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Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 07:14:00 - [1] - Quote Seeing http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2428 and constantly getting this: bongpacks wrote: Neuts in C2 space are almost non-existant for the regular anomalies save for a couple frigates here and there and one neuting BS in data sanctuaries. The mag and radar sites have a bit more neuts. Passive drake can do this without a prop mod, do a hair more DPS and not die even if it manages to get capped out. I think that it is clear. Drakes are over powered. Scan the system? -> 5 M Salvaging and hacking? -> 100 M Living in the system? -> 1 500 M For everything else -> there is a Drake. Proposed changes Low Slots - 3 Med Slots - 6 High slots - 8 Launchers - 6 Turrets - 4 Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% shield resistance and 5% bonus kinetic damage of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles per level Medium Hybrid Blaster specialisation: 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to shield resistance per level. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 95	Posted - 2011.10.07 07:28:00 - [2] - Quote Wrong forum section dude, Developer blue bars only monitor Features and Ideas discussion thread. The blue bars here are only trollers lol. And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side.. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand.
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 07:42:00 - [3] - Quote Renan Ruivo wrote: And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side.. Actually, you can discuss something for general opinion before you take it to the serious forum. Quote: There is three ships and they neut, so the OP wants the whole ship nerfed No. It is the clearest indicator that brought this to my attention. What is the best battle cruiser by far than any other? Most damage? Some hurricanes, some harbingers, all good drakes because they only use one or two weapons of a set size. Biggest tank? Drakes. So they are top for damage, top for tank and can pull off a really good passive tank. That extra mid slot is exponentially better. (Tangent note: You can fit Large and X-large shield boosters to battle cruisers but have you ever tried to fit a Large armour repair to one? Duel rep? Oops there goes another low slot that the shield tanks don't have to pay!) CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Cypermethren Hardcore p0wnography Cascade Probable 18	Posted - 2011.10.07 07:47:00 - [4] - Quote Dear OP. Wormholes.. C2.... Wormholes go up to C6. Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get...... Let me give you a hint - you'll be in a pod before you can scream "oh ****" It may be that you've spent all you're eve-time in a C2 wormhole. There is alot, ALOT more in the eve universe, and the Drakes and other pretty ships in game arnt overpowered because you take a Ferrari to a go-cart race. A C2 is meant to be incredibly easy, as like the C1 - its designed to introduce you to wormholes and the mechanics of them. IE - new players that can only fly a frig or cruiser = the difficulty of a C1/C2 is PERFECT for them. If you need a challenge, move to a C3. Also, Blasters/Hybrids are Gallente. Drake is Caldari. And, you're mastercard/drake skit failed miserably, it makes no sense and is not teh funnies. Please try again.
non judgement Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance 35	Posted - 2011.10.07 07:59:00 - [5] - Quote Also the Ferox and Rokh are Gallente ships. They just look like they are Caldari.
Sassums Wormhole Exploration Crew Night Sky Alliance 14	Posted - 2011.10.07 08:00:00 - [6] - Quote Even in a C3 you really need to know what you are doing to solo some of the sleeper sites. Never forget you have other people that get connected to the hole you could be running sites in, wait for the opportune moment (such as when you finish killing the last sleeper) and come in and blast you. Yes Drakes have an amazing tank and I enjoy flying mine, but that doesn't mean they are indestructible or over powered.

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance 212	Posted - 2011.10.07 08:12:00 - [7] - Quote Renan Ruivo wrote: Wrong forum section dude, Developer blue bars only monitor Features and Ideas discussion thread. The blue bars here are only trollers lol. And Fallout.... totally not a troll.. don't want to get on her bad side.. I'll pretend I didn't see it. Still, this thread is more suitable for this forum section rather than EVE General Discussion. CCP Spitfire \| Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire

Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 08:14:00 - [8] - Quote Cypermethren wrote: Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get...... . Wrong Corp mate's ship - 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (I don't know why he isn't using Meta) - 1x Drone Link Augmentor - 2x Large Shield Extender II - 3x Shield Recharger - 1x Invulnerability Field II - 4x Shield Power Relay II - 3x Medium Core Defence Field Purger I - 5x Hobgoblin II As you can see a pretty horrible fit. He does Druze solo. I have just tried to help him in the C3 and had to keep warping in and out. I agree it should take a battle ship or a T3. He stayed in, didn't break a sweat and did way more damage than I did. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Gempei Siberian Khatru. 1	Posted - 2011.10.07 08:20:00 - [9] - Quote Do you fly a Drake? I guess no. Drake is not overpowered and passive tank has high price (using all rig slots, low slots and mid slots for tank, crap dps, high need for skills).
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 09:24:00 - [10] - Quote 1444 volley is nothing to be sniffed at. Here: Drake 1 & Drake 2 [Drake, Kill them all] Damage Control II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Medium Shield Booster II Target Painter II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 ................... [Drake, Passive standard] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 Cyclone [Cyclone, Alternative for: Cyclone C1/C2 WH] Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M E50 Prototype Energy Vampire E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hammerhead II x4 Drake 1 296 / 352 (vamp means it won't run dry) 443 DPS / 1355 volley (EFT) Drake 2 799 / 799 constant defence 225 DPS / 1444 volley (EFT) Cyclone 119 / 590 (tank sacrifice and has to pulse it, so can't sustain) 389 DPS / 579 Volley __________________________ So ... the first Drake does way more damage and the second drake has way more tank. The first Drake will probably have more tank over time than the Cyclone. P.S. Did you notice it was a Dread Guristas tank? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
cornholio508 Berserking Roid Beavers Damned Nation 1	Posted - 2011.10.07 11:37:00 - [11] - Quote Gempei wrote: Do you fly a Drake? I guess no. Drake is not overpowered and passive tank has high price (using all rig slots, low slots and mid slots for tank, crap dps, high need for skills). Sorry but yes DRAKES ARE OVERPOWERED . Every other races bc's are extremely weak when it come to comparing them with drakes . A drake can do just as much dps as other races battleships and can also if fitted properly have way more ehp than them as well . A friend in my alliance has a drake that does 1000dps per volley and a passive tank that gives him 113,000 ehp . My faction fitted navy apoc with a omni tank of 85% resists and 1000 dps per volley and a 90,000 ehp on the other hand still doesnt come close to the drake . Since amarr ships only have 2 damage types that is reduced depending on races we fight in missions . It takes less time to be efficient in a drake and a drake can solo lvl4 missions . However other races usually have to go t3 ships or go for battle ships since their battle cruisers are only useful in close quarters and pvp , and have serious capacitor issues along with bad tanks . To make things worse you dont even need to target anything . Get some fov ammo and away you go if you get jammed . The drake itself has an unfair advantage over every other races battle cruisers and is overpowered when compared to them .
Zagdul Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 46	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:05:00 - [12] - Quote I think Drakes are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game and that the other races need to have looking at. The hurricane is probably the closest in terms of equally balanced however the other two races are in dire need of looking at. Gallente need blasters to work properly and the Harbi could use a larger CPU grid. It's not Rocket Surgery
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 21	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:52:00 - [13] - Quote cornholio508 wrote: A drake can do just as much dps as other races battleships and can also if fitted properly have way more ehp than them as well . Uh, no. Quote: A friend in my alliance has a drake that does 1000dps per volley and a passive tank that gives him 113,000 ehp . My faction fitted navy apoc with a omni tank of 85% resists and 1000 dps per volley and a 90,000 ehp on the other hand still doesnt come close to the drake. Because we know your Apoc doesn't shoot faster than a Drake, right? tl;dr you are bad at this. Stop.
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 12:53:00 - [14] - Quote [Drake, Drake direct compare] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Hobgoblin II x5 Dread Gurista Drake, as close to the Cyclone as possible. 427 DPS / 485 OH 91 / 859 DPS defence 60 000 eHP EM - 80% Kn - 81% Th - 82% Ex - 84% CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 17	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:08:00 - [15] - Quote If there is going to be anything done involving a "New Drake" I suggest a T2 Drake (which for you smart enough to catch on, would also mean T2 Hurricane, Myrmidon and Harbinger). "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
Laechyd Eldgorn draketrain 9	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:18:00 - [16] - Quote great drake fits which can be permatanked with flycatcher good job keep it going dont lose the track there, you're definetly getting into it
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:30:00 - [17] - Quote Laechyd Eldgorn wrote: great drake fits Pity I won't use any of them. Last one in case someone wants to try it for me [Drake, Shield tank T2] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Domination Heat Dissipation Amplifier Domination Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Hobgoblin II x5 Even with the Invulnerability and the Dread Booster, I figure that it is a heck of a lot cheaper than a Tengu and not so far from the bottom to mid level ones. Stable at 98% Lasts 2 min on the booster 485 DPS OH 56 950 eHP 86 / 761 DPS defence with 960 OH 79 - 82% resists CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 94	Posted - 2011.10.07 13:50:00 - [18] - Quote Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury? Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 1	Posted - 2011.10.07 15:05:00 - [19] - Quote Get back on track. Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range. In a Drake load kinetick missels and win. +1 for nerf of drake (dont make this game Drake online)
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 85	Posted - 2011.10.07 15:22:00 - [20] - Quote So just to be clear, you want to balance the Drake (a Caldari ship) around PvE? Priorities man. Priorities.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2011.10.07 15:26:00 - [21] - Quote Adapt or die crybabys
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 15:59:00 - [22] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury? Armour damage. Sleepers only have armour and hull. No shields. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 96	Posted - 2011.10.07 16:08:00 - [23] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Ingvar Angst wrote: Why the Havoc Fury instead of Scourge Fury? Armour damage. Sleepers only have armour and hull. No shields. I'd have to see numbers... I thought they were omni-tanked regardless. You're saying it's worth giving up the kinetic bonuses Drakes have? Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Slammer's Republic 3	Posted - 2011.10.07 16:34:00 - [24] - Quote Jack Carrigan wrote: If there is going to be anything done involving a "New Drake" I suggest a T2 Drake (which for you smart enough to catch on, would also mean T2 Hurricane, Myrmidon and Harbinger). Those are called Command ships
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Slammer's Republic 3	Posted - 2011.10.07 16:41:00 - [25] - Quote Drakes are very good at pve, they're ok at pvp, if your battleship can't take one though you're doing something wrong
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 17:07:00 - [26] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Quote: Damage Types Sleepers do omni damage. Missiles do two types and their lasers do the other two types. This means you will need to set up your ship for balanced resists. Tentative Sleeper resists: Armor is 70/70/70/70 with Structure being 0/0/0/0. On the surface, I'd say you're better off keeping the bonuses you get for kinetic. I am not going to go into the technical on this with graphs and such. I don't know which is better for a Drake. For a Cyclone, the Havocs are better: Base Shield Damage - 76.8 Base Armour Damage - 172.8 Scourge Base shield Damage - 115.2 -(default for people as it is an all round missile but sleepers have no shields) Base Armour Damage - 144.0 CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 17:07:00 - [27] - Quote Ugh. double post tired. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Obsidiana White-Noise 8	Posted - 2011.10.07 19:25:00 - [28] - Quote Show me the numbers: Mr Peanut420 wrote: For September 2011 on evekill RankShipsKills 1Hurricane151381 2Drake117878 ... Reference: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=121909 I'm sorry, while I know the Drake is the second most flown ship after the Hulk, it is not the iWinButton. Since fewer Hurricanes are flown than Drakes, but the kills are higher, that really shows the power of each ship. The number of Drakes flown shows one thing: Caldari ships are still popular. Caldari space is the most populated. There are more Caldari than any other race. Changing the Drake will not change any of this. The Drake is fine. Go fly a Hurricane.
Jonah Gravenstein 25	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:11:00 - [29] - Quote Just a few things for the OP Yes a Drake can tank like you wouldn't believe, but you sacrifice firepower to do it, btw a shield Mrym can out tank the Drake. Volley damage is not DPS, standard cycle on a missile launcher is between approx 8 & 10 seconds, divide volley damage by rate of fire for DPS (the clue is in the acronym, Damage Per Second) The kinetic damage bonus on the Drake generally means that, unless whatever you're shooting at is specifically tanked against kinetic damage, you're better off sticking with scourge or scourge fury missiles. Sleepers are not specifically tanked against kinetic, in fact they don't give a toss what you throw at them because they have 70%+ resists across the board, ergo use the Drakes kinetic bonus to increase the damage output. A truly passive Drake wouldn't use an invul, if you're capped out and using an invul your resists drop considerably when it stops running, you still get a slight resist boost from an inactive invul but it's not a lot, somewhere in the region of 15% depending on skills. Hmmm @ Faction/officer fit Drakes, plenty of people love them, the loot is nearly as good as the tears --CATPAIN KIRK wrote: your not black - I've seen you in that video. I meant you write like an american but speak a somewhat difrent langauge - a bit like scotish or sumthing.--
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 8	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:12:00 - [30] - Quote Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 21	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:15:00 - [31] - Quote Quark Valhala wrote: Get back on track. Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game. Quote: A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range. Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 23	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:16:00 - [32] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest.
Jenshae Chiroptera 30	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:36:00 - [33] - Quote Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Korg Tronix Heretic Army 6	Posted - 2011.10.07 21:53:00 - [34] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: [Drake, Drake direct compare] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Co-Processor II Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Havoc Fury Heavy Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Hobgoblin II x5 Dread Gurista Drake, as close to the Cyclone as possible. 427 DPS / 485 OH 91 / 859 DPS defence 60 000 eHP EM - 80% Kn - 81% Th - 82% Ex - 84% What is it with you and posting ** fits for comparison against other ** fits
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 23	Posted - 2011.10.07 22:02:00 - [35] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Yeah. OP was already changed to add in, either nerf Drake or buff the other BCs Since you're here, careb to compare the drake to the myrm, cane and harby? Comparing it to a cyclone is meaningless. Tier one and tier two BCs are never going to be equal.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.07 22:56:00 - [36] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Quark Valhala wrote: Get back on track. Drake needs nerf. I Think its bull poo that a Drake can kite and hit 70k with heavy missiles and still have a bullshittank If you're being kited by a brick Drake, you are hilariously bad at this game. Quote: A cane maybe have more dps but if you fit 720 you will have bad tank and **** dps on long range. Bad tank? I always wonder where this comes from, since Arty Canes are entirely capable of getting the same 45-50K EHP that a typical Auto Cane has. And how big are drakes? And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range. Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve. They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender s++ they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets. Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 21	Posted - 2011.10.08 01:01:00 - [37] - Quote Quark Valhala wrote: And how big are drakes? And they dont need tracking they kill intes even at close range. Cant really document my next opinion/vante be wessel to, but they Are just to easy to fly pvp or pve. They do the same damege at 0.1 meters to 70. CCP should just fix defender s++ they work as good agianst misseles, like tracking disruptors does on all turrets. I'm not sure what you mean by "big"...? If you're talking about popularity, Hurricanes are more popular. If you're talking about physical size, it doesn't matter. Any inty can speed tank HMLs forever if it isn't webbed. A dualprop MSE or SAR frig can generally take a single web + HMLs and drones (assuming he's smart enough to kill them) long enough to let his DPS buddies catch up. If you want to act the dualprop frig's Grim Reaper, you need double webs to do it. Which takes your tank down to about a shield Hurricane's level. And if you want to play the "same damage from 0-70" card, drones do the same. Also, as far as missile counters go, you can smartbomb them. Quote: Drakes make nighthawks useless becuase they just does everything better for 50mill. NH does more DPS. NH does need more grid, but that's a NH problem, not a Drake problem.
Flyinghotpocket Ascetic Virtues 1	Posted - 2011.10.08 01:42:00 - [38] - Quote bongpacks wrote: Neuts in C2 space are almost non-existant for the regular anomalies save for a couple frigates here and there and one neuting BS in data sanctuaries. The mag and radar sites have a bit more neuts. Passive drake can do this without a prop mod, do a hair more DPS and not die even if it manages to get capped out. my active tanking harbinger was doing c2's easy peasy.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 19	Posted - 2011.10.08 17:01:00 - [39] - Quote Why would anyone think a drake is OP? A drake is just multi function. You can either pull out a heavy tank with crappy dps, or good dps with a crappy tank. If you balance it for tank and dps then the drake is just a typical ship with moderate tank and moderate dps. A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles. So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?" Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though. However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship. I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's. Notice i'm saying better OVERALL data. There can be a t1 with a better tank, or better dps, or better range, but there isn't a t1 that is even removetly equal with all 3 areas. Basically what I'm stating here is that tech 3 strategic cruisers are much better ships in tank, dps, and range than any battlecruiser, but yet, they're in a smaller class. The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank. IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another. Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.08 20:42:00 - [40] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Why would anyone think a drake is OP? A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles. So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?" Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though. However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship. I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's. The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank. IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another. Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time. At least they Are worth killing tengu= 500-1000mill Drake = 50-70mill.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2011.10.09 01:29:00 - [41] - Quote This is true, but a battlecruiser is at least somewhat easier to kill with a BS. BS doesn't stand a chance against a SC.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.09 18:46:00 - [42] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: This is true, but a battlecruiser is at least somewhat easier to kill with a BS. BS doesn't stand a chance against a SC. Again look at price. A tengu should **** a bs... Thou pretty sure if you put a machariel, vindicator, bahlgorn, widdow or almost any other fancy bs in tengu price class i Think its one less tengu. Or it flies away But now we Are talking about nerf Drake. So lets forget about tengu. (Any way tengus Are always cloaky nulified fagot space ships) And lets get argument for or against the Drake.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 8	Posted - 2011.10.09 19:49:00 - [43] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution.
Jenshae Chiroptera 31	Posted - 2011.10.09 20:46:00 - [44] - Quote There are only 8 battle cruisers. Take Minmatar for example, Cyclone and Hurricane. The Cyclone should be able to pull off a bigger tank than it does. Hurricane is fine as it is as a gun ship. However, it is possible to have a bigger tank on a Hurricane and more damage than a Cyclone. This doesn't seem right. For more of a sand box effect, we should have more options, not be herded into 3-4 options when we could have 8. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Alen Dee Sexy Society of Invention and Industry 0	Posted - 2011.10.10 02:24:00 - [45] - Quote is it possible to look this problem from a differt angle : the trouble isn't really about the fact that the drake is really a good ship. But the fact that the others BC are really weak and useless. Even with exellent resists an armor tanker is a lot more easy to kill than a shield tanker because shields are a lot more easier to recharge. We really have to think one more time to the benefits of the shield tanking, is it natural to be able to run a shield boost oversized?
Jenshae Chiroptera 32	Posted - 2011.10.10 04:01:00 - [46] - Quote Said that a few times, so have others and original post implies it. Now, what improvements do the others need? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 23	Posted - 2011.10.10 04:55:00 - [47] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution. How exactly does buffing the diemost, sac etc etc make the situation worse?
Cpt Fina The Tuskers 24	Posted - 2011.10.10 06:03:00 - [48] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution. How exactly does buffing the diemost, sac etc etc make the situation worse? If you introduce a few of ships that obsolete a wide range of other ships it is easier to tone down the few that screwed things up than make a complete overhaul of several shipclasses. By your logic we should boost each and every ship in eve in relation to the dramiel rather than nerf the dramiel itself.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 8	Posted - 2011.10.10 08:53:00 - [49] - Quote Yeah, it's just the "no nerfs under any circumstances whatsoever" argument. Which has two main problems - firstly, that it leads to incredibly difficult balancing changes (oh look, we have to boost every frigate in the game instead of nerfing the Dramiel), and secondly, there's no bloody difference between, in this case, leaving the Dramiel be and boosting every other ship, and simply nerfing the Dramiel. Done properly, it leaves the balance of power the same in both cases, while it's much easier to do the job badly if you're attempting to change several dozen ships instead of just one.
EvEa Deva State War Academy Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 11:18:00 - [50] - Quote Drake is fine, when a 30 man drake fleet ganks you its because they had 30 people shooting at you. And if you think the drake is over powered go do a lvl 4 in one solo, see you in 3 hours. To get any decent DPS out of it you have to kill your tank, and to get a good tank you have to kill your DPS sound balanced to me.
Arbiter Reborn Saiph Industries SRS. 5	Posted - 2011.10.10 11:41:00 - [51] - Quote drake needs a re balance but you are incredibly incoherent i think a few of the tier 2 bc's need a rebalance but as this is a drake thread::: if you look at the missile line of caldari ships they tend to have rof/ 5% damage to ken, and a range bonus. if you look at the caldari gun ships they tend to have range/damage and resist bonus. the drake sticks out as being a missile ship with a resist bonus, bar the nighthawk and a scorp navy. the mix of being able to do 750 dps with 80kehp and mwd scam web is overpowerd the fact it can hit out to lockrange with 80kehp with mwd point is overpowerd. the fact it can fit mwd, dual web, and still have 45k ehp without a dcII and still do 500 dps+ is overpowerd. all other bc have to seriously sacrifice for tank or takle to get anywhere near these numbers ferox is already a great ship with a strong tank and great damage with blasters, caldari dont need another powerful close range bc with a resist bonus. so get rid of the resist bonus. the drake would still be powerful without it. give it a range bonus and keep lock-range low. I think tier 2 bc were the most heavy handedly introduced ship class in the game, they almost completely overshadow commandships even before t3. i dont understand why they wernt properly ballanced before iteration or why cs wernt peoperly boosted afterwards
Mirei Jun Right to Rule THE UNTHINKABLES 1	Posted - 2011.10.10 13:23:00 - [52] - Quote To be the dissenting voice here: The Drake is not overpowered. It does low damage in comparison to other BCs, and is fairly slow. The trade off is good range and a sturdy tank. The popularity of the drake centers around its value in gangs of kiting ships, or as an anchor in small skirmishes with shield logistics. But these styles of fleet are well known now and easily countered. Players complaining about the drake are simply not creative enough and too lazy to think of the counters themselves, or even watch videos and/or killboards where the answer is being put right in front of them. There are plenty of ships in the game where balance is a serious issue. The drake on the other hand, is simply "working as intended". Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
Arbiter Reborn Saiph Industries SRS. 9	Posted - 2011.10.10 14:43:00 - [53] - Quote Mirei Jun wrote: To be the dissenting voice here: The Drake is not overpowered. It does low damage in comparison to other BCs, and is fairly slow. The trade off is good range and a sturdy tank. The popularity of the drake centers around its value in gangs of kiting ships, or as an anchor in small skirmishes with shield logistics. But these styles of fleet are well known now and easily countered. Players complaining about the drake are simply not creative enough and too lazy to think of the counters themselves, or even watch videos and/or killboards where the answer is being put right in front of them. There are plenty of ships in the game where balance is a serious issue. The drake on the other hand, is simply "working as intended". Don't try to fix what isn't broken. sorry but 750 dps with 80k ehp is pretty insane
Jenshae Chiroptera 32	Posted - 2011.10.10 15:49:00 - [54] - Quote Arbiter Reborn wrote: sorry but 750 dps with 80k ehp is pretty insane No it isn't! Lalalalala!!! Can't hear you! CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Nephilius Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co. 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:08:00 - [55] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. This. Stop with the nerfs and start buffing things. Nerfing is the ez button, a crappy solution to people QQing. Incidentally, I'm not even sure why this thread exists, the PvE aspect of the game is pretty self-contained and shouldn't affect others in such a manner. Make CQ and WiS an option, not a must.-á I don't play EvE for the toon spinning.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 105	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:17:00 - [56] - Quote The drake needs to remain a viable ship to run C2 sites and anoms. However, the other BCs should also be. I'm in the camp that the other BCs need a little lovin'. Why nerf the drake when you can boost the harby? Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Jenshae Chiroptera 32	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:18:00 - [57] - Quote Nephilius wrote: I'm not even sure why this thread exists, the PvE . Cookie cutting. Anti-sandbox effects. Market skewed. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Zyress Deaths Head Brigade Slammer's Republic 3	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:03:00 - [58] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Why would anyone think a drake is OP? A drake is just multi function. You can either pull out a heavy tank with crappy dps, or good dps with a crappy tank. If you balance it for tank and dps then the drake is just a typical ship with moderate tank and moderate dps. A Tengu can pull out over 600 dps with an over 600 omni tank, and that's with standard heavy missiles. It can pull out more dps with heavy assault missiles. So, someone might be questioning right now "why are you comparing the tengu and the drake?" Well, the drake is a battlecruiser that uses a passive shield tank, which most of us understand as being the heaviest tanks. It's dps suffers from this tank though. However, the tengu has much better range, much better dps, and a equal or better tank that is an ACTIVE tank. This is better overall data than just about any tech 1 battleship. I haven't even factored in sig radius. The tengu is a strategic CRUISER. It has the sig radius of a cruiser with better combined dps, tank, and range than most if not all tech 1 bs's. Notice i'm saying better OVERALL data. There can be a t1 with a better tank, or better dps, or better range, but there isn't a t1 that is even removetly equal with all 3 areas. Basically what I'm stating here is that tech 3 strategic cruisers are much better ships in tank, dps, and range than any battlecruiser, but yet, they're in a smaller class. The drake just so happens to be the closest one of the bc's in at least tank. IMO, all t1 battlecruisers need to be buffed in one way or another. Kinda rediculous that a cruiser size ship is able to fit more dps/tank/range all at the same time. What part of Tech 3 vs Tech 1 are you missing? The Tengu costs about 10 times as much as your tech 1 Battleship too.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 9	Posted - 2011.10.10 20:26:00 - [59] - Quote Nephilius wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Here's a better idea. use the tier 2 BCs as a baseline and buff the rest. This. Stop with the boosts and start nerfing things. Boosting is the ez button, a crappy solution to people QQing. I fixed your post. Honestly, it's far more accurate like this. Perpetual boosts and the subsequent cancer of power-creep occur because people are too scared of hurting people's feelings to be brave enough to make the right decision. Far easier to boost things and let the idiots think that boosting one ship isn't a relative nerf to all the rest.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 15	Posted - 2011.10.10 20:57:00 - [60] - Quote Zyress wrote: Drakes are very good at pve, they're ok at pvp, if your battleship can't take one though you're doing something wrong like using hybrids Fixed 4U
Gempei Siberian Khatru. 2	Posted - 2011.10.10 21:15:00 - [61] - Quote Quark Valhala wrote: In a Drake load kinetick missels and win. load kinetic resist and you win
Ganthrithor GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2011.10.10 21:47:00 - [62] - Quote Quote: I think Drakes are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game lol fits 85k ehp passive tank does 550 dps to 75km slowboats back to gates every time it encounters a gang of less than 10 people is a drake
Gempei Siberian Khatru. 2	Posted - 2011.10.10 22:05:00 - [63] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: fits 85k ehp passive tank does 550 dps to 75km with signature radius 500m
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 23	Posted - 2011.10.11 02:13:00 - [64] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: No, that's a worse idea. Tier 2 BCs already obsolete the Deimos, Sacrilege and all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and you want to make this situation worse? All that does is remove the "tier 2" from "tier 2 battlecruisers Online". Tier 2 battlecruisers are the problem, not the solution. There is always going to be a sharp divide between people who want to PvP on the cheap but still an effective ship (mostly casuals) and those who want isk/SP to have a greater effect on performance. Quote: fits 85k ehp passive tank does 550 dps to 75km slowboats back to gates every time it encounters a gang of less than 10 people is a drake If a slowboating Drake makes it back to gate, so would a Hurricane with 5x the speed. IOW, you and your gang are terrible.
Ganthrithor GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2011.10.11 04:39:00 - [65] - Quote The point is that Drakes are clearly the most imbalanced BC in the game. In every other instance you're forced to choose between range, dps, and tank (pick any two) when you go to fit your BC. The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. Death2drakes.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.11 05:16:00 - [66] - Quote I would like to here a dev explain about the ship (drake), and if they thinks its stats Are fair compared to the other races? ( thou the forum gods rarely answer thier minions )
Beckett Firesnake Confrerie des ombres Confrerie de la Lumiere Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.10.11 05:39:00 - [67] - Quote I made a lot of C3 sleepers with two Drakes. I made much ISK. I do not know if another T1 BC can make lvl4 mission as easily than a drake. Because I did not understand the Resistance system, I did not see how a BattleShip could be better than a Drake for a while. I think all races should have a Drake like ship. Not enough firepower to overcome a BS but strong enough to tank a lvl4 mission. So you could begin lvl4 missions while you up your BS skills .
Elrianmk2 Dead Space Alpha Shadow of xXDEATHXx 0	Posted - 2011.10.11 15:29:00 - [68] - Quote Funny i found that the Drake outperformed my Mega, then i remembered, Devs don't love Gallente. On topic though, Drakes are somewhat overpowered, i tend to run anoms in 0.0 in a pvp fit Drake, knowing if someone comes into system i can head over assist with tackle and take down without having to worry about switching out modules or ships, any other race, nah its not going happen unless you want the one way pod express.
Shin Dari The Vendunari Warped Aggression 3	Posted - 2011.10.11 19:30:00 - [69] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: The point is that Drakes are clearly the most imbalanced BC in the game. In every other instance you're forced to choose between range, dps, and tank (pick any two) when you go to fit your BC. The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. Death2drakes. With the Drake is Tank or DPS and most people just fit it with tank.
Jenshae Chiroptera 32	Posted - 2011.10.11 20:16:00 - [70] - Quote Shin Dari wrote: Ganthrithor wrote: The point is that Drakes are clearly the most imbalanced BC in the game. In every other instance you're forced to choose between range, dps, and tank (pick any two) when you go to fit your BC. The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. Death2drakes. With the Drake is Tank or DPS and most people just fit it with tank. I don't fly a Drake myself but with an all T2 set up and some cheap implants - resistance tanking, I make a fit with two Ballistic Controls T2, 7x Heavy Launchers T2 64 541 eHP 225 sustained, 522 re-enforced defences per second 548 DPS (not over heated) 2845 per volley Having no faction mods and being a T1 ship for that little ISK - is there any ship with that much tank and DPS? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.11 20:40:00 - [71] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Shin Dari wrote: Ganthrithor wrote: The point is that Drakes are clearly the most imbalanced BC in the game. In every other instance you're forced to choose between range, dps, and tank (pick any two) when you go to fit your BC. The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. Death2drakes. With the Drake is Tank or DPS and most people just fit it with tank. I don't fly a Drake myself but with an all T2 set up and some cheap implants - resistance tanking, I make a fit with two Ballistic Controls T2, 7x Heavy Launchers T2 64 541 eHP 225 sustained, 522 re-enforced defences per second 548 DPS (not over heated) 2845 per volley Having no faction mods and being a T1 ship for that little ISK - is there any ship with that much tank and DPS? And range. Well tbh take a launcher slot off put in 2 turret hard points. Maybe remove a med or low slot. Drake fixed . (i Think)
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 24	Posted - 2011.10.12 03:51:00 - [72] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. You're kidding, right?
Dray Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 2	Posted - 2011.10.12 10:34:00 - [73] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: cornholio508 wrote: A drake can do just as much dps as other races battleships and can also if fitted properly have way more ehp than them as well . Uh, no. Quote: A friend in my alliance has a drake that does 1000dps per volley and a passive tank that gives him 113,000 ehp . My faction fitted navy apoc with a omni tank of 85% resists and 1000 dps per volley and a 90,000 ehp on the other hand still doesnt come close to the drake. Because we know your Apoc doesn't shoot faster than a Drake, right? tl;dr you are bad at this. Stop. Nah let him post, I'm enjoying them, admittedly for all the wrong reasons, but hey comedy comes in many forms.....
Dray Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED 2	Posted - 2011.10.12 10:40:00 - [74] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: Quote: I think Drakes are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game lol fits 85k ehp passive tank does 550 dps to 75km (missile dps and less if it's not scourge) slowboats back to gates every time it encounters a gang of less than 10 people (who can't web or bump) is a drake (laughing at the incompetent gang) Fixed.
Akara Ito Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 22	Posted - 2011.10.12 15:03:00 - [75] - Quote How about just taking that kinetic bonus and replacing it with range ? Tank plus range would be a classic caldari setup and with reduced damage the ++ber ehp arent that much of a problem anymore. Zagdul wrote: [...]and the Harbi could use a larger CPU grid. YES! 30 CPU more would be great and bring it more in line with the Hurricane.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 10	Posted - 2011.10.12 16:11:00 - [76] - Quote Akara Ito wrote: How about just taking that kinetic bonus and replacing it with range ? That makes it even more like a big Caracal. The game already has a fundamental problem with tier 2 battlecruisers obsoleting all T1 cruisers that aren't the Blackbird. Giving the Drake a missile velocity bonus puts it solidly into the Caracal's tiny remaining niche.
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.12 18:50:00 - [77] - Quote I am more in the camp of boosting the other BCs than ever. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Heribeck Weathers The Skunkworks 0	Posted - 2011.10.12 20:01:00 - [78] - Quote make the raven worth taking into pvp and we can talk about nerfing the drake. oh and give the ferox a diferant skill other than shield resists so its not so much of the drakes little brother
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.13 10:26:00 - [79] - Quote Sure! Coming right up! P.S. I have found that they ship "bonus" of shield resistance or armour tends to only bring it up to average once it is fully trained. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
bongpacks Mudbug Acquisition Of Empire 7	Posted - 2011.10.14 04:31:00 - [80] - Quote So this guy posts a fail fit cyclone for running C2 anomalies on battleclinic and i get quoted on eve-o as saying a drake can do it better, because most anything is better than this monstrosity: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/56446-Cyclone-C1-C2-WH.html Gunboats suck for w-space PVE and really the reason boils down to the fact they have to pull optimal range on every target they engage. That's a lot of time consuming flying around while a drake can just sit still and blow stuff up. Not to mention they struggle with frigate sized rats without using drones, and we all know what sleepers do to drones. There's simply no reason to use anything other than a drake for w-space PVE in the lower level holes when the ship you're using does drake-ish DPS and on top of it has to fly around needlessly just to apply that low DPS. Is the drake overpowered, heck no I wish it was. To get that fabled uber tank you guys keep talking about you'd have the DPS of a fail fit assault frigate. If you wanted to get 700+ DPS from a drake you'd have to gimp the tank with missile rigs so bad a fail fit assault frigate could kill it. OK yes of course the drake is superior for PVE compared to any of it's counterparts, but that can be said of most missile boats because of the minimum of skill required to simply press a button and watch stuff blow up instead of actually having to fly your ship to maintain optimal range ect. Should there be F.O.F type ammo for all types of weapon systems? I think so but really how often do you see anyone use F.O.F missiles? The drake as far as PVP is concerned is slow as hell, has crap capacitor and lackluster DPS not to mention the HUGE AS HELL sig radius is has without even cycling the MWD. I think it's pretty well balanced for the amount of tank vs. gank it has compared to it's counterparts. Maybe try using EM damage against the next drake you PVP against and you might not think the tank is so god-like. So to conclude this already long post, the drake is only superior at PVE, at everything else it's just mediocre.
Rek Seven Zandathorn Industries 4	Posted - 2011.10.14 11:26:00 - [81] - Quote I'd prefer if other ships got a boost instead of ccp nerfing the **** out of things that people have trained for.
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.14 13:26:00 - [82] - Quote bongpacks wrote: Is the drake overpowered, heck no I wish it was. To get that fabled uber tank you guys keep talking about you'd have the DPS of a fail fit assault frigate. Resists tank: 522 reinforced defence 64 541 eHP 548 DPS (not ever heated) This is by a fail fitter. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.14 16:15:00 - [83] - Quote "Fail fit" Cyclone killed two C2 Sleeper battleships (one of them neuting) without having to warp out in just under nine minutes with T1 guns and drones. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Tyme Xandr State Protectorate Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.14 17:01:00 - [84] - Quote After reading through this thread there are a few things that just dont make sense. #1) Kinetic damage is an anti armor damage type. Shields have high kinetic resistance, armor doesnt. #2) A HAC is for use against other cruisers and under, not battlecruisers. Not saying HACs cant kill Battlecruisers, but that wasnt their intended use. #3) Tier 1 BC's are all broken. Prophecy is a tank with little other ability, Cyclone is a PVE ship that cant fit itself correctly. Ferox is a joke, Brutix is a glass cannon. #4) Tier 2 BC's are all specialized. Drake is high tank, low/mid DPS PVE or PVP support ship (depending on HAL, HL). Hurricane is high DPS, mid tank PVP boat (guns dont need cap, highest base speed), Harb is a high DPS, low tank, never reload PVP ship. And Myrm is a drone boat. #5) Caldari ships are the PVE ships of EVE. Drake, Raven, Golem, and Tengu are pretty much prefered over all other ships cept the Mach and sometimes the Nightmare depending on the situation/area. Guess what happens most the time in WHs? PVE. Drake has many great points about it, but I've killed them with a Zealot. I've killed them with a Maelstrom. I've killed them with a Brutix. I've also had a lot of fun running around in drake fleets alpha launching enemies as well. My best suggestion to you is to fly a drake before you go crazy. Sure it may do well when your fighting NPCs, but try playing against some real ships sometime. Sure you wont be primaried ... but ... just stick around instead of running away when your main DPS is taken down.
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.14 17:40:00 - [85] - Quote Tyme Xandr wrote: #3) Tier 1 BC's are all broken. Prophecy is a tank with little other ability, Cyclone is a PVE ship that cant fit itself correctly. Ferox is a joke, Brutix is a glass cannon. . That is the main problem and reason for this thread I think. I PvP in another Cyclone too. Love it when they shoot me, the only ship in the fleet with a good rep / boost and then they start going down while I tank them. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Tyme Xandr State Protectorate Caldari State 3	Posted - 2011.10.14 17:47:00 - [86] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Tyme Xandr wrote: #3) Tier 1 BC's are all broken. Prophecy is a tank with little other ability, Cyclone is a PVE ship that cant fit itself correctly. Ferox is a joke, Brutix is a glass cannon. . That is the main problem and reason for this thread I think. I PvP in another Cyclone too. Love it when they shoot me, the only ship in the fleet with a good rep / boost and then they start going down while I tank them. And I can understand an outcry to 'fix' tier 1 BC's, but I don't think the drake should be changed (in accordance to the 'New Drake' title). The other battlecruisers should be tweaked in their own ways, but none of them should be similar at all. The Harby and Myrm need tweaks, the cane and drake dont. The tier one BCs besides the brutix definitely need some looking into as well. But this applies to tier 1 and 2 frigates and some of the cruisers as well. With CCPs new focus on 'fixing EVE' I hope they remember to take a hard look at the ships currently in game. I dont mind specializing and I think its great when ships do that, but it should be equal across the board in their different specialties. That might not make sense at first glance but lets all just think about that for a sec. Currently each race has a handful of ships that are usually always flown while the others are ignored ... shouldn't we at least make the ignored viable in some aspect?
Jenshae Chiroptera 33	Posted - 2011.10.14 21:12:00 - [87] - Quote Tyme Xandr wrote: ... shouldn't we at least make the ignored viable in some aspect? I totally agree but do feel this thread's thought process leading from nerfing a Drake to buffing the others is important when and particularly "why" they are being considered for improvements. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.16 13:38:00 - [88] - Quote Quote: Alli member > Woo! I can officially fly a Tengu! \o/ Jenshae Chiroptera > You were Draking it in a C4? o.O Alli member > I was Jenshae Chiroptera > Warp in - warp out? Alli member > With two repping-tengus? I haven't warped out more than twice in my carreer in here Why would anyone want a Drake in a C4? This is a complete mystery to me. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 11	Posted - 2011.10.16 15:01:00 - [89] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: I'd prefer if other ships got a boost instead of ccp nerfing the ** out of things that people have trained for. Since balance is relative, not absolute, boosting a competing ship is "nerfing the ** out of things that people have trained for".
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 9	Posted - 2011.10.16 15:52:00 - [90] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Rek Seven wrote: I'd prefer if other ships got a boost instead of ccp nerfing the ** out of things that people have trained for. Since balance is relative, not absolute, boosting a competing ship is "nerfing the ** out of things that people have trained for". How dare you use logic at EVE forums? 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2011.10.16 15:59:00 - [91] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: The point is that Drakes are clearly the most imbalanced BC in the game. In every other instance you're forced to choose between range, dps, and tank (pick any two) when you go to fit your BC. The Drake gets them all-- the range of a LR glass-cannon turret BC, the DPS of a closerange turret BC, and the tank of a battleship. Its a completely ridiculous ship, and anyone who argues otherwise is an illogical ******. Death2drakes. Replace your canes for Drakes, problem solved.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.16 16:00:00 - [92] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Since balance is relative, not absolute, boosting a competing ship is "nerfing the **** out of things that people have trained for". It can actually be worked out. Devs make a cookie cutter fit then calculate the damage it can sustain. Same with the damage it can deal. Then you just add more damage to one and reduce the damage it can sustain equally. That way the, the damage dealer and the tank will be evenly matched. Simple calculation of rates based off optimums. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2011.10.16 16:31:00 - [93] - Quote Tyme Xandr wrote: After reading through this thread there are a few things that just dont make sense. #1) Kinetic damage is an anti armor damage type. Shields have high kinetic resistance, armor doesnt. #2) A HAC is for use against other cruisers and under, not battlecruisers. Not saying HACs cant kill Battlecruisers, but that wasnt their intended use. #3) Tier 1 BC's are all broken. Prophecy is a tank with little other ability, Cyclone is a PVE ship that cant fit itself correctly. Ferox is a joke, Brutix is a glass cannon. #4) Tier 2 BC's are all specialized. Drake is high tank, low/mid DPS PVE or PVP support ship (depending on HAL, HL). Hurricane is high DPS, mid tank PVP boat (guns dont need cap, highest base speed), Harb is a high DPS, low tank, never reload PVP ship. And Myrm is a drone boat. #5) Caldari ships are the PVE ships of EVE. Drake, Raven, Golem, and Tengu are pretty much prefered over all other ships cept the Mach and sometimes the Nightmare depending on the situation/area. Guess what happens most the time in WHs? PVE. Drake has many great points about it, but I've killed them with a Zealot. I've killed them with a Maelstrom. I've killed them with a Brutix. I've also had a lot of fun running around in drake fleets alpha launching enemies as well. My best suggestion to you is to fly a drake before you go crazy. Sure it may do well when your fighting NPCs, but try playing against some real ships sometime. Sure you wont be primaried ... but ... just stick around instead of running away when your main DPS is taken down. 1- false, if you armor tank and your biggest hole is KIN then it's a fail fit 2-Who ever said HAC's are not ment to kill BC's? 3- Tiers stuff is all broken, some people have already made some interesting threads about it indeed, unfortunately CCP never answered or given any point of view about it other than "it's not useless" ... so lets continue it's awesome game design. 4-ok 5- wrong, caldari ships are not more pve than pvp but you just named some ships SHIELD tanking so I'll take that route. When even armor supposed ships are better shield tanking don't you think there's clearly some problem? -Armor tanking fitting requirements -Armor tanking slots layout -Armor tanking fitting mods -Armor tanking mods/rigs penalty -DPS mods being low slots Shield advantages over armor? -all of them from tanking to dps, hell even shield vindicators are known to be better than armor versions, shield domis, shield brutix and this is just for gallente.
Keel Wylder Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.10.16 20:07:00 - [94] - Quote I think you guys are missing the biggest point on why these ships are inferior to the drake. CAPACITOR and cap recharge time. followed by damage. Increase both of these plus train some core skills and you will find they are different ships. As for damage the 2 ships that can fit medium drones are ok but the rest need a bump. A increase in the rate of fire should fix this that added to the capacitor increase would make a big difference.
Quark Valhala Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED 2	Posted - 2011.10.16 20:12:00 - [95] - Quote Got another thought. Maybe just nerf the heavy missle range. To kite ships should be minmatars thing, they have **** damage on range. So my questions goes why should a Drake have stupid efhp with a nano, go + 1000ms And shot to 75km with around 500.dps when their weapons kinda is buffed when gettin a fight with mwd on (high sigs)
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.16 23:56:00 - [96] - Quote Armour repairs, the Large should be X-Large and there needs to be a new "Large" that a BC can fit with the same ease that they can fit Large Shield Boosters. Then damage mods for medium slots. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Spr09 Purdue Engineering and Technology Talocan United 3	Posted - 2011.10.17 03:30:00 - [97] - Quote imo the caldari battlecruisers are the only ones that are balanced. cycleon, brutix, and prophecy need love man! give the three extra turret hardpoints, 5 on a ship that's supposed to be a dps boat is really stupid.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 15	Posted - 2011.10.17 08:40:00 - [98] - Quote The tier 1 BCs are fine. The reason that no-one flies them is solely because of the existence of the tier 2 BCs. Consider these fits against their main prey of T1 cruisers: The Prophecy can do 466 DPS with 70k EHP. The Cyclone can do 502 DPS with 454 DPS tanked. The Brutix can do 860 DPS with 44k EHP in full-tackle shield buffer mode, or 600 DPS with 290 DPS tanked (doesn't cap out instantly like the Cyclone though). The Ferox can do 180 DPS at 140 km with 34k EHP, or 580 DPS with 57k EHP. All of these ships are still very capable against their intended targets of T1 cruisers. The only reason that they're not used is because they're obsoleted by the tier 2s.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.17 11:10:00 - [99] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: All of these ships are still very capable against their intended targets of T1 cruisers. The only reason that they're not used is because they're obsoleted by the tier 2s. Okay, so I am saying, let us break down that Tier 1 vs Tier 2 barrier. Now do you recommend a nerf for the T2s or a buff for the T1s? Both? Meet them half way? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Tyme Xandr State Protectorate Caldari State 5	Posted - 2011.10.17 16:55:00 - [100] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Gypsio III wrote: All of these ships are still very capable against their intended targets of T1 cruisers. The only reason that they're not used is because they're obsoleted by the tier 2s. Okay, so I am saying, let us break down that Tier 1 vs Tier 2 barrier. Now do you recommend a nerf for the T2s or a buff for the T1s? Both? Meet them half way? No reason to nerf the current tier 2 BC's, we should work to bring the tier 1 BCs in line with them. Allowing for a different approach in each would be nice that compliments each other. For instance Drake is fleet missile boat, ferox should be gank blaster boat - not the garbage whatever the hell it tries to be currently.
Kiran Knights of Azrael 3	Posted - 2011.10.17 18:04:00 - [101] - Quote humm I can fit a pretty mean cyclone that can do 600 dps with a decent tank. As for the drake over powered? Its a flying brick crap damage, crap speed, yes its tank is awesome but it can still die easy. I use to run forlorn sites in Catch in a cyclone. You just need to know how to fit it.
Kyneska State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.10.17 19:36:00 - [102] - Quote drake is op so what. just train for it. apart from the drake this game pratically just revolves around minmatar.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 15	Posted - 2011.10.17 21:28:00 - [103] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Gypsio III wrote: All of these ships are still very capable against their intended targets of T1 cruisers. The only reason that they're not used is because they're obsoleted by the tier 2s. Okay, so I am saying, let us break down that Tier 1 vs Tier 2 barrier. Now do you recommend a nerf for the T2s or a buff for the T1s? Both? Meet them half way? I would advise nerfing the tier 2s, rather than buffing the tier 1s. The reason for this is to increase the viability of T1 cruisers that aren't the Blackbird, and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege, all of which are close to worthless in a world where tier 2 BCs exist. Currently, the tier 2 BCs obsolete all cruisers that aren't the Blackbird. The Hurricane can fit to be faster and more agile, with more, better-tracking, longer-ranged DPS, and more EHP, than a Rupture. A Drake with 5 TDs is a better TD platform than an Arbitrator, with more EHP and much more DPS. With tier 2 BCs basically being better than cruisers at being cruisers, the reasons for flying a non-Blackbird cruiser can basically be summed up "disguising your own strength" - which acknowledges that you're flying a bad ship, and cost - and that cost difference is not nearly enough to justify the increase in performance from cruiser to BC. Nerfing the tier 2s will move the game away from "battlecruiser spam everywhere" (Drakes and Hurricanes, really), increasing the range of ships seen in space and the variety of the resultant combat, as some current BC pilots will move away to BS and to cruisers. It will help new players, by making a cheaper, less SP-intensive class (cruisers) more viable. If CCP chooses to go down the other route, of boosting the tier 1s, we simply engrain the current problems even further. The Deimos will still be worthless after the hybrid fix, as it competes with the Brutix. The Sacrilege will still largely be obsoleted by the Drake. T1 cruisers will become even less useful. Less variety means fewer tactics available. I don't think "Battlecruisers-Online" is good for the game. But, I'm under no illusions here. CCP, in its new self-flagellation mode, will not nerf the most popular ship class in the game. But there's a reason why they're so popular.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 00:33:00 - [104] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: But, I'm under no illusions here. CCP, in its new self-flagellation mode, will not nerf the most popular ship class in the game. But there's a reason why they're so popular. That was my first conclusion, which started this thread. The trouble with nerfing BCs is that they are really the only cheap ship that you can gang against T3s. I won't even talk about battl ships, they **** me off. I prefer a Cyclone to a Hurricane because for some reason, I get primaried almost every time, with a Large or X-Large booster, I can tank a gang or small fleet. Hurricane? I would be lucky to get more than 560 tank and sustained is better for PVE not the shortness of gang battles. However, I do think that the Cyclone could do with another slot, either a mid for some prop mod or scrambler or a low slot for a little extra damage. I think that the basic T1 cruisers for example, should become more heavy in their roles. For example, I can only fit 3 Mercoxit turrets to a Scythe but I can fit six to a Hurricane. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 00:51:00 - [105] - Quote Kiran wrote: humm I can fit a pretty mean cyclone that can do 600 dps with a decent tank. How decent is that tank? I think this ship tells you the problems with a Cyclone. All skills at V and look what it needs in rigs and lows? Why does it need run with those mediums? Size of the guns? Quote: [Cyclone, DPS] Damage Control II Co-Processor II Capacitor Flux Coil II Gyrostabilizer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I 'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners Medium F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Torrent Assault Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Torrent Assault Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Torrent Assault Missile Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I Hammerhead II x4 489 DPS with drones 419 / 500 tank needs power grid implants +1% 32K eHP --------- "Over powered, that is what this next one is called ------------- [Cyclone, Cyclone: goddamn overpowered peice of spaceshit] Pneumatic Stabilization Actuator I Quantum Co-Processor I F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Booster II 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 422 DPS 217 / 265 tank 33K eHP "lol wut?" CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 16	Posted - 2011.10.18 08:10:00 - [106] - Quote What the hell are those Cyclone fits? Only one appears to be a PVP fit anyway: Quote: [Cyclone, Cyclone: goddamn overpowered peice of spaceshit] Pneumatic Stabilization Actuator I Quantum Co-Processor I F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Booster II 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 220mm Medium Gallium I Machine Gun, EMP M 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 422 DPS 217 / 265 tank 33K eHP "lol wut?" Try this: [Cyclone, New Setup 1] Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin II x2 Hammerhead II x3 556 DPS, 220/454 DPS tanked. Overloading the Invuln takes you to 496 DPS tanked.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 10:08:00 - [107] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: I don't think "Battlecruisers-Online" is good for the game. I think it's good for the game that you have a shipclass that can act as a SP equalizer, is relatively cheap and tanky enough to survive well into two or three stupid mistakes before dying in a fire. If you want to fly a Sacri or Deimos and not die in a Scourge and EMP-fueled fire, you should perhaps learn to play EVE Online.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 11:03:00 - [108] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Gypsio III wrote: I don't think "Battlecruisers-Online" is good for the game. Scourge and EMP-fueled fire, . Omni, omni, omni! Gypsio - thanks btw CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 9	Posted - 2011.10.18 12:53:00 - [109] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Gypsio III wrote: I don't think "Battlecruisers-Online" is good for the game. I think it's good for the game that you have a shipclass that can act as a SP equalizer, is relatively cheap and tanky enough to survive well into two or three stupid mistakes before dying in a fire. Sounds like tech3 cruisers. If anything, can we please have the same SP equalizer at supercapital class, too? 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 16	Posted - 2011.10.18 13:35:00 - [110] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Gypsio III wrote: I don't think "Battlecruisers-Online" is good for the game. I think it's good for the game that you have a shipclass that can act as a SP equalizer, is relatively cheap and tanky enough to survive well into two or three stupid mistakes before dying in a fire. If you want to fly a Sacri or Deimos and not die in a Scourge and EMP-fueled fire, you should perhaps learn to play EVE Online. Agreed, but I just feel that cruisers would be better for that role. You could argue that cruisers aren't "tanky enough", but I might say that the reason that they aren't tanky enough is because they exist in a world full of tier 2 BCs.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 15:00:00 - [111] - Quote Battle cruisers and command ships. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 35	Posted - 2011.10.18 15:33:00 - [112] - Quote Fon Revedhort wrote: Sounds like tech3 cruisers. If anything, can we please have the same SP equalizer at supercapital class, too? I doubt very many, other than Pixel UA, can sustain the consistent loss of T3s, day in, day out. I'm not sure why you direct the supercap comment at me; I don't own a supercap, I'm not in a supercap-heavy alliance and the only gangs that had supercaps were using them to kill station hugging carriers (working as intended!). Winter is coming, etc. and I'll be glad when it's here, because I'm sure there will be people who didn't get the memo and continue to be silly with very expensive ships. Also, totally unrelated to this: how do you square a dislike for Drakes with being in DarkSide? Just curious. Gypsio III wrote: Agreed, but I just feel that cruisers would be better for that role. You could argue that cruisers aren't "tanky enough", but I might say that the reason that they aren't tanky enough is because they exist in a world full of tier 2 BCs. The last time someone threw a T1 cruiser gang against one of BL's HAC gangs, we were literally dropping targets before they could be called, popping them one every 3 seconds (it was a very short fight). The existence of tier 2 BCs doesn't affect my Munnin's alpha; Tier 2 BCs aren't the reason cruisers get stomped, it's because cruisers are actually bad ships. And frankly, I don't want the isk bar raised on being effective in PvP; people are risk-averse enough (with tier 2 BCs) as-is. I'd hate to see how lame they get or how little they undock when the cheapest decent ship costs 150M to buy and fit, with a crap insurance payout to compensate.
Insane Randomness Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.10.18 17:24:00 - [113] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Cypermethren wrote: Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get...... . Wrong Corp mate's ship - 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (I don't know why he isn't using Meta) - 1x Drone Link Augmentor - 2x Large Shield Extender II - 3x Shield Recharger - 1x Invulnerability Field II - 4x Shield Power Relay II - 3x Medium Core Defence Field Purger I - 5x Hobgoblin II As you can see a pretty horrible fit. He does Druze solo. I have just tried to help him in the C3 and had to keep warping in and out. I agree it should take a battle ship or a T3. He stayed in, didn't break a sweat and did way more damage than I did. just so you know, thats a 650 DPS passive tank, it should be able to run C3's. And you don't know why he's not using meta? Why would he, he's got the skills for T2 which are faster, hold more missiles, so you don't need ot reload all the time, and you can use the uber epic T2 missiles, which the precision missiles can hit frigs perfectly, or nye on close to perfect, and the heavy damage dealers mean way more firepower on the larger targets. This dude is doing the drake right. Still prefer the hurricane much more. Fastest damn thing I've ever known for it's size.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 16	Posted - 2011.10.18 17:40:00 - [114] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Tier 2 BCs aren't the reason cruisers get stomped, it's because cruisers are actually bad ships. No, this doesn't make sense. Balance is relative, not absolute. If T1 cruisers are bad, which they are, then they are bad relative to something else; the existence of another ship class makes them bad. That "something else" is, in this case, the other ships that are used in the same roles as cruisers. You mention HACs, but HACs aren't really used in the same roles as cruisers. Your average cruiser is (was?) set up for a close-range fight, while your typical HAC is set up to operate at considerably greater range. Well, I'm assuming that you weren't flying a gang of autoMuninns here, right? In any case, the price difference between cruiser and HAC is far greater than between cruiser and BC, and while price isn't a primary balance factor, nor can it be ignored. Instead, the class that is used in the same role as cruisers is battlecruisers. Both cruisers and BCs are generally used as cheap, disposable, close-ish range general-purpose PVP ships. The problem is that the BCs are so much better than cruisers in every field, have taken every role that cruisers had, even in terms of mobility and tracking, that cruisers are now dismissed as "bad" in an absolute sense, even though absolute badness is a logical impossibility. Anyway, presumably you would advocate boosting tier 1 BCs to tier 2 levels, on the basis that T1 BCs aren't balanced or useful in a world where the tier 2s exist. That's a perfectly respectable opinion - but what would you do to make cruisers balanced and useful? Boost them all too? It wouldn't be enough to just do Tiericide on cruisers, the class need significant all-round help to give them a role in a world where BCs exist. But this would make destroyers and frigates less viable...
Andy Landen Cryptonym Sleepers Moon Warriors 13	Posted - 2011.10.18 19:42:00 - [115] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Nerf the Drake. Nerf the Hurricane. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. They're too common. They obsolete tier 1 BCs, cruisers and close-range HACs like the Deimos and Sacrilege. Nerf them to tier 1 levels and let's get some variety back, rather than just another tier 2 BC blob. Even the trolls come up. LOL. The Drake is fine. It is only OP because it is easy to figure out how to fit well, easy to fly, and easy to overcome server lag. The other ships require some careful thought about fitting well, but they can be fit very well. Now that Time Dilation is on its way, the active tank will stand as good a chance through server lag as the passive one, hps for hps. In a sense, CCP has correctly chosen TiDi as a way to balance all other ships with passive tankers and make pvp battles fair again.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 9	Posted - 2011.10.18 19:47:00 - [116] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: Also, totally unrelated to this: how do you square a dislike for Drakes with being in DarkSide? Just curious. I treated fugly drakes as OP long before I joined [DarkSide.] and see no reason why would I change my mind upon joining. Moreover - I for one do use Machariel yet this doesn't prevent me from saying it's OP. I hope that helps. Quote: Even the trolls come up. LOL. The Drake is fine. It is only OP because it is easy to figure out how to fit well, easy to fly, and easy to overcome server lag. The other ships require some careful thought about fitting well, but they can be fit very well. lol 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.18 21:34:00 - [117] - Quote Insane Randomness wrote: Corp mate's ship - 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (I don't know why he isn't using Meta) <----- T1 not Meta - 1x Drone Link Augmentor - 2x Large Shield Extender II - 3x Shield Recharger <----- T1 not Meta - 1x Invulnerability Field II - 4x Shield Power Relay II - 3x Medium Core Defence Field Purger I - 5x Hobgoblin II just so you know, thats a 650 DPS passive tank, it should be able to run C3's. And you don't know why he's not using meta? Why would he, he's got the skills for T2 which .... CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 39	Posted - 2011.10.19 01:29:00 - [118] - Quote ***** foums ate my first post. Gypsio III wrote: No, this doesn't make sense. Balance is relative, not absolute. If T1 cruisers are bad, which they are, then they are bad relative to something else; the existence of another ship class makes them bad. That "something else" is, in this case, the other ships that are used in the same roles as cruisers. Yes, this is true. Placed alongside BS and HACs in terms of EHP/DPS they are positively awful, a single competent bomb run will wipe them out (which BCs actually can sustain, if barely), they can't realistically tank fighters in orbit, etc. etc. Quote: You mention HACs, but HACs aren't really used in the same roles as cruisers. Your average cruiser is (was?) set up for a close-range fight, while your typical HAC is set up to operate at considerably greater range. Well, I'm assuming that you weren't flying a gang of autoMuninns here, right? In any case, the price difference between cruiser and HAC is far greater than between cruiser and BC, and while price isn't a primary balance factor, nor can it be ignored. lolno, automunnins suck *** *. People do run Arty Rupture and Sniper Caracal gangs, from what I've seen they do pretty well against kitchen-sink rabble fleets. But I compare apples to apples. Can a competent nano-Rupture pilot ever beat a competent Vaga pilot without some form of outside advantage, i.e. sentries, rat DPS/EWAR, Vaga being gloriously AFK, etc. Can he ever engage the same range of targets as that competent Vaga? Will a competent arty Rupture gang beat a competent Muninn gang? Or Tempest? Or Hellcat? Or literally any other common (non-BC) fleet comp out there? And it's silly to say you can't ignore price in balancing, of course you can. It is good for the game that those who are barely able to fund PvP can still repeatedly kill those flying moneyboats, whether it's a Dram losing to a trio of Rifters, a Loki dying to two Drakes or a Aeon folding to thirty Tempests. Quote: Instead, the class that is used in the same role as cruisers is battlecruisers. Both cruisers and BCs are generally used as cheap, disposable, close-ish range general-purpose PVP ships. The problem is that the BCs are so much better than cruisers in every field, have taken every role that cruisers had, even in terms of mobility and tracking, that cruisers are now dismissed as "bad" in an absolute sense, even though absolute badness is a logical impossibility. My views are relative, but holistic. In a gang setting, if a ship can't sport at least 50K EHP (shield tanking, it's more for armor) and 2K alpha or 600 DPS, I have no use for it. Unless it bubbles. That's a fairly rigid set of standards that isn't going to change unless CCP does a radical overhaul of combat mechanics and weapon attributes. Quote:** Anyway, presumably you would advocate boosting tier 1 BCs to tier 2 levels, on the basis that T1 BCs aren't balanced or useful in a world where the tier 2s exist. That's a perfectly respectable opinion - but what would you do to make cruisers balanced and useful? Boost them all too? It wouldn't be enough to just do Tiericide on cruisers, the class need significant all-round help to give them a role in a world where BCs exist. But this would make destroyers and frigates less viable... You presume wrong. In my opinion, Tier 1 BCs should stay crap, they are Tier 1. Whether or not the tier system is a good idea is a separate discussion. Also, you couldn't possibly make frigs and destroyers (esp. T1) any less viable than they are now: HACs chew up them up at hilariously lop-sided rates and even BSes can deal with them fine under realistic medium gang conditions (blobs spread out slightly to lower transversal and the cloud of Warriors instapop them). In my perfect world, the (potentially) decent cruiser (Omen, Thorax, Caracal) would get more PG and baseline shield/armor, some of them are hilariously under-gridded for what is considered a standard tank and gank setup and even their T2 counterparts are so squishy you have to be selective in what you choose to fight in them.
uglybass Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.19 11:24:00 - [119] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Ingvar Angst wrote: Quote: Damage Types Sleepers do omni damage. Missiles do two types and their lasers do the other two types. This means you will need to set up your ship for balanced resists. Tentative Sleeper resists: Armor is 70/70/70/70 with Structure being 0/0/0/0. On the surface, I'd say you're better off keeping the bonuses you get for kinetic. I am not going to go into the technical on this with graphs and such. I don't know which is better for a Drake. For a Cyclone, the Havocs are better: Base Shield Damage - 76.8 Base Armour Damage - 172.8 Scourge Base shield Damage - 115.2 -(default for people as it is an all round missile but sleepers have no shields) Base Armour Damage - 144.0 This is little bit OT, but no-one seemed to correct this so I will. This base armor damage is calculated against 60/35/10/25 "base armor resistance" (which actually minmatars have). because sleepers tank 70/70/70/70 it doesn't matter which kind of missiles you use (if you are not getting racial dmg bonus, eg. drake with kine)
Jenshae Chiroptera 34	Posted - 2011.10.19 17:42:00 - [120] - Quote uglybass wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I don't know which is better for a Drake.For a Cyclone, t Base Armour Damage - 172.8 , eg. drake with kine) ... CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 40	Posted - 2011.10.19 18:44:00 - [121] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: uglybass wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I don't know which is better for a Drake.For a Cyclone, t Base Armour Damage - 172.8 , eg. drake with kine) ... I'm not sure what you are getting at...? You realize sleeper armor is omni-tanked yes? You can fire whatever missiles you want from a Cyclone, they will do the same damage.
Jenshae Chiroptera 36	Posted - 2011.10.19 22:26:00 - [122] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: I'm not sure what you are getting at...? You realize sleeper armor is omni-tanked yes? You can fire whatever missiles you want from a Cyclone, they will do the same damage. I understand that. I am getting at the points which he didn't read. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Arronicus Beyond Divinity Inc Excuses. 0	Posted - 2011.10.20 05:11:00 - [123] - Quote I think this entire topic is completely undermined by the fact that the topic author never actually bothered to look at the ship bonuses of the drake. It is truely painful to see that she tries to draw comparisons between the drake and the cyclone, a tier 1 battlecruiser to a tier 2 battlecruiser, with the drake having in some instances, propulsion mods (At which point said drake pilot should just fit warp core stabs and call it a day), but more importantly, unbonused weapons. Please please please PLEASE do a tiny bit of reading next time, before starting a balance topic, on the ship that you are claiming needs a balance. Any drake comparison worth reading will have Kinetic missiles loaded, and ONLY kinetic missiles loaded, for the sake of damage comparisons versus sleepers, as there is no bonus to using EM, and in fact, there are penalties (in terms of 5% per level) to using anything but kinetic. Also, noone is going to throw a dread guristas invul on a drake. You claim that your dread gurista's active tank drake is still cheaper than a tengu; it isnt. A tengu can do a better job in almost all regards, in the situation listed, for cheaper, by a few hundred million. Learn the drakes tier Learn the drakes missile bonus Revise any fittings with active tank, over 200mil in mods, or lowslot propulsion mods. Retry arguement.
Berendas The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.10.20 07:38:00 - [124] - Quote The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare. -- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed. The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie.
Laechyd Eldgorn draketrain 9	Posted - 2011.10.20 08:08:00 - [125] - Quote Berendas wrote: The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare. -- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed. The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie. i dont know what trolling numbers you use but you failed at the point you called drake solopwnmobile :D
Auracon The Tuskers 0	Posted - 2011.10.20 08:24:00 - [126] - Quote Drakes are a nice ship for small fleets, but so are canes, harbys, and myrms. In general the BC line is is well thought out and balanced. Moreover, each BC is unique and does not duplicate with other BCs. Each also takes a unique set of skills to really shine. Drakes have: range high ehp possibly more mobility than armor BCs but lack: diverse damage types DPS! really high mobility or good active tanks If you want to balance something, try looking at ECM, supercaps and less viable ships (retribution, eagle, and ashimmu spring to mind).
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 40	Posted - 2011.10.20 08:53:00 - [127] - Quote Berendas wrote: The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Hurricanes are more popular than Drakes by virtually every measure.
Jenshae Chiroptera 39	Posted - 2011.10.20 16:45:00 - [128] - Quote Arronicus wrote: Blah PLEASE, please, please read the thread. Even the just the original post a little. Tier 2 are hardly ever used. I am no longer saying nerf the Drake but buff them. They are battle cruisers. Mfume Apocal wrote: Berendas wrote: The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Hurricanes are more popular than Drakes by virtually every measure. Except for the PVE measure, half the game ... which you have no stats for? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 41	Posted - 2011.10.20 17:49:00 - [129] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Except for the PVE measure, half the game ... which you have no stats for? No BC is actually good at PvE, either they're tank is too weak (Harb, Cane) or their practical DPS too low (Drake, Myrm) to the point where you'd be better off in a under-skilled BS than a competently fit and flown BC. But I suppose if your purpose while PvEing isn't to make actual isk, but to sit there tanking rats solo, Drakes are pretty OP. If you want to talk about OP (as in making a disproportionate amount of isk for SP and isk invested) ships for PvE, look at the Tengu chain-farming C6s, sanctums, etc.
Jenshae Chiroptera 39	Posted - 2011.10.20 17:53:00 - [130] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: ... I suppose if your purpose while PvEing isn't to make actual isk, but to sit there tanking rats solo, Drakes are pretty OP. ... Drakes are your little Tengu. Corp member made 400M last night doing a C3 in a Drake. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die.
Covert Kitty SRS Industries SRS. 19	Posted - 2011.10.21 09:22:00 - [131] - Quote Quote: Try taking that drake into a C3 or up and see just how far you get...... Actually drakes can solo C3's, slowly. Drakes are probably a bit too much "bang for the buck" both in pvp and in pve. That said your a lot better off in a BS or SC for running C2-C4 why would you waste an account on a drake?
Kitt JT Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda 2	Posted - 2011.10.23 23:16:00 - [132] - Quote I fly all the caldari boats with good skills. The drake is not overpowered. Yes, it is a very versatile ship, but it has drawbacks. The drake can: Fit decent dps (about 450 with HML's, 550 with HAMS, no drones both cases) AND, Fit a good buffer tank (about 100k ehp). Fit **** dps (about 250 with HML's) AND a great passive regen tank. But it has inherent drawbacks. For pvp, it is a shield tanker. Shield tank means you must sacrifice tank for versatility (prop mods, ewar, etc.) It uses missiles! This is still a major drawback for all missile boats for pvp. At anything over 30 km or so, you start to land 1 volley to every 2-3 or even 4 volleys of a turret ship. Its slow as hell. For pve, you can either fit your awesome passive tank, or fit damage mods. Since pve revolves around killing the most stuff in the least time, this obviously sucks. It means you can't take advantage of EITHER your full damage OR your full tank without either other ships, or compromising one severely. The drake is incredibly well balanced. It is an excellent counterpart (or counterpoint) to the hurricane (as caldari and minmatar are arguably the best races for cruiser size pvp). The harbi isn't terrible, but don't forget that amarr dominate the battleship realm of pvp. The myrm is good if used right, but also keep in mind the gallente have a firm hold over capital pvp, and are very good contenders for being superior at frigate sized pvp as well. The hybrid and assault ship ballance this winter will level the playing field a little, but as it stands, it's pretty well balanced. Balancing through diversity is better than balancing through uniformity.
Jenshae Chiroptera 43	Posted - 2011.10.24 00:35:00 - [133] - Quote Kitt JT wrote: For pve, ... ... resist tank + damage mods. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Amaldor Themodius Ascetic Virtues 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 04:52:00 - [134] - Quote Drake does not need a nerf.. its a good vessel to be sure but its one of the few caladri ships that are worth flying.. let them have a great performer in the Drake they need something..
bloodlust priest Hedion University Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2011.10.24 12:32:00 - [135] - Quote Amaldor Themodius wrote: Drake does not need a nerf.. its a good vessel to be sure but its one of the few caladri ships that are worth flying.. let them have a great performer in the Drake they need something.. the argument that its caldaris only good ship is a reason to buff caldari, i would love to fly the cerb again but too many caldari ships are just too niche or just bad. the drake is too powerful for a battlecruiser and needs a nerf
Aesiron Squadron 1 2	Posted - 2011.10.24 13:54:00 - [136] - Quote Berendas wrote: The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes because they completely dominate small gang warfare. -- I know that this was a thread started with discussion on the Drakes PVE applications (where it is still far and away better than all other BC's) but the same things that make it OP there make it OP in PVP. The tank, the damage, the range, all with little to nothing sacrificed. The Drake needs a nerf, the current state of Drakes Online makes this pretty clear. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is in denial and doesn't want to lose their solopwnmobile. I try not to make such heavy handed statements regarding ship balance but the numbers don't lie. No the Drake isn't overpowered since it's DPS is awful.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 21	Posted - 2011.10.24 14:07:00 - [137] - Quote Berendas wrote: The Drake is overpowered. The sheer amount of EHP/ shield regen it can get while still maintaining strong dps and excellent range completely outclasses all other BC's in terms of tank/damage. Add in the fact that it's shield tanked and that makes it faster than armor BC's. Just go out to low sec and see, half the ships you'll run into are Drakes... ...and the other half are Hurricanes. Nerf all tier 2 BCs.
Jenshae Chiroptera 45	Posted - 2011.10.24 14:25:00 - [138] - Quote Aesiron wrote: No the Drake isn't overpowered since it's DPS is awful. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I don't fly a Drake myself but with an all T2 set up and some cheap implants - resistance tanking, I make a fit with two Ballistic Controls T2, 7x Heavy Launchers T2 64 541 eHP 225 sustained, 522 re-enforced defences per second 548 DPS (not over heated) 2845 per volley Having no faction mods and being a T1 ship for that little ISK - is there any ship with that much tank and DPS? Gypsio III wrote: ...and the other half are Hurricanes. Nerf all tier 2 BCs. Buff Tier 1 battle cruisers. Remove all the triers actually, let us just have Tech 1, 2 and 3. Make the normal cruisers better for their designed purposes. They are cruisers. Not battle cruisers. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
JitaJane Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2011.10.24 14:54:00 - [139] - Quote I don't feel that the drake needs to be Nerfed, honestly it is a little overrated. The passive fit works for every tier II BC pretty much (I don't fly Amaar). Myrm gets comprable tank and slightly better DPS. 'Cane (so long as you are willing to trade some SPRs for Gyros) comes out with less tank and a lot more DPS. Nothing against the Drake, flying one right now. FOFs 'cause guristas are broken. My real concern with the new BCs is that they could make a lot of BSs completely obsolete. I heard they are going to up the gun size. Unless they change the re-charge on shields for class what we will end up with is passive pocket BS's. Which honestly would make the game a little less interesting not more.
Jenshae Chiroptera 52	Posted - 2011.10.26 00:56:00 - [140] - Quote Bump CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Noisrevbus 4	Posted - 2011.11.05 22:12:00 - [141] - Quote Arbiter Reborn wrote: sorry but 750 dps with 80k ehp is pretty insane You do realize you essentially ruled out all the tier 2 BC's there, right?
Messoroz AQUILA INC 48	Posted - 2011.11.05 22:45:00 - [142] - Quote Wait...are you saying a Drake can run C2 sites easily? You do realize you can do most C2 anoms in a PVP fit hurricane painlessly and faster than a pve fit drake? Most of the people I say are complaining are about how the drake can keep range. GOOD! Learn to ******* do something besides sitting at zero and shooting someone next to you. This game is more than just gate camping and brawling at zero.
Jenshae Chiroptera 106	Posted - 2011.11.06 01:52:00 - [143] - Quote Messoroz wrote: You do realize you can do most C2 anoms in a PVP fit hurricane painlessly and faster than a pve fit drake?. Warping in and out? Using limited cap boosters? Those ships hit hard, you need a solid tank. I just get along by hugging the battle ships so that only their missiles hit me. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
IIPrimaryLotusII Army of Space Monkeys Damned Nation 0	Posted - 2011.11.06 06:40:00 - [144] - Quote Ok... skimmed through the thread and saw something about comparing fits between a cyclone and a drake, something about a battleship not being able to take on a drake, and just in general that the drake is OP. Put on those shield extenders and rigs, and you will get HIT like a BS except you have fail DPS. Your all EFT warrioring the drake, but your not taking other numbers into consideration. Comparing an armor tanked pvp boat to a passive/buffer shield tank you have to consider that the armor tanked ship does not take penalty to SIG RADIUS. The drake will in fact when fit with the massive 100k buffer/passive tank which you speak of, flys slow as molasses and also has a sig radius HIGHER than ANY battleship. In fact with the buffer fit drake, your sig radius is so high that you start getting worried about taking more damage from capital ships than a standard armor fit battleship would. Also, comparing the Hurricane to a Drake.... do you realize it's impossible to kill a decent hurricane pilot in a buffer fit drake? Hurricanes are freaking fast, they will be able to dis-engage with no issues whatsoever. Put a buffer or passive drake in a situation where they are going to die, and you have a 99.9999% chance of getting popped. A battleship will lock you in a second and also be able to out-run you easily. Buffer tank drakes aren't as safe as you think, they are actually sitting ducks in many circumstances. You are thinking purely in terms of DPS and TANK where there is much more to the game than just those two things. By the way, a hurricane can fit a great armor buffer tank, a MWD, 2 WEBS, a SCRAM, plus 2 MEDIUM NEUTS, and still do some pretty sick dps. By the way the only cap being used are MWD, WEB, and SCRAM so it can cap out a Drake and get away with it. Like someone else said, the drake is actually balanced fair for PvP, in fact it's one of the only balanced Caldari ships for PvP. With a more balanced fit the drake can actually use a MWD, POINT, and one SMALL NEUT and still be able to actually put out strong dps and a very decent tank. Just remember a BS will lock and kill you without any issues because of the high sig radius. If you are willing to fly this OP OMFGBBQ BUFFER DRAKE just be wary that people can fly circles around your ass and a BS will sit on you and fart in your face while killing you. One more thing, for those that think missile dps is projected 100% to targets because they don't have tracking penalties think again. Missiles have explosion velocity and also explosion radius which acts very similar to the limitations on turrets tracking and signature resolution. In fact, the statements like "omg it can hit out to 70k it's a l33t sniper too" is rediculous. Yes missiles can have good range but they are terrible for sniping because a) you will hit for little damage no matter what range if your missiles are too big... and b) some guns (cough artillery) can do **** tons of damage from long ranges to smaller targets without having to wait for the missiles to get to the target. It's instantanious damage, and in extreme cases, an artillery fit tempest/maelstrom can kill a TENGU fit with an ACTIVE tank in a single volley. Tell me that's not OP and minmatar needs to be nerfed, a freaking 700m+ ship getitng killed in 1 shot by a battleship costing around 100m. From my perspective nerf drake threads come across as either trolls or someone that doesn't understand what limitations and benefits of the different tier 2 battlecruisers.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 82	Posted - 2011.11.06 07:24:00 - [145] - Quote IIPrimaryLotusII wrote: Tell me that's not OP and minmatar needs to be nerfed, a freaking 700m+ ship getitng killed in 1 shot by a battleship costing around 100m. you can do the same for less isk with an arty apoc
IIPrimaryLotusII Army of Space Monkeys Damned Nation 0	Posted - 2011.11.06 07:29:00 - [146] - Quote Mfume Apocal wrote: IIPrimaryLotusII wrote: Tell me that's not OP and minmatar needs to be nerfed, a freaking 700m+ ship getitng killed in 1 shot by a battleship costing around 100m. you can do the same for less isk with an arty apoc No doubt, pve tengu is a juicy target at the very least will be a nice boost to killboards even if it doesnt have 1b+ of mods to loot.
Jenshae Chiroptera 116	Posted - 2011.11.06 12:02:00 - [147] - Quote The thread got around to the point of saying that Tier 1 needs a boost so that we have eight instead of two to four options. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Psihius Anarchist Dawn U N K N O W N 2	Posted - 2011.11.06 15:52:00 - [148] - Quote I should say that thread makes me sad, because drake as a ship is fine. What is not fine is some other BC's that need some changing - I will not speculate how, because I have a perfect t2 drake and I was flying on alt a perfect shield Hurricane in WH space farming. The end story is that despite the drakes ability to tank and do some good damage, it preforms in C2 worse than a good Hurricane. I was able to make anomalies 1.5-2 times faster on a Hurricane than on a drake. The reason is that Hurricane kills frigates with ease. Drake has to fire 5-7 precision missiles to make that frig pop. Crusers also are killed faster, but the difference is not so big. Besides, Hurricane should speedtank. Ofcourse it will be underpowered if you stick in it tons of resists, shield extenders and so on. Speedtanking Hurricane is much more powerfull and does more DPS than a drake and effectively better - just don't stick modules witch make it's signature twice as bigger as it's own :) A PvP drake with reasonable fitting is not so powerfull as it seems, it's just that people tend to make them be tanks, fit less damage mods, rigs are pure shield extenders and so on. So it should be other BC's to be changed, rather than changing drake so that it becomes some invalid. Try fit HAM drake, not HM - good luck with tanking that one.
Jenshae Chiroptera 119	Posted - 2011.11.07 03:45:00 - [149] - Quote Psihius wrote: Drake has to fire 5-7 precision missiles to make that frig pop. Crusers also are killed faster, but the difference is not so big.. Grouping your launchers are you? Can your hurricane handle C3s? How about when it is speed tanking and gets webbed by five frigates in a Mag site in the C2 - how well does it do then? Drakes can do C3s and they can do them with T1 launchers / missiles and such. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Cpt Fina The Tuskers 79	Posted - 2011.11.07 04:50:00 - [150] - Quote It' should be the most obvious issues when it comes to balancing, that the tier 2 BCs are performing way better than they should. The reason so many are against nerfing these ships are probably due to them being easily accecible and popular GÇô everybody and their dog is using them. We don't have pilots that are stuck on the T1 cruiser level, complaining about how the cane and the drake obsolete a bunch of ships in their wake, because the step from cruisers to Bcs is so very small. The lack of support for a nerf does not however make these ships balanced. And no, buffing tier 1 Bcs is not a sollution. When the introduction of 4 ships make a fleet of old ships obsolete GÇô you adress the 4 new ships GÇô not the fleet of ships.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 82	Posted - 2011.11.07 08:16:00 - [151] - Quote Cpt Fina wrote: It' should be the most obvious issues when it comes to balancing, that the tier 2 BCs are performing way better than they should. The reason so many are against nerfing these ships are probably due to them being easily accecible and popular GÇô everybody and their dog is using them. We don't have pilots that are stuck on the T1 cruiser level, complaining about how the cane and the drake obsolete a bunch of ships in their wake, because the step from cruisers to Bcs is so very small. The lack of support for a nerf does not however make these ships balanced. And no, buffing tier 1 Bcs is not a sollution. When the introduction of 4 ships make a fleet of old ships obsolete GÇô you adress the 4 new ships GÇô not the fleet of ships. dont worry ccp heard your cries for nerfing tier 2 bc and come this winter, it will be tornado and oracle online
Jenshae Chiroptera 126	Posted - 2011.11.07 12:57:00 - [152] - Quote How would you make T1 Cruisers more specialised and useful? What do you think T3 frigates would be like? Just mini T3 cruisers? CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions 42	Posted - 2011.11.08 20:47:00 - [153] - Quote The Drake is not even remotely over-powered. -1111, get out. I A/F/K cloak in Jita. Does that count?
Jenshae Chiroptera 149	Posted - 2011.11.09 00:35:00 - [154] - Quote Thanks for the bump and expressing your option. (Though, I think it would have more weight if you gave reasons for your belief.) CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Morrodenya Biotronic Solutions and Engineering The Bohemians 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 04:49:00 - [155] - Quote Nerf drake? NO ... simple as that. Drake is a very balanced ship PVE wise (flew one from 2008 till this year (ok had one year break though)) it can tank very well if you want to sacrifice its dps or it does acceptable (not even AWEsome) dps if you are willing to sacrifice its tank OR it can do both if you like to make an insanely expensive drake (I had once a drake like that, it was worth roughly around 1.5 bill and it performed almost as well as a 500 mill costing Nighthawk fit hehe). Pvp wise its passive tank with high buffer make it a popular choice but do not forget that if fitting a drake for max buffer it also has a sig radius which is bigger than your average battleship. Just my 2 cents as a very happy ex-drake pilot (well i still use one for wormhole expeditions because its way cheaper than taking a nighthawk into wormhole space hehe)
Jenshae Chiroptera 150	Posted - 2011.11.09 04:57:00 - [156] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The thread got around to the point of saying that Tier 1 needs a boost so that we have eight instead of two to four options. Ideas & stuff No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Morrodenya Biotronic Solutions and Engineering The Bohemians 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 05:21:00 - [157] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The thread got around to the point of saying that Tier 1 needs a boost so that we have eight instead of two to four options. I have no beef with rebalancing the BC. However as the initial post and many of the posts after went on like how OP the drake is i replied to that. However i dont have enough info on the other battlecruisers to make any usefull comments on those. I am a caldari only flying pilot who solely focuses on missiles (yez i iz a carebear lol) so from that perspective and experience i can tell you the drake is ok but nowhere overpowered ... maybe the others need some love and i am not against that in principle. It must be noted though from the Ferox perspective with the winter expansion it will get a bit of love automatically as CCP is gonna rebalance the weapons system it uses (if that will be enough ... would not know)
Jenshae Chiroptera 150	Posted - 2011.11.09 05:34:00 - [158] - Quote Test the Ferox and get back to us? Ideas & stuff No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 758	Posted - 2012.01.04 03:10:00 - [159] - Quote Messoroz wrote: Learn to ******* do something besides sitting at zero and shooting someone next to you. This game is more than just gate camping and brawling at zero.
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 24	Posted - 2012.01.04 03:31:00 - [160] - Quote Morrodenya wrote: Nerf drake? NO ... simple as that. Drake is a very balanced ship PVE wise (flew one from 2008 till this year (ok had one year break though)) it can tank very well if you want to sacrifice its dps or it does acceptable (not even AWEsome) dps if you are willing to sacrifice its tank OR it can do both if you like to make an insanely expensive drake (I had once a drake like that, it was worth roughly around 1.5 bill and it performed almost as well as a 500 mill costing Nighthawk fit hehe). Pvp wise its passive tank with high buffer make it a popular choice but do not forget that if fitting a drake for max buffer it also has a sig radius which is bigger than your average battleship. Just my 2 cents as a very happy ex-drake pilot (well i still use one for wormhole expeditions because its way cheaper than taking a nighthawk into wormhole space hehe) Aye, Drake is a shield fit missile boat. That's pretty much going to make it the best option for PvE no matter what. Buffing the other BCs to compensate them is just going to make them OP in PvP. As it is a cane will kill the crap out of a drake in PvP, as would a Myrmidon and... actually I don't about harbingers, I've never flown one. But you get my point, any DPS or tank buffs given to them would just make them unstoppable. Anyway, I'll agree Drake's are the best PvE battlecruisers. But balancing them around that will completely destroy them in PvP, same thing goes for the Tengu. I hate that my Loki does similar DPS at a quarter of the range, but I understand why. If I was really that fussed by it I'd train for a Tengu. tl;dr if you think Drakes are OP train up your missile skills and go fly one.
Mars Theran EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance 34	Posted - 2012.01.04 04:12:00 - [161] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ... Here: Drake 1 & Drake 2 [Drake, Kill them all] Damage Control II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Medium Shield Booster II Target Painter II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Fulmination Rage Assault Missile E50 Prototype Energy Vampire Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 ................... [Drake, Passive standard] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 ... Drake 1 296 / 352 (vamp means it won't run dry) 443 DPS / 1355 volley (EFT) Drake 2 799 / 799 constant defence 225 DPS / 1444 volley (EFT) Cyclone 119 / 590 (tank sacrifice and has to pulse it, so can't sustain) 389 DPS / 579 Volley __________________________ So ... the first Drake does way more damage and the second drake has way more tank. The first Drake will probably have more tank over time than the Cyclone. ..? On both Drakes, you need to swap the passive recharge for buffer. I know from experience that a passive Recharge tank is absolutely useless. Sure, works nice when their is low incoming DPS; but get some high Alpha or higher DPS than buffer and you're wrecked. Basically, for WH fit, try the following: [Drake, WH Buffer PvP/Sleeper] Ballistic Control Unit II Ballistic Control Unit II Ballistic Control Unit II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Target Painter II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Point Heavy Missile Launcher I, Kinetic Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, " Heavy Missile - Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 I don't have EFT or ability to log on right now, so it's off the top of my head, and I have no idea if PG/CPU is right, or what it takes to fit. Can't remember honestly, but you're better of with that than the other. Reasons: High Buffer SPRs drop Cap recharge if I recall; in a big way -If it's Cap heavy; swap out an Invuln for a shield recharger. Invuln chew massive Cap. Also, cycle Invuln will help or cap implants. Better DPS; even better with Tech II Launchers Omni-tank is good for sleepers and PvP; more for Sleepers, but their is still an EM hole. Not as bad. Sleepers eat drones; Warrior better for some PvP as they are faster. DPS on Sleepers is irrelevent to type; they tank all equally. Damage Control is awesome for PvP and Sleepers + extra Shield resist; never leave home without one. Point is good; Tp is required to boost sig of small PvP ships and Sleeper Frigates which move way fast. more reasons... edit: Also, anything you encounter in PvP is likely going to max DPS you anyway; so huge Sig is mostly irrelevent.
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 24	Posted - 2012.01.04 04:30:00 - [162] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: On both Drakes, you need to swap the passive recharge for buffer. I know from experience that a passive Recharge tank is absolutely useless. Sure, works nice when their is low incoming DPS; but get some high Alpha or higher DPS than buffer and you're wrecked. Enough DPS to alpha a battlecruiser? Really? Passive drakes can run C3s fine, albeit slowly as hell, buffer drake however will just die. Maybe a buffer drake can run a C2 (I don't know, I've never run anything below a C3), and it'd probably have better DPS. But I'd still hardly call passive fits useless. *EDIT: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57757-Drake-c3-WH.html
Bearilian Man Eating Bears 72	Posted - 2012.01.04 14:22:00 - [163] - Quote not supported.. -1 rather than try nerfing current ships, lets continue to expand and create new ones. eve could always use more diversity of vessels to fly. a new ship is something to get excited about, something ccp can advertise to pull new players in. I know there is a large hate for drakes, but that is no reason to ask it to be less usefull.
Jafit McJafitson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 95	Posted - 2012.01.04 14:58:00 - [164] - Quote Oh my god, this thread...
Mars Theran EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance 34	Posted - 2012.01.04 15:19:00 - [165] - Quote Simi Kusoni wrote: Mars Theran wrote: On both Drakes, you need to swap the passive recharge for buffer. I know from experience that a passive Recharge tank is absolutely useless. Sure, works nice when their is low incoming DPS; but get some high Alpha or higher DPS than buffer and you're wrecked. Enough DPS to alpha a battlecruiser? Really? Passive drakes can run C3s fine, albeit slowly as hell, buffer drake however will just die. Maybe a buffer drake can run a C2 (I don't know, I've never run anything below a C3), and it'd probably have better DPS. But I'd still hardly call passive fits useless. *EDIT: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57757-Drake-c3-WH.html Not enough to alpha a Battle Cruiser; just enough to get past the passive recharge. Basically, one ship kills the recharge, and the rest melt your tank. I'm not sure about C3 sleepers, as I've never done less than a C4; though I'd consider them comparatively weak. Your high buffers offer a significant passive recharge by themselves too; which coupled with the increased EHP is generally more useful. Passive recharge on a buffer is more effective disengaged too, as it's easily bypassed by 2 frigs. One Neut and your cap is drained on most SPR fits with Tech II Invulns, TPs, Webs and the like anyway; which is why they are comparatively useless in PvP. Significant EHP only gives you a little more sustainability; where the others just die in a spectacular fashion once neuted, webbed, TP'd or whatever. Wormholes are 0.0, and PvP is pretty common and available. edit: That Passive fit you linked is actually fine, and probably holds its own in C3s pretty well. The issue is when a PvP fleet shows up; not the Sleepers themselves. Any more than two moderately skilled PvP pilots, and it's going to die in a fire. Two will kill it just fine too, in most cases.
Metal Icarus xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire 73	Posted - 2012.01.04 15:39:00 - [166] - Quote Caldari has one good solid ship and everyone is saying it should be nerfed. I'd agree with them if the Caldari had a decent HAC, or if god forbid hybrids actually mattered in PVP. ITT: Whiny little bitches (except gallente, they got a lot to be mad about)
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 25	Posted - 2012.01.04 16:41:00 - [167] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: edit: That Passive fit you linked is actually fine, and probably holds its own in C3s pretty well. The issue is when a PvP fleet shows up; not the Sleepers themselves. Any more than two moderately skilled PvP pilots, and it's going to die in a fire. Two will kill it just fine too, in most cases. Ahh sorry, thought you were posting a PvE fit. I missed the "PvP" part at the top. Tbh, any solo BC is going to die in a fire if it gets warped in on while running a site
Jenshae Chiroptera 399	Posted - 2012.01.04 18:49:00 - [168] - Quote Bearilian wrote: not supported.. -1 rather than try nerfing current ships, lets continue to expand and create new ones. eve could always use more diversity of vessels to fly. a new ship is something to get excited about, something ccp can advertise to pull new players in. I know there is a large hate for drakes, but that is no reason to ask it to be less usefull. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The thread got around to the point of saying that Tier 1 needs a boost so that we have eight instead of two to four options. ... but don't worry. I have found out since this thread that this is one of the few forums around where you can actually change the title of a thread, so the rest of your ilk might read something. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Fidelium Mortis Quantum Cats Syndicate 17	Posted - 2012.01.04 19:37:00 - [169] - Quote Sadly a majority of the posts in this thread have little value, especially considering the horrid fits and mis-quoted numbers that are being used for comparison. I would suggest hopping on the server (or test server) and generating some real numbers that actually would contribute to the discussion. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Jenshae Chiroptera 400	Posted - 2012.01.04 23:47:00 - [170] - Quote Running through a spectrum of Drakes: 799 passive sustained tank with 225 DPS and 63% cap stable 573 active sustained tank with 529 DPS and 17 minutes (Drakes have a pretty poor recharge) 288 sustained tank 34K eHP, PVP toys and whistles, 522 DPS 236 sustained tank 111 141 eHP with 513 DPS 142 sustained tank, 41K eHP, PVP toys, 694 DPS 384 shield transfer spider tank, 47K eHP, PVP toys and with 613 DPS Less than a month trained up new character, 369 sustained tank for 13 minutes with 239 DPS. Simply put, those bricks are usually around long after the enemies are dead, thus they do more damage over time. People don't primary them, there are either more expensive things to shoot or softer targets. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.

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