Why should only sov owners have this ability anyway.

Why should only sov owners have this ability anyway.

What ability is it that only sov holders have again?

I propose a POS structure (one per system) to be built only by those with sovereignty

WeGÇÖre all aware of CCPGÇÖS stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?

Why should only sov owners have this ability anyway.

In case you did not know what AFK stands for, it means "Away From Keyboard".
As in, a person who can't possibly ever kill you while he is in that particular state.
Any "damage" an AFK cloaker can possibly do is self-inflicted fear-induced loss of earning opportunity.
Also, can't go on for weeks without breaks. We still have daily downtimes.

The simplest "fix" to the so-called "problem" of AFK cloakers is...
...removing cloaked ships from "local".
Now you either constantly crap your pants at the POSSIBILITY of somebody being there, or you just suck it up and go about your business the way you actually should if you have a "known" AFK cloaker in the system.
But that's waaaay too ballsy, eh ?

As to why that would be a solution - think spy alt plus logon trap.
I dare you to explain what the radical conceptual difference might be there other than the time spent e-warping for the logoff-trapper and slightly less preparation for the mostly-AFK-cloaker.
And why the AFK cloaking "has to be fixed" but the other not.
And if you plan to fix both, pray tell, how exactly would you fix the logged off guy's "threat" ?

its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.

Your logic failed at this point, so I didn't read the rest.
If you can not see why, I see no further point discussing the issue with you.

So you should have absolutely nothing against removing cloaked ships from local then.

for what purpose? how does this address the AFK players?

It makes them practically almost identical to logged-off players.
Also, see caveat edit : uncloaking happens on a timer (not dead set on 5 sec though) and you start showing up in local by then.
You know, 5 sec, or whatever the heck it usually takes for an log-on e-warp, so that both get treated almost exactly the same.

do you have any other fed back with the rest of my proposal?

Heavy-handed, wholly unnecessary, and downright unfair in parts. Other than that, nope, no other feedback, sorry.

AFK cloaking is not a problem, never was.
Self-induced fear always was, and always will be. You can't fix that completely.
Yes, a person returning at the keyboard after a long stint of AFK cloaking DOES get somewhat of an advantage now, but my seemingly harsh alternative actually WOULD remove that advantage without any drawbacks in the actual AFK period.

1) Use a locator agent to find Kingpin Nil.
2) Fly to where he usually hangs out in a cloaky ship.
3) Make safe spot.
4) Warp to safe spot.
5) Cloak if you already haven't.
6) Go watch TV.

Care to elaborate a bit further unfair?

but you were about to explain why players need to go AFK?

it already happens! lol but you were about to explain why players need to go AFK?

Just because they are sitting there doesn't mean they are actually AFK. They could be gathering valuable intelligence on your operations, lol. Also, might also be doing stuff on other characters, as I do. And I think it's mainly done because people know it disrupts things, and of course, there are the tears it can cause. Or maybe they just like the scenery and are admiring it.

That one.

eliminates the chances of a player deciding to go AFK

While actually AFK, you can't do a damn thing to anybody else, so it's not fair others can easily do something to you if you took even the slightest of precautions while remaining AFK.
It is unfair that you get an advantage over a person who logged off instead of going AFK-cloaky when you both return, so THAT is the only thing that needs to be addressed.
AFK cloaking should be made as close as possible to actually logging off. Or conversely, logging off should be made as close as possible to AFK cloaking.


To make you afraid of them being there, even if you shouldn't.
Which they can't do if you can't see them at all.

Of course, there's also LEGITIMATE non-evil reasons to go AFK instead of logging off, and nobody should be punished nor rewarded for picking one above the other.

Why ?
I get that it should not be rewarded, I completely agree, and my proposal actually DOES remove that reward.
No, seriously, WHY should going AFK be punished in any way, shape or form ? Why is your proposal even NECESSARY ?

Thanks. It was such a bad idea my brain refused to process it the first time.

again why would you decide to go AFK?

Let's see...somebody could call me do something fast, and I expect to be back in a few minutes or even seconds, and I don't want to lose the fleet position or other open stuff I might have that does not remain as such when I log off and log back on, but then those few minutes turn into many minutes or even several hours. Or maybe you're just watching a gate gathering intel about inbounds and only look at the window whenever you hear the WHOOSH. Or maybe you just don't like logging off because it takes too long to log back on on your machine. Or any other number of things where being mostly AFK is perfectly reasonable.

none of those issues affect my ideas

Let's see...somebody could call me do something fast, and I expect to be back in a few minutes or even seconds, and I don't want to lose the fleet position or other open stuff I might have that does not remain as such when I log off and log back on, but then those few minutes turn into many minutes or even several hours. Or maybe you're just watching a gate gathering intel about inbounds and only look at the window whenever you hear the WHOOSH. Or maybe you just don't like logging off because it takes too long to log back on on your machine. Or any other number of things where being mostly AFK is perfectly reasonable.


CCP frowns upon AFK players getting something profitable done just as well or even better than somebody that stays ATK.
A cloaked ship by design can do nothing except observe and move around inside a system. Which is the only purpose for cloaks existing in the first place. There's no direct profit to be made while cloaked, be it ATK or AFK. CCP has absolutely nothing against AFK cloakers as long as they remain AFK.

ok lets entertain this notion! then why do they AFK cloak in a system for a while?

To make you afraid of them being there, even if you shouldn't.
Which they can't do if you can't see them at all.

Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would.

I would expect to remain safe as long as I am docked myself.
Same way I would expect to be almost completely safe cloaked in a random safespot, the only chance of not being safe relying on a freak accident with practically zero chance of happening.

Sigh...



Also, again, it is unfair that you get different treatment from a person who logged off instead of going AFK-cloaky when you both return, so THAT is the only thing that needs to be addressed, and something my proposal ACTUALLY ADDRESSES, while yours does not.

again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?

constrictive feedback

I give up trying to discuss this with you in here now because we've had this topic beaten so many times on these forums, it sickens me when the same old misconceptions just won't stay dead as a good horse should, and I am nauseated by reframing fallacious arguments.
I've said all that needed to be said, feel free to go back and re-read it.

Wow!.... Just wow!

Kinky.

actually the main reason behind this thread is to eliminate what's left of the AFK playing style! you can still stop null operations if you want just not AFK! log in stay there in the system all you want! but as soon as you're away! then expect to lose your ship!

its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.

CCP has no problem with people being AFK.

What they have a problem with is people earning ISK while AFK.

People who are cloaked in your system are just earning tears.

I imagine your post here has motivated a few more cloakies to come and keep you company...

As the previous poster pointed out, the issue that CCP have with AFK play is with AFK isk making. AFK cloakers aren't making isk.

Trinket's Friend summarised AFK cloaking well in another thread :

AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon in a game where, ultimately, if you can afford to lose a ship you suffer virtually zero consequences.

AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare. It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income by stopping the lazy, scared, unimaginative and intel-bereft fools from ratting. Therefore, there is a benefit to AFK cloaking in a nullbear ratting system - you deprive your foes of a source of cheap, easy, brainless income. Moreso if your foes are botters, as they won't ever modify their behaviour and counter your threat.

AFK cloaking is, to my mind at least, a valid terror weapon used by nullsec power blocs. TEST used to AFK cloak MO-GZ5 when NEM3 herpaderped around out in Delve. It forced our guys elsewhere, and stopped them from ratting in carriers. This prevented people from accumulating sufficient capital to gain enough supers and ******* to defend. Ultimately, it worked on the majority of NEM3 nullbears. It never stopped anyone with 1/11th of a brain and a nadger from ratting.

AFK cloaking never stopped me from ratting - I just did my ratting in a Tornado pair 70km away from one another. When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly and the supposed "victim" just MWDed away from the BLOPs drop. After a while, they stopped trying to jump ratting nados.

You are also conflatting the usual argumeent about risk-reward which is a core tenet of the relative income levels in EVE between security status tiers (hi, low, null, wh) with PVP. Sure, there's no direct threat to the AFK cloakeer, but so too he is getting no ISK while keeping his client logged in to EVE. This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on. At least the AFK cloaked isn't botting.

So, to sum up, you should work out a way to neutralise the threat, modify your behaviours, and not try to make the game suit your inefficient and shoddy gameplay style. If no one could deal with AFK cloaking, wormholes wwould be deserted. If no one could deal with logoffskis, no one would rat in any system's anoms, ever, because someone may be logged in a haven and watch wormnav for a ratting tick and try a logon trap. It works, eventually. What's your method for stopping that?

Make it so if a person cloaks they disappear from local, and if someone enters system via a wormhole they do not show up in local.

for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players

Don't be silly, what is frowned upon is not being AFK itself (lol) but using automation tools or game mechanics to farm and earning ISk while AFK.

If you have trouble with Recon or SB disturbing your 0.0 ratting then bait them. if they AFK they cannot hurt you. I may be wrong, but I suspect that all this hysteria about AFK cloacker is cause being there they do not allow to YOU (not you personally, speaking in general) to rat AFK or semi-AFK.

Time for a trip to Provi I feel

sorry typo anything about the topic to discuss?

No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them!
remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol

A solution for WHAT? there's no problem here: Eve gameplay has cloacking devices, do you think they're in game due to some mistake and not just designed so? this allow to some ship to move and operate in hostile territories, to spy, guerilla warfare or also simply to go AFK to eat a sandwitch.

Is not a bug or a problem to fix, it just work as intendeed.

Null is already enough of a safe area, want to remove this little risk too?

Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense.

WeGÇÖre all aware of CCPGÇÖS stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?

The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain

ing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.

Because they're not doing anything wrong. What kind of silly question is this?

Now, you mentioned that you wanted to solve an age-old problem. What problem is that?

GǪabsolutely nothing. So what's the problem again?

You sir are an idiot.

The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work.

This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain (by doing what they do and restricting enemy movement) by not actually playing. Which CCP DOES frown upon heavily.

You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.

There's a point here that is being totally overlooked.

AFK miner. He mines away while he's at work or goes out with his mates, And he makes Isk. That's illegal right? He's making a gain by not playing the game.

Botting Ratter. He shoots rats all day long while not at his keyboard, he's gone out with his mates and he's making some isk. Illegal yes? He's again making a gain by not playing.

AFK Cloaker. This guys aim is not to make isk. It's to stop other people making isk through fear of reprisal or hot drop. Fair play, if that's what he want's to do noone can stop him doing that. However then he goes to the pub. Or he goes shopping. He watches a movie. He's till performing his task, which is giving him a gain. That gain is to deprive his enemy of money through the threat that he actually is going to hot drop or tackle that rorqual you have in that belt. He's getting his gain (gain being the objective of competing what he set out to do), while not actually playing the game. That is illegal right?

The three above situations ALL give the pilot doing them a gain. One gives ore, one gives isk, one deprives their enemy of isk. Why one should be absolutely fine and the other two can lead to a ban is beyond me.

There are two completely simple fixes to the Cloaky camper problem :

1) Log off after a period of one hour inactivity. This means you have to be at your keyboard to stay logged in. Or you have to bot, which will get you banned. For being the cripple that you actually are.

2) Cloaks require some form of fuel or have a recharge timer on them. You either are forced to go and refuel to continue your cov ops reign of terror, or after one hour your cloak completely dissengages needing 30 mins recharge time before it can be activated again. Giving the defenders some time to find you if you remain AFK in one spot. And again, if your at work and leave your pc on, you can't recloak or refuel, leaving you time to die in the way you deserve.


This is'nt about denying the ability to AFK cloak, its about denying the ability to perform your job in hand, whether that's ratting, mining, or striking terror into carebear hearts while not actually playing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.

You sir are an idiot.

The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain (by doing what they do and restricting enemy movement) by not actually playing. Which CCP DOES frown upon heavily.

You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.

The problem is that an afk cloaker behaves exactly like a atk cloaker.

Eve is a game, its not meant to be played or logged into while your at work.

just to recap guys! its still a very much hot topic

A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.

The point is that all those who cry about AFK cloakers should really try to play Factional Warfare lowsec missions for a while, although I know that they are too scared to do so. After the changes, which are pretty good actually, it looks like this:
- Your mission is located exclusively in the opposing militia's lowsec regions, which are usually 2-15 jumps away from your agent;
- The moment you click "Warp to" in order to go to your mission, a publicly viewable beacon pops out in the overview that is visible throughout the whole system;
- If the occupancy of the system is held by the opposing militia, you are denied docking rights to any station in that system;
- You do not have AFK cloakers, you have an active bunch of opposing militia members who gain Loyalty Points and Millitia standings when they blast your ship;
- When I played in the FW, it was not important how many of reds are in local, but how many of them are actively hunting me. Although, my rule was that I should be extra careful when there are more than 7 reds in local (statistically speaking, the percentage of those who are hunting in combination with 7+ reds makes it dangerous to proceed)

Yet, hundreds of players do these missions every day (until recently including me) without any problems.

And you are complaining about a single afk cloaker deep inside your own territory where you can dock or run to a POS at any time while not having a big shiny beacon that say "RATTER IS HERE" in the overview? Seriously?

How would that change anything without breaking cloaking?

A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.

You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.

How would that change anything without breaking cloaking?

Its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

But if you are not stopped from doing anything while the cloaked red is in local, how exactly is he affecting the game?

Happens all the time, you can not use that as an argument to change cloaking mechanics.

how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?

again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?

you should read the first post!

how do you tell if someone's playing eve at their keyboard or at work?

its not about changing how the cloak works or how someone can use a cloak! its about removing afk players.

It would make cloaking and going to sleep next to impossible without breaking the EULA. It would also give people a chance to catch cloakers while they are in between timers, and lastly depending on the length of the timers it shouldn't really "break" cloaking.

You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.

Anything that exposes active cloakers breaks cloaking and severely ruins w-space gameplay. A cycle timer will auto-repeat and won't have any effect on AFK people; a cycle timer that automatically shuts off the cloak after 1 hour (or whatever) will have to have zero cool-down so the active cloaker can double-tap it and keep it going uninterruptedGǪ and AFK cloakers will easily work that in making it a rather pointless addition.

The only problem with AFK cloaking is when an AFK cloaker returns, not with him remaining AFK. Attempting to address the AFK part is pointless and counterproductive, since CCP will never care about your argument. If you want to do something that has any chances, address the ADVANTAGE AT RETURN and nothing else.
I've said all that needed to be said, feel free to go back and re-read it.

It's not important where that someone is. He can be climbing Mount Everest as far as I'm concerned. The place where the other guy is does not affect the game.

GǪwhich mentions nothing of the kind so that's not particularly helpful.

You check to see if he follows you around.

Why? What's the problem? It's not like AFKers can do anything or pose any kind of threat. Why are you so hell-bent on removing something that is not even remotely an issue?

Anything that exposes active cloakers breaks cloaking and severely ruins w-space gameplay. A cycle timer will auto-repeat and won't have any effect on AFK people; a cycle timer that automatically shuts off the cloak after 1 hour (or whatever) will have to have zero cool-down so the active cloaker can double-tap it and keep it going uninterruptedGǪ and AFK cloakers will easily work that in making it a rather pointless addition.

Two better options:

A. Remove local from nullsec

...but since they couldn't find fights or use their bots and will ragequit, plan B:


B. Make cynos only mountable on BLOPS, change the skill from 5x to 8x, and add Electromagnetic Physics V to prerequisites.

This should deal with the general power projection problem as well.

In case you did not know what AFK stands for, it means "Away From Keyboard".
As in, a person who can't possibly ever kill you while he is in that particular state.
Any "damage" an AFK cloaker can possibly do is self-inflicted fear-induced loss of earning opportunity.
Also, can't go on for weeks without breaks. We still have daily downtimes.

The simplest "fix" to the so-called "problem" of AFK cloakers is...
...removing cloaked ships from "local".
Now you either constantly crap your pants at the POSSIBILITY of somebody being there, or you just suck it up and go about your business the way you actually should if you have a "known" AFK cloaker in the system.
But that's waaaay too ballsy, eh ?

As to why that would be a solution - think spy alt plus logon trap.
I dare you to explain what the radical conceptual difference might be there other than the time spent e-warping for the logoff-trapper and slightly less preparation for the mostly-AFK-cloaker.
And why the AFK cloaking "has to be fixed" but the other not.
And if you plan to fix both, pray tell, how exactly would you fix the logged off guy's "threat" ?

Your logic failed at this point, so I didn't read the rest.
If you can not see why, I see no further point discussing the issue with you.

The simplest solution for anyone who dislikes any AFK activity would be to have an auto-logoff function after a long time - like an hour, two hours, or even three hours.

After X hours of no activity the game logs you out.

But, is this really a problem? I've had AFK cloakies doing their AFK thing in 0.0 space with me before and it really wasn't a problem.... so.. shrug. Doesn't matter to me.

You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

why are you logging into eve just to remain afk?

This would imply that you should be allowed to be forever invisible.

It may actually make cloakers have to do something like jump safes while waiting on the cooldown, or lose eyes for a bit, you know actually being active.

the whole point of the post is about AFK players!

you are for some strange reason trying to misdirect the thread!

How to spot someone who doesn't understand mechanics or nullsec 101.

Discussing why bad solution to a non-problem causes actual problems for others because it's so bad counts as GÇ£misdirectionGÇ¥ now? No, I'm not. I'm arguing that the whole problem is in your head, and that is where you need to look for a solution.

But let's be honest here, you *ARE* one of the better posters here at complete obfuscation and talking around the actual topic, ya know.

Solve the problem with an AFK indicator in the local.

Little red dot appears next to the name.


fixed. Red dot dissappears, the guy put in a command or something.

But let's be honest here, you *ARE* one of the better posters here at complete obfuscation and talking around the actual topic, ya know.

Which would make things worse for these people and boost psychological warfare.

Just like every other AFK timer idea.

AFK cloaking exists because of local.

Remove local and AFK cloaking will not exist because there will be no reason to afk cloak in the first place. Then these AFK cloakers can instead focusing on actually blowing stuff up instead of engaging in a poor mechanics psychological warfare.

And yes, the mechanics is frigging awful as it is.

"Hiiiii everyone, I r here sitting in an invisible ship and u cannot harmz me!!! R u scaaaaaared?"

Really?

Where is the whole "sneaking up on a unsuspecting victim without anyone knowing you are there and blasting him to kingdom come and then run like hell" in all of this?

Surely the latter is a much better option for everyone? Well, except the one who ends up as fireworks that is. Or is this "too harsh for EVE these days"?

This.

Another attempt to fix something which isn't broken. There's way too much of this in GD.

So let me get this right. You want to nerf cloaks because you misread or rely to much, upon the the intel local is giving you?

How is that balanced?

I think you're the one that is missing the point here, both in your understanding of the topic (AFK cloakers) and people answering your own question.

WHY people log in just to walk away is IRRELEVENT. They do because they ARE PLAYING THE GAME. You seem to insist that game mechanics and play styles be restricted even further to suit a very, VERY small minority of players: those that get paranoid seeing someone in local and not being able to find them.

WHY I choose to log in JUST to afk cloak is to play MY game, regardless of whether you think it's fair or not. Simple fact is that it's part of the game. I choose to afk cloak to either a) screw with you, or b) because something comes up in RL and I CHOOSE not to log out because I'm in a position to play the game AND take care of my RL issue.

Quit trying to tell people in a lame passive-aggressive way to play your way and not theirs. If they choose to park a Nemesis somewhere in the system you AFK mine in, that's your problem, not the problem of everyone else playing EveO.

I don't think a damn thing needs to be "fixed" and the more tears and threads I read here about this topic the more I'm firmly in that camp. Remove AFK cloakers from local? Sure, why not? I'd just find another way to screw with you (like dropping a can announcing I'm here).

Cloaks having timers and using fuel are both going to affect non-afk cloakies.

Why should they suffer for your paranoia?

have you read my first post?

its not about anything other then getting rid of player going afk!

why should non existent players still affect game play?

why do you think your special enough to effect how others play the game?

nerf cloaks? I don't understand why people continue to not bother reading my first post! why are so many people hell bend on misdirecting this thread?

Irrelevant the issue is players going AFK! Why does this simple concept escape so many people?

Answer me this. Whilst people are AFKing, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Wow. Just--- wow. This one statement shows you truly don't understand this game.

Done. I'm out. 3/10 for getting so many to bite. Kudos.

You stated "Without destroying cloaking altogether!" So only destroying them a little? Sounds like an nerf.
You also said it was "to be used to detect cloaks." If that's not a nerf to cloaks, then what is?

But I have to ask. Why are you wanting to nerf cloaks, when they are not the cause of your problem?

No, not irrelevant. Because you need to understand WHY they go AFK and for what purpose. You even say yourself, that they are "used to disrupt null sec operations." You can't have it both ways, just because it doesn't suit your argument.

Answer me this. Whilst people are AFKing, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

because of falcon!!

ow wait its one of those damn cloaky threads again. grow a pair n use a decent fit n that single cloaky wont be able to do anything at all, just participate in the MM part of this fine MMO

it's irrenlavent because my argument inst about reds making locals paranoid its about addressing being AFK

There's a point here that is being totally overlooked.

AFK miner. He mines away while he's at work or goes out with his mates, And he makes Isk. That's illegal right? He's making a gain by not playing the game.

Botting Ratter. He shoots rats all day long while not at his keyboard, he's gone out with his mates and he's making some isk. Illegal yes? He's again making a gain by not playing.

AFK Cloaker. This guys aim is not to make isk. It's to stop other people making isk through fear of reprisal or hot drop. Fair play, if that's what he want's to do noone can stop him doing that. However then he goes to the pub. Or he goes shopping. He watches a movie. He's till performing his task, which is giving him a gain. That gain is to deprive his enemy of money through the threat that he actually is going to hot drop or tackle that rorqual you have in that belt. He's getting his gain (gain being the objective of competing what he set out to do), while not actually playing the game. That is illegal right?

The three above situations ALL give the pilot doing them a gain. One gives ore, one gives isk, one deprives their enemy of isk. Why one should be absolutely fine and the other two can lead to a ban is beyond me.

There are two completely simple fixes to the Cloaky camper problem :

1) Log off after a period of one hour inactivity. This means you have to be at your keyboard to stay logged in. Or you have to bot, which will get you banned. For being the cripple that you actually are.

2) Cloaks require some form of fuel or have a recharge timer on them. You either are forced to go and refuel to continue your cov ops reign of terror, or after one hour your cloak completely dissengages needing 30 mins recharge time before it can be activated again. Giving the defenders some time to find you if you remain AFK in one spot. And again, if your at work and leave your pc on, you can't recloak or refuel, leaving you time to die in the way you deserve.


This is'nt about denying the ability to AFK cloak, its about denying the ability to perform your job in hand, whether that's ratting, mining, or striking terror into carebear hearts while not actually playing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.

Afk cloaking is a valid disruption tactic tbh

If your in 0.0 and you have enemys then they will try to disrupt your day to day activatys be it camping your choke/entry points or hot droping your jump frieghters or small fast hit and run gangs or bring the fleet or even bring the blob if they want your space and put cloaky alts in your systems as cyno's/scouts for intel( when u forming and ship types) or just the random kill from time to time

its a valid tactic in eve warfare and tbfh you should be doing the same to your enemys instead of whineing for ccp to change things to suit you

if you cant handle it gtfo tbh


edit: some of you whineing pansys should come live in losec and see how it really is but seems like most 0.0 are whineing carebares who just wana be safe behind see of blue

rember anywere in eve the moment you undock you are a possible target

My only issue with cloaks is the absolute lack of a counter. Every other form of defence/ECM has a counter that at least reduces the effectiveness of the tactic.

THIS is active gameplay. Not crying to CCP to change a consolidated and working game mechanic only cause we're too lazy or unable to deal with it.

what lack of a counter?? Anyone with more than 1 week in 0.0 know how to counter.

Bait.
Send a juicy drake in ratter camuflage and when the evil cloacker show up to gank place a point and call your friends.
Just to say the most obvious counter.

And yes, can requires days, but still fun. Outplay him on the psycological level and make him fall in your trap. THIS is active gameplay. Not crying to CCP to change a consolidated and working game mechanic only cause we're too lazy or unable to deal with it.

being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard

the whole point is to eliminate afk cloakers! not the mechanics behind them! you can still use cloaks as they were intended and more! just not while being AFK for a long period of time!

I don't know why this is such a hard concept for many to understand?

it's irrenlavent because my argument inst about reds making locals paranoid its about addressing being AFK

You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

why are you logging into eve just to remain afk?

My only issue with cloaks is the absolute lack of a counter. Every other form of defence/ECM has a counter that at least reduces the effectiveness of the tactic.

Why not have a, very expensive/hard to build/skill intensive, probe or module that lets you scan down a cloaked ship. If you make the cloaked ship have a very small sig it would be challenging to get a warp in quickly which means the alert cloaker would have time to warp to a new safe or log off. Once on grid the hunters would need to get close enough to actually decloak the cloaker so it would still be challenging for the hunters while encouraging active gameplay by both sides which seems to me to be what we all should want.

How about we remove local then if there afk u can't see them so u don't care!

If u cant see them how can u know to hide in station/pos.

again why would you decide to go AFK? why would you get an advantage over someone that logged off as opposed to someone deciding to go AFK for a while?

AFK cloaking the problem that isn't a problem while we're heading for page 9!

it's irrenlavent because my argument inst about reds making locals paranoid its about addressing being AFK

so far only one person has been able to understand the whole point of this thread.

And why would a cloaker attack a lone drake when he wants to bomb a mining op or light a cyno for a hotdrop? I'm interested in actual gameplay not in some wild fantasy where a guy wastes hours on end to pick up a Drake KM..

Omg, was only a damned example, since the discussion was about AFK cloackers denying ratting. But can adapt the concept, don't have to litteraly send out a drake everytime there's someone cloacked! The sense was: find a proper way to make him decloack in a situation where you can trap him.

And since when bombing a mining op or hotdropping a fleet is not "active gameplay"??

The only problem yhis thread (as many others of the same kind) adress is the inability for few players to accept the idea (a base idea in EvE) that their gameplay can be influenced by other players and their will to negate any challange and any kind of player to player interaction if not with their consent and in their specific terms.

So, instead of adapting and putting some gameplay effort the only way they find "to counter" is sitting in station doing nothing and asking for CCP to do the job they're too lazy or too inable to do, adding/nerfing some well-known, consolidated amd fun for the rest of EvE, game mechanic.

Not agreeing with you is not the same as not understanding.

You think there is a problem with AFK cloaking.

There is not.

I agree with op, afk cloaking blows.


Afk cloaking usually hurts smaller nullsec corps to which is horrible in my opinion anyway.


The argument that afk cloakers are not hurting anyone therefore no one should be able to hurt them is pretty stupid.

Afk cloakers clearly hurt industry and ratting in system that they afk in (pretty obvious, that there action of afk cloaking does serious damage)

1. I propose that afk cloakers have a 10 minute penalty to lighting a cyno after they uncloak (unless they switch systems, dock, or perform any type of related change) (the penalty would only come into effect after 15 minutes of continuous cloaking)



This would make it so afk cloakers are really only dangerous for the first 15 minutes logged in, or in your system. (ofcourse they are still dangerous as they can uncloak and tackle or gather intelligence


or


make it so all characters show up on the account under bio or another tab, so afk cloakers can no longer use anonymity to harass null sec operations.

Sigh.... this topic again.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CLOAKING MECHANIC!

The only problem is how people react (OR lack of proper reaction)

Nullbear see cloaker and instead of going -
"Hey guys theres a enemy cloaked in our system, lets bait him / trap him / form a fleet in the next system / ANY other idea"

No, instead the nullbear goes - "Waaaahhh theres a cloaker , im going to go dock up as im scared of what he might do to me"

never even realising he could just move a jump or two over or try and kill that cloaker.

Its sad and pathetic.

Two better options:

A. Remove local from nullsec

...but since they couldn't find fights or use their bots and will ragequit, plan B:


B. Make cynos only mountable on BLOPS, change the skill from 5x to 8x, and add Electromagnetic Physics V to prerequisites.

This should deal with the general power projection problem as well.

no.

another interesting good idea

ItGÇÖs about going AFK and abusing the use of the cloak!

Nothing I have proposed would change the cloak as it stands!

The same arguments are being used again and again for no reason

3 simple things. Just 3


1 - let me hunt them, give me probes or special cov ops ship with special probes....would love to hunt em

2 - make cloak consume fuel not gazillion gallons, but say 1hr or 2hr worth of ozone or something like that

3 - cycle the cloak....don't let it run forever - force a reactivation.

My personal preference is to have new tools to hunt cloakies ... But fuel would also provide reasonable limits on them.

~R~

Actually for the most part youGÇÖre just trying to justify playing eve while AFK! The whole point of eve is to play! Why do you think CCP have tried so hard to eliminate the AFK players! When I ask you why players engage in these tactics itGÇÖs not always done just to annoy others! ThereGÇÖs a lot of isk to be made while doing so!

Thread moved to the]Features & Ideas Discussion

May it rest in peace there

GǪand those are issues, why exactly? How is the cloak being abused?

You mean aside from the idea you proposed in the OP?

Well, why don't you stop doing that then and instead start to address the many many issues people have been bringing forth about your ideas? Why don't you start answering the fundamental questions about this whole problem you're seeing?

Since the OP is not actually seriously discussing things we point out are a problem with any of his ideas and instead is just parroting the same old overused material, let's get down to his level and do something similar.

If you remove cloaked ships from local AND add a 15 sec timer for decloaking (which does make you show up in local before you actually decloak) if last cloaking session lasted more than 15 seconds, how can an AFK cloaker hurt you AT ALL anymore ?

He sure as hell can't make you afraid anymore (the only thing he was actually doing before while actually AFK).
You can still see him in local before he can do anything, and now you know he's not AFK anymore since he had to manually cut the cloak (before, you had no idea when he was AFK vs when he was ATK).
If he doesn't cloak (so is still showing up in local) you know you can find him and kill him (so no problem at all).
Essentially, he's pretty much the same thing as a logged-off person as long as he's actually AFK.

What problem would still remain AT ALL regarding AFK cloaking with that change ?
No, seriously, is there ANY problem left if you do that ? ANY sort of drawback for ANYBODY ? What exactly is it ?

And I know exactly why players afk cloak in a ratting system. Yeah, it's annoying. When that happens to me I move to another system. You don't see me crying on the boards about afk cloakers, because I think it's a valid tactic. It's psychological warfare.

If it's irrelevant, then why do you talk about it?

Let's see what you said shall we.
So if your gripe is about affecting the game whilst AFK, please tell us just what mechanic they are using to do just that?

I have said numerous times already your and others attempt to redirect the thread is getting beyond the joke now!

I'm not avoiding your line of questions! I'm only allowed certain quotes per day on these threads, please don't make the mistake of believing you're important enough to always warrant answers!

and what mechanic are they using again? well the fact their allowed to remain AFK while cloaked!

its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

again why would you decide to go AFK? why would you get an advantage over someone that logged off as opposed to someone deciding to go AFK for a while?

again another attempt to misdirect the thread!
remember my first post?

Hey guys I know this topic has been done to death but between the tears and the anger allow me to add my two cents worth!
AKF cloakerGÇÖs loveGÇÖem! hateGÇÖem! Live in a worm-hole donGÇÖt care? But are they here to stay?

WeGÇÖre all aware of CCPGÇÖS stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?

Now I'm fully aware of the arguments from both camps on this issue! I love playing eve just as much as you and donGÇÖt want changes set to ruin anyoneGÇÖs gaming experience! So IGÇÖll attempt to resolve this annoying issue!
Cloaks are used for many reasons ranging from reconnaissance to ganking or just plain saving your arse! But were they intended for going hours, days or even sometime weeks while AFK?

So what is there purpose! Well ask anyone in null sec mining or ratting and theyGÇÖll tell you! While docked up of course! But to the uninitiated there used to disrupt null sec operations! Recovering from loses during days of battle is a big issue in null and thereGÇÖs plenty of resources to make it worth your while! Hence AFK cloakers.

And now for the solution!

Without destroying cloaking altogether! I propose a POS structure (one per system) to be built only by those with sovereignty and to be fuelled via the same POS fuel that keeps the shields up to be used to detect cloaks. This structure will be on a timer (one hour for example) and once activated will consume 90 precent of your POS fuel! (Or a given amount) This will eliminate spamming the detect button and will allow the cloakers to move to another safe spot with time to spare!
So as not to give the cloaker too much of a disadvantage! The cloaker will be made aware of this device once activated and will allow him or her to move along! This will eliminate the AFK cloaker and will stop others from spamming the detect button given the fuel and time restrictions!

Please if you have any constructive feedback youGÇÖre more than welcome to add to my suggestions! IGÇÖll be forwarding this to CCP once I'm satisfied it passed the player test.

First off, as the thread title suggests, I am in favor of the cloak mechanics as they currently stand, just want to put that out there. That said, here is a solution that I believe is amicable to both sides of the debate:

Cloak Jamming Array

-The Cloak Jamming Array is a POS module that becomes available at Sovereignty Level 3.
-It requires a Cloak Jamming Array Upgrade to be installed in the IHUB of the system.
-The upkeep costs for this upgrade costs 600,000,000 ISK per 30 day period.
-The Cloak Jamming Array takes 1 hour to online.

Effect:

The Cloak Jamming Array prohibits the usage of ANY cloaking devices in system, as long as it is online. That means FRIENDLY and ENEMY. If an alliance decides to install this module, NO ONE will be able to cloak in the system.

My Argument:

-We've heard the cries for years about AFK cloakers and the psychological effect they have. Personally, I think this is a perfectly valid tactic and effect, regardless of whether or not it rewards "doing stuff" vs "not doing stuff." That said, there is currently no counter to this activity, except for catching the cloaker moving between systems or during an attack on a friendly.

-The Cloak Jamming Array would disable the use of cloaks for ALL PARTIES, and its long online time would prohibit leaving it offline until needed.

-The tactical advantage of a Cloak Jamming Array comes at a tactical price: friendlies cannot cloak either, meaning no cloaking titans, haulers, carriers, super carriers, probe ships, T3s, stealth bombers, recons, battleships, or anything else for that matter for ANYONE.

-The upkeep cost of the module makes it prohibitively expensive to deploy widely, usage would probably be limited to very select systems, in the same way Cynosural Jammers are today. Even if cost is not an issue, the tactical disadvantage to the defenders own alliance will limit deployment.

Conclusion:

As I stated in the introduction, I have no problem with current mechanics with regard to cloaking. This idea was more born from talking with people that did, and finding a solution that I believe is fair to both sides. For example, when a POS in your system is being attacked by a large battleship gang, and you and 5 of your friends only have stealth bombers to defend with, you might wish you hadn't installed the Cloak Jamming Array. Alternatives to this plan include: increasing the online time to 5 hours, or rather than a POS module, simply installing the upgrade creates the effect, and it cannot be done away with without getting rid of the upgrade.

Thoughts? (And rather than just saying "NO!" explain why.)

there is no checks and balances for it. like in eve, everything has a counter.

peeps talk about system decloaking, which come to think about, it might be a lil much.

but what about an advanced skill of scanning?

make it a higher ranking scanning skill. anyone in system actively using a cloaking device emits high gravity (or electronic, take yer pic) emmissions (bending of light around your ship).

what about a new scanner that needs alot of training and alot of power/cpu that scans for this signature?
it could require all 5's in scanning and have an 8x training multiplier. it would get say a bonus per level and even at maxed out skillz, it would be VERY difficult to track one down (maybe 10% at best maxed out). so at rank one, you might have a 2% chance which means you will be trying all day to land on someone and decloak them. you could be off by 2002 meters and it would not decloak them (2k to decloak).

maybe a new cruiser/bc sized ship or greater would be needed and it would be costly. lots of skills involved.

there would be a way to counter it. just cloak and move forward. when someone locks you, they will show up to where u were and not decloak u.
but if one forgets and just cloaks up...maybe, just maybe they will be pouced.

it would give those who want a way to find the afk cloakers a "chance" (even if its a lotto chance) to find their nemesis and assist him in a free ride home.