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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
505
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 17:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Harland White wrote:What needs fixing? The over-abundance of industry facilities. The logistical ease. The (minute to non-existent) cost of living. The ISK injection GÇö both in terms of amount and ease of use GÇö in relation to those costs.
Throwing out the logistical ease item and industry, sorry but different issue if one at all. Even if you did cut them in half people from null would still produce in high-sec because that is where the most stable market is. Nobody goes shopping in war zone unless they don't have a choice.
Once again we are talking actual ISK faucet. So the question is does High-sec ISk faucets excede those of null when compared to the sinks.
And as high-sec does not have any alliances you have to base it on per character which makes things , well rather nasty. And the best ISK faucet in High-sec is once again Level 4 missions. And we are really only talking about one particular mission style as well the fighting missions.
Oh look we are back to that old arguement. So where is the data that shows what percentage of characters are upsetting the balance ? EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
505
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 17:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Simetraz wrote:Tippia wrote:Harland White wrote:What needs fixing? The over-abundance of industry facilities. The logistical ease. The (minute to non-existent) cost of living. The ISK injection GÇö both in terms of amount and ease of use GÇö in relation to those costs. Throwing out the logistical ease item and industry, sorry but different issue if one at all. Even if you did cut them in half people from null would still produce in high-sec because that is where the most stable market is. Nobody goes shopping in war zone unless they don't have a choice. Once again we are talking actual ISK faucet. So the question is does High-sec ISk faucets excede those of null when compared to the sinks. And as high-sec does not have any alliances you have to base it on per character which makes things , well rather nasty. And the best ISK faucet in High-sec is once again Level 4 missions. And we are really only talking about one particular mission style as well the fighting missions. Oh look we are back to that old arguement. So where is the data that shows what percentage of characters are upsetting the balance ? That's discounting everyone that doesn't actively participate in any ISK faucets. Like industry. Why is high sec mining the most profitable way to mine? Why are the lowest grade ores rated as the most profitable ore to mine? I should not go to a mining calculator to find the best isk per hour ore to mine, and have it tell me a low end ore in high sec; yet they do. Why?
Actually you know how to build super caps ? let me enlighten you. Mine high ends in null. (any miners worth there salt will be mining in a SOV belt , the large to be exact and flipping that belt all day long) Sell it off in high-sec and purchase Trit , pyerite and mex from high-sec sec cause it is difficult to get in any large quantity and it isn't worth the time to do it. There is a lot more profit in just selling high end ores. And let face it you mine the belts and you have more then you need anyways
And guess what mining is not a ISK faucet it is only shifting existing ISK around. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I see a lot of people talking but nobody still is stating where the problem is.
Everyone is saying High-sec is making stupid ISK. And it needs to be balanced.
So my question is what part of High-sec activity is making all this ISK ?
High-sec Mining ? Mission Running ? T1 Ship Market ? High-sec Incursions ? Market Trading ?
I think that is the only items that originate in High-sec.
There may be more but if there is a problem then you better narrow it down rather then grand changes that impact everyone and which don't really fix the problem (whatever it is)
IF the main complaint is about moon minerals or T2 or T3 ships / items then they don't orginate in high-sec and the ISK generated by them does not really stay in high-sec. IE a null sec player who produces in High-sec does not mean that high-sec players get all the ISK. It simply means that Null performed the transaction in high-sec but the ISK is still Nulls posession.
And in the end of the day any nerf once again is trying to force player to do something. ei - produce in low-sec or null IF you want to honest about it why don't you just prevent T2 production from being done in high-sec stations just like they do capitals. Drastic yes, but in the end a lot better then say raising production rates and destroying the T1 market which is already has a very low profit margin.
And if people complain it can't be done in null or low-sec cause they don't have the production slots, well then isn't that a problem that should be adjusted ?
Fixing a problem doesn't always involve a nerf, sometimes you give fix issues by simply giving people more options.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mining is not a Issue and it has never taken grand fleets to make lots of ISK in null, you don't need super ores as they are already in the game.
THey are the sov belts that are already in the game. The only things Null needs from high-sec is Trit and Pyerite and maybe some mex from time to time. Everything else is gotten simply by mining the large belt.
If anything you end up with alot more then you need which in turn you sell to high-sec for the trit and pyerite and still make a profit. Any null bear who hasn't figured this out to be honest is a failure when it comes to null sec mining.
Perhaps the failure is in what a lot of null sec alliances do. THey bring only PvP player out and use there alts to do production and mining. I guess it is no surprise they fail at the end of the day as they really don't understand what is needed as they are not qualified for the job. You wouldn't ask a miner to be a FC I don't see why people expect a FC to make a good miner, They are not the same.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Ok the easy answer is No hi-sec is not making "stupid ISK", the problem is that it is making comparable isk in relation to sections of space more dangerous than its self. So leaving no incentive to go to areas more dangerous.
Also the NPC facilities are too good meaning that people only ever have POSs in hi-sec to cut out the time in research and only research as everything else is better done at an NPC facility.
So the aim is to come up with a fair method to make people want to own thier own facilities and leave the NPC facilities to people just starting out as well as giving industrialists and subsequently others a greater reason to move to areas of the game that are more dangerous in pursuit or better rewards.
This does not require forcing people to go to more dangerous areas but giving them a reason to do so if they chose, same as NPC facilities at the moment they are so cheap that player owned structures really can not compete, so these need to be altered to make player owned structures a rewarding experience rather than just a slightly faster research at 30 times the cost.
See there is the problem. You have no way of knowing how many of those high-sec players are really alts of null-sec players. I can go to null make lots of ISK to front a high-sec operation. In fact I can even undercut other player knowing I have a secondary source of income. How are you going to force out those players ? Any tax with work across the board, it it will get rather complicated to implament if you want to target specific player who are doing the same thing as the masses just with better backing.
And by stopping a certain player group you are essentially forcing them to do something else ? Call it what it is the player base refuses to change and people consider it a problem so you want to change the way they play there game so you have to force them to do something.
People produce in high-sec cause that is where people sell there items. It is nautral ground for the null sec alliances. It also keeps BPO's safe as players spent time and ISK to aquire and research them.
And let be honest it is very easy for a player to get goods from high-sec to null and back again. In order to change things so null produces and sells in null. 1 - give null the production lines to implement it (improve null station) 2 - give null the market to sell items (this is practically impossible given human nature) 3 - remove easy access of goods from null to high-sec and the reverse.
Number one is easily fixed. Number two the the lynch pin that makes everything fall apart (no real way to do this) Number three is well a nasty thing and you boards are filled with people trying to fix it to no avail.
In some respects 3 could be fixed by making null a lot farther out then it already is. A change in the geography of EVE could help. What I am talking about is either increasing low-sec systems and or increasing the distance capital jump wise between high-sec and null. If you have to jump 3 times with a capital just to get to a low-sec system on the border of high-sec, producing in null would look more attractive.
See where I am going, try not to nerf but change dynamics of the situation without having to once again tweak the mechanics
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Simetraz wrote: THey are the sov belts that are already in the game. The only things Null needs from high-sec is Trit and Pyerite and maybe some mex from time to time. Everything else is gotten simply by mining the large belt.
The large belt yields enough megacyte for 114 Maelstrom, enough zydrine for 48, but only enough nocx for 7, enough isogen for four, enough mex for one. You'd have to mine four large belts in full to get all the pyerite you need, and six in full to get all the trit. So no, not really.
And you failed to read again. I already stated you have to purchase pyrite and triut from high-sec, but you get enough high-ends to make that an easy prospect as you end up with more then you need.
And I always want CCP to change the small belts SPOD rock into Scordite which would solve the trit and pyrite issue as well. They never did it though sadly.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Simetraz wrote:I see a lot of people talking but nobody still is stating where the problem is.
Everyone is saying High-sec is making stupid ISK. And it needs to be balanced.
I've only said it god knows how many times. You can be as good an industrialist as anyone else, sometimes better, by not leaving the NPC corp. Nothing you buff in null will make null better than the NPC corps. The balance in null isn't out of wack. The isk you make, for the risk and effort is wortwhile. NPC corp players can make just as much never leaving the NPC corp or high sec; that is the problem. The real simple version of this is. Null is on a wage of 10 ISK/ hour. High sec corps are 10 ISK/ hour. NPC corps are 10 ISK/ hour. Two of those groups are assuming some amount of risk and effort, one is not; yet you can do just as well there. The NPC corps are overpowered.
How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with. Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec. OH wait they already are. FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations. THe ability to make capital ships. Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 21:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Mineral supply in nullsec right now is a chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody is going to import minerals unless they have a guaranteed buyer, and no one is building anything because there are no minerals on the market. Small-time industrialists are not interested in adding more tasks for themselves, or have the free isk/characters in order to build stuff, and high-scale industrialists who already have the supply line running don't want to bother supplying relatively few minerals for smalltimers because it isn't worth their time.
The easy solution is to make mining low-ends viable to mine in nullsec, by increasing their isk/hour rate so that people strip sites clean instead of cherry picking the good stuff then moving to the next system. Mining helps to provide minerals for small scale manufacturers, miners in nullsec cannot (and should not be able to) provide enough minerals to sustain supercapital building operations or massive fleet doctrine creation schemes. That's what highsec is for.
Cherry picking is once again a internal problem. If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.
And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false. And I know this because I used to build them. We rotated the large belt all day long and had more then enough high-ends to sell the extra to high-sec and bring up the trit and pyrite we needed, plus have extra ISK left over. And if CCP had changed the small belts SPOD into a Trit we could have gotten a few more miners out there and boom we would have been completely independent of high-sec. FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT CCP change that SPOD in the small belt into scordite PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE 
In fact I have one of my own creations sitting around somewhere. You get the right people together and you can do anything. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 21:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Simetraz wrote:
How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with. Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec. OH wait they already are. FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations. THe ability to make capital ships. Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.
So you think that being in a corporation that can't be war decced, and working out of a station that can't be flipped or destroyed is irrelevant? And pardon me guy, READ. I"me the null guy that keeps saying that he builds for free. I"m the null guy that's on your side. I want your high sec corp to actually get rewarded for being war deccable, and working out of structures you work to defend. Or do you enjoy being trivial in the grand scheme of things? You think my high sec alt is buying your ****? You think my high sec alt is selling your ****? You think my high sec alt is doing anything other than exploiting the NPC corps so that I can do things faster and easier to benefit me in null, without interacting with other high sec industrialists? NO. You shouldn't be allowed to exploit the safety of the NPC corps any more than I should. It needs to be nerfed. LVL 1 missions don't pay the same as LVL 4. You seem to have a funny idea of balance, because "the same" isn't balance. It means the guys not assuming any risk or effort are overpowered; it needs to stop.
Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ? Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.
How many members of you own corp that have high-sec NPC alts that are producing in all day long with ISK that was generated from null. Personally I can thing of very few that don't have NPC alts for high-sec production. How do you nerf that ? And the real question is why should you want too ? Just as easy to create a corp that also never leaves station which some do and they are also completely ammune to high-sec war dec's. Or I have friends who just trade the markets all day. Now that is where the real ISK is, not in production but in resales. Once again completely immune. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 21:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Simetraz wrote:
Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ? Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.
It's ok to just write, "I have no responce." It's ok. Everyone else apparently had a hard time comming up with a logical arguement for people in NPC corps to be just as good industrialists as everyone else as well. Everyone else seems to want to argue over arbitrary things that will have no real impact on balance or peoples desires to move to null. ISK making isn't a problem, and things like factory slots are convenient and not a reason to come to null. The NPC corp industrialist is THE ROOT of the problem. Until their brought in line with the rest of the game, you won't be able to balance anything.
I guess you missed the editting bit I at the end I know it was incomplete and was working on revising it. reread my post again please. I will say one thing if there was a fix that wouldn't completely break everything then I would support it. But right now I am not sure there is one. Well not a quick fix at any rate.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 21:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Simetraz wrote:Cherry picking is once again a internal problem. If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. Simetraz wrote: And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false. And I know this because I used to build them.
Thanks for your anecdote, but in reality nobody does this. Just because you can run your people like slaves doing something mind-numbingly terrible and in the least efficient way possible doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. It's not good game design.
Slaves not even close. Everyone made a profit, the creators of the system (not me) did a good job. It just took actual miners (funny enough most were drafted from high-sec) lost some too but that happens some just don't adapt. A lot can be done with proper logistics and management.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 21:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Simetraz wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Ok the easy answer is No hi-sec is not making "stupid ISK", the problem is that it is making comparable isk in relation to sections of space more dangerous than its self. So leaving no incentive to go to areas more dangerous.
Also the NPC facilities are too good meaning that people only ever have POSs in hi-sec to cut out the time in research and only research as everything else is better done at an NPC facility.
So the aim is to come up with a fair method to make people want to own thier own facilities and leave the NPC facilities to people just starting out as well as giving industrialists and subsequently others a greater reason to move to areas of the game that are more dangerous in pursuit or better rewards.
This does not require forcing people to go to more dangerous areas but giving them a reason to do so if they chose, same as NPC facilities at the moment they are so cheap that player owned structures really can not compete, so these need to be altered to make player owned structures a rewarding experience rather than just a slightly faster research at 30 times the cost.
See there is the problem. You have no way of knowing how many of those high-sec players are really alts of null-sec players. I can go to null make lots of ISK to front a high-sec operation. In fact I can even undercut other player knowing I have a secondary source of income. How are you going to force out those players ? Any tax with work across the board, it it will get rather complicated to implament if you want to target specific player who are doing the same thing as the masses just with better backing. And by stopping a certain player group you are essentially forcing them to do something else ? Call it what it is the player base refuses to change and people consider it a problem so you want to change the way they play there game so you have to force them to do something. People produce in high-sec cause that is where people sell there items. It is nautral ground for the null sec alliances. It also keeps BPO's safe as players spent time and ISK to aquire and research them. And let be honest it is very easy for a player to get goods from high-sec to null and back again. In order to change things so null produces and sells in null. 1 - give null the production lines to implement it (improve null station) 2 - give null the market to sell items (this is practically impossible given human nature) 3 - remove easy access of goods from null to high-sec and the reverse. Number one is easily fixed. Number two the the lynch pin that makes everything fall apart (no real way to do this) Number three is well a nasty thing and you boards are filled with people trying to fix it to no avail. In some respects 3 could be fixed by making null a lot farther out then it already is. A change in the geography of EVE could help. What I am talking about is either increasing low-sec systems and or increasing the distance capital jump wise between high-sec and null. If you have to jump 3 times with a capital just to get to a low-sec system on the border of high-sec, producing in null would look more attractive. See where I am going, try not to nerf but change dynamics of the situation without having to once again tweak the mechanics But if people are spending their time on Hi-sec alts they would with an increased industry within Null costing them selves money. 3 is more easily fixed originally I believed in nerfing jump drives till the current situation was quite nicely shown to me where I realized the easiest way to protect what will remain of the Hi-sec markets (as they will take a drop due to the loss Null as a customer) is to increase the amount of fuel consumed by jumping as it is currently way too cheap for a jump freighter in terms of m2, personally i think an 8 fold increase in fuel consumed should protect these markets sufficiently while enabling Null to become more self sufficient.
THought about fuel as well but decided against it as it would effect and alliances internal logistics. If anything I want to boost the logistic inside an alliances borders (increase the stations abilities) why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec. That is why I went for the lets change the distance between the systems at least for low-sec. it would create a isolation zone and to some extent it would decrease nulls ability to bring capitals easily into low-sec. Which has its own benefits. And in effect this would also increase fuel cost at the same time as you will need more jumps.
As it stand right now it is way too easy to get goods to high-sec.
Is still doesn't fix the market issue however. What null almost needs is a high-sec system with the ability to limit who enters the station.
To do that in the current mechanics would mean you would have to garrison the system. Not something any null-sec alliance would want to do.
So we are back to square one sadly.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 22:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Actually you nerf it quite easily by making it more attractive to be in Null earing money there. You make it more attractive to be in a player corp in hi-sec by nerfing NPC station capabilities.
You make more dangerous space a better place to be and you make player owned structures cheaper to research in and give them better refine rates than NPC structures, so while NPC corps still have their immunity to war decs they do not benefit within industry.
Even if you nerf NPC stations abilites it will only spread out the market across several systems.
The problem is inherent to the populations. Guess work on populations
80 % high 15 % null 5 % other
That means even if highsec earn less ISK the buying power of high-sec is still more overall then null. So the best market will always end up in high-sec even though per player a high-sec'r has less ISK ,overall they will have more buying power. Granted it is more complicated then that but the market supports the theory
This is also the problem with nerfing tax wise. It will punish the majority while those who already have the ISK will take over the market. And most of that ISK will be coming from null.
It is very hard to nerf the rich while leaving the poor alone.
IT also won't mean anything to those who never leave station. Forcing people into a corp will not change anything. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 22:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: "why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec." That is easy if you take away the largest customer Hi-sec has and then you leave Null with the ability to move huge amounts of goods at a cheap rate there is no way at all anyone within hi-sec can compete with the goods coming in from Null as I worked out earlier in this thread with the current fuel costs and usage if the difference between hi-sec and Nulls ability to manufacture differ by more than 1% on the side of Null, then Hi-sec cannot compete.
I am all for giving more dangerous space the ability to be self sufficient as well as the ability to make good isk, I am not however on the side of the complete destruction of Hi-sec.
Changing the distance is much the same as nerfing jump drives, I my self thought like this but frankly while it does protect the hi-sec markets to a degree it does not really make life easier for smaller alliances and at the end of the day this is about hi-secs ability to compete while opening up new paths (well repaving the old ones) to allow industry to be more meaningful in dangerous space and giving people a bonus within industry to not just sit in a risk free NPC corp.
In essence if you increase jump fuel consumed it means that those living in Null can create competitively priced goods for local markets while not being able to flood the Hi-sec market easily with cheaper than hi-sec can produce goods.
Because High-sec doesn't NEED T2 items. T2 items are a luxury item for high-sec. T2 items are needed for null and null produces there T2 items in high-sec because it makes the most sense. That really is the heart of the problem. Any nerf you place on high-sec will hit null as well. The 2 economies are tied together. You can't nerf one without hitting the other.
See that is what is so interesting about the whole nerf high-sec. To some extent it will cut null's throat. You crash the high-sec economy and high-sec will continue as before just at a slower rate.
Null is not in that position they depend in the economy to sell items for pay for monthly expenses. SOV is not cheap. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 23:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Simetraz wrote:Frying Doom wrote: "why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec." That is easy if you take away the largest customer Hi-sec has and then you leave Null with the ability to move huge amounts of goods at a cheap rate there is no way at all anyone within hi-sec can compete with the goods coming in from Null as I worked out earlier in this thread with the current fuel costs and usage if the difference between hi-sec and Nulls ability to manufacture differ by more than 1% on the side of Null, then Hi-sec cannot compete.
I am all for giving more dangerous space the ability to be self sufficient as well as the ability to make good isk, I am not however on the side of the complete destruction of Hi-sec.
Changing the distance is much the same as nerfing jump drives, I my self thought like this but frankly while it does protect the hi-sec markets to a degree it does not really make life easier for smaller alliances and at the end of the day this is about hi-secs ability to compete while opening up new paths (well repaving the old ones) to allow industry to be more meaningful in dangerous space and giving people a bonus within industry to not just sit in a risk free NPC corp.
In essence if you increase jump fuel consumed it means that those living in Null can create competitively priced goods for local markets while not being able to flood the Hi-sec market easily with cheaper than hi-sec can produce goods.
Because High-sec doesn't NEED T2 items. T2 items are a luxury item for high-sec. T2 items are needed for null and null produces there T2 items in high-sec because it makes the most sense. That really is the heart of the problem. Any nerf you place on high-sec will hit null as well. The 2 economies are tied together. You can't nerf one without hitting the other. See that is what is so interesting about the whole nerf high-sec. To some extent it will cut null's throat. You crash the high-sec economy and high-sec will continue as before just at a slower rate. Null is not in that position they depend on the economy to sell items for pay for monthly expenses. SOV is not cheap. Although it would be an interesting way to reset null. Cause all the alliances would go bankrupt which means they would have to implode or leave null to just survive opening up regions for others or for those that say had a huge ISK reserve set aside. A little tinfoil for fun     I am not really sure what you are on about with T2, yes the price will be higher with higher shipping costs but persoanlly I would also like to see moon mining die in a bloody accident, it should be an active player activity causing bottom up funding, not top down. and available in all -0.0 space with more mineral supply than at perseent, so people who take the risk get the reward. It is not from my perspective about nerfing Hi-sec but nerfing NPC structures and boosting player structures as well as boosting dangerous space with more mineral availability
I have to presume you mean moon minerals ? Normal minerals are a endless supply in nullsec with SOV belts. (and no region is better then another) However unlikely you could actually mine out all the belts and high-sec and have to wait for them to spawn. In null this can't happen. The only thing null lacks in endless (was going to supply but no) in the right proportions is Trit and Pyerite.
As far as the T2 market well I mention it because it is one of the prefered ways Null alliances get ISK. And as moon minerals (or any minerals for that part)are not a faucet they require an economy to actually get something out of them.
Alliances could get by on a straight faucet like Ratting but that takes a lot more work on the members part. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
685
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 02:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
A long time ago in a EVE Galaxy blah blah blah. THe low end market was capped via shuttle sold from NPC's. The cap was removed by CCP and ever sense then the prices of Trit and pyerite have gone up.
Now the question is the reason behind the price rise a matter of supply not meeting demand or is it down to market maniputlation or a both.
Giving null the ability to mine vast amounts of trit and pyerite via a SOV belt would not really be a bad thing. First it would provide a checks and balances.
If the price got too high null-sec would stop buying low ends from high-sec. WHich would cause the prices in high-sec to drop eventually.
WOuld this stop null from selling there high-ends in high-sec. No as there is not a big enough market in null to support the current amount being mined and lets face it greed will play a part. And in this case that is a good thing.
I still say change that spod rock in the small sov belt to a scordite rocks and let the markets sort it out. And go from there.
But I have always been a firm believer that null should require nothing from high-sec players. Why, well until that happens CCP can never effectively create a deep null section of space. Something I would love to see. another section of null way outside what we see today. But for that to happen Null needs freedom from high-sec. ANd the farther out you get from high-sec the more likely the players will decide another hub besides Jita needs to be created.
There are some other items but out of scope of this discussion. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
686
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 02:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Ok while I believe trit and pyerite should be in as you call them Sov belts, I actually believe these minerals should be included in all normal belts.
I am not aware of the full mechanics of these sov belts, I am aware they are like grav sites in a WH but do they disappear after a few days if you do not mine them out?
They are in the normal belts in most places but like high-sec they are quickly drained, just like high-sec.
The SOV belt show up as a grav site. There are 5 different belts based on how much you mine in a system.
Once you deplete a belt you leave it and wait five minutes and another one identical to the one you just cleared will spawn again. (in a different location in the system) If I can find the link to it I will post it here. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 03:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Simetraz wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Ok while I believe trit and pyerite should be in as you call them Sov belts, I actually believe these minerals should be included in all normal belts.
I am not aware of the full mechanics of these sov belts, I am aware they are like grav sites in a WH but do they disappear after a few days if you do not mine them out?
They are in the normal belts in most places but like high-sec they are quickly drained, just like high-sec. The SOV belt show up as a grav site. There are 5 different belts based on how much you mine in a system. Once you deplete a belt you leave it and wait five minutes and another one identical to the one you just cleared will spawn again. (in a different location in the system) If I can find the link to it I will post it here. Seems like a bit of a never ending cycle, cant you just mine what you want out of one and then go next door (within sov space that question is, not just pop past that gate camp in unsecured space)
yes and no. here is the link Bloodtear Industy Index Report
You have to understand the size of these belts. A paste from the report "The small belt is dispersed just enough to make you move 3-4 times if youGÇÖre mining it out completely. The combined total wealth contained in the small belt is 1.341bil, at 8.01mil m3, and takes 42.4 man-hours to mine. If you mine the small belt to completion youGÇÖll be halfway through level 2"
You will understand a lot about what null is capable of by reading the PDF linked/
And for fun this is the best belt based on size and how the belts is made up.
"This belt has increased in size by 38.6%GÇô but ONLY because of massive increases in arkonor and bistot. The current size is 7.465mil m3, and takes 40.9 man-hours to complete. However, the average profit per miner is the highest of any belt, at 40.9mil/hr. This belt contains a whopping 60.1% ABCM by volume, which is the highest of any belt. The total belt is worth 1.95bil. It is easily the most profitable belt to mine to completion repeatedly." EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 03:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?
Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect. And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well. So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.
Like I said early most won't in preference to simple sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there. Up to a point.
And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do. Switch rock and watch what happens. IF it is too much they can always make another change.
Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
688
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 03:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Simetraz wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?
Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect. And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well. So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want. Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there. Up to a point. And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do. Switch rock and watch what happens. IF it is too much they can always make another change. Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon. One would hope that what the CSM has hinted to about its minutes will occur and talk is always helpful as it leads CCP to the ability to see what some of us think even if it is just the big mouthed ones. But as to scordite my now 4 month old chart shows scordite at 167.58 isk per m2 so the 4th highest rock as value at that time and as i said I believe in null efficiency not giving them the farm, I personally would be more comfortable with an increase in the value of spod by an increase of trit and pyerite within it, subsequently giving Null independence but not the farm. That is a good idea Malcanis . Edit: oh and CCP is starting to run out of time on making the game better for all as so many good games are coming out not so much MMOs but good games. Lets face it so many MMOs come out not I would be surprised if the post lenght here would let you type in those just released in 2012.
you can't look at the value of the roid but rather the mineral you get from the roid. Scordite only gives Trit and Pyerite exactly what Null needs. Spod give Trit pyerite and Megacite.
So I am giving null the Trit and Pyerite and taking away a source of megacyte Hardly the farm, overall this will actually decrease the value of the belt over time when the price of trit and pyrite falls. Which is the point, a checks and balances on those 2 minerals.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
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