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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:08:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 24/05/2005 23:25:32
Edited by: Tobiaz on 24/05/2005 23:24:17
 Quote:
This made me think that the DEVs need someone who tells them what piracy is: piracy is playing EVE and making ISK with PVP. Nothing more, nothing less. Piracy is not ganking for fun or PVPing in alliances or blobbing a gate to empire - PIRACY IS MAKING ISK WITH PVP. Very important so i write this sentence twice and in capital letters.
One of the biggest problems with piracy is that there are simply too many PvPers out there that either claim to be pirates or claim to be an allaince and just kill everything, but they both don't give a **** about making money with it.
They are all making money the carebear way so they can use that money to blast as much people as they can collecting killmails and getting better killboard standings.
Many alliance corps and many mercenary corps are guilty of this, and they are just killing the fishing pond for the ones that try to make a living with it.
Solution? Making the penalties for killing other people even 0.0 so harsh that both mercs and allaince peeps won't do it because they both need access to their precious empire systems. The real pirates not caring about sec hits should have no problems with this.
There is still the possibilty to declare war for them, and alliances should be allowed to kill trespassers in the systems they claim (though claiming an entire region is ridiculous).
Permacamping chokepoints and tanking and sniping sentries has simply scared the fish away and this behaviour and pirates having the same income, no serious penalties but more skills ruling the game, forced CCP to take steps that harmed the ones that tried their hand at real piracy by making a living with it, not using agents or crok to buy for battleships but instead flying better affordable frigates and cruisers.
This is a structural problem though and not possible to be fixed without making some serious sacrifices and twisting quite a lot of senior player's arms.
As for complaining how pirating miners is below you: you are just a spoiled battleship pirate  .
Don't forget more miners in low sec means more activity attracting other activity.
Further, why is it that some pirates seem to think they deserve to fly battleships and top equipment, not having to flee for anybody and make money like water? How is that balanced in any way?
Warning! RL comparison:
Pirates IRL never had the biggest battleships, they had small fast ships, and whenever the navy came after them who had much bigger warships, they didn't stick and fight: they ran. And while many think of 'treasure ' when thinking of pirates, I bet the ordinary pirate was as poor as a beggar.
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Ifni
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 22:30:02
Quote:
Piracy is ridiculously easy
Sorry but i have to ask you: how many ships did you pirate??? I dont know your "pirate-corp" and dont know you. Maybe you are an uber-pirate - dont know.
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ifni
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 22:30:02
Quote:
Piracy is ridiculously easy
Sorry but i have to ask you: how many ships did you pirate??? I dont know your "pirate-corp" and dont know you. Maybe you are an uber-pirate - dont know.
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Lifewire is pretty much ignorant what and who he shoots 
Wanna fly with me?
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:13:00 -
[34]
Good post Lifewire and I think your idea for a proper ransom system is the best one I've heard in a long time. Lifewire for the win 
_________________
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Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:20:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 24/05/2005 23:23:50
If you make "strike-colors" ships to be destroyable all decent ppl, ok ok, all pirates will blow them up no matter how hard security hit is.
If you make "strike-colors" ships to be unshootable or spawn concord of some1 fires on them, then every1 will just strike their colors and laugh at ya all day.
I say, make a button, but call it "emergency jump".
Works as follows:
- You can press the button, and in 10 seconds you ship will instantly jump to some safespot random location even IF ITS SCRAMBED.
- But with such jumps you drop about 40%-70% of you total CARGO and about 30%-60% of your fitted mods UNDAMAGED for pirates to pick up.
Now you think, does it worth to save a ship and lose part of your stuff, or you prefer to stay and NEGOCIATE, or you just die with a pride.
PS
But who cares about me, LISTEN TO Lifewire.
PSPS
Remove sentiies from low sec, they are useless, snipers snipe, gankers gank, but carebears RELY on them and are totaly ****ED off then the space is "protected" by guns, but amazingly "not secure"
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:24:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Selim on 24/05/2005 23:26:04
Novel idea, but it needs to be combined with making gatecamping in empire viable if you are in a frigate or cruiser. Piracy doesnt really exist in eve, just ganks. Its dumb. Piracy should not be the slow battleship sort of thing, but thats the only way you can do it. Pirates use fast ships and are very mobile. But you cant do that in empire.
As well as somehow getting more people into 0.4.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:26:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Sorry but i am very bad in political issues. For me everything with more than 50 members is an political force...or better...an alliance and not a pirate corp. I did attack Viceroy and Digital Comumnist today - but i dont really care what aliance they are in. Target is target. What i saw is a gankteam - no offense - we also use gankteams. If you guys pirate you should understand what i mean: is it really fun to gank 10 vs 1? I guess our little attack outnumbered was much more challanging, was it???  That¦s what i mean when i say we need challanging piracy and not 0.4 barge-hunts.
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Ifni
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Sorry but i am very bad in political issues. For me everything with more than 50 members is an political force...or better...an alliance and not a pirate corp. I did attack Viceroy and Digital Comumnist today - but i dont really care what aliance they are in. Target is target. What i saw is a gankteam - no offense - we also use gankteams. If you guys pirate you should understand what i mean: is it really fun to gank 10 vs 1? I guess our little attack outnumbered was much more challanging, was it??? That¦s what i mean when i say we need challanging piracy and not 0.4 barge-hunts.
Oh I agree, we were fairly evenly matched, and the losses were about similar. But we have only 30 some members, and I feel a little rebuffed when you say you've never heard of us. I certainly have heard about TDG and your associated corps, simply because we operate in the same areas.
As for piracy, I concur that gankfleets are the in thing, and i concur with the reasons given. Why risk a 1bil isk ship getting away due to 8 stabs, when you can jsut gank them and split the loot 10 ways? It's ensuring an income which is similar to ensuring an income by having high standings and running missions.
I don't have the answers to the problem, and god knows I've spent time thinking about it. The slow hours sat waiting for that elusive fight leaves many a pirate thinking about the meaning of the "industry".
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:32:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 24/05/2005 23:38:14
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Sorry but i am very bad in political issues. For me everything with more than 50 members is an political force...or better...an alliance and not a pirate corp. I did attack Viceroy and Digital Comumnist today - but i dont really care what aliance they are in. Target is target. What i saw is a gankteam - no offense - we also use gankteams. If you guys pirate you should understand what i mean: is it really fun to gank 10 vs 1? I guess our little attack outnumbered was much more challanging, was it??? That¦s what i mean when i say we need challanging piracy and not 0.4 barge-hunts.
Well don't go after those barges in battleships or 10 player gangs. I bet it's challenging enough if you're taking on barges in inties and suddenly his guard shows up in a bc. Thing is most of you 'high-profile' pirates are too addicted to the power of your battleship.
IMHO pirates should have never started flying battleships in the first place, sadly now there is hardly anyway back without getting a huge flamewar by 'pirates' of which many have hundreds of millions in their wallet, but not because of piracy.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tobiaz
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Sorry but i am very bad in political issues. For me everything with more than 50 members is an political force...or better...an alliance and not a pirate corp. I did attack Viceroy and Digital Comumnist today - but i dont really care what aliance they are in. Target is target. What i saw is a gankteam - no offense - we also use gankteams. If you guys pirate you should understand what i mean: is it really fun to gank 10 vs 1? I guess our little attack outnumbered was much more challanging, was it??? That¦s what i mean when i say we need challanging piracy and not 0.4 barge-hunts.
Well don't go after those barges in battleships or 10 player gangs. I bet it's challenging enough if you're taking on barges in inties and suddenly his guard shows up in a bc
We did intie gangs last summer, was funny
Wanna fly with me?
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Tobiaz
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
Err Lifewire. Candy is Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated. AKA DNA. Don't tell me you've never heard of us, we're practically neighbours! We were shooting at each other just a few hours ago...
Sorry but i am very bad in political issues. For me everything with more than 50 members is an political force...or better...an alliance and not a pirate corp. I did attack Viceroy and Digital Comumnist today - but i dont really care what aliance they are in. Target is target. What i saw is a gankteam - no offense - we also use gankteams. If you guys pirate you should understand what i mean: is it really fun to gank 10 vs 1? I guess our little attack outnumbered was much more challanging, was it??? That¦s what i mean when i say we need challanging piracy and not 0.4 barge-hunts.
Well don't go after those barges in battleships or 10 player gangs. I bet it's challenging enough if you're taking on barges in inties and suddenly his guard shows up in a bc
We did intie gangs last summer, was funny
Indeed, ities are fun. But sadly they can't kill traffic at a <0.5 gate, and there isn't much to do elsewhere in low sec empire. So yes you can't blame pirates to prefer sniping and tanking over hit and run with frigates.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tobiaz
Warning! RL comparison:
Pirates IRL never had the biggest battleships, they had small fast ships, and whenever the navy came after them who had much bigger warships, they didn't stick and fight: they ran. And while many think of 'treasure ' when thinking of pirates, I bet the ordinary pirate was as poor as a beggar.
Well tbh I tried piracy that way once, a group of us with frigates went out hunting and did our bst to hunt even with fleets of hostiles after us.
We gave it up shortly afterwards simply becuase when we caught most battleships they logged out and we couldn't kill them before they vanished.
In the end the whole thing became so frustrating we gave up.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:44:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 23:55:02
Quote:
But we have only 30 some members,
If you really only have 30 members and no naps you have my respect and i wish you good luck. I really didnt know your pirate corp. BTW: you will need the luck - Syndicate is our farm, get your own farm running and your own cattles 
Quote:
Pirates IRL never had the biggest battleships
Try to gank a ship in a frigate at a gate in front of 2 sentry guns, will ya? In 0.0 you usually find us in fast frig teams doing hit&run attacks. If we grab our larger ships we don¦t pirate - thats the luxury we want: attack outnumbered and win as many of these battles as possible to improve our reputation as good pvp-players. I remember when m0o showed up in Syndicate some months ago and all natives were ****tting their trousers. We loved this visit - was a good way to get 3-4 nice battles and get high class PVP. We also want to offer fun to our enemys when we use BS...from a pure pirate view the usage of BS is much to expensive and uneffective (too slow ship and locktime - hunters need to be fast). When we do pure farming eneyms wont have any fun because we are invincible at this. We can run a camp or mobile hunt in 0.0 that is saver for us than empire - be sure. Frigs are unbeatable pirate tools and we know how to use them very effective.
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Slarty Bardfast
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lifewire
Quote:
But we have only 30 some members,
If you really only have 30 members and no naps you have my respect and i wish you good luck. I really didnt know your pirate corp. BTW: you will need the luck - Syndicate is our farm, get your own farm running and your own cattles
DNA has been around Syndicate for as long as I can remember. However, you guys have always prefered PF-346 and the northern parts, whereas we have generally stuck to the south.
Still, we meet every now and then as earlier
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 24/05/2005 23:53:04
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Tobiaz
Warning! RL comparison:
Pirates IRL never had the biggest battleships, they had small fast ships, and whenever the navy came after them who had much bigger warships, they didn't stick and fight: they ran. And while many think of 'treasure ' when thinking of pirates, I bet the ordinary pirate was as poor as a beggar.
Well tbh I tried piracy that way once, a group of us with frigates went out hunting and did our bst to hunt even with fleets of hostiles after us.
We gave it up shortly afterwards simply becuase when we caught most battleships they logged out and we couldn't kill them before they vanished.
In the end the whole thing became so frustrating we gave up.
Indeed, one of the many things totally wrong with this game. Scrambled ships shouldn't disappear and the log out timer should be more then it takes to scan for a ship.
There are many factors driving pirats into battleships and CCP needs to address them, also because many negatively effect other areas as well, instead of dazzling us with new ships or wild ideas.
Sadly 'bread and games' worked for the Roman plebs, and it works for our carebear population as well.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:56:00 -
[46]
I don't agree with anything being said by anyone including Lifewire. The reasons I don't agree on this. Is the main fact the original poster said "All we will loot is a bunch of miner II's". In my experience as a empire low security pirate. This will not always be true. People arn't just going to mine with crappy cruisers with no defense. Why risk a clone or lose isk for nothing? Every little mining op and so on. Always has people flying either crappy cruisers, barges and or haulers. They also have defense from other battleships, looking over the op. Now I don't know where most of you play but I play here in EVE-Tranquality. People don't just bow down and let you kill them if they're expecting company. So in other words. I feel this will bring more mining ops with battleships into low security.
Also on the subject. I really don't hope all low security ore gets super upped. I'm a solo pirate mostly. I control my areas and have my own POS. This is the only thing I have that I call home. I built it on blood and tears. It's really the only thing I can do solo without being a carebear or a tool to an alliance. If the systems I fly in get any more heavy with rich ore. More alliances will take over the space and force what solo players out of these regions or worse, conform us. I fear that change, and I hope it doesn't happen.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:57:00 -
[47]
Good discussion - might help the DEVs...n8
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2005.05.24 23:59:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 22:13:42
The original "Strike-colors-button"-idea was:
hit the button and your ship is inmobilized (no warp, no speed). Ending this mode needs 30 seconds. All ships loose the lock and missiles loose target once the button is hit. If someone wants to shoot a ship that gave up he has to retarget it active and he will get massive sec hits for killing this guy (war crime = insta-negative-10 sec rating). The ship can be robbed (cargo hold).
That's the most insane thing I've ever heard. You expect someone to pay a ransom to survive and you think he's going to believe that the pirates are going to keep their word?
The -10 security hit? I've heard a lot of pirates refer to -10 as a badge of honour. Even if most of you don't want to take the security hit, what's to stop you from bringing a -10 alt to do the executions?
And how about after your parlay is done? "Well, that sucker in the indy just paid our group 70mil for passage. Now that the deal is done let's blow up his ship and see if we can get some good loot and try and ransom his pod for another 100m."
You're PIRATES. Nobody is going to trust you. How can you not get that?
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:06:00 -
[49]
Actually you're wrong there. In the old days and even now to a degree some pirate corps have developed a reputation for being "professional" (i.e keeping their word, fair ransoms and so on).
There are corps out there that also break their word and so on and once words gets out people stop paying them.
Pirates are a varied a bunch as any other type of player in eve.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:09:00 -
[50]
I keep mine for I can't go into Empire. I need someone to bring me the ships I can't make.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Bubba Fett
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 22:13:42
The original "Strike-colors-button"-idea was:
hit the button and your ship is inmobilized (no warp, no speed). Ending this mode needs 30 seconds. All ships loose the lock and missiles loose target once the button is hit. If someone wants to shoot a ship that gave up he has to retarget it active and he will get massive sec hits for killing this guy (war crime = insta-negative-10 sec rating). The ship can be robbed (cargo hold).
That's the most insane thing I've ever heard. You expect someone to pay a ransom to survive and you think he's going to believe that the pirates are going to keep their word?
The -10 security hit? I've heard a lot of pirates refer to -10 as a badge of honour. Even if most of you don't want to take the security hit, what's to stop you from bringing a -10 alt to do the executions?
And how about after your parlay is done? "Well, that sucker in the indy just paid our group 70mil for passage. Now that the deal is done let's blow up his ship and see if we can get some good loot and try and ransom his pod for another 100m."
You're PIRATES. Nobody is going to trust you. How can you not get that?
If you find anyone in this game who has or will complain about any TDG member not holding his word on a ransom he will be kicked and you can have all my assets and isk.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:13:00 -
[52]
I like the idea's you had lifewire but to that strike color idea, I think that a pirate with -10 in sec rate or even -5 really cares if they get huge sec hit or not, think that while striking colors you can't shoot at a ship that struck colors and the ship that struck colors can't align, log or anything, it is dead in the space... that way you atleast know that stricking colors gives you somewhat safty.
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Arcticblue2
I like the idea's you had lifewire but to that strike color idea, I think that a pirate with -10 in sec rate or even -5 really cares if they get huge sec hit or not, think that while striking colors you can't shoot at a ship that struck colors and the ship that struck colors can't align, log or anything, it is dead in the space... that way you atleast know that stricking colors gives you somewhat safty.
Exploitable.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.05.25 00:19:00 -
[54]
Agreed, in a fleet battle you can all to clearly see a ship about to die striking the colour to save itself.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Nomen Nescio
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Posted - 2005.05.25 02:09:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 25/05/2005 02:10:32
Originally by: XpoHoc
Exploitable.
I say, make a button, but call it "emergency jump". Works as follows:
- You can press the button, and in 10 seconds you ship will instantly jump to some safespot random location even IF you are SCRAMBED.
- But with such jumps you drop about 40%-70% of you total CARGO and about 30%-60% of your fitted mods UNDAMAGED for enemy to pick up.
Now you think, does it worth to save a ship and lose part of your stuff, or you prefer to stay and NEGOCIATE, or you just die with a pride. I would love to see enemy fleet making emergency jump leaving cans behind I can practically hear cry of joy on teamspeak of team
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.05.25 02:15:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jeriel Jamon
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 22:13:42
The original "Strike-colors-button"-idea was:
hit the button and your ship is inmobilized (no warp, no speed). Ending this mode needs 30 seconds. All ships loose the lock and missiles loose target once the button is hit. If someone wants to shoot a ship that gave up he has to retarget it active and he will get massive sec hits for killing this guy (war crime = insta-negative-10 sec rating). The ship can be robbed (cargo hold).
Good stuff. I think it would be really good to have some other way of ending combat without neccessarily blasting the ship or having it log off or whatever.
Baaa! you must be joking.
who the hell wonts whats in a BS or BC cargo bay.
hehe.. you can have my dam amo, i GIVE UP!
never mind anything that is worth anything on my ship is my mods/clone.
the problem with pirates/buccaneers/corsairs/privateers in eve these days, this gose for the alliances somwhat aswell, is that they mostly only care about there kill board standings these days in eve.
so you get wacked just for that these days in eve and nothing more. i dont know many pirates these days that get rich off fraging ships.
only a fool would travel around in known pirate space with there best gear on.
a true pirate would never say he is a pirate nor would he wont too be made as one (aka)- rating.
i pirate in the real world would blend in and not stand out.
rember a pirate in real life would know his trade routes blend in and when ready too rob would sneek up on his target not too sink the ship but too capure it.
too sink the ship means you dont get paid..
you wont be a captin for long if you dont pay your crew.
most pirates where buccaneers/corsairs/privateers and would only attack enemy shiping of nations that where at war with their allied nations.
so lets say my home was in stain and they are at uneasy turms with say pie or what have you in prov, i would attack shiping of pie and her allies. then after i loot there ships i could hide in stain space but they would take hafe of evrything i made and still get too say they eather knoe nothing of me or clame i am wonted by them aswell.
this is what my idea of pirates are.
you get alot more out of a crime with a smile and skill then you do most times with a gun and a beating.. 
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Recluse XXX
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Posted - 2005.05.25 02:16:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Recluse XXX on 25/05/2005 02:16:45
gah! forum deleted the post, cant be arsed to re-write it :/
//Rec
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Ifni
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Posted - 2005.05.25 02:32:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 24/05/2005 23:55:02
Quote:
But we have only 30 some members,
If you really only have 30 members and no naps you have my respect and i wish you good luck. I really didnt know your pirate corp. BTW: you will need the luck - Syndicate is our farm, get your own farm running and your own cattles
I might be way off base here, but I am feeling a little offended. We've fought, in the past, and I know others in your little 3 corp grouping know us. To say you've never heard of DNA when you live not 5 jumps from us, smacks of ignorance.
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2005.05.25 03:05:00 -
[59]
Ifni, Lifewire does not offend you or your corp.
He really keeps only short memory about people who don't join our TS, doesn't matter in what corp you are.
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Xtreem
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Posted - 2005.05.25 03:18:00 -
[60]
i dont like the towing of a shipwreck, however if the ship is destroyed what about in the can there are alloy fragments that can be refined, much like rouge drones drop?
i like the surrender option, but i think it could be misused! for example, getting a re lock instantly would mean intys could kill it quick soon as a ransom was given.
so
- no locking can be done while in this mode, by either side
- if connection is lost (ie logging) the mode is auto off and ship extends the anuto jump by 30 seconds so the pirate can still get them for lame tactics.
and i must say i know a few pirates, and they make alot of money from being a pirate in low sec, enough to buy a bs infact in just 1 week of doing it, just change systems often to keep people non guessing!!
regards
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