It' should be the most obvious issues when it comes to balancing, that the tier 2 BCs are performing way better than they should.
The reason so many are against nerfing these ships are probably due to them being easily accecible and popular GÇô everybody and their dog is using them. We don't have pilots that are stuck on the T1 cruiser level, complaining about how the cane and the drake obsolete a bunch of ships in their wake, because the step from cruisers to Bcs is so very small.

The lack of support for a nerf does not however make these ships balanced.
And no, buffing tier 1 Bcs is not a sollution. When the introduction of 4 ships make a fleet of old ships obsolete GÇô you adress the 4 new ships GÇô not the fleet of ships.

The thread got around to the point of saying that Tier 1 needs a boost so that we have eight instead of two to four options.

Learn to ******* do something besides sitting at zero and shooting someone next to you. This game is more than just gate camping and brawling at zero.

Nerf drake? NO ... simple as that. Drake is a very balanced ship PVE wise (flew one from 2008 till this year (ok had one year break though)) it can tank very well if you want to sacrifice its dps or it does acceptable (not even AWEsome) dps if you are willing to sacrifice its tank OR it can do both if you like to make an insanely expensive drake (I had once a drake like that, it was worth roughly around 1.5 bill and it performed almost as well as a 500 mill costing Nighthawk fit hehe). Pvp wise its passive tank with high buffer make it a popular choice but do not forget that if fitting a drake for max buffer it also has a sig radius which is bigger than your average battleship.

Just my 2 cents as a very happy ex-drake pilot (well i still use one for wormhole expeditions because its way cheaper than taking a nighthawk into wormhole space hehe)

...

Here:

---

Drake 1 & Drake 2

[Drake, Kill them all]
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Medium Shield Booster II
Target Painter II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5

...................

[Drake, Passive standard]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5


...

Drake 1

296 / 352 (vamp means it won't run dry)
443 DPS / 1355 volley (EFT)

---

Drake 2

799 / 799 constant defence
225 DPS / 1444 volley (EFT)

---

Cyclone

119 / 590 (tank sacrifice and has to pulse it, so can't sustain)
389 DPS / 579 Volley
__________________________

So ... the first Drake does way more damage and the second drake has way more tank. The first Drake will probably have more tank over time than the Cyclone.

..?

On both Drakes, you need to swap the passive recharge for buffer. I know from experience that a passive Recharge tank is absolutely useless. Sure, works nice when their is low incoming DPS; but get some high Alpha or higher DPS than buffer and you're wrecked.

Enough DPS to alpha a battlecruiser? Really? Passive drakes can run C3s fine, albeit slowly as hell, buffer drake however will just die.

Maybe a buffer drake can run a C2 (I don't know, I've never run anything below a C3), and it'd probably have better DPS. But I'd still hardly call passive fits useless.

*EDIT: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57757-Drake-c3-WH.html

edit: That Passive fit you linked is actually fine, and probably holds its own in C3s pretty well. The issue is when a PvP fleet shows up; not the Sleepers themselves. Any more than two moderately skilled PvP pilots, and it's going to die in a fire. Two will kill it just fine too, in most cases.

not supported.. -1

rather than try nerfing current ships, lets continue to expand and create new ones. eve could always use more diversity of vessels to fly. a new ship is something to get excited about, something ccp can advertise to pull new players in. I know there is a large hate for drakes, but that is no reason to ask it to be less usefull.