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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2226
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 07:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
I haven't trained a new skill all year. I'm not sure why there's so much excitement about neural remaps.
If you're using your starter neural remaps more than once every 6 months, you're doing it wrong. Start with the stats you started with, train some of the important skills from each category, then remap into a path for ship/weapon training or science/engineering/electronics training, or whatever. Stick to that for 6 or more months then use your bonus remap to switch to another complementary path. Then plan on 1 remap a year.
I'd be happier if we lost attributes and remaps altogether. Just another hurdle for new players. How do you explain in less than five pages of single spaced text just what attribute remaps are, what bonus remaps are, how attributes impact training speed, how implants factor in to all of this, etc.?
Sure, removing attributes would "dumb the game down" so that experienced players would have fewer ways of demonstrating their mastery of the game to newer players.
At this point I'd really like to suggest that everyone get into the DUST 514 beta. It's an awesome game!
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10647
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 07:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Should remaps be added to the Aurum store? Discuss! PLEX for remap was the cause of the original outrage that made CCP promise not to put MT or P2W into the game. Letting people pay to ignore game mechanics was a horrible idea then and it's a horrible idea now, so no, it really really shouldn't.
Quote:On the flip side, I've heard people a little bit sad/angry they won't get another remap and will be stuck in their current remap longer than planned. Remaps happen once a year. You're meant to be stuck for them for a year. If a single year is GÇ£longer than plannedGÇ¥ then the problem is that the plan was flawed to begin with.
Sentient Blade wrote:New players, and I count anyone under 10m SP, don't have enough information to make informed choices on attribute selections and the likes. It's often the case that they barely know what they'll be doing next week, nevermind a year from now. GǪand that is why they get two remaps right off the bat: so they can adjust their mistakes after having learned what is good to have and what is not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
817
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 08:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nope |

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
74
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 09:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:So, I ask, how does this make you feel?
It doesn't really, it just is.
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Should remaps be brought back?
Maybe as something really special, like for the 10th anniversary for example.
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Should presents always be cosmetic?
Mostly yes.
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Should remaps be added to the Aurum store?
Absolutely not! Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |

ACE McFACE
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
890
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 09:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote: On the flip side, I've heard people a little bit sad/angry they won't get another remap and will be stuck in their current remap longer than planned.
You should tell these people that they shouldn't plan for something that was never guaranteed
"No one drove in New York, there was too much traffic." |

Terrorfrodo
GNADE Inc.
288
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 09:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:New players don't know enough about the game to know how important remaps are to get right. Some of them burn all their remaps in the first few weeks and don't even realize why that's a bad thing. Which is why they get two additional chances to realize that remaps are important. (I recently made a new alt and noticed that they get a regular remap now +2 bonus remaps)
iskflakes wrote:There should be consequences for your actions, but it shouldn't be impossible to correct your mistake. It isn't. Make the mistake once, then use your additional newbie remap to correct it. Make the mistake twice, use another one to correct it. Make the same mistake thrice, live with the consequence or just acknowledge that you're too dumb for EVE and quit.
I had hoped for a bonus remap too, but always built my skill plans around the possibility that there may not be one this year. . |

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 10:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:
On the flip side, I've heard people a little bit sad/angry they won't get another remap and will be stuck in their current remap longer than planned.
Speaking purely as a player; it baffles me that people plan their strategies around un-announced freebies. I wouldn't mind a free remap either, but I'd never plan my skilling around the assumption that I'll be getting a free one. My old manager use to tell me 'to assume, makes an ASS of U and ME 
Assumption is a mother, isn't it? |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1650
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 11:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Calling your own thread a 'Megathread' is rather optimistic isnt it? COME AT ME BRO
I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION |

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
196
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 11:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Still waiting on the mega to happen in this megathread. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |

James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1457
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 11:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
I have a timed remap on my char. It just so happens to come about right when I don't actually want to use a remap. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |

Daimon Kaiera
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 12:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hey guys, I don't know how to re-attribute for a 100% pony-bear or whatever lifestyle. For mining only is below even okay, okay?
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6622/afwa.png
Please help recieve very much thank do not want mistake make. Also I make think for year ahead bad too much work. µû¦püùpüäpéópââpâùpâçpâ+pâêpüïpéëpü«µé¬sÅúpüîsç¦püªpüÅpéïs¦ªpü½S+¦pü½1ISKpéÆpüÅpéîpéîpü¦Tçæµîüpüípü«s¡ÿs£¿pü+ sñ¬tïù100sŦS+ÑS+èpéÆF¦+püêpéïpÇé |

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
347
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 12:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Hey guys, I don't know how to re-attribute for a 100% pony-bear or whatever lifestyle. For mining only is below even okay, okay? http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6622/afwa.pngPlease help recieve very much thank do not want mistake make. Also I make think for year ahead bad too much work.
wot? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
75
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 12:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Considering the fact that we "have to" train for Destroyers and Battlecruisers V to avoid having to train four times these racial skills later, the idea of another free remap would be more than acceptable :) *Yelling "Manticooore !" on teamspeak* |

Daimon Kaiera
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 13:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Hey guys, I don't know how to re-attribute for a 100% pony-bear or whatever lifestyle. For mining only is below even okay, okay? http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6622/afwa.pngPlease help recieve very much thank do not want mistake make. Also I make think for year ahead bad too much work. wot?
Did I mimic the, "Can't speak well and wants help." grammar well? µû¦püùpüäpéópââpâùpâçpâ+pâêpüïpéëpü«µé¬sÅúpüîsç¦püªpüÅpéïs¦ªpü½S+¦pü½1ISKpéÆpüÅpéîpéîpü¦Tçæµîüpüípü«s¡ÿs£¿pü+ sñ¬tïù100sŦS+ÑS+èpéÆF¦+püêpéïpÇé |

Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
611
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 13:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Considering the fact that we "have to" train for Destroyers and Battlecruisers V to avoid having to train four times these racial skills later, the idea of another free remap would be more than acceptable :)
That kind of solid logic is not allowed here!  |

Kehro Urgus
Ab Obice Saevior
555
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 13:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Daimon Kaiera wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Daimon Kaiera wrote:Hey guys, I don't know how to re-attribute for a 100% pony-bear or whatever lifestyle. For mining only is below even okay, okay? http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6622/afwa.pngPlease help recieve very much thank do not want mistake make. Also I make think for year ahead bad too much work. wot? Did I mimic the, "Can't speak well and wants help." grammar well?
Have you tried "me love you long time"? Nibiru approaches... so give me all your stuff.
|

octahexx Charante
Morior Invictus. Ethereal Dawn
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 16:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
considering skillchanges that are coming i thinka neural remap would be really nice,would also let people who wasted their time on caldari to crosstrain into something useful. |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
739
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 16:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Altrue wrote:Considering the fact that we "have to" train for Destroyers and Battlecruisers V to avoid having to train four times these racial skills later, the idea of another free remap would be more than acceptable :) That kind of solid logic is not allowed here! 
Strange, I needed no remap at all to complete those 2 particular skills. Of course, I trained them long ago when the racial desi and BC skills were first announced, but sure, lets help out everyone who didnt plan ahead and now wants yet another easy button. I guess 2 or 3 extra days of training for you will for sure kill your Eve.
Ps- Just to head off your eventual "Ill unsub (#) accounts for (reason) " threads, Your stuff, is it spoken for? Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Tiberius StarGazer
The Destined
259
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 17:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
I am less than a year old and Im just on my way to 7m sp. I've used all my remaps, but to say "Well your an idiot for using your remaps in such a short time is all your fault" is a bit narrow minded and frankly, insulting.
Litterally, a new players mentality is
First go: New buttons what do theses do? Read wiki, and mess about.
Second go: So now I know what this does, I'll do this and make it better.
Third go: I've changed my mind and I want to train something else, or last few tweaks to enhance plan.
And that's it. Your committed. Which personally I think is fine and fair. Three starting maps are great for the first year.
What this thread doesn't explain is are remaps stopping altogether? I doubt it.
Is this thread suggesting we should pay for remaps? Yes, and I like the suggestion. But I'll expand on that later.
I can be quite a fickle person, and to be perfectly honest, a lot of casual gamers are as well. While from a hardcore eve lifer the whole "Once you have chosen your path you must walk it forever otherwise get an alt because any other method is not efficient." is, IMHO, pretty narrow minded. New players gaming experience is in a lot of flux, one week you might be mining, the next in a WH corp, so it's quite right that 3 re-maps are offered because I doubt any new player really knows what they are doing, I know I didn't, and I don't see why anyone else should expect them too either.
I personally like to try something different every few months. I discover a new module, or ship, or weapon, and I like to dip my toe into it and run with it for a few weeks or a few months. For me it keeps the experience fresh. But not being able to remap means that training plans over 2/3months can be extended by days. And for me, I'm not keen on it.
This is probably where a lot of players are going "Get and Alt then!"
Simple reason, which many seem to forget, is that not everyone can dual box, have multi clients, afford to Pay or invest the time to generate 600m ISK a week to pay for both alts. Or, as with me, I like my one toon, and I don't want to change him, I've invested time.. a lot of time, (and I realise we all invest time) into this toon and I really cannot fathom investing anymore time into a new charecter. I work 50 hours a week and I just can't do it.
CCP has three options on remaps.
Keep as is, but then must adhere to a regular release schedule. It is unfair to include a game mechanic that people come to expect and not stick to it unless they are replacing it with another system with no notification. My toon for example is mapped for industry, but in the last week I have taken up residence in a WH this has vastly changed my skill plan for the next year, Im having to consider different haulage methods using cloakey transports, different defensive worries, and generally all the good things that come with WH life that I'm learning to deal with. So the prospect of not having that re-map suddenly becomes a big worry, particularly as having the wrong one can add days, even weeks to a year skill plan.
Second get rid of attributes all together. Which I also am not adverse to, mainly because it will get rid of this argument that keeps cropping up all the time, but also will level the playing field for everyone. But will remove players ability to specialise their toons to train for certain things faster, but at least then if you want to swap and change you can and surely that's a good thing.
3rd and final, Eve needs ISK sinks? Why not make a neural remap a purchasable voucher that's spawned by NPC stations with medical centres? It would defiantly fit in nicely in the eve universe as a service for your clone. But no, I'm not even considering doing it via AUR, it's a totally superficial game currency for dressing up your virtual barbie. Since ISK can buy PLEX and PLEX can buy AUR I just feel AUR is over complicating what should be a single currency market IMO. Either way, the importance of re-mapping is kept, because you have to spend ISK on it, and therefor you can give the people the choice of wasting ISK or not when you could continue on your path.
Just my thoughts on it, but I would personally want players to have either stability of a mechanic, the removal of the mechanic, or the choice.
Appologies for grammar and spelling, all done on a train on an iPhone. |

Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
547
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 17:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Remap items should be a player-based industry that uses, as its material cost, biomatter and implant components harvested from player corpses.
To prevent mass alt-podding (at least, without cost), such harvested materials should be restricted to clones above a certain grade and those carrying implants. |

Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 17:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Considering the fact that we "have to" train for Destroyers and Battlecruisers V to avoid having to train four times these racial skills later, the idea of another free remap would be more than acceptable :)
This has been known many times longer than it would take to train each to V with the worst attributes. It's your own fault if you haven't trained them yet. Or bad luck if you just joined the game.
|

Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1152
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 18:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tiberius StarGazer wrote: While from a hardcore eve lifer the whole "Once you have chosen your path you must walk it forever otherwise get an alt because any other method is not efficient." is, IMHO, pretty narrow minded. New players gaming experience is in a lot of flux, one week you might be mining, the next in a WH corp, so it's quite right that 3 re-maps are offered because I doubt any new player really knows what they are doing, I know I didn't, and I don't see why anyone else should expect them too either..
But knowing that after I had used them up I would not have one for an entire 12 months certainly made me think harder about what I was doing...and really learn about the game details. And it's 12 months, not 'forever'. Not really quite sure of the point making attmpt here. When I had Charisma 'on full-blast' it did not stop me from training the odd 'wrong attribute' skill for a short while.
Tiberius StarGazer wrote: Simple reason, which many seem to forget, is that not everyone can dual box, have multi clients, afford to Pay or invest the time to generate 600m ISK a week to pay for both alts. Or, as with me, I like my one toon, and I don't want to change him, I've invested time.. a lot of time, (and I realise we all invest time) into this toon and I really cannot fathom investing anymore time into a new charecter. I work 50 hours a week and I just can't do it..
That would be 1.2 Billion a month, not 600 M every week. We have all had to manage this issue for the entire past decade. It seems to me that you want some sort of special treatment. Due to RL nonsense I have had to cut down my own toons temporarily for awhile. IT's no big deal, and we all find a path throught it. I do not want this game delivered on a silver platter, nor do most players. Are you really happy playing ? (doesn't sound like it).
Tiberius StarGazer wrote: Keep as is, but then must adhere to a regular release schedule. It is unfair to include a game mechanic that people come to expect and not stick to it unless they are replacing it with another system with no notification. My toon for example is mapped for industry, but in the last week I have taken up residence in a WH this has vastly changed my skill plan for the next year, Im having to consider different haulage methods using cloakey transports, different defensive worries, and generally all the good things that come with WH life that I'm learning to deal with. So the prospect of not having that re-map suddenly becomes a big worry, particularly as having the wrong one can add days, even weeks to a year skill plan..
Listen to what you said. DAYS. This game takes YEARS to learn and play. This current system is not stopping that.
Tiberius StarGazer wrote: Second get rid of attributes all together. Which I also am not adverse to, mainly because it will get rid of this argument that keeps cropping up all the time, but also will level the playing field for everyone. But will remove players ability to specialise their toons to train for certain things faster, but at least then if you want to swap and change you can and surely that's a good thing. .
And throw out one of the basic foundations of RPG games for the past 38 years.
Tiberius StarGazer wrote: 3rd and final, Eve needs ISK sinks? Why not make a neural remap a purchasable voucher that's spawned by NPC stations with medical centres? It would defiantly fit in nicely in the eve universe as a service for your clone. But no, I'm not even considering doing it via AUR, it's a totally superficial game currency for dressing up your virtual barbie. Since ISK can buy PLEX and PLEX can buy AUR I just feel AUR is over complicating what should be a single currency market IMO. Either way, the importance of re-mapping is kept, because you have to spend ISK on it, and therefor you can give the people the choice of wasting ISK or not when you could continue on your path..
You don't seem to understand that even if it cost 10 currently priced PLEX to do this there are players whodcould buy one every single week. It would most indeed be unbalanced.
Sorry to be harsh, but you want EASY.
I do not.
RIP Vile Rat-á "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." - Oscar Wilde |

Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
True Megathreads are asking the OP to remove such an overblown title from this thread. Just saying.
|

Krixtal Icefluxor
The Scope Gallente Federation
1157
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:True Megathreads are asking the OP to remove such an overblown title from this thread. Just saying.
Dude....your non-face..... RIP Vile Rat-á "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." - Oscar Wilde |

CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
66
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wish I could sell mine. don't see a point in using them. I perfer balancing my attributes so I can train what need to be trained when I want to without handiCaPPing myself. |

Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
309
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:So, the most recent dev blog talked about Christmas and the celebrations that would be taking place.
Notably absent were neural remaps. We will not be receiving a bonus remap this year.
I've heard people saying this is a good thing (CCP shouldn't give out stuff that has a tangible in-game benefit) and that this is a welcome trend from CCP giving out items that are more than cosmetic.
On the flip side, I've heard people a little bit sad/angry they won't get another remap and will be stuck in their current remap longer than planned.
So, I ask, how does this make you feel? Should remaps be brought back? Should presents always be cosmetic? Should remaps be added to the Aurum store? Discuss!
OP, I couldn't care less. Really, not a single whit more of "less caring" can be had here. CCP already gives one free remap every year, and (except for noobs) if you planned your training schedule and implant insertion correctly there reallly shouldn't be an issue. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |

Zack Korth
The Deneveh Collective High Rollers
48
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 20:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
we're supposed to get bonus re-maps! weather i suck or not, is irrelevant, i want that re-map! |

Tiberius StarGazer
The Destined
260
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 00:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:But knowing that after I had used them up I would not have one for an entire 12 months certainly made me think harder about what I was doing...and really learn about the game details. And it's 12 months, not 'forever'. Not really quite sure of the point making attmpt here. When I had Charisma 'on full-blast' it did not stop me from training the odd 'wrong attribute' skill for a short while.
I'm definitely not disagreeing with you on this point, hence why I think 3 first year is good, and one for every year is also ok, but some people are saying nerf the 3 free ones and my point was, I feel this is not the right way to go.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:That would be 1.2 Billion a month, not 600 M every week. We have all had to manage this issue for the entire past decade. It seems to me that you want some sort of special treatment. Due to RL nonsense I have had to cut down my own toons temporarily for awhile. IT's no big deal, and we all find a path throught it. I do not want this game delivered on a silver platter, nor do most players. Are you really happy playing ? (doesn't sound like it).
Yeah my bad like I said, was doing this on a train and didn't have time to properly proof read.
I'm not suggesting "special" treatment, but maybe you need to understand that people who put that sort of time into a game are "special". I would bet 80% of players, who seriously want to develop their toon properly will only have one and do not have the time or the money to invest into and pay for multiple accounts. Or maybe they just don't want one. Indeed, as part of an RPG experience, people may be attached to their one character. I know I am. By implementing a system that means you restrict the ability of that person to train at a reasonable speed or change direction of a character in a game as vast as eve is somewhat naive. People get bored of doing the same thing over and over. Give them the ability to change, or at least the option, to develop and evolve in different direction and be able to develop said skills, will mean they can retain interest, keeping player numbers up. Putting player development on rails will mean people are more likely to switch off.
As for your opprobrious final sentence, if I didn't enjoy the game why would have I played (and paid!) for the last 6 months? Or even take time out to read the forum and reply?
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Listen to what you said. DAYS. This game takes YEARS to learn and play. This current system is not stopping that.
Re read it again, I said DAYS or WEEKS off a YEAR skill plan. Again, if the mechanic is there for that purpose, and clearly a few days training time means nothing to you (believe me, the older you get, the more important they become) then you essentially agree to my second point.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:And throw out one of the basic foundations of RPG games for the past 38 years.
Just because its been part of RPG games, doesn't mean it's a mandatory mechanic. Nothing ever improves by keeping things the same.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: You don't seem to understand that even if it cost 10 currently priced PLEX to do this there are players whodcould buy one every single week. It would most indeed be unbalanced.
And what impact does that have on other players? Quite clearly the benefit of the system is in long term impact on training. I get that. If players want to sink billions of ISK buying a remap to shave off a few hours training time, so be it. The simple fact is, the more often you re-map, the less of an advantage it gives you. Your argument that it somehow gives you an unfair advantage I feel is somewhat flawed. |

Tiberius StarGazer
The Destined
260
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 00:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
Shaalira D'arc wrote:Remap items should be a player-based industry that uses, as its material cost, biomatter and implant components harvested from player corpses.
To prevent mass alt-podding (at least, without cost), such harvested materials should be restricted to clones above a certain grade and those carrying implants. The more expensive the pod, the higher the quantity and quality of materials that can be harvested from the corpse.
I would like to add this option to number 4 in my list, very creative. |

Torak Dakos
The Restless Masquerade Hedonistic Imperative
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 01:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
older players have little use for remaps because we have trained all the Essential already and are at the long skills where we can easily make a 1 year plan for a specific mapping, personally i currently have 3 remaps.
on the other hand newer players need to train skill in many different categories.
because of this i think an extra remap would be the best choice because it helps newer players, lets be fair, we need them.
also it's really sad to see the community filled with self important jerks just laughing at newer players mistakes and almost wanting to rob them of a little convenience. |
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