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Passive shield tank works well with invulnerability fields

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Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:19:00 - [1] I donÆt know why I didnÆt think of this before. I found out while testing the new shield extenders that invulnerability fields work perfectly with passive shield tanks at lest the tanks based on PDS modules not shield relays. Without the massive cap drain from a shield booster there isnÆt much to spend the cap on and it seems a shame to waste cap. More testing is needed but so far 2 invulnerability field module leave my cap steady at 45% and I still need to get the right balance of PDS and shield relay modules. But so far on the test server with 2 fields I get (all the below settings are with a Dominix battleship) EM 38.35% Explosive 75.34% Kinetic 63.01% Thermal 50.68% 18098 shield hitpoints and 44.3 regen. cap holds EM 48% Explosive 79% Kinetic 68% Thermal 58% 14220 shield hitpoints and 34.8 regencap cap holds EM 47 (passive module didnÆt have a active on me so should be a little higher) Explosive 70% Kinetic 55% Thermal 64% 12284 shield hitpoints and 45 regen. cap died after 5 mins . I need to test on the main server with my higher cap skill. I think I can get this one working without running out of cap. For comparison my old setup is with passive hardeners T2. EM 38 % Explosive 60% Kinetic 40% Thermal 50% 12862 shield hitpoints and 80.79 regen. The question is are the extra shield resistanceÆs and extra shield hitpoints worth the loss in shield regen. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Sadist	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:25:00 - [2] So what good is actual passive tank setup? Find a noob in a corp and tell him: shoot the hell out of me, and then make fun of him since he cant break your passive tank? _______________________________________________
Rodney Munch	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:27:00 - [3] .. and the point of this is?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Wanna fly with me?
Rodney Munch	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Try passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do.
Peri Stark	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:43:00 - [6] I think a passive tank is great. I have less then 2mil SP, no lvl5 skills and no t2 mods. In my Ferox with a passive shield tank i can run a 4/10 Gurista complex without stopping until its done. This may not be a big deal to some players but it is to me. ================================================ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:50:00 - [7] That is because the Gurista 4/10 is easier than a lvl 2 mission. Try the angel 2/10, drone 3/10 or Serpentis 4/10 and see how good passive shield tanking is. Regardless of the numbers on the shield tank, your damage will be gimped, you cap will be gimped, you can't tackle, you can't do EW and you can't escape when you have to. So what can you do? Sit in combat and watch the pretty Apocs and Tempests shred you just as quick as they shred the active tank with the XL c5? ------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?"
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:54:00 - [8] ôSo what good is actual passive tank setup?ö It has its good and bad sides. Its something different to try, defence is on 24/7 perfect for lazy people or the forgetful type due to never having to turn modules on and off. If you run out of cap your defence stays on max or near max so no worried about Nos killing you cap. Passive tanks also tend to have loads of hitpoints anywhere from 12 to 25k so even if the regen fails to keep up with damage you still have a decent amout of time to warp out or stay in fight. Down sides are some modules are still only T1 versions, some methods of passive tanking give a bad cap recharge, some ships cannot be passive tanked. ôTry passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do.ö I am doing pretty well the the PvP tournaments I have entered. So far the rules have been no T2 cruisers and the biggest ship permitted are cruisers so mostly Cruiser V Cruiser battles or sometimes elite frigate V Cruiser. With 60 hp/s regen and shield hardeners my passive tank stands up to the regen of the active tanks only I donÆt run out of cap and I found a lot of other cruisers donÆt have the firepower to take down my shields as they relay on you running out of cap and your booster failing over time. Cap draining based ships have also failed to kill me. Sniper ships with Iron ammo also fail I can just sit there all match watching them pound me and never dinting my shields. The biggest treats are the high skill players with T2 weapons and full damage mods layouts. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
xenorx	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Rodney Munch Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Try passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do. While I agree with you Rodney that a passive tank is not a good idea for PvP action in most cases. It is a great alternative for Mission runners and general NPC hunting. If they ever come out with the rest of the T2 mods that effect shield recharge then passive tanking might become a realistic alternitive in PvP.
Weirda	Posted - 2005.05.18 20:59:00 - [10] My God! What with the hostility on this thread?! The point is - that Pottsey is constantly finding uses for 'useless' modules. Not all the setups will have the 'omgwtfbbqwhatdiduhaveforbreakfast' PvP ability, but many people choose to play the game in their own way. And due to Pottsey's constant lack of hostility back to all of the hostile ppl, it seem like she having more FUN then most! (see: THE POINT)... Weirda LOVE PvP AND PvE - and Pottsey's ways don't suit Weirda's playstyle (at all really), but it doesn't threaten Weirda to have people doing 'their own thing' either (as long as they don't beat me... j/k) Anyhow - GG Pottsey... shame to hostiles... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.18 21:05:00 - [11] ôyour damage will be gimped, you cap will be gimped, you can't tackle, you can't do EW and you can't escape when you have to. So what can you do? Sit in combat and watch the pretty Apocs and Tempests shred you just as quick as they shred the active tank with the XL c5?ö Why are you weapons and cap gimped? The bonus to powergrid means you can fit good weapons and the bonus to total reactor cap and cap recharge is well a bonus not a penalty. As for EW get a friend to do it, passive tanks are better in groups anyway due to Escort Tactics. As for Apocs and Tempests shredding a passive tank quickly I would like to see a Tempest kill as ship with anything from 15 to 25k hitpoints and shield hardeners quickly. Even without regen that takes time. Though I do tend to agree passive tanks tend to be good for PvE and bad for solo PvP though it works for group PvP sometimes. All I am trying to do is come up with new play styles that are fun. DonÆt like my methods then improve on them or donÆt use them. As for me I am going have fun improving my setups as much as I can. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.05.18 21:08:00 - [12] I think you're forgetting one thing. In PvP, tanking is useless. Tanking is nice for 1v1s, but sadly, you dont get 1v1s without a challenge. IE, i know if i bring my Apoc alone into 0.0, ill die, so i make sure to bring 5 mates in battleships aswell. My enemies know the same thing, they make sure to bring 5 aswell. And guess what happens when 5 Tempests and Apocs shoot at you. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Artharas	Posted - 2005.05.18 21:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Artharas on 18/05/2005 21:14:44 First of all... PvP is not all 50vs50 where you are toasted whatever setup you have fitted when enemy commander decides you are next to die. It can accually be 1vs1. I have never really bothered with passive tanking but with 60 hp/s on a cruiser, that is imho pretty decent to run endlessly(depends on if there is resistance also). This is also an alternitive to the normal setups which all people seem to fit these days(gankageddons anyone?). This is prob also uber nice is PvE as atleast in numbers this tank seems to hold pretty nicely with on average like 410 hp/s(with decent all-around resistances). And ofcourse this must be just nice for the lazy people(like myself) :) PS. Wierda why do you talk about yourself in 3rd person? Edit: Though ofc you could have a prob with holding the enemy down unless you have a tackler with you... ------------------------- These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance.
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.05.18 21:43:00 - [14] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 18/05/2005 21:43:56 Originally by: Artharas PS. Wierda why do you talk about yourself in 3rd person? That's obvious Weirda is weird Edit: And as always nice going Pottsey __________ Capacitor research
sableye	Posted - 2005.05.18 23:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Rodney Munch Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Try passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do. in soem situations it would actually work I had a fight with a domi and a balckbird in my raven the domi nossed me to deatha dn started usingd rones to kill me a passive tank could have set there all day against that probably, or at least long enough for my fofs to kill all there drones.
Serret	Posted - 2005.05.19 00:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Pottsey I would like to see a Tempest kill as ship with anything from 15 to 25k hitpoints and shield hardeners quickly. Even without regen that takes time. You'd be shocked at how quickly one minute passes during hardcore PvP when you're receiving upwards of 400 damage per second despite your hardeners, and then your shields fail... However, it does seem to me that your earlier, fully-passive setups were better than a 'half-active' setup, if only because they fulfull the core concept behind a passive tank (no cap draw, immune to energy drainers, zero maintenance). As for resistance vs. recharge rate? Well, it clearly depends upon how much damage you're receiving. Originally by: Elve Sorrow In PvP, tanking is useless. Tanking is nice for 1v1s, but sadly, you dont get 1v1s without a challenge. You have much to learn, grasshopper...
Cosmic Dragon	Posted - 2005.05.19 00:19:00 - [17] I support passive tanking [tho i dont use it as its nto good enough for me] and i have good news for those pro passive tankers like me ccp plan to upgrade passive modules and add rthe tech2 equivelents to make them a worthwhile alternative in pvp apparently no idea when tho maybee later this year i hope.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.05.19 00:36:00 - [18] I do like the idea of passive tanking but this isn't really passive tanking. The invulnerability fields use up so much capacitor that you would be better served pushing that capacitor into an active setup. Unless you can show otherwise, that the passive setup with invulnerability fields repairs better than an active setup with the same cap usage, I don't see much use in this.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.05.19 01:12:00 - [19] Edited by: Tobiaz on 19/05/2005 01:17:13 Originally by: Elve Sorrow I think you're forgetting one thing. In PvP, tanking is useless. Tanking is nice for 1v1s, but sadly, you dont get 1v1s without a challenge. IE, i know if i bring my Apoc alone into 0.0, ill die, so i make sure to bring 5 mates in battleships aswell. My enemies know the same thing, they make sure to bring 5 aswell. And guess what happens when 5 Tempests and Apocs shoot at you. I doubt you that outcome would change much if you'd use an active tank against them instead. I figure a passive tank will mean you have plenty of cap to burn for things like MWDs and the fact your tank isn't vulnerable to NOS is quite a powerful move. Afterall, aren't most HACs and Ass frigs using passive hardeners? Also while 1vs1 might be rare, there is fighting in empire as well, where it often quite different from 0.0 battles. A passive tank might be quite a well fit there.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.19 01:27:00 - [20] Passive Tanking an FI Tempest is fun. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Glarion Garnier	Posted - 2005.05.19 07:10:00 - [21] Pottsey This make's me think a Passive tanked Domi with One shield Hardener might be good at Angel BS Hunting .. should I go for powerdiag 2's or totally passive modules .. I Respect your ability to think wide.
Na'Axin	Posted - 2005.05.19 07:19:00 - [22] IMO the use of invulnerability fields is quite contradicting the use of a passive tank... I mean, isn't the point of a passive tank that you can work with low cap (meaning, while being nos'ed)? (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
VortiK	Posted - 2005.05.19 07:19:00 - [23] Personnaly, I find Pottsey' posts very interesting. What is a life, devoid of strife ? Glorious Furture
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.05.19 07:43:00 - [24] I enjoy any math that I find difficult to understand But following Pottsey's advice on shield tanking, meant I had an uber-tanked Ferox for a while. ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.05.19 08:02:00 - [25] nah, but Pottsey, what could I do for tanking in a Tempest without using more then 3 midslots? I need all of my lowslots for damage mods and an RCU my other midslots are taken for sensor booster and tracking CPU at I run XL Clarity Shieldbooster and maximal and EW hardener, and just make the enemy die with my 5000 Damage volleys Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2005.05.19 08:03:00 - [26] Originally by: sableye Originally by: Rodney Munch Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Try passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do. in soem situations it would actually work I had a fight with a domi and a balckbird in my raven the domi nossed me to deatha dn started usingd rones to kill me a passive tank could have set there all day against that probably, or at least long enough for my fofs to kill all there drones. yeah, but still an real setuped BS would have pwned your ass, especially a gankageddon with tech2 pulse lasers without high resistances your doomed Wanna fly with me?
xenorx	Posted - 2005.05.19 15:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: sableye Originally by: Rodney Munch Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Rodney Munch .. and the point of this is? If I can passive tank my Tempest with only using 3 midslots Im in Try passive tanking in pvp and see how well you do. in soem situations it would actually work I had a fight with a domi and a balckbird in my raven the domi nossed me to deatha dn started usingd rones to kill me a passive tank could have set there all day against that probably, or at least long enough for my fofs to kill all there drones. yeah, but still an real setuped BS would have pwned your ass, especially a gankageddon with tech2 pulse lasers without high resistances your doomed This is true. However, it would also toast just about everything else passive or active. It just would not matter. Personally, I cant wait for CCP to finally release the rest of the T2 mods for passive tanking. I have a set up worked out for my Cerberus that will recharge more shields per second than a Large T2 SB with an amp. Unfortunatly it is just a paper fitting atm because we are still waiting for all the mods to come out.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.19 18:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Pottsey on 19/05/2005 18:06:59 ôI mean, isn't the point of a passive tank that you can work with low cap (meaning, while being nos'ed)?ö ThatÆs one of the reasonÆs to passive tank but most passive tanks are doing PvE so you donÆt have to worry about being NosÆed. In PvE you may as well use the cap up with active modules. ônah, but Pottsey, what could I do for tanking in a Tempest without using more then 3 midslots?ö Not a lot really, large shield extenders but in that case an active tank might be better. I take it you end up killing your opponents fast? With the new shield extenders on the test server 3 mid slots mean 7200 hitpoints extra. It takes an extra large T2 shield booster 1 minuet to heal 7200 hitpoints. So if someone deals 7000 hitpoints in under a minuet or you run out of cap in under a minute then the active tank dies while the passive tank lives due to the shear amount of hitpoints not even counting regen. ôshould I go for powerdiag 2's or totally passive modules ..ö For short high damage battles go for powerdiag 2's as you relay on hitpoints volume over regen. For longer dawn out battles go for as many shield relays as you can with 2 or 3 powerdiag 2's so you donÆt run out of cap. A mix of modules gives more regen but less total hitpoints. ôyeah, but still an real setuped BS would have pwned your ass, especially a gankageddon with tech2 pulse lasersö Perhaps not if you have enough hitpoints regen shouldnt matter. Say two ships are doing 1000 DPS one is an active tank with 4.5k shields and a 150 hp/s from the booster. The other is a passive tank with 18k or even 25k shields. Then after 10 seconds both ships had taken 10,000 hitpoints killing the active tank and leaving the passive alive. So although the passive take regen is rubbish at 40 ish the match is over before those 18k shields die. Based on the test server its more like 12 to 18k on the live server. I am not a big PvP so if my theory is wrong please show me how. I never tested the above out but it seems to me a passive tank can live longer then an active tank against gank setups with high damage mods and the passive tank can take the same damage mods. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.19 18:13:00 - [29] I think the true test of a passive regen tank would be tanking two sentries solo for an hour. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.05.19 19:16:00 - [30] I might try that. What damage type do they do and what DPS roughly? Are the empire guns the same as deep space? Which sector do you want me to test in if empire is not the same as deep space? _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.

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