If the only metric of "winning EvE" you have is how big your virtual bank balance is, you lost before the first time you logged in.

The point of EvE is to have fun playing EvE. That means different things to different people, from being a part of massive fleets of gigantic ships competing for control of nullsec to sitting in a quiet backwater listening to the hum of your mining lasers as they steadily fill your hold.

Isk is just how you gain access to the parts of the game that you enjoy.

Name some of these prominent content creators that create content for more than just themselves. As of right now I can only name James315. Make sure you distinguish between forum superstars and actual content creators.

I make content every time I update my market orders.

You should read MD some times, there's lots of stuff I do for everybody, and I am not just talking about my free ware apps.

*edit* I would argue that the economy affects more players than the conquest of a single region.

Its not chicken and egg, its cause/effect.

Plex speculation in Jita has a bigger impact on the average player than the conquest of Delve.

I think what your grasping at is that somehow nullsec "content creators" such as your own alliance are more vital towards the continuation of the game than players in other parts of the sandbox. That isn't true.

[quote=Varius Xeral]They are debasing what happens in other parts of the sandbox so they can justify nerfing hi-sec and buffing nullsec industry. When you are talking about industry, buying and selling and building are the most important things to talk about.

The risk reward argument falls flat because the reward in hi-sec industry is small, often items are put up below build cost. The intense competition keeps prices and profits low. The reward is in line with the risk. Buffing nullsec industry won't change low prices. Nerfing hi-sec severely would have negative consequences for the game such as inflation, as prices rise due to a lack of competition, and people quitting industry in hi-sec.

The only way to buff nullsec industry would be to raise prices, Jita is too efficient and keeps prices low. Nullsec industry does suck. But it will continue to suck even if manufacturing slots were increased. The only way to raise prices would be to nerf hi-sec severely and as I have stated previously, that comes with its own set of problems.

The risk in hi-sec is losing money on what you produce. This happens a lot. People produce at a loss. Its an economic risk, not a safety risk. Its market PvP.

Your proposals, if they went forward, would definitely raise prices and null would consider itself buffed and hi-sec nerfed. I doubt it would have any effect on average players other than making things more expensive, so you have to grind more to afford the same thing. If hi-sec can't compete people won't build there any more. The people in hi-sec would have no choice other than to move to null to continue their industrial activities or unsub their industrial characters.

Your proposals would also place industry firmly within the grasp of established nullsec alliances, shifting profits to them and away from hi-sec. I would view that as a negative thing. Nullsec is run by giant blue blobs and this would centralize even more power in their hands. In my view, nullsec is broken and this would make it even more broken. I would much rather have things the way they are than to change things as you have proposed.

I would also ask the larger philosophical question why is it necessary to shift industry to nullsec. The same things would be produced and in some cases it would even be the same alts producing the same stuff. The only thing that would be different would be the location. There is nothing stopping anyone from producing the same goods in hi-sec. What is the overriding concern that would make it necessary to shift locations for production, according to the economy it doesn't matter where it gets produced as long as it gets produced.. In my view its an irrational desire that necessitates the switching of location. It would only serve to make logistics harder and goods more expensive.

*edit* I don't buy the idea that making things more expensive doesn't matter.

Just because you assert something over and over doesn't make it true. Your grasping at something to do in nullsec? try pvp. Leave industry to the professionals.

And how exactly is nerfing highsec refine rates making nullsec "compelling"?

Its not an interesting choice at all. The people in null would make new alt armies to do industry and the hi-sec industrialists would be out of a job. I guess you don't want to wreck the game, just wreck my game.

The HBC and the CFC have enough power already. To give them more would only make a broken situation even worse. What is being proposed is bad for the game. I hope CCP doesn't listen to you.

You want to take away my toys.

Industry has been pretty much the same for a long time. Which toys exactly were taken from you.

I think my post was pretty clear.

It is in line.

Rewards in lowsec and NCP null are significantly greater for those with the ability and inclination to grab them, and the rewards for the leaders of the nullsec alliances (those who actually play and win the social game instead of tagging along for the ride) are greater than can be had in any other part of space by a huge margin.

Not broken at all, I sense somebody hasn't realized they aren't playing the game right yet if they aren't reaping the rewards their space offers.

The profits in empire aren't that great from industry. Many items sell at a loss at major hubs.

The profits in empire aren't that great from industry. Many items sell at a loss at major hubs.

No, I actually like low sec more than sov null, it's just not matching with the various GS posters desires.

1. No, a lobby is dependent on their ability to influence decisions. The largest alliance in EvE decided to push CCP's hands towards their objectives (regardless objectives even being the best in the world, it's still a push) including constant, never ending forum posting and 3rd party web sites.

2. I agree with what you (your bosses) ask at 75%. You demand no less than 100% else it's forum wars and whatever.
That talks more about your organization ways than about me.




3. I notice how in a first sentence they are put aside to gods and in the next they are randoms.

Anyway I don't want to doubt they know more about [XYZ] than me, this does not guarantee that their point of view is neutral or even catering to all the players best interest or even catering to CCP's best interest.

4. That's the bad thing about painting themselves as the vicious villains of EvE: that after enough years people (not me) start to believe your "ruin your game" etc. propaganda as real and react accordingly.

Had it been CVA or some other alliance to write up all those nerfs, they'd probably have a much easier way convincing the player base about the various points.

I am alone so I can't really be a "lobby".

Somebody needs to carry the banner for evil incarnate. May as well be Goons.

Most corps don't have the standings to launch a POS in empire, mine included.

Most corps don't have the standings to launch a POS in empire, mine included.

Hans demonstrating why this CSM has so far been the most effective in producing results and representing the player base.

Seems like a great big hassle to me. I would unsub my industrial character and let someone else do the grind. I make more money trading anyway.

That would be a radical change. I don't think it would make the game more fun to play.

If trit and pye were in null the prices would drop in hi-sec until it is more profitable to haul to null from hi-sec. The only thing you will accomplish is crashing the price.

Inflicting pain and suffering and making things as inconvenient as possible is not the hallmark of an improvement in the game. Thats a bad idea.

There is already a balance of trade in minerals. Making that go away takes away some of the interdependence between null and hi-sec.

Increased jump fuel usage is a nerf on hi-sec, not a buff. Its a barrier to trade.

A circle jerk consensus.

Its not horrible. Its actually faster and easier to source materials and produce stuff. Less travel time too.

Making things difficult, expensive and not very fun is the alternative that's been proposed.

Making things difficult, expensive and not very fun is the alternative that's been proposed.

The alternative is legions of POS everywhere. Not very fun.

No the point is that the CFC and HBC will have secure industry. Other people won't. Its not hate, its a self evident situation. Industry will gravitate towards the safe zones.

I didn't say hoarder, I said POS. Your people will form up to defend their stuff against anyone silly enough to attack it. Putting the shoe on the other foot, other people outside of the CFC and HBC get their baby titans killed just for fun. I doubt their industry will be as secure.

So, you support those who create game balance based on who cries louder on the forums? Got it.

And reasoned arguments have been made against it. I trust CCP won't do anything radical.

And reasoned arguments have been made against it. I trust CCP won't do anything radical.

1. there is already a balance between hi, low and null that would be upset.
2. there would be nothing to stop the HBC and CFC from rolling 15k new alts and supplanting hi-sec industry completely if these changes were made. That would leave even more power concentrated in their hands.

Those are some of my ideas.

I'm sorry, did you not understand what I said?
The CFC does not put up any of their space for rent. None of our corps would be looking for renters.