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Skill for Insta's? (Sorry for the dup post)

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Clutch Cargo	Posted - 2005.05.28 19:31:00 - [31] Quote: Actually I am an Industrialist and if you have any inkling in what that is it means I have to do a lot of Industrial ship flying. ... <SNIP> No offense but those comment were not specifically about you. Most posts on these forums, for or against something, are usually by people with some vested interest. Gank gankers want instas removed. Apoc pilots want Ravens nerfed etc. I could make my hauling very safe by doing it in a frigate. I could make a couple dozen trips instead of just one. The idea that I should waste cargo space to the sake of speed is useless, especially when you figure that the speed gain is going to be what 100 or so m/s? Wow that will cut a whole 20% off the time it takes to approach a gate...impressive. The point of any game, MMO or other, is to have fun. If I am spending 90% of the game doing RL stuff while I wait to get where I'm supposed to be going, does not constitute fun. If you enjoy the whole, jumping...warping...approaching...jumping thing so much that you would like for it to be longer good for you...I don't. Based on the fact that most people use instas I can safely say that I am not in the minority, which is the general point I would like to make. Travel = boredom = no fun. Make travel more boring and you are sure to have issues in the future.
Signatar	Posted - 2005.05.28 19:49:00 - [32] Well, my only reply to that is, Clutch, if you feel that the isk is not worth the travel for hauling than perhaps you should find another career path in EVE to enjoy that does not require much Industrial ship flying. Also, you'd be surprised how fast you can travel in a speed efficient hauler. You would find yourself completing the trip of a one way slow cargo-expanding hauler as twice as fast by using speed mods and not using the cargo expanders and just normal cargohold and doing it in two trips. This is of course going off the notion of not using the bookmarks on the slow indy. Oveur has stated he wants to fix the insta-jump problem as it is hindering the natural gameplay that was intended. He did mention though that if it was wanted that he would come up with a module that would align your ship closer to the gate. I think its a fair trade in my opinion. If you want something that is close to ultimately safe traveling through and through, you should sacrifice module slots for it. The DEV's never intended for bookmarks to become the widely used insta-jump and insta-dock features they are now used by the player base. Their intentions were to be able to bookmark Points of Interests in space during your travels and as well as getting into mission areas. The insta-jump and insta-dock are byproducts, not intentional features. Even Safe spot bookmarks are a byproduct and not an intentional feature.
Signatar	Posted - 2005.05.28 19:53:00 - [33] Also, I guess I should comment about how I am neither for nor against the removal of bookmarks. I just know that if they are removed or changed in some way around stargates and stations that I will survive in the end and still get around from 700 to 800 m/s in my haulers. There are options. Always.
Clutch Cargo	Posted - 2005.05.28 20:30:00 - [34] Signatar: I will be following your suggestion and do some more detailed experiments with mods. I am sure that it is inevitable that instas will be going bye bye, so it's good to adapt to it before it happens. But wouldn't removing the ability to create instas remove the ability to create bookmarks altogether or would they just eliminate the ability to create one near an object? Does this mean safespots will be gone as well?
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.05.28 20:38:00 - [35] Edited by: Grim Vandal on 28/05/2005 20:40:08 instas need to be removed... nuff said this game will NEVER get a 1337 status as long as: instas are ingame and as long as local stays the same I refuse to post the reasons for it over and over again... if you dont know them then you are a fool! edit: btw nearly forgot to mention that a skill would be the worst idea ever... even a module would suck... they need to be removed nothing else! Greetings Grim
Clutch Cargo	Posted - 2005.05.28 20:51:00 - [36] Edited by: Clutch Cargo on 28/05/2005 20:51:42 Feel pretty strongly about it don't ya
Kai Lae	Posted - 2005.05.28 21:16:00 - [37] Originally by: SghnDubh Edited by: SghnDubh on 28/05/2005 17:25:21 This thread looks like a Monty Python skit: John: "I'd like to have an argument about insta's, please." Terry: "No you wouldn't." John: "Yes I would." Terry: "No you wouldn't." John: "Look, this isn't an argument. It's just contradiction!" Should I send Hstaphath to this thread SD? On another note there's nothing wrong with instas; until the devs pointed out they cause server load I never saw any reason to change them. They speed up travel - and frankly there's a lot of travel in eve - and also allow for greater safety. The problem with instas is that there isn't an effective counter to them, and that's what needs to be addressed.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.05.28 21:25:00 - [38] Signatar, Some damn goods posts, I'm glad to see that somone actually seems to get it. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
BlackPlague	Posted - 2005.05.28 22:34:00 - [39] Insta's are fine. If it's not broken, why fukk with it? The whine'n is mostly a couple of players who are too lazy to jump on other side to get the gank. Drop a bubble down or jump through with them - and for gawds sake, quit the whine'n about instas! My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo!
Trepkos	Posted - 2005.05.28 23:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Grim Vandal Edited by: Grim Vandal on 28/05/2005 20:40:08 instas need to be removed... nuff said this game will NEVER get a 1337 status as long as: instas are ingame and as long as local stays the same I refuse to post the reasons for it over and over again... if you dont know them then you are a fool! edit: btw nearly forgot to mention that a skill would be the worst idea ever... even a module would suck... they need to be removed nothing else! Shhhhh.... ------------------ What can I lose? My dignity...every single inch of it.

Burnhard Brutor	Posted - 2005.05.29 00:24:00 - [41] It's ironic but if the idea is only to reduce server load, then by all means remove instas. Players will quit and therefore server load will be reduced ;)
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.29 00:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Burnhard Brutor It's ironic but if the idea is only to reduce server load, then by all means remove instas. Players will quit and therefore server load will be reduced ;) They will be replaced...but not missed. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Admiral Pieg	Posted - 2005.05.29 03:36:00 - [43] Problem with this is that everyone will just train it to 5 creating yet another timesink. Im sure ccp will love your idea but well be back at square one again a month after. Bookmarks need to go, the reasons have been stated and the counter arguments are weak and biased. ______________________ Pod from above.
MrMen	Posted - 2005.05.29 04:35:00 - [44] Edited by: MrMen on 29/05/2005 04:36:00 Hmmm, i was sitting here in my drunken state, reading yet another "insta's" thread, so i thought id post. Ok well ive played for well over a year, but not a beta vet, but i still cant see a valid argument for the nerfing of "insta's". Yes i use them reasonably often and have been hunted by other pilots using them while i was not. Through my experiences a decent camp (in 0.0 space using warp bubbles) is more than capable of doing the job...ok u might miss the odd one, but thats life. In reply to the "pre-highway" coment about travel times...yes its quicker now, but surely making travel slower would just make new players less likely to stick with the game, and simply stating that eve would be better without them is simply inane. Don't get me wrong im not saying that insta's are right or wrong, just that if u simply remove them without any other aditions to the game mechanics, it wont work. Yes i realise this thread was an attempt at an alternative....this post was primarily directed at those that shouted no ps: damm didnt mean to post with alt...grr wish ccp would default to main
Clutch Cargo	Posted - 2005.05.29 04:40:00 - [45] Quote: Bookmarks need to go, the reasons have been stated and the counter arguments are weak and biased. lol and the reasons for removing them (other than server load issues) are not weak and/or biased? Muhahaha
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.29 04:57:00 - [46] Why not make every ship go 1000 m/s base speed? ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Andrue	Posted - 2005.05.29 10:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Signatar Wow. A lot of the posters here have absolutely NO clue about space travel and how bad it was before SuperHighway Stargates, before the warp ship speed was increased, and before ships had increased speed. Hmmm. While you're visiting memory lane (nice rose tinted glasses btw) remind me - how many subscribers did Eve have back then? I don't actually mind the idea too much myself but I know that most people will hate it. Not everyone sees playing Eve as a part time activity. Quite a lot of people (most, probably) want to be interacting while they are playing. I can chat, watch TV and surf the web as I do when mining but that is not everyone's idea of enough fun to justify paying a subscription. You want to go back to being amazed at 5,000 players on a Sunday night? Fine - just nerf travel and you'll get your wish. I think a module is a good idea. It will require a new skill to be learnt which is good but more importantly it'll force people to make another choice. Kit out for combat or fast travel. I'm only not sure if a hauler should be able to fit one in a spare slot or if it should require the hauler to forgoe a couple of expanders. At present if you dedicate your low slots to agility you don't need instas anyway. I only use them when I have expanders fitted on my Bestower. On the way back I use nanos at get 650ms which is fine for me in Empire. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Claude Leon	Posted - 2005.05.29 18:50:00 - [48] Originally by: Clutch Cargo Quote: Bookmarks need to go, the reasons have been stated and the counter arguments are weak and biased. lol and the reasons for removing them (other than server load issues) are not weak and/or biased? Muhahaha No, actually the people wanting insta's to stay have not came up with any valid counter-arguments. ===================================================
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.05.29 19:22:00 - [49] One of the arguments for removing them is the ability of large fleets to travel through 4-5 regions real fast. Removing insta's won't fix that, as you will just end up positioning inties or covert ops ships on the gates and warp to them. Making insta's require a skill is stupid as well, since every serious player would simply be forced to train it. I remind you CCP changed the visibility skill to only affect remote sell orders to prevent it becoming a 'must train to 4' skill. ------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?"
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux One of the arguments for removing them is the ability of large fleets to travel through 4-5 regions real fast. Removing insta's won't fix that, as you will just end up positioning inties or covert ops ships on the gates and warp to them. But at least that would require teamwork and cooperation. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?

2ippy	Posted - 2005.05.29 20:57:00 - [51] Edited by: 2ippy on 29/05/2005 20:57:56 Instas should be removed but then gate ganking would require a fix. A module isn't a bad idea but would still allow ganking. Using multiple sensor type(s) penialisation needs to be nuked, and also a idea to add anti missile defences to gates sents do they can stop some but not all missiles. If the sents range is 100k for example then they should sit off the gate at 100k so they have a 200k range from gate, just a example. Most gate campers can't take the sents for long so there would always be a oppertunity for ppl to get through. I think a fix should be intoduced and tested live and tweaked b4 insta's are removed, if they are removed. You feeling very sleepy..I am your master..you will buy me a t2 item.. Alternative Territorial Map 2.6.05
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.05.29 21:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux One of the arguments for removing them is the ability of large fleets to travel through 4-5 regions real fast. Removing insta's won't fix that, as you will just end up positioning inties or covert ops ships on the gates and warp to them. But at least that would require teamwork and cooperation. And it's completely unviable when the enemy are sitting on the gate. It turns combat into a COMPLETE numbers game, because you CANNOT escape in most situations if you have smaller numbers. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:26:00 - [53] simplest solution to this instajumping would be to have all gates have their own tiny warp disruptor bubble (say 3km radius), could even be Roleplayed that the stargate' gravitational effects interfere with the warp drive preventing ships from warping so close to the gate, insta's would still exist and cut your travel time significantly still (from 15km down to 3km from a gate), no more right on top of gate kinda thing and perhaps its also nice for the pirates if your target once inside the "bubble" can't escape without either flying out of it or jumping through. ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2005.05.29 22:56:00 - [54] As I said in another post - Game killer. It's already difficult enough for nuub players and even 'relatively inexperienced' players. Adding yet further LONG skills would be like painting huge targets on them... for MONTHS. I agree that a skill like this could be implemented... but make it a rank 1 skill. And watch the training stats the day it's posted to the market: 99% of the active characters would suddenly be fixated on this skill until it was at 5. Poor nuubs who already have a library of 'must train' skills would just look at this one more 'train this or die at every gate' skill and throw their arms up with a FUKIT, and go to some other game.
Judas Kirk	Posted - 2005.05.29 23:26:00 - [55] Quote: in an Industrial ship means high capacitor output, high capacitor recharge, and the right fittings. And what's the max speed of an industrial ship, even with the right fittings? 2 maybe 300 m/s. Even that is a sloow..sloow crawl to the gate. You may have hours and hours to crawl to gates, but I have to squeeze my playtime between all the various demands of RL. I like to spend it actually doing things like mining and fighting, not crawling to gates. Instas mean I get to do this. Crawling to gates to fit some people's perspective of gameplay is absurd and takes all the fun away
SPIONKOP	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:01:00 - [56] I wish the devs would comment on this, too much bad blood over the issue and both sides divided like no other issue since the game was launched. But here are my comments yet again. There are those that want insta's nefered and the only reason they want them nerfed is so they can shoot pilots approaching gates. Question. I am in a hauler or even a barge, 0.3 space with afterburner and no expanders I warp to gate at 15k. How far will I travel before I am toast. 2k, 3k? If the gankers don't get me then maybe the NPC's will. As for those folks in 0.0 space your travel time will double or triple and you face even greater risks than I do and you sure need to travel far. For those folks mining, insta can/haul/dock neft will reduce your yeild. I will be honest in that I am totally 100% selfish in that I do not play Eve to get killed. Every time i go into 0.4 and below I risk it, but I manage those risks with instas. No instas then the risks are too great. Whilst I can afford the odd loss I can't afford increased loss's. Take away 0.4 space from me and I my income within Eve will fall. I will also have less fun, travel time will increase thus adding to the tedious parts of eve, thus leading to less fun. In the end I and many others will just pack the damn thing in. As far as I can see the only people that want insta's removed are those with the BFG at the gate. *******s to you. If the devs are worried about sever load with the million bookmarks then simple allow insta jump/dock when warping to gate/station and allow the gankers to set up bubbles in 0.4 and below so long as they get a sec hit for doing so. This will still increase my risk but at least it give me a target to shoot.
Sakura Yoshida	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:27:00 - [57] i've only been playing eve for a little while, and i havent made any instas, because it's boooring, i tend to stay around one system unless i'm hunting with friends, because then i can use theirs, i'd use a faster ship, but the thing is, i don't have a chance in anything smaller than a battleship, other players will just tear me apart, and cruisers arent much faster. i really like eve, but i havent felt like doing anything lately, because it either takes too long, or is really boring. :( I like drawing www.technoweyr.co.uk/~stush :D
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux One of the arguments for removing them is the ability of large fleets to travel through 4-5 regions real fast. Removing insta's won't fix that, as you will just end up positioning inties or covert ops ships on the gates and warp to them. But at least that would require teamwork and cooperation. And it's completely unviable when the enemy are sitting on the gate. It turns combat into a COMPLETE numbers game, because you CANNOT escape in most situations if you have smaller numbers. So you are telling me BNC only wins with numbers? ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss What is your Radical Dream?
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:30:00 - [59] Originally by: SPIONKOP I wish the devs would comment on this, too much bad blood over the issue and both sides divided like no other issue since the game was launched. But here are my comments yet again.snip They have at times, check latest devchat on omgrawr.net, they mention insta's(which is what spurred this recent influx of nerf insta threads btw, next to the short mention in a dev blog). You think people read properly ? It would be nearly pointless to respond as a Dev sadly as most people won't read what it says, don't you just love individuality ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.05.30 00:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux One of the arguments for removing them is the ability of large fleets to travel through 4-5 regions real fast. Removing insta's won't fix that, as you will just end up positioning inties or covert ops ships on the gates and warp to them. But at least that would require teamwork and cooperation. And it's completely unviable when the enemy are sitting on the gate. It turns combat into a COMPLETE numbers game, because you CANNOT escape in most situations if you have smaller numbers. So you are telling me BNC only wins with numbers? No, I'm telling you that you're trying to remove elements of player skill from the game. If you think your corp's "salty", drop by Delve and we'll educate you on the finer points of PvP. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"



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