destroyed, and their pod gets ransomed for double the asking price asked for the ship (sometimes more depending on the age and corp of the character). Pay, or pod. Most of the 50% chose a trip to the cloning facility, and their remains of their ships are salvaged. Abuse, and possibly death threats or corp/allaince ganking threats ensure.
30% of people have all or most of their low slots packed out with WCS, and they run away screaming off in local, and hurling abuse, and saying their corp/alliance are coming to get you. Sometimes you're even lucky and get hatemail.
15% freeze up, and don't know what to do. These people are grief stricken when you destroy their ship, and threaten to quit eve, get you banned, etc, and appeal to your sympathetic side for thier stuff back.
The other 5% of people reject the ransom price, fight back, and sometimes die, or kill you. Either way, afterwards, these people take it well, congratulate/console you, no hard feelings, and they understand what's gone on. They converse in a civil manner and are generally nice people.
Simply destroying the ship, and/or ransoming the pod and salvaging the modules is the most cost effective way to operate.
If i want to murder people in eve, i will do. It's not against the rules. I AM a pirate, i murder, ransom, extort, mutilate, destroy and salvage what I can.
I also accept that with the sucess of my career, comes risk, and hatred. If a bunch of crazed lunatics come for revenge, and i die, i accept it as a work hazard, pick up the pieces and move on.
It's easy to pass judgement on a career path in eve, so don't do it until you've experienced it from the angle of attack.
I've been a miner, mission runner, NPC bounty hunter, and done a short stint as a lab-rat, before i joined SNIGG and turned pirate.
I have to say, this is the most active profession i've ever had in game, and keeps the adrenalyn coarsing every time i go into an engagement.
For some people, it's not having a 20-figure bank balance, and stupid amounts of faction ships and mods that makes them enjoy the game, it's that feeling of being alive, and venerable. The feeling you get every time you get a target lock, or are locked by someone.
For me, it's a mixture on insecurity, and adrenayln. That's the reason i log in every day.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET |

Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.05.14 23:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Wild Rho The highway man form of piracy has essentially been killed to due changes in the games mechanics over time.
These are only some examples of things that while not individually responsible together pretty much turned empire piracy into gate "ganks"...
Default 40% insurance... The victim often has alot less to loose these days and so trying to set a worthwhile ransom fee rarely bears fruit. In the end you often make more isk from taking whatever loot and cargo survives the ships destruction than any ransom you can demand from the ship itself.
Super Sentries... The changes on sentry guns now make them much much tougher than the old days which means ships camping gates rarely have time to sit and negotiate with the victim as their tank could fail in a short time forcing them to warp out. Add to that the fact that you need to fit modules such as webbers and warp scramblers to hold the victim in place but these very modules will cripple your ships ability to tank as well. The only other remaining option at a gate is to snipe from it outside sentry range, and you would be truely amazed at how many ships would be prepared to stop approaching the gate or from trying to warp out so you could ransom them from there, so you're remaining option is to just blow them to dust and have a hauler come along and take the loot.
Amoung other things there are several other factors that discourage attempting ransoms...
Log out tactics... Alot of people still continue to try and log out to save their ships when trapped. The only way to ensure you get them is to have enough firepower to take the ship down before it magically vanishes into lala land and hence, an encouragement to develop high damage "gank" setups.
Risk cushions and easy isk... Players are much much richer these days and there are a cushions in place for when things do go wrong. This is meant to be an encouragement to pvp but as it reduces the risks and the damage from when risks don't work out it reduces the amount you can expect somone to realistically pay as a ransom and so why bother?
Player attitude... Most of the time you open a convo to try and ransom people and you will be insulted or simply told to f' off (or similar). While you can understand the person not being happy about it sooner or later you start to wonder what the point of making the effort is and so simply shooting them first and ignoring any flames later becomes more attractive.
Inability to actually hunt... Often people cry about gate campers and ask why we don't go and attack people in the belts etc. Simple answer is that hunting requires an ability to ambush the prey before they know what's going on. Becuase of the local channel this is more or less impossible unless the target is afk, asleep, stupid or has suddenly gone blind and more often than not your target is long long gone before you can find where they were. Add to that that you only tend to find miners and npcers in asteroid belts where as traders/haulers and mission runners don't go anywhere near them. However, everyone has to use gates so that's where the best pickings are.
There are a great deal more reasons for piracy becoming what it is. The devs have been on a mission to kill it off for some time (or so it certainly seems) and have so far managed to turn it into what you get today. Speaking personally I only know of a handful of corps that actively organised themselves in order to make lower sec systems better, the typical reaction of most other players is to demand the devs to do somthing about it for them instead of making the effort to secure the space themselves (either due to laziness or lack of imagination).
Oh and just becuase YOU don't define piracy as what it is today in eve doesn't mean it isn't actually piracy to other people.
This is the best post ever.
I wish I could put the whole thing into my sig. ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.05.14 23:47:00 -
[30]
Very good posts from both Wild Rho and Verone. Consider this thread answered.
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