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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 08:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:again why would you decide to go AFK? Let's see...somebody could call me do something fast, and I expect to be back in a few minutes or even seconds, and I don't want to lose the fleet position or other open stuff I might have that does not remain as such when I log off and log back on, but then those few minutes turn into many minutes or even several hours. Or maybe you're just watching a gate gathering intel about inbounds and only look at the window whenever you hear the WHOOSH. Or maybe you just don't like logging off because it takes too long to log back on on your machine. Or any other number of things where being mostly AFK is perfectly reasonable.
none of those issues affect my ideas! you can still go about doing them if you so wish! an hour was just an example but an hour is an hour! its still a long time to move to another safe spot if you so wish! if you 're having drama outside of eve then maybe you should reconsider playing for that time slot!
the same could be said about roaming in a fleet! would you expect the enemy just to stay docked while your sort your life out and come back to playing when it suits you? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1331
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 08:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:none of those issues affect my ideas Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 08:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:again why would you decide to go AFK? Let's see...somebody could call me do something fast, and I expect to be back in a few minutes or even seconds, and I don't want to lose the fleet position or other open stuff I might have that does not remain as such when I log off and log back on, but then those few minutes turn into many minutes or even several hours. Or maybe you're just watching a gate gathering intel about inbounds and only look at the window whenever you hear the WHOOSH. Or maybe you just don't like logging off because it takes too long to log back on on your machine. Or any other number of things where being mostly AFK is perfectly reasonable. Kingpin Nil wrote:Quote:No, seriously, WHY should going AFK be punished in any way, shape or form ? Why is your proposal even NECESSARY ? for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players CCP frowns upon AFK players getting something profitable done just as well or even better than somebody that stays ATK. A cloaked ship by design can do nothing except observe and move around inside a system. Which is the only purpose for cloaks existing in the first place. There's no direct profit to be made while cloaked, be it ATK or AFK. CCP has absolutely nothing against AFK cloakers as long as they remain AFK.
ok lets entertain this notion! then why do they AFK cloak in a system for a while? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1332
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:ok lets entertain this notion! then why do they AFK cloak in a system for a while?
Sigh...
Akita T wrote:To make you afraid of them being there, even if you shouldn't. Which they can't do if you can't see them at all.
Also, again, it is unfair that you get different treatment from a person who logged off instead of going AFK-cloaky when you both return, so THAT is the only thing that needs to be addressed, and something my proposal ACTUALLY ADDRESSES, while yours does not. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:none of those issues affect my ideas Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would. Kingpin Nil wrote:the same could be said about roaming in a fleet! would you expect the enemy just to stay docked while your sort your life out and come back to playing when it suits you? I would expect to remain safe as long as I am docked myself. Same way I would expect to be almost completely safe cloaked in a random safespot, the only chance of not being safe relying on a freak accident with practically zero chance of happening.
again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
1333
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
I give up trying to discuss this with you in here now because we've had this topic beaten so many times on these forums, it sickens me when the same old misconceptions just won't stay dead as a good horse should, and I am nauseated by reframing fallacious arguments. The only problem with AFK cloaking is when an AFK cloaker returns, not with him remaining AFK. Attempting to address the AFK part is pointless and counterproductive, since CCP will never care about your argument. If you want to do something that has any chances, address the ADVANTAGE AT RETURN and nothing else. I've said all that needed to be said, feel free to go back and re-read it. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/User:Akita_T T2 BPO poll: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114789 Buying this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=147098 |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:ok lets entertain this notion! then why do they AFK cloak in a system for a while? Sigh... Akita T wrote:To make you afraid of them being there, even if you shouldn't. Which they can't do if you can't see them at all. Also, again, it is unfair that you get different treatment from a person who logged off instead of going AFK-cloaky when you both return, so THAT is the only thing that needs to be addressed, and something my proposal ACTUALLY ADDRESSES, while yours does not.
I give different treatment? how so? both are completely different from one another!
I noticed you avoided my question?
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Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:none of those issues affect my ideas Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would. Kingpin Nil wrote:the same could be said about roaming in a fleet! would you expect the enemy just to stay docked while your sort your life out and come back to playing when it suits you? I would expect to remain safe as long as I am docked myself. Same way I would expect to be almost completely safe cloaked in a random safespot, the only chance of not being safe relying on a freak accident with practically zero chance of happening. again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others? Wow!.... Just wow! |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:constrictive feedback Kinky. "Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Akita T wrote:I give up trying to discuss this with you in here now because we've had this topic beaten so many times on these forums, it sickens me when the same old misconceptions just won't stay dead as a good horse should, and I am nauseated by reframing fallacious arguments. I've said all that needed to be said, feel free to go back and re-read it.
Actually for the most part youGÇÖre just trying to justify playing eve while AFK! The whole point of eve is to play! Why do you think CCP have tried so hard to eliminate the AFK players! When I ask you why players engage in these tactics itGÇÖs not always done just to annoy others! ThereGÇÖs a lot of isk to be made while doing so! |
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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:Akita T wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:none of those issues affect my ideas Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would. Kingpin Nil wrote:the same could be said about roaming in a fleet! would you expect the enemy just to stay docked while your sort your life out and come back to playing when it suits you? I would expect to remain safe as long as I am docked myself. Same way I would expect to be almost completely safe cloaked in a random safespot, the only chance of not being safe relying on a freak accident with practically zero chance of happening. again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others? Wow!.... Just wow!
you are taking this out of context! |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Yuri Wayfare wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:constrictive feedback Kinky.
sorry typo anything about the topic to discuss? |
Alice Fiorina
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:
actually the main reason behind this thread is to eliminate what's left of the AFK playing style! you can still stop null operations if you want just not AFK! log in stay there in the system all you want! but as soon as you're away! then expect to lose your ship!
its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.
CCP has no problem with people being AFK.
What they have a problem with is people earning ISK while AFK.
People who are cloaked in your system are just earning tears.
I imagine your post here has motivated a few more cloakies to come and keep you company...
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voetius
L V B Industries
10
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
As the previous poster pointed out, the issue that CCP have with AFK play is with AFK isk making. AFK cloakers aren't making isk.
Trinket's Friend summarised AFK cloaking well in another thread :
AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon in a game where, ultimately, if you can afford to lose a ship you suffer virtually zero consequences.
AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare. It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income by stopping the lazy, scared, unimaginative and intel-bereft fools from ratting. Therefore, there is a benefit to AFK cloaking in a nullbear ratting system - you deprive your foes of a source of cheap, easy, brainless income. Moreso if your foes are botters, as they won't ever modify their behaviour and counter your threat.
AFK cloaking is, to my mind at least, a valid terror weapon used by nullsec power blocs. TEST used to AFK cloak MO-GZ5 when NEM3 herpaderped around out in Delve. It forced our guys elsewhere, and stopped them from ratting in carriers. This prevented people from accumulating sufficient capital to gain enough supers and ******* to defend. Ultimately, it worked on the majority of NEM3 nullbears. It never stopped anyone with 1/11th of a brain and a nadger from ratting.
AFK cloaking never stopped me from ratting - I just did my ratting in a Tornado pair 70km away from one another. When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly and the supposed "victim" just MWDed away from the BLOPs drop. After a while, they stopped trying to jump ratting nados.
You are also conflatting the usual argumeent about risk-reward which is a core tenet of the relative income levels in EVE between security status tiers (hi, low, null, wh) with PVP. Sure, there's no direct threat to the AFK cloakeer, but so too he is getting no ISK while keeping his client logged in to EVE. This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on. At least the AFK cloaked isn't botting.
So, to sum up, you should work out a way to neutralise the threat, modify your behaviours, and not try to make the game suit your inefficient and shoddy gameplay style. If no one could deal with AFK cloaking, wormholes wwould be deserted. If no one could deal with logoffskis, no one would rat in any system's anoms, ever, because someone may be logged in a haven and watch wormnav for a ratting tick and try a logon trap. It works, eventually. What's your method for stopping that?
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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alice Fiorina wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:
actually the main reason behind this thread is to eliminate what's left of the AFK playing style! you can still stop null operations if you want just not AFK! log in stay there in the system all you want! but as soon as you're away! then expect to lose your ship!
its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.
CCP has no problem with people being AFK. What they have a problem with is people earning ISK while AFK. People who are cloaked in your system are just earning tears. I imagine your post here has motivated a few more cloakies to come and keep you company...
not really the argument could be made for disrupting your enemies ability to gather resource thus giving yourself an upper hand!
well if all those that stood up and voiced their opinions were afraid of being attacked or harassed! imagine the world we'd be living in now? |
Michael1995
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
46
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Make it so if a person cloaks they disappear from local, and if someone enters system via a wormhole they do not show up in local. One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
voetius wrote: As the previous poster pointed out, the issue that CCP have with AFK play is with AFK isk making. AFK cloakers aren't making isk.
Trinket's Friend summarised AFK cloaking well in another thread :
AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon in a game where, ultimately, if you can afford to lose a ship you suffer virtually zero consequences.
AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare. It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income by stopping the lazy, scared, unimaginative and intel-bereft fools from ratting. Therefore, there is a benefit to AFK cloaking in a nullbear ratting system - you deprive your foes of a source of cheap, easy, brainless income. Moreso if your foes are botters, as they won't ever modify their behaviour and counter your threat.
AFK cloaking is, to my mind at least, a valid terror weapon used by nullsec power blocs. TEST used to AFK cloak MO-GZ5 when NEM3 herpaderped around out in Delve. It forced our guys elsewhere, and stopped them from ratting in carriers. This prevented people from accumulating sufficient capital to gain enough supers and ******* to defend. Ultimately, it worked on the majority of NEM3 nullbears. It never stopped anyone with 1/11th of a brain and a nadger from ratting.
AFK cloaking never stopped me from ratting - I just did my ratting in a Tornado pair 70km away from one another. When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly and the supposed "victim" just MWDed away from the BLOPs drop. After a while, they stopped trying to jump ratting nados.
You are also conflatting the usual argumeent about risk-reward which is a core tenet of the relative income levels in EVE between security status tiers (hi, low, null, wh) with PVP. Sure, there's no direct threat to the AFK cloakeer, but so too he is getting no ISK while keeping his client logged in to EVE. This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on. At least the AFK cloaked isn't botting.
So, to sum up, you should work out a way to neutralise the threat, modify your behaviours, and not try to make the game suit your inefficient and shoddy gameplay style. If no one could deal with AFK cloaking, wormholes wwould be deserted. If no one could deal with logoffskis, no one would rat in any system's anoms, ever, because someone may be logged in a haven and watch wormnav for a ratting tick and try a logon trap. It works, eventually. What's your method for stopping that?
none of that stops anyone from coming into a system and moving about while cloaked! all I propose is to eliminate AFK players! you can still disrupted whatever operations you so desire!
but at least it wont be one sided! and you are wrong about not profiting while AFK you do realise the player market is controlled via the player base right? any changes or disruptions can lead to profit or lose depending on how intelligent the players. |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Michael1995 wrote:Make it so if a person cloaks they disappear from local, and if someone enters system via a wormhole they do not show up in local.
yeah its been said! but its not about showing up in local or not its about not player eve because you AFK for 23 hrs just to log on again and not play for another 23 hrs. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
95
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote: for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players
Don't be silly, what is frowned upon is not being AFK itself (lol) but using automation tools or game mechanics to farm and earning ISk while AFK.
If you have trouble with Recon or SB disturbing your 0.0 ratting then bait them. if they AFK they cannot hurt you. I may be wrong, but I suspect that all this hysteria about AFK cloacker is cause being there they do not allow to YOU (not you personally, speaking in general) to rat AFK or semi-AFK.
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Othran
Route One
269
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Time for a trip to Provi I feel |
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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.12.21 09:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote: for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players
Don't be silly, what is frowned upon is not being AFK itself (lol) but using automation tools or game mechanics to farm and earning ISk while AFK. If you have trouble with Recon or SB disturbing your 0.0 ratting then bait them. if they AFK they cannot hurt you. I may be wrong, but I suspect that all this hysteria about AFK cloacker is cause being there they do not allow to YOU (not you personally, speaking in general) to rat AFK or semi-AFK.
No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them!
remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
Othran wrote:Time for a trip to Provi I feel
You and everyone else it seems! nothing going to change about that! although I will say it hilarious the comments we get from local about how bad we all are in prov! and yet here they come, one after another! I mean if we're soo bad they what does it make them? lol
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Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
146
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote:Yuri Wayfare wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote:constrictive feedback Kinky. sorry typo anything about the topic to discuss? I don't feel qualified as I've never lived in null sec, so I have no experience of the sheer icy heart-gripping terror that having Someone Else in your system must inspire (though as I understand it, it's really really scary). "Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
remember guys its just some ideas!
I don't work for CCP but from what I usually read from the forums a lot of people get really upset about new ideas!
please stick to topic! I know it's been talked about before! so let all just chill lol |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
95
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kingpin Nil wrote: No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them! remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol
A solution for WHAT? there's no problem here: Eve gameplay has cloacking devices, this allow to some ship to move and operate in hostile territories, to spy, guerilla warfare or also simply to go AFK to eat a sandwitch.
Is not a bug or a problem to fix, it just work as intendeed.
Null is already enough of a safe area, want to remove this little risk too?
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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Kingpin Nil wrote: No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them! remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol
A solution for WHAT? there's no problem here: Eve gameplay has cloacking devices, do you think they're in game due to some mistake and not just designed so? this allow to some ship to move and operate in hostile territories, to spy, guerilla warfare or also simply to go AFK to eat a sandwitch. Is not a bug or a problem to fix, it just work as intendeed. Null is already enough of a safe area, want to remove this little risk too?
so I'm not always repeating myself just re-read the threat cheers. |
Opera Noir
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
24
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Posted - 2012.12.21 10:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm confused, mostly because I didn't bother to read all this gobbledygook. Is the proposal that AFK cloakers should not show up in local? If so I'm all for that, sounds like a grand opportunity.
Ah never mind I couldn't possibly care less on second thought. |
calaretu
Axial tilt Malefic Aspects
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Solution: remove anyone who dont speak in local from local rooster. problem solved. |
Midiana
Just Popped Out For Milk Corcoran State
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
There's a point here that is being totally overlooked.
AFK miner. He mines away while he's at work or goes out with his mates, And he makes Isk. That's illegal right? He's making a gain by not playing the game.
Botting Ratter. He shoots rats all day long while not at his keyboard, he's gone out with his mates and he's making some isk. Illegal yes? He's again making a gain by not playing.
AFK Cloaker. This guys aim is not to make isk. It's to stop other people making isk through fear of reprisal or hot drop. Fair play, if that's what he want's to do noone can stop him doing that. However then he goes to the pub. Or he goes shopping. He watches a movie. He's till performing his task, which is giving him a gain. That gain is to deprive his enemy of money through the threat that he actually is going to hot drop or tackle that rorqual you have in that belt. He's getting his gain (gain being the objective of competing what he set out to do), while not actually playing the game. That is illegal right?
The three above situations ALL give the pilot doing them a gain. One gives ore, one gives isk, one deprives their enemy of isk. Why one should be absolutely fine and the other two can lead to a ban is beyond me.
There are two completely simple fixes to the Cloaky camper problem :
1) Log off after a period of one hour inactivity. This means you have to be at your keyboard to stay logged in. Or you have to bot, which will get you banned. For being the cripple that you actually are.
2) Cloaks require some form of fuel or have a recharge timer on them. You either are forced to go and refuel to continue your cov ops reign of terror, or after one hour your cloak completely dissengages needing 30 mins recharge time before it can be activated again. Giving the defenders some time to find you if you remain AFK in one spot. And again, if your at work and leave your pc on, you can't recloak or refuel, leaving you time to die in the way you deserve.
This is'nt about denying the ability to AFK cloak, its about denying the ability to perform your job in hand, whether that's ratting, mining, or striking terror into carebear hearts while not actually playing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
57
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 10:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense. CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
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