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Klown Walk
New Eden Renegades
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
148
   |
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
I pretty much only like the zealot and that's because it's so good solo, omen seems decent but I have only tried armor fitting it. |
Ares Desideratus
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Actually one of Diesel's comments just gave me an idea.
If we find a ship that looks like a vagina it can go nice with the Thorax.
You can fly in and out and have a good time |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
350
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
Still agree with OP. Amarr sub BS is pretty weak. Im realing hoping the harby gets some love soon
How the **** do you remove a signature? |
Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords
Fatal Ascension
174
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 17:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..
I agree, Amarr subcaps are awful.
http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |
Mother Ducks
OFF THE STATION
18
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
The OP refuses to acknowledge roles of ship, so the thread really won't go anywhere.
Though, I will ask this:
What role do you think the hurricane serves now? Since you have removed "blob warfare" from the pool, you can remove insta-canes. The Brutix has replaced it within the brawling arena (so has the Drake). Hell, I would take an Arbitrator in my fleet before a Hurricane these days (at least a well piloted one). |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2406
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that  ). Works great for solo/small gang. Brutix - Disgusting DPS. Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection.
You should never, ever fly a Brutix. The Myrmidon obsoletes it completely.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Alara IonStorm
3905
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:12:00 -
[67] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
You should never, ever fly a Brutix. The Myrmidon obsoletes it completely.
I'kk bet you 20million ISK I can find a current reason to fly a Brutix over a Myrmidon.  |
Denuo Secus
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
Interesting detail: the whole Amarr ewar line is (intentionally) viable for hands-on combat without sacrificing their ewar role. I really like this hybrid nature since it makes them much more usable for solo and small gang PvP. In contrast: Caldari and Gallente ewar vessels are much more specialized and fit more into larger scale combat, especially Caldari. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2406
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 19:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
You should never, ever fly a Brutix. The Myrmidon obsoletes it completely.
I'kk bet you 20million ISK I can find a current reason to fly a Brutix over a Myrmidon.
From what I remember, the biggest difference between the Myrm and Brutix is that the Myrm has more HP and damage. Most other meaningful stats are the same (sig, speed, velocity, etc). So I guess maybe you should fly one or the other if you have crap skills?
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Torothin
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
213
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 20:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
OP flat out refused to acknowledge the use of ships that Amarr offers. TEST Alliance is an 11,000 man alliance and we are heavy into Amarr. But apparently according to the OP. That doesn't count as PvP. Gallente has the superior Dread, Logistic ship, and small scale PvP bcs. Their recons are useful in fleets but not as much as Minnie. Past that, they are lacking and outclassed. Gallente that is. |
Klown Walk
New Eden Renegades
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
148
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 21:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Torothin wrote:OP flat out refused to acknowledge the use of ships that Amarr offers. TEST Alliance is an 11,000 man alliance and we are heavy into Amarr. But apparently according to the OP. That doesn't count as PvP. Gallente has the superior Dread, Logistic ship, and small scale PvP bcs. Their recons are useful in fleets but not as much as Minnie. Past that, they are lacking and outclassed. Gallente that is.
Maybe he is talking about solo or small gangs. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2406
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Torothin wrote:OP flat out refused to acknowledge the use of ships that Amarr offers. TEST Alliance is an 11,000 man alliance and we are heavy into Amarr. But apparently according to the OP. That doesn't count as PvP. Gallente has the superior Dread, Logistic ship, and small scale PvP bcs. Their recons are useful in fleets but not as much as Minnie. Past that, they are lacking and outclassed. Gallente that is. Maybe he is talking about solo or small gangs.
I haven't flown in blobs for years and I still enjoy Amarr for solo and small gang PVP.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
21
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
Actually, regarding the Brutix. That ship is pretty pointless now thanks to the new Thorax. Much cheaper, faster, similar DPS, and can armour or shield tank well. I personally think Amarr is doing just fine. Their cruisers are seen everywhere, and the Arbitrator is arguably a better drone boat than the Vexor. The Coercer absolutely chews through frigates and doesn't even need a scram of point. The Vengeance gets a stupidly good tank and does great damage. Executioner? Best T1 Inty in the game right now in my eyes. That Maller over there? Well now he can dish damage as well as take a boatload of it. 45k EHP and 300+ DPS is no sweat for that ship. Oh and the Pilgrim will have you neuted out before you can call out over comms. Can't do much without cap can you? Sure, chew through those cap boosters. But they don't last forever. Amarr are doing just fine, and that is the reason they are not getting looked at as seriously as the other races in regard to the tiericide.
PS. 'Dat Omen  |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
Yet another thread reaches that point where no-one is willing to change there opinion on the subject matter - and the vast majority of posts are made by people who do not fly the ships they are slating/defending.
Go listen to the final episode of 'bringing solo back' from season 1. They address amarr and i largely agree with the sentiment.
What is that sentiment? I'm not telling you if you're too lazy to listen to a player pod-cast that tries to improve other peoples game playing experience. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2406
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 23:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Yet another thread reaches that point where no-one is willing to change there opinion on the subject matter - and the vast majority of posts are made by people who do not fly the ships they are slating/defending.
Go listen to the final episode of 'bringing solo back' from season 1. They address amarr and i largely agree with the sentiment.
What is that sentiment? I'm not telling you if you're too lazy to listen to a player pod-cast that tries to improve other peoples game playing experience.
I agree - everyone should watch Bringing Solo Back. I don't always agree with him, but it's still a great starting point for the Completely Clueless out there.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 10:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
Amarr ships are fine in large numbers. On a smaller scale though the problem is Lasers are a kiting weapon and Amarr ships are Brawlers. They just don't go together particularly well.
The problem is, more than anything, that they Armour tank. Fix Armour tanking and you fix Amarr for the most part... Though they could certainly do with some more Drones in the turret Cruisers. 3 doesn't really cut it when you guns have such bad tracking. |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
67
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 14:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..
Amarr frigates aren't so good.
Legion really sucks.
Guns use cap and 95% of ships have less than 3 mid slots so using cap boosters = no utility.
Most ships slower than molasses.
Everything else sucks.
EVERYTHING SUCKS D:
Stuff that doesn't suck:
Battleship+
Omen and friends.
So it seems like flying anything that isn't a Cap/Battleship will make you 2nd rate to everything else.
Alot of their ships specialize in just being tanky, painfully slow, and mediocre DPS.
The only subcap ships worth flying seem to be anything "omen" and maybe the sac.
They are not OP and not the best at PvP, but not the worst. They are in the middle or just well balanced.
As for PvE they are the worst (after minmatar and gallente) if you look at them overall since they can't change damage type.
To preform well you need to do stuff in amarr space so you won't meet Guristas or Angels.
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Maeltstome
Mentally Assured Destruction
152
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 14:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Diesel47 wrote:I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..
Amarr frigates aren't so good.
Legion really sucks.
Guns use cap and 95% of ships have less than 3 mid slots so using cap boosters = no utility.
Most ships slower than molasses.
Everything else sucks.
EVERYTHING SUCKS D:
Stuff that doesn't suck:
Battleship+
Omen and friends.
So it seems like flying anything that isn't a Cap/Battleship will make you 2nd rate to everything else.
Alot of their ships specialize in just being tanky, painfully slow, and mediocre DPS.
The only subcap ships worth flying seem to be anything "omen" and maybe the sac. They are not OP and not the best at PvP, but not the worst. They are in the middle or just well balanced. As for PvE they are the worst (after minmatar and gallente) if you look at them overall since they can't change damage type. To preform well you need to do stuff in amarr space so you won't meet Guristas or Angels.
Gallente can'nt change damage type on their guns either. And btw, guristas second lowest resist is thermal - and all high damage amarr crystals have a very large thermal component. I used to run plexes using an ishtar to tank and a 'geddon to DPS and it was a walk in the park.
|
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
67
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 15:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Funky Lazers wrote:Diesel47 wrote:I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..
Amarr frigates aren't so good.
Legion really sucks.
Guns use cap and 95% of ships have less than 3 mid slots so using cap boosters = no utility.
Most ships slower than molasses.
Everything else sucks.
EVERYTHING SUCKS D:
Stuff that doesn't suck:
Battleship+
Omen and friends.
So it seems like flying anything that isn't a Cap/Battleship will make you 2nd rate to everything else.
Alot of their ships specialize in just being tanky, painfully slow, and mediocre DPS.
The only subcap ships worth flying seem to be anything "omen" and maybe the sac. They are not OP and not the best at PvP, but not the worst. They are in the middle or just well balanced. As for PvE they are the worst (after minmatar and gallente) if you look at them overall since they can't change damage type. To preform well you need to do stuff in amarr space so you won't meet Guristas or Angels. Gallente can'nt change damage type on their guns either. And btw, guristas second lowest resist is thermal - and all high damage amarr crystals have a very large thermal component. I used to run plexes using an ishtar to tank and a 'geddon to DPS and it was a walk in the park.
As for gallente, every rat has KIN/THERM as the second lowest resist and almost never as the highest.
EM damage on lasers is around ~70%.
Gurista ships have around 75% EM and 55% Thermal resists. So if you shoot them with something like Mutifreq that is 28/20 EM/Thermal you loose 77% of damage.
You loose A LOT of damage.
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards
No Value
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 16:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
Gal'o Sengen wrote:Amarr ships are fine in large numbers. On a smaller scale though the problem is Lasers are a kiting weapon and Amarr ships are Brawlers. They just don't go together particularly well.
The problem is, more than anything, that they Armour tank. Fix Armour tanking and you fix Amarr for the most part... Though they could certainly do with some more Drones in the turret Cruisers. 3 doesn't really cut it when you guns have such bad tracking.
Unless you spice things up with your drones.
On the topic of amarr ships, the only ship I use NOT amarr is the blackbird for a different kind of ewar. Apart from that, I love my omen, my maller, my arbitrator, and my favorite frig out of them all is my crucifier.
I even used my crucifier for POS warfare. It's good for harassing snipers.
Beyond that, All of the t2 cruisers you see featured in TONS of pvp videos focusing on underdog fights and solo/small gang. Almost any and every sov fight you hear of, even blob and not always only blob, involve amarr battleships.
Granted, I LOVE the harbinger for pve, both highsec and null, and you don't see it much in lowsec, but then, it's rare to see BCs period in small gangs anyways... all ships are made for a reason I guess.
And my prophecy is EXTREMELY fun to play when I want to pilot a brick.
So yea, amarr battlecruisers might be lacking, but then, I guess it's not a matter of amarr having to be the best in EVERYTHING anyways, but I don't think Amarr suck, and I have no regretted my decision to go with Amarr yet.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á
-TheGunslinger42
Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Diesel47
painkiller.
340
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 08:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that ). Works great for solo/small gang. Brutix - Disgusting DPS. Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection. You should never, ever fly a Brutix. The Myrmidon obsoletes it completely. -Liang
You should never ever fly a rupture, the cynabal obsoletes it completely.
-Diesel |
Diesel47
painkiller.
340
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 08:51:00 -
[82] - Quote
They aren't awful when they have ganglinks and RR alts to back them up. |
Ares Desideratus
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 08:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that ). Works great for solo/small gang. Brutix - Disgusting DPS. Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection. You should never, ever fly a Brutix. The Myrmidon obsoletes it completely. -Liang You should never ever fly a rupture, the cynabal obsoletes it completely. -Diesel
This thread is over now |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
61
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 09:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:You should never ever fly a rupture, the cynabal obsoletes it completely.
-Diesel
Assuming they were all free, perhaps. But they're not. Price difference between Cyna and Rupture is HUGE (like 10 vs. 250 million), while it's negligible between Brutix and Myrmidon (40 vs. 50 million). Therefore, Liang's claim stands, whereas yours does not. |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 11:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
Wow, idiots exist... |
Diesel47
painkiller.
344
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 20:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Diesel47 wrote:You should never ever fly a rupture, the cynabal obsoletes it completely.
-Diesel Assuming they were all free, perhaps. But they're not. Price difference between Cyna and Rupture is HUGE (like 10 vs. 250 million), while it's negligible between Brutix and Myrmidon (40 vs. 50 million). Therefore, Liang's claim stands, whereas yours does not.
LOL.
The point was that both statements were idiotic claims. Mine was just exaggerated to the max.
Flying the brutix is just like flying a ferox. You get people to agress you who normally wouldn't have because of "lolbrutix".
Good luck getting anybody who knows anything to try to fight a myrm.
Get spoonfed more?  |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D
170
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 20:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..
Amarr frigates aren't so good.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. The Slicer is the best high dps / high speed kiting frigate in game. The Malediction is the best tackling interceptor. The Vengance is the frigate with the best tank in the game. What else do you need? |
Antodias
Ship spinners inc
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 22:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
Your summary of gallente ships is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Allow me to respond with a list of Amarr ships in a similar style:
Harb - Great
Prop- Great tank
Oracle - Amazing DPS
Arbie- TD boosted great
Maller - Great tank
Curse - Best ship ever
Apoc - Best fleet ship
Geddon - Best BS
Abaddon - Also Best BS!
Bhaalgorn - Amazing
Slicer - Amazing
Clearly from this list you can see that Amarr are objectively the best race in the game. Can any other race even compete?
Your dismissive attitude towards Scorch is also silly. Any buffered laser boat can burn off and maintain range long enough to apply strong damage with scorch. The Harb is probably one of the best ships for burning off gates and separating targets. Anything that's faster than you will 99% of the time die if it closes, and it can't risk kiting because of SCORCH!
Aside from this Amarr has an incredible recon line up, a HAC line as strong as any other race, a cruiser line that you should probably stop dismissing because it's been buffed incredibly (I'd fly a Maller over a rax any day), the arbitrator has been and still is my favourite solo ship in the game, and it's battleships are second only to Minmatar. As a long time Megathron pilot, nowadays I'd have to say a Geddon is better in 90% of situations.
I don't know anything about T3 cruisers except that the legion is one of the most popular gang boosters, and for that it can burn in a tiny crevice.
In reality you could have replaced "Amarr" with any other race in each of your posts and it would have made about as much sense.
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Edit: ^^ Oh my goodness dude, get Gallente's balls out of your mouth, the Taranis hasn't been worth it's price in months and months.
Well, no. Ranis is still the god king of combat interceptors. |
Noisrevbus
322
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 01:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Diesel47 wrote:You should never ever fly a rupture, the cynabal obsoletes it completely.
-Diesel Assuming they were all free, perhaps. But they're not. Price difference between Cyna and Rupture is HUGE (like 10 vs. 250 million), while it's negligible between Brutix and Myrmidon (40 vs. 50 million). Therefore, Liang's claim stands, whereas yours does not. LOL. The point was that both statements were idiotic claims. Mine was just exaggerated to the max. Flying the brutix is just like flying a ferox. You get people to agress you who normally wouldn't have because of "lolbrutix". Good luck getting anybody who knows anything to try to fight a myrm. Get spoonfed more?
Welcome to EVE online in 2012 where we give out ship recommendations based on "engageability" and claim proper use of strong ships that enable you to take on more challenging targets get you spoonfed. Since a real challenge is myth!
The fact that some people are reluctant to fight you usually have very little to do with the ship you fly and the fitting you use, or the concept you fly in a gang and how that gang is composed. The reason people are reluctant to fight you is a percieved level of competence. Most reservations and smack you see drifting around (wether it's ships, ship-roles or ship-use) is usually just poorly masked scape-bleats.
I know i've said it before: try making a new character and see how eager people are to shoot you when your dob says 2012, your corp history is blank and no one knows your name. It's why our behaviour involves creating disposable alts or why many nomadic groups are nomadic (they aim to tap into the first few days of unfamiliarity when a region still underestimate you, and take fights).
It's really an absurd reverse culture (born and bred in the age of dwindling up-engagement, where players and corps seek to make themselves look worse than they are to appeal to an inferior target pool - because they can't or won't up-engage and take on proper challenges, challenges suitable for their actual level of gameplay) and while "engageability" is amusing in itself (amusing yet not invalid), it becomes absurd when that is the approach taught to newer players.
If we don't teach our new players to take risks and challenges, what behaviour do we breed long term?
Gone are the days when we suggest pilots make themselves as good as possible; since if they are new, they will get fights anyway and will extend their target pool to take on tougher challenges. No, we preach "aim small, miss small" and try to goad weaker opponents into fights and keeping a moral high. Then us older players pat ourselves on the back, they didn't fight our Ferox or Brutix despite their awesome Myrms and Drakes, nevermind the 80m SP difference and 8 years of experience. We won despite the fact that they had EW while we honourable refused it. Call them homosexuals and blobs when you lose. You don't dabble in risk-adversity like those ... others.
If people don't want to get spoon-fed they should go for a real challenge and try to up-engage more - not settle for the small fry that are too pansy to fight a Myrm.
Spoonfed, backwards... |
Vigo Carpath
Barr Heavy Industries
Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 04:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
If everything has to be balanced why don't we just say screw it and get rid of three races. There everything balanced game fixed |
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