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Waagaa Ktlehr
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:45:00 -
[1]
My fellow corpie Trooper, Sivona and Drax told me today that they are not very happy campers because BT users somehow cannot access the game and the forums (hence why I'm posting =]).
From troop: I got them to run a tracer on 157.157.139.10 and it timed out for them too, exactly the same happened for them, they got timed out coonections after about 15-17 hops. Now the interesting bit, they said there is a problem, however its not BT. They gave me the IP address of where the connection is falling, which is 166.63.214.198, i asked who the IP belongs to and it seems to belong to an icelandic
Is this a known issue and if so, is there a known workaround / is CCP spanking BT? BT seems to blame some Icelandic company, but aren't the servers in London?
Thx for reading, let's hope this gets resolved soon! ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:55:00 -
[2]
Probably just a firewall where it stops...
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Callistus
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:56:00 -
[3]
I'm on BT and have had no problems connecting
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madmanjake
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:57:00 -
[4]
yeah me to kicked at bout 7.30 last night mt trace route came up with the same issue ...ie not leaving the BT pipe com on guys please sort it out
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Nivesi
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:03:00 -
[5]
I've been unable to connect since yesterday am. The Forums were also unavailable to me. There are a number of UK players with similar problems. I have only just this minute been able to log in.
Cant even download the latest Test patch, as the most recent available patch version is not the one running on the Test server. |
Genevieve Blue
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:04:00 -
[6]
Servers are in London yes, but I believe CCP hires the Icelandic telecom company to adminster them there, so they could well be in their name. (Siminn or something like that.)
It's hard to know exactly from the tracert though, since you can only get so far before it's blocked off by their firewall or whatever set up they use, so you can't directly trace all the way to the server even when it's working.
Might be good to compare what's happening on those hops between a working user and those that can't get in.
Incidentally, I've been having real problems at the moment, unable to get the character screen up, though I can log in with my password fine, just never get to the character to get any further.
However, that might be BT related, as they've notified they're working on my local exchange as it's overloaded or something.
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:05:00 -
[7]
Yep, servers *JUST* came back up for me now.
BT was/is blaming a C&W node in london that was named to an Icelandic company apparently.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:13:00 -
[8]
E-mail addys and telephone numbers. Enjoy.
Server Used: [ whois.arin.net ]
166.63.214.198 = [ iceland-telecom1.tsd.cw.net ] OrgName: Cable & Wireless Americas Operations Inc. OrgID: CWAO Address: 230 Park Avenue Address: Suite 1000 City: New York StateProv: NY PostalCode: 10169 Country: US NetRange: 166.63.192.0 - 166.63.223.255 CIDR: 166.63.192.0/19 NetName: CW-INTERNETACCESS-NET NetHandle: NET-166-63-192-0-1 Parent: NET-166-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Assignment NameServer: EURO-NS1.CW.NET NameServer: EURO-NS2.CW.NET NameServer: EURO-NS3.CW.NET Comment: RegDate: 1993-03-24 Updated: 2004-06-21 AbuseHandle: ABUSE660-ARIN AbuseName: Abuse Contact AbusePhone: 49 89 926 99 AbuseEmail: [email protected] OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE660-ARIN OrgAbuseName: Abuse Contact OrgAbusePhone: 49 89 926 99 OrgAbuseEmail: [email protected] OrgTechHandle: TCR3-ARIN OrgTechName: Cremer Tobias OrgTechPhone: 49 89 92699 OrgTechEmail: [email protected] OrgTechHandle: SMO31-ARIN OrgTechName: Morhoff Sandra OrgTechPhone: 49 89 92699 OrgTechEmail: [email protected] OrgTechHandle: HRO9-ARIN OrgTechName: Rother Heiko OrgTechPhone: 4989926990 OrgTechEmail: [email protected] ARIN WHOIS database last updated 2005-05-26 19: 10
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:15:00 -
[9]
/me saves those to a .txt file for if it goes down again
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:25:00 -
[10]
ping 157.157.139.10
Pinging 157.157.139.10 with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out. Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 157.157.139.10: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
This IP is not reachable. Likely firewall blocking access and is probably not ment to be pingable.
ping 166.63.214.198
Pinging 166.63.214.198 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 166.63.214.198: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=238 Reply from 166.63.214.198: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=238 Reply from 166.63.214.198: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=238 Reply from 166.63.214.198: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=238
Ping statistics for 166.63.214.198: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 102ms, Maximum = 103ms, Average = 102ms
That IP is definately supposed to be reachable.
GL.
C.H.
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:34:00 -
[11]
Oh, and to make your call centre tech support peoples lives a living hell...
The next time they ask you to do a tracert and then try to "pass the buck" by saying "it's someone elses problem...somewhere out in the ethernet of the intranet blah blah..."
Just say "Ok, let's call them and find out. Please conference call us to these numbers..." (make sure the tech support guy stays ON THE PHONE with you) If you get an answering machine - make HIM give a return number, his agent ID and a reference number for YOU when you call back asking WTFMYBBISGIMPED! If they say the word "Unsupported" escalate to a supervisor immediately. Never say the word "game" and never ever ever allow them to transfer you ANYWHERE without them staying ON THE LINE. (they hate that)
Server Used: [ whois.register.com ]
http://myeve.eve-online.com = [ 157.157.139.201 ] Organization: CCP ehf Sigtryggur Sigurdsson Klapparstigur 28 Reykjavik IS-101 IS Phone: 354 511 4999 Fax..: 354 511 4998 Email: [email protected] Registrar Name....: Register.com Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com Domain Name: EVE-ONLINE.COM Created on..............: Fri Feb 25 2000 Expires on..............: Fri Feb 25 2011 Record last updated on..: Thu Sep 25 2003 Administrative Contact: CCP ehf Sigtryggur Sigurdsson Klapparstigur 28 Reykjavik IS-101 IS Phone: 354 511 4999 Fax..: 354 511 4998 Email: [email protected] Technical Contact: CCP ehf Sigtryggur Sigurdsson Klapparstigur 28 Reykjavik IS-101 IS Phone: 354 511 4999 Fax..: 354 511 4998 Email: [email protected] Zone Contact: CCP ehf Sigtryggur Sigurdsson Klapparstigur 28 Reykjavik IS-101 IS Phone: 354 511 4999 Fax..: 354 511 4998 Email: [email protected] Domain servers in listed order: NS.CCP.CC 193.4.230.218 ICENET.ISHOLF.IS 194.105.224.1
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ddogg
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:01:00 -
[12]
had the same - but its ok now CEO - |
ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:04:00 -
[13]
make a mountain out of a molehill and it will be solved - good advice regarding tech support though.
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madmanjake
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:05:00 -
[14]
Quote: Oh, and to make your call centre tech support peoples lives a living hell...
hey i work in a call centre that wont work ... they will just say "im sorry thats not possible" transfer you mid ring hang up what ppl have to remember that front line agents anit worth shouting at we have very ltd powers ...and are only doing a job just like you ( do you enjoy being shouted at for something that is way way outta your control) heres a hint ....when you call a center be nice ...be polite ....it will get you a lot further in the long run
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Frost88
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Callistus I'm on BT and have had no problems connecting
Ditto. ------------------------------------------------ I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
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Findail
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:08:00 -
[16]
Hmmm... Well, as someone who runs a telco network, I'd be less than impressed if end users started calling me direct to complain while I'm working on a routing issue. In fact, I'd probably be having words with their service provider about their continued net access
You see, traceroutes are of very limited use. They can indicate a general location of a problem, but not what that problem is. Could be a screwed up route filter, or route flap damping has come into play, or something simple like a dead gbic or atm card.
Also, if any of the networks you transit use MPLS, you are NOT seeing the physical path in a traceroute. You see only what you're allowed to see.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:10:00 -
[17]
mmm in that case put it in writing direct to the companies concerned or email be polite but persistant until you get an answer. That is a point though something with the interent.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:29:00 -
[18]
This explains why a friend of mine has been losing his connection several times a day. He is really, really annoyed, as he had two Extravaganzas to do. |
ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:36:00 -
[19]
i have connection issues several tiems a week on average (but i put in 10-12 hour days on eve sometimes)
That is from australia though
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Genevieve Blue
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Findail Hmmm... Well, as someone who runs a telco network, I'd be less than impressed if end users started calling me direct to complain while I'm working on a routing issue. In fact, I'd probably be having words with their service provider about their continued net access
A shame, because you should be wondering why the ISP fobbed them off and left them to contact you because they were unwilling to. If they're phoning you rather than the ISP that's a bit of an issue, if they're phoning you out of desperation from a crummy ISP, complaining to the ISP won't help.
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Hunt Smacker
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:43:00 -
[21]
Quote: This explains why a friend of mine has been losing his connection several times a day. He is really, really annoyed, as he had two Extravaganzas to do.
I'm on BT and also get this same problem, it just keeps dropping. I gave up on missions because I can never complete them in time for bonus now.
Also, I cannot get a ping reply from the EVE server. It does work though, and I can login and play fine most of the time, minus the disconnecting...
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Genevieve Blue
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: madmanjake
Quote: Oh, and to make your call centre tech support peoples lives a living hell...
hey i work in a call centre that wont work ... they will just say "im sorry thats not possible" transfer you mid ring hang up what ppl have to remember that front line agents anit worth shouting at we have very ltd powers ...and are only doing a job just like you ( do you enjoy being shouted at for something that is way way outta your control) heres a hint ....when you call a center be nice ...be polite ....it will get you a lot further in the long run
This goes both ways.
No it doesn't pay to be rude to the customer services people, but I've lost count of the number of times I've been left dealing with customer service staff that don't care or aren't competent to deal with the problems they're paid to.
The number of them that have blatently lied to me is incredible and is probably what makes me get angry.
It might not be nice, but you have to understand in many cases, we're frustrated over something we've paid for that's going wrong again, and usually the fifth time we've phoned to deal with it and been fobbed off.
I think my record for getting hold of a missing magazine from a subscription was 10 to 12 weeks and 25 phone calls, and at least a dozen staff and supervisors promising they'd send it out, right away.
In the end, I made a mockery of the whole customer service centre when I phoned the company's business line and the rather more helpful receptionist managed to take the time and effort to dispatch it right away - something the call centre staff paid to do it hadn't managed in 2 months!
Moral of the story - I've never bought any title they've published since, and given I liked their products, that's thousands of pounds of revenue that poor service lost them.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:58:00 -
[23]
mmmm a point i have worked briefly at a customer service desk.
The point being from the custoemr side i quite often ring customer service departments and 9 times out of 10 they lead you round in circles and you still get nowhere - companies promise customer service but dont deliver its all hype - they dont have enough staff that know what they are doing and there seems to be no recourse if you cant get progress.
Online share trading brokerage services ae my biggest gripe, magazine subscriptions, bank call centres and telcos - whats worse is when you get hung up on. Now they are all about customer service which is to keep and help existing customers - then they get allworried when customer feedback surveys fall short. Mostly its a smokescreen but there are very helpful corparations out there as well.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:32:00 -
[24]
Back on at last \o/. Was down for about 15 hours in total for me >_<.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Baconjoe
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:34:00 -
[25]
My COusin had the same thing. And he uses BT. He will be happy to know he is not the only one.
We are cursed men
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Grave Peril
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:42:00 -
[26]
I am also on BT and was unable to access eve at all last night or this morning. As such I must now have timed out on the important mission I was given Wednesday morning.
Is there any chance that the hit to my standings can be reversed?
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Valan
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:36:00 -
[27]
I'm a Network Engineer, I fix stuff other people break. People always scream at us instead of the guy who broke it. I can tell you now that if I have a queue of issues that need fixing, the ******** goes to the back of the queue, regardless of who you are. As long as I'm fixing something my boss is happy.
In the organisation I currently work for we prioritise by how much the customer spends with us, then bandwidth and then by length of outage.
I start a new job in a few weeks if this happens again I maybe able to tell you exactly what happened.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.27 15:30:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Andrue on 27/05/2005 15:34:00
Originally by: Trooper B99 Yep, servers *JUST* came back up for me now. BT was/is blaming a C&W node in london that was named to an Icelandic company apparently.
Good old Clueless & Witless. Nice to see they are still as incompetent as ever.
As to the 'Icelandic Company' - that's Iceland Telecom as any half way decent traceroute tool would tell you. Not surprising that an Iceland software house chose to use another Icelandic company to host its game servers really. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Lisa Mafia
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Posted - 2005.05.27 15:46:00 -
[29]
I am with BT i have been able to access the game fine the forums have played up a bit but not to bad.
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shivan
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Posted - 2005.05.27 16:02:00 -
[30]
Edited by: shivan on 27/05/2005 16:07:58
Originally by: Capt Hindgrinder Oh, and to make your call centre tech support peoples lives a living hell...
The next time they ask you to do a tracert and then try to "pass the buck" by saying "it's someone elses problem...somewhere out in the ethernet of the intranet blah blah..."
Just say "Ok, let's call them and find out. Please conference call us to these numbers..." (make sure the tech support guy stays ON THE PHONE with you) If you get an answering machine - make HIM give a return number, his agent ID and a reference number for YOU when you call back asking WTFMYBBISGIMPED! If they say the word "Unsupported" escalate to a supervisor immediately. Never say the word "game" and never ever ever allow them to transfer you ANYWHERE without them staying ON THE LINE. (they hate that)
OK, i work in a call center and do tech surport for networking problems. If people phone up and wanner speak to my supervisor, then I know that my supervisor will back me up 100% of the time and will give exactly the same info out as what I have. (also if they have to take the call, means i get to go make a cup of tea )
As for transfereing a call, bouns, at least on the other end I know that the person I speak to is going to at least be more resonable to me as we do a simlar job, also why the caller is on hold, im racking up his phone bill talking to someone while he/she is on hold.
Something for people to think about when getting shirty with Call Center agents.
(P.S.) Applying to become a supervisor where I work --------------------------------------- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
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Gobbals
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Posted - 2005.05.27 17:02:00 -
[31]
Same Problem here, except EVE has been disconnecting like that for weeks for me. So i take it there is no actual fix? Is it something CCP is looking in to? Is BT doing anything about it? What is actually being done about it?
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.05.27 18:19:00 -
[32]
My phone provider is BT, my ISP is a subsidiary of C&W, and I have only had one connection drop, the night before last. But I have seen for myself, one of my friends getting booted as frequently as every quarter hour for a whole night, over the last few nights.
Given that these companies have virtually a monopoly over here, I don't see what people can do other than complain. It's not as if people can take their custom elsewhere in a lot of cases, it would be like trying to find an alternative to the National Grid.
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Hunt Smacker
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Posted - 2005.05.27 19:38:00 -
[33]
Weekends are awful... Cant play EVE for ****. It just drops all the time.
So heres the thing. I've tried EVERYTHING, and BT are just useless at finding a solution to this problem. So do I change ISP? Will it be any better? It's all ROUTED through the same exchange AFAIK... ?
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.05.28 02:19:00 -
[34]
Here's a question.
Does anyone else notice a pattern of 01:45 GMT connection losses in the UK, using BT lines? It happens to me.
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.28 03:36:00 -
[35]
Edited by: nahtoh on 28/05/2005 03:44:47 Edited by: nahtoh on 28/05/2005 03:40:40
Originally by: Capt Hindgrinder Oh, and to make your call centre tech support peoples lives a living hell... never ever ever allow them to transfer you ANYWHERE without them staying ON THE LINE. (they hate that)
Server Used: [ whois.register.com ]
http://myeve.eve-online.com = [ 157.157.139.201 ]
Well If you come through to me welcome to little trick we call "penalty hold"...
Stuff like this is why after roughly 3 months virually no ISP tech gives a rats ass, tell me you one of the total ****ers that thinks with have the big red fix everthing button on our desks?
Sigh we should have a phones that allow us to give electric shocks down the phone to dumbass whinners...
Or you may find out that the sups name is Mr D Tone
Don't annoy the techs on the phones...they normally can't fix stuff like this...
And I don't work for BT..
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.28 03:37:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ollobrains make a mountain out of a molehill and it will be solved - good advice regarding tech support though.
Wanna bet?
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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ophiuchus3000
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Posted - 2005.05.28 07:09:00 -
[37]
Just adding my name to the list of people effected. I lagged then dropped. I had access to everything on the web bar the forums here and eve itself :(
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carnezac
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Posted - 2005.05.28 08:39:00 -
[38]
nahtoh well said mate
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.28 10:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy My phone provider is BT, my ISP is a subsidiary of C&W, and I have only had one connection drop, the night before last.
No problems here.
Quote: But I have seen for myself, one of my friends getting booted as frequently as every quarter hour for a whole night, over the last few nights.
Ouch. Time to change ISPs then. I've not had any connection problems since Easter '04 except when the servers were down.
Quote: Given that these companies have virtually a monopoly over here
You can't 'virtually' have a monopoly. You either have exclusive control of the market or you don't. In the case of UK ISPs there is no monopoly. The UK ISP market is awash with alternates and most operate their own backbone.
I would advise anyone that experiences more than one connection failure a month to switch to a different ISP. My personal recommendation would be Nildram. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Hunt Smacker
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Posted - 2005.05.28 11:08:00 -
[40]
My disconnects seem to depend on time of day. Usually after midnight, it goes offline for 1-2 hours completely. During the evenings it can disconnect every five minutes for about half hour, then drop every half hour after that or so. Daytimes is usually random... Either way, its really annoying and making it impossible to play EVE properly.
So different ISP's use different backbones? Cause I don't wanna change to one that's no better, but I need some pointers...
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Demonikan
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Posted - 2005.05.28 11:18:00 -
[41]
My eve connection went bang last night, I called my local Telecom's service center, and got some woman asking me if I had setup my internet explorer settings correctly After I had informed here that I was getting ocassional layer 3 connectivity, but it was unstable and getting no name resolution at all; she just told me that she would log it and get an engineer out.
After a couple of hours watching TV I came back to my network being fine again, called telecom back, and they informed me that I was the first person to warn them that there primary link off island had gone down, the secondary has cut in then the primary had come back up creating routing loops on the nework...like duh
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Dawson
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Posted - 2005.05.28 11:24:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Dawson on 28/05/2005 11:25:24 Iam with NTL and cant post!
*edit* omg its worked
For the last 2 weeks or so I havnt been able to post on the forums. Although playing the actual game hasnt been a probblem.
Ambassador Admiral of the Blue Join BSC |
Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.28 12:23:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Andrue on 28/05/2005 12:23:33
Originally by: Hunt Smacker So different ISP's use different backbones? Cause I don't wanna change to one that's no better, but I need some pointers...
A good place to look is www.adslguide.org this has a comparison function and message boards where you can ask about an ISP.
Finding out which ones operate a backbone and which just rent server space of somebody else' network is complicated. Some ISPs will tell you up front. Others avoid the subject.
M ISP is Nildram and they seem pretty good. As regards their Nildram network
they were independant but as of about a year ago PIPEX acquired them. So far the service seems no worse though so I'm still with them. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hunt Smacker My disconnects seem to depend on time of day. Usually after midnight, it goes offline for 1-2 hours completely. During the evenings it can disconnect every five minutes for about half hour, then drop every half hour after that or so. Daytimes is usually random... Either way, its really annoying and making it impossible to play EVE properly.
So different ISP's use different backbones? Cause I don't wanna change to one that's no better, but I need some pointers...
I use UKonline, and they got some good prices if you in range of one of the unbundled exchanges...Had one drop out in 3 months and it only lasted for about 20 mins...8 Meg for ú29.99 4TW
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Shaddex
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Posted - 2005.05.28 22:52:00 -
[45]
I believe I have an answer for some of you ppl in internet land. I had the same prob, not being able to connect to EVE or the Forums when the rest of the worl could. My prob was this......
My Anti virus had found a virus on my machine whilst I was playin EVE. EVE Shuts down and I cannot connect.
Reason: CCP detected there was a virus comming from my IP and so they blocked it. Simple.
After a quick username change to my BT account (Ie. putting a 1 before the @ on the BT username) I changed my IP and was able to connect. Hope this helps ppl if you get the same prob.
Solution: Dont let your anti-virus software run whilst you are playin EVE. ----------------------------------------------
There are only 10 ways to understand binary. Either you do, or you dont. |
Vinyl Pants
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Posted - 2005.05.28 22:53:00 -
[46]
Heh, I had 10 harvesters mining an asteroid when I lost my connection, I was also getting dropped packets after 15 hops, lets say i had happy tears when i returned to find all my drones intact and untouched.
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ollobrains
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Posted - 2005.05.28 23:02:00 -
[47]
Having those drones safe was a good move
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.05.28 23:12:00 -
[48]
I can quite believe it was a C&W issue. The name they've allready been called in this thread is QUITE appropriate.
Oh, and what I love is when I phone up an ISP tech support and they start giving me really helpful advice, which is of no use since it's usually for XP (which I don't - I run 2k) and assumes all sorts of things about my systems setup. Which isn't an issue in the first place.
Especially when I'm phoning to ask when their proxy will be fixed. Again.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.29 02:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Oh, and what I love is when I phone up an ISP tech support and they start giving me really helpful advice, which is of no use since it's usually for XP (which I don't - I run 2k) and assumes all sorts of things about my systems setup. Which isn't an issue in the first place.
Especially when I'm phoning to ask when their proxy will be fixed. Again.
We are not all that clueless...But when 98% of all your calls are XP systems you tend to assume that all of em are.
Mind you when asked I always recomened 2k
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Findail
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Posted - 2005.05.30 00:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Genevieve Blue
A shame, because you should be wondering why the ISP fobbed them off and left them to contact you because they were unwilling to. If they're phoning you rather than the ISP that's a bit of an issue, if they're phoning you out of desperation from a crummy ISP, complaining to the ISP won't help.
Well, as a carrier, the ISP would be our customer, but the end user isn't. The end user is a customer of whatever ISP he uses. The ISP can open a fault ticket, not their customers. There is no direct business relationship with their customers, and their customers are not entitled to act on behalf of the ISP (hope that makes sense)
Anyway, to locate a connectivity problem, do a quick traceroute from several network points. Anyone can do this. Do a trace from your own machine, then go to somewhere like http://www.bgp4.net and pick a route-server to telnet on to. Then do a trace from the route-server to the same destination. It'll nail down a route problem reasonably quickly. Then send the whole thing off to your ISP. If they won't do anything, change ISP's, and tell them WHY you're unhappy with their service
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Valan
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Posted - 2005.05.30 02:35:00 -
[51]
In this case the carrier probably knew where and what the issue was long before any ISP opened a trouble ticket. Companies actually monitor networks. All of these end point users trying to diagnose issues is what helpdesks are for. They are to keep all the wanna be engineers away from the people trying to fix the issue.
The inference here is that the networks don't know what they're doing. Most companies won't tell you what the issue was or blame it on someone else. The truth is it takes time to get an engineer out of his bed to go clean fibres, replace cards, restart equipment or diagnose routing issues.
Most ISPs and network companies are worried about their big corporate customers not the guy spending ú20 per month on ADSL to his house. Providing internet to domestic users is so far down the priority scale its untrue. Obviously if someone like AOL has an issue with a carrier the carrier takes it seriously due to the amount of cash they spend, but when you ring up I can pretty much guarantee there is someone already working on it.
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.30 19:10:00 -
[52]
Originally by: shivan
OK, i work in a call center and do tech surport for networking problems. If people phone up and wanner speak to my supervisor, then I know that my supervisor will back me up 100% of the time and will give exactly the same info out as what I have. (also if they have to take the call, means i get to go make a cup of tea )
As for transfereing a call, bouns, at least on the other end I know that the person I speak to is going to at least be more resonable to me as we do a simlar job, also why the caller is on hold, im racking up his phone bill talking to someone while he/she is on hold.
Something for people to think about when getting shirty with Call Center agents.
(P.S.) Applying to become a supervisor where I work
6 months SDSL/ADSL Provisioning - ACI Rhythms Netconnections 1 year Rogers@Home cable tech support - tier 1 - frontline. 10 months Qwest Wireless Billing Escalations. 3 years Verizon On-line Tech Support - tier 3 + MSN 8.
I have a little call centre experience...i know how you "outsourced" guys work. Smile and lie, pass the buck or transfer the call - whatever you do keep it under 600 seconds or your metrics will be under review. Only fix the issues that you can fix in under 10mins, if it's gonna take longer do something small and ask the cust to call back. Make sure you say "Is there anything else i can help you with?" before you dodge their issue or you might get "dinged" by Quality As5urance. (Make sure you tell all your agents this when you become a Sup...you'll hit your bonus metrics 100% of the time)
The reason i escalate to your sup is because you have no authority and are so worried about your call time that i have doubts that you will give me a true effort to address my issue. You want to go make a cup of tea while i talk to him? You're still under aux and it's likely ruining your call time for the whole week. Great. Serves you right for not helping your customers. Your Sup will not mind warm xfering with me up to tier 3 tech support where we will continue to run up your calltime as well as the tier 3 agent until finally he "might" send a trouble ticket down to the CO. Meanwhile - at the CO, the telco tech will look at his trouble ticket and see that the frontline agent (you) did absolutely no troubleshooting and will close the ticket.
Rinse and repeat until you get a GOOD agent who speaks english, looks at the notes from previous calls and says to himself "Jesus! I guess i better follow this though to completion and get the CO on the phone instead of following the process and asking you to power stroke your modem and reboot your computer 10x." Last but not least. 99% of all tech support helpdesks are 1-800 (toll free) numbers, so while you have me on hold it's actually running up your call-centres phone bill, which is then passed on to the client you are outsourced by eventually leading to a spanking from the client who demands that your centre needs to lower AHT across the board, thereby making every agents job harder. It's a viscious cycle.
Outsourcing is the problem.
C.H.
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.30 23:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Capt Hindgrinder
Originally by: shivan
OK, i work in a call center and do tech surport for networking problems. If people phone up and wanner speak to my supervisor, then I know that my supervisor will back me up 100% of the time and will give exactly the same info out as what I have. (also if they have to take the call, means i get to go make a cup of tea )
As for transfereing a call, bouns, at least on the other end I know that the person I speak to is going to at least be more resonable to me as we do a simlar job, also why the caller is on hold, im racking up his phone bill talking to someone while he/she is on hold.
Something for people to think about when getting shirty with Call Center agents.
(P.S.) Applying to become a supervisor where I work
6 months SDSL/ADSL Provisioning - ACI Rhythms Netconnections 1 year Rogers@Home cable tech support - tier 1 - frontline. 10 months Qwest Wireless Billing Escalations. 3 years Verizon On-line Tech Support - tier 3 + MSN 8.
I have a little call centre experience...i know how you "outsourced" guys work. Smile and lie, pass the buck or transfer the call - whatever you do keep it under 600 seconds or your metrics will be under review. Only fix the issues that you can fix in under 10mins, if it's gonna take longer do something small and ask the cust to call back. Make sure you say "Is there anything else i can help you with?" before you dodge their issue or you might get "dinged" by Quality As5urance. (Make sure you tell all your agents this when you become a Sup...you'll hit your bonus metrics 100% of the time)
The reason i escalate to your sup is because you have no authority and are so worried about your call time that i have doubts that you will give me a true effort to address my issue. You want to go make a cup of tea while i talk to him? You're still under aux and it's likely ruining your call time for the whole week. Great. Serves you right for not helping your customers. Your Sup will not mind warm xfering with me up to tier 3 tech support where we will continue to run up your calltime as well as the tier 3 agent until finally he "might" send a trouble ticket down to the CO. Meanwhile - at the CO, the telco tech will look at his trouble ticket and see that the frontline agent (you) did absolutely no troubleshooting and will close the ticket.
Rinse and repeat until you get a GOOD agent who speaks english, looks at the notes from previous calls and says to himself "Jesus! I guess i better follow this though to completion and get the CO on the phone instead of following the process and asking you to power stroke your modem and reboot your computer 10x." Last but not least. 99% of all tech support helpdesks are 1-800 (toll free) numbers, so while you have me on hold it's actually running up your call-centres phone bill, which is then passed on to the client you are outsourced by eventually leading to a spanking from the client who demands that your centre needs to lower AHT across the board, thereby making every agents job harder. It's a viscious cycle.
Outsourcing is the problem.
C.H.
That maybe how it works in the US but not all call centers do so...You ask 99% of my sups a tech question guess who they are gonna check with...Me I escalate faults...not them I am also not teir 1 phone monkey...You don't want to TS with me then get off my phone...one way or the other I don't belive the customer is always right and I don't put up with any crap...be nice and civil and I will go the extra mile for you.
Act like a ass and I know to a milimeter where my support boundires are and they will be rigidly inforced and there is not **** you can do about it.
In house or outsourced there is always a matrix that is enforced.
Theres only one thing better than a thank you email from a customer and thats LARTing a luser
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.05.30 23:58:00 -
[54]
always tell a tec sopport guy your a gamer..
most times they will do a little extra for you.
alot of them are gamming junkys themselfs like we are, so they put out a little more efford for yea.
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bUBbLeS
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Posted - 2005.05.31 00:24:00 -
[55]
Blue Yonder 4tw
no issues at all
i get maybe 1 outage of 2 or 3 hrs every 6 months
tech support are great, i usually phone within 10 or 15 minutes of an outage, get straight through and usually thier engineers have already been allerted, and the call center guys have a description of the problems resolution and an eta on a fix.
blueyonder > BT
and cAKe
Julius ceaser : "operor vos volo MCCCXXXVII laganum bUBbLeS?"
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.31 00:48:00 -
[56]
Originally by: OffBeaT always tell a tec sopport guy your a gamer..
most times they will do a little extra for you.
alot of them are gamming junkys themselfs like we are, so they put out a little more efford for yea.
Tell tech support that you're a "gamer" and they'll ping you, see a reply and tell you "Your internet service is fine. On-line games are not supported. Was there anything else i can help you with today? Thanks for calling xxx" - Click.
C.H.
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Capt Hindgrinder
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Posted - 2005.05.31 01:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: nahtoh
That maybe how it works in the US but not all call centers do so...You ask 99% of my sups a tech question guess who they are gonna check with...Me I escalate faults...not them I am also not teir 1 phone monkey...You don't want to TS with me then get off my phone...one way or the other I don't belive the customer is always right and I don't put up with any crap...be nice and civil and I will go the extra mile for you.
Act like a ass and I know to a milimeter where my support boundires are and they will be rigidly inforced and there is not **** you can do about it.
In house or outsourced there is always a matrix that is enforced.
Theres only one thing better than a thank you email from a customer and thats LARTing a luser
That IS how it works in EVERY outsourced call centre in the US, Canada and India. It seems even moreso typical that your non-technical sup has no idea what you're even doing while on the call. You could tell him that the custs Plankt Bubble is broken and that it's not supported and he'd prolly tell the cx this with absolute confidence in you - the agent. If you're not tier 1 then you should totally understand the sheer amount of TS dodgers that inhabit your front line support tier, passing the buck, xfering to billing for no apparent reason or cold xfering up to tier 2-3 and leaving no notes as to what has already been TS.
I will completely 100% totally agree that it's almost ENTIRELY end-user error that they are calling about but this is beside the point. Your function is to fix the problem, not sit back and grade how polite your customer is and if he/she is "deserving" of you uber geek time. Perhaps you feel that "educating" the customer about "support boundaries" shows exceptional customer service...i'm sure your QA department would agree with that statement, but the fact is - you get paid to HELP PEOPLE. You should do everything and anything you can to facilitate that help to your clients paying customers, not see how fast you can get off the call without getting busted by QA for refusing to TS with the cust.
C.H.
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.05.31 13:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Capt Hindgrinder
That IS how it works in EVERY outsourced call centre in the US, Canada and India. It seems even moreso typical that your non-technical sup has no idea what you're even doing while on the call. You could tell him that the custs Plankt Bubble is broken and that it's not supported and he'd prolly tell the cx this with absolute confidence in you - the agent. If you're not tier 1 then you should totally understand the sheer amount of TS dodgers that inhabit your front line support tier, passing the buck, xfering to billing for no apparent reason or cold xfering up to tier 2-3 and leaving no notes as to what has already been TS.
I will completely 100% totally agree that it's almost ENTIRELY end-user error that they are calling about but this is beside the point. Your function is to fix the problem, not sit back and grade how polite your customer is and if he/she is "deserving" of you uber geek time. Perhaps you feel that "educating" the customer about "support boundaries" shows exceptional customer service...i'm sure your QA department would agree with that statement, but the fact is - you get paid to HELP PEOPLE. You should do everything and anything you can to facilitate that help to your clients paying customers, not see how fast you can get off the call without getting busted by QA for refusing to TS with the cust.
C.H.
Tell me about clueless techs you don't need to do, 50% of my daily calls are cleaning up after them...but you seemed to miss relevent parts of my post
1. be nice and civil and I will go the extra mile for you.
2.Act like a ass and I know to a milimeter where my support boundires are and they will be rigidly inforced and there is not **** you can do about it.
3.You don't want to TS with me then get off my phone...one way or the other I don't belive the customer is always right and I don't put up with any crap
I am there to fix things I am not there as a random verbal target for asshats...If your upset I will try to claum you down then try and fix your problem.
You swear at me you get three warnings then you are going to be listining to the dialtone shouting is dealt with in the same manner.
If I know how to fix the problem but its to far beyound my support boundires to take you through it I will tell you what you need to do/get someone to do for you.
Christ I have had mbrs hang up because they found out that I am 30 mins past my finish time and they did not want to keep me any longer.
Since you know most sups are not techs then why demand to speak to one...if you are a Tech then why advise peeps to lie/withhold info to support techs?
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.31 21:57:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Andrue on 31/05/2005 22:00:21
Originally by: bUBbLeS Blue Yonder 4tw
no issues at all
i get maybe 1 outage of 2 or 3 hrs every 6 months
tbh that is still more than me. To be strictly truthful I do have to admit that I work for a living and have a life so I can't say that I know I get 24/7 service but I do run an email server and just checking its logs it has reported no connection issues since July of last year. I can also say that in the last twelve months I have never been aware of a dead internet connection except for the odd times when my router crashes. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.31 22:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Capt Hindgrinder
Originally by: OffBeaT always tell a tec sopport guy your a gamer..
most times they will do a little extra for you.
alot of them are gamming junkys themselfs like we are, so they put out a little more efford for yea.
Tell tech support that you're a "gamer" and they'll ping you, see a reply and tell you "Your internet service is fine. On-line games are not supported. Was there anything else i can help you with today? Thanks for calling xxx" - Click.
C.H.
Lol, not from Nildram. It's kind of ironic that I have hardly ever needed them. The few times I have are when the problem is with someone else' network (as in Easter '04 when Clueless&Witless screwed up). Even so they have been helpful, understanding and help me find out the email addy for the people running that network. They won't send an email on my behalf but they will assist me in tracking down the cause and working out who to email.
I know from ADSLGuide that they welcome and like gamers. They used to host the Jolt gaming network (may still do) so that's probably why. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
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SinBin
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Posted - 2005.05.31 22:08:00 -
[61]
.sarcasume mode switched to overdrive.
I agree & I think its a conspicy by all the PC makers & ISP's against EVE, its claerly there fault eve is unstale & it all started once we were playing eve & its only eve being effected.
Alain ware pc im told are the worse offenders & reports that my pcs only are fairly unstable wile running eve must make um a better buy ? or just get a dell then maybe more wont work witch does make things feel more even. _______________________________________
Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Maybe end the election round will do it ? & could save hundred of Users & Mods pain. |
Findail
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Posted - 2005.06.04 12:17:00 -
[62]
Since so many of us work in the industry, some of you might get a kick out of this if you haven't already heard it
http://www.thedogs*******s.co.uk/gigflapping/
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Mannakin
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Posted - 2005.06.04 13:39:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Mannakin on 04/06/2005 13:39:09 tbh, I wish I was back on BT.
I'm unfortunately with TalkTalk in the UK. They have recently started "port throttling" anything that isn't web or e-mail to nerf the P2P people.
Unfortunately, they have screwed up all online gaming ports at the same time.
Result, no EVE after 16:00.
I've tried to get them to fix this with no luck after 2 weeks, so I'm off to UK Online.
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Vixnil
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Posted - 2005.06.04 13:39:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Vixnil on 04/06/2005 13:38:54 wrong thread
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.06.04 16:09:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mannakin
Result, no EVE after 16:00.
I've tried to get them to fix this with no luck after 2 weeks, so I'm off to UK Online.
Uk Online are a good ISP...no port throttling I can see...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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