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SghnDubh
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Posted - 2005.05.28 05:15:00 -
[1]
Sorry for the repeat post, but it might get buried in another thread and I'd like some opinions (oh and please some flames too, because hey, it's entertaining) about this.
The only way to BE FAIR with instas is to randomize the point at which a person drops out of warp. Maybe there should be a skill: Pinpoint Warping.
Pinpoint Warping Level 0: (Haven't trained the skill): Random "landing point" between 10 and 15km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 1: Random landing point between 8 and 10km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 2: Random landing point between 6 and 9km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 3: Random landing point between 4 and 7km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 4: Random landing point between 2 and 5km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 5: Random landing point between 1 and 4km from your bookmark. Since a gate activates at 2km, level 4 hypothetically is "close enough" and level 5 is more or less "insurance"
Pinpoint Warping
.....>Navigation 5
........>High Speed Maneuvering 5
........>Warp Drive Operation 5
Training Multiplyer x4
Perception, Spatial Awareness
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger...
Fight Smart: www.BattleClinic.com
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2005.05.28 05:39:00 -
[2]
I dont like it.
Devs just need to bite the bullet and give everyone insta jump and insta dock options when you warp.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.28 05:41:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Lord Frost
I dont like it.
Devs just need to bite the bullet and give everyone insta jump and insta dock options when you warp.
Worried?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
infused
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Posted - 2005.05.28 06:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lord Frost
I dont like it.
Devs just need to bite the bullet and give everyone insta jump and insta dock options when you warp.
Well, what is the problem with this?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
lordmix
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Posted - 2005.05.28 09:10:00 -
[5]
i maybe missing the point here but why fix something which is not broken??
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Nifel
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Posted - 2005.05.28 09:25:00 -
[6]
Because it is broken?
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." |
lordmix
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Posted - 2005.05.28 09:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nifel
Because it is broken?
How is it broken? what because someone insta's passed your camp? hmm use a bubble or jump after them. (if you cant kill them on other side because its empire, camp a gate deep in 0.0.
with out insta or something which works nely the same, eve will die because who will wanna fly ships very far to do anything, people dont wanna spend hours traveling.
lordmix
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Skyraker7
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Posted - 2005.05.28 09:54:00 -
[8]
@Lordmix
Agreed, this problem would go away if they just made Bubbles work.... between gates... you'd have to pick your warp out point very carefully....
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.05.28 10:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Skyraker7
@Lordmix
Agreed, this problem would go away if they just made Bubbles work.... between gates... you'd have to pick your warp out point very carefully....
**** no, not between gates.
__________
Capacitor research |
Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.05.28 10:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: SghnDubh
Sorry for the repeat post, but it might get buried in another thread and I'd like some opinions (oh and please some flames too, because hey, it's entertaining) about this.
The only way to BE FAIR with instas is to randomize the point at which a person drops out of warp. Maybe there should be a skill: Pinpoint Warping.
Pinpoint Warping Level 0: (Haven't trained the skill): Random "landing point" between 10 and 15km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 1: Random landing point between 8 and 10km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 2: Random landing point between 6 and 9km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 3: Random landing point between 4 and 7km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 4: Random landing point between 2 and 5km from your bookmark.
Pinpoint Warping Level 5: Random landing point between 1 and 4km from your bookmark. Since a gate activates at 2km, level 4 hypothetically is "close enough" and level 5 is more or less "insurance"
Pinpoint Warping
.....>Navigation 5
........>High Speed Maneuvering 5
........>Warp Drive Operation 5
Training Multiplyer x4
Perception, Spatial Awareness
Well, that skill and the prereqs is hardly fair to newer players. It would take them six months realistically before they could prioritize a skill with 3! level 5 prereqs. It also does not stop the whining about instajumps, since this skill would be trained to level 5 by all serious players as soon as possible.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
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Jayad
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Posted - 2005.05.28 10:55:00 -
[11]
Instas should never be controled purely by skills.
This is bad because every pvper/industrialist in 0.0 will train these skills up to the max (as a priority). Ability to jump instantly is most important, for this reason once everyone has the skills your back to square one.
the modual idea in conjunction with skills is the best ive seen.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:18:00 -
[12]
I liked my idea that the sentries would shoot anything that warped closer than 10 km to protect the gate.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
galadrien
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:27:00 -
[13]
I would rather see a new skill and set of deployables that, when deployed, can interfere with the Tracking systems of the Warp Jump computers, making the Deployable "attract" warpers to it. Not too far range, maybe 50km, and easily seen and destroyable.
So if your blockading a gate, you drop a Warp Homing Beacon I'll call it. Someone jumping to the gate will have a chance of their destination being confused, and overridden by the beacon, dropping them where the beacon is, instead of their gate/dock.
Honestly, something like this should have always existed under Electonic Warfare. Masking a Beacon to look like their intended destination.
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tobiaz on 28/05/2005 13:56:47
No, skills for a basic thing like this is simply bad idea.
Warp in distance to 5km, no more instas within 300km of a stellar object. You can either use inties, or slingshot scouts if you still want to travel quickly.
The endless stacking of sensor boosting equipment needs to be nerfed though since that will still mean instadeath for all ships when a boosted tempest can pod an inty pilot under two seconds if he has a booster alt.
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:57:00 -
[15]
maybee just have a skill and a module that decreases your minimum warp in distance to aminimum of say 5 km. Giving gankers a chance to attack you but at same time making traveling easier and a bit faster for you.
On a side note i read in a dev post this is exactly whats going to happen exept the module is called a nav computer and its a high slot item. So soon we may no longer need insta jump bookmarks, as the main excus efor them is the time it takes to travel.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2005.05.28 14:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: lordmix
Originally by: Nifel
Because it is broken?
How is it broken? what because someone insta's passed your camp? hmm use a bubble or jump after them. (if you cant kill them on other side because its empire, camp a gate deep in 0.0.
with out insta or something which works nely the same, eve will die because who will wanna fly ships very far to do anything, people dont wanna spend hours traveling.
lordmix
What he said..
I really doubt there is a pilot whose been in the game for more than a couple months who doesn't have a few instas in their folders
Im up in Venal ATM and if I had to fly all the way from yulai to home without instas in an Iteron or a Raven I would be there for hours (assuming I didnt get ganked along the way) Who the hell wants to do that?
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Hmmm I need a Sig |
Burnhard Brutor
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Posted - 2005.05.28 14:11:00 -
[17]
imho this is freaking ridiculous. The main point of instas is in making travel quicker, not in avoiding gate camps. Gate camps will generally catch you "departing" rather than "arriving" in any case and instas are no use there. Well placed bubbles catch "arriving". Travel in Eve is the ultimate in video-game playing tedium. Removing instas would increase the tedium by an order of magnitude.
I can honestly say, without instas or even the 5km jump, you will effectively STOP region travel (I'm in 0.0, I really, honestly CAN'T BE ARSED to go back to empire because it takes so long to jump there or conversely, I'm in Empire and I really can't be arsed to head out to 0.0 because it takes so long to get there). Even with a good set of instas, it takes an age, so you need better options for faster travel, all of which will be complained about by people who just want to gank you. Impasse. 
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.05.28 15:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: lordmix
Originally by: Nifel
Because it is broken?
How is it broken? what because someone insta's passed your camp? hmm use a bubble or jump after them. (if you cant kill them on other side because its empire, camp a gate deep in 0.0.
with out insta or something which works nely the same, eve will die because who will wanna fly ships very far to do anything, people dont wanna spend hours traveling.
lordmix
I seconed this post ^
this here's mah sig':
My Quote:
"You can call me a carebear all you want, but your still an arrogant slimeball" |
Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.05.28 15:47:00 -
[19]
Quote:
imho this is freaking ridiculous. The main point of instas is in making travel quicker, not in avoiding gate camps. Gate camps will generally catch you "departing" rather than "arriving" in any case and instas are no use there. Well placed bubbles catch "arriving". Travel in Eve is the ultimate in video-game playing tedium. Removing instas would increase the tedium by an order of magnitude.
Amen.
Travel times are obnoxious, especially in a hauler. I use instas to trade around empire, removing them would just make that part of the game a bore. I'm not a big fan of CCP's (seemingly constant) desire to nerf something that is unbroken and then replace it with skill(s) (that bring it back to 50% or so capability with all new skills maxxed) and then say it's "adding content".
I understand the server load issue with everyone have hundreds of bookmarks. That can be solved by having the client handle them.
I very seldom go into 0.0, so my post has nothing to do with gankers and griefers, it simply has to do with quality of play.
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Loviatar
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Posted - 2005.05.28 16:19:00 -
[20]
They should make all empire gates insta and all low sec normal, then kill the bookmarks.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.05.28 16:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Loviatar
They should make all empire gates insta and all low sec normal, then kill the bookmarks.
<sarcasm>That would be ideal. It would also stop the influx of players into 0.0</sarcasm>
Have you ever been into 0.0? I can't believe you have based on that post. 0.0 isn't a handful of systems on the outskirts of Empire. It's thousands of systems. Prevent instas in 0.0 and you'll kill off what little interest still remains there.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Signatar
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Posted - 2005.05.28 16:51:00 -
[22]
Wow. A lot of the posters here have absolutely NO clue about space travel and how bad it was before SuperHighway Stargates, before the warp ship speed was increased, and before ships had increased speed.
Here's an example for those complaining about space travel taking up too much time: Traveling from Ammold solarsystem in the Heimatar Region to Egbinger solarsystem in the Molden Heath Region took me TWO HOURS.
People traveled slow because speed modules were less and skills were not trained as they are now. There were NO SuperHighway Gates to get more access into Regions. If I remember correctly, it took 44 jumps between those two solar systems.
So IMO, I think you lot have no reason to complain. If you are flying a hauler and you are complaining its slow, deal with it or DON'T FLY IT. There are many ways to increase the speed of Haulers anyhow. You just have to train skills AND use the right fittings....Having the largest cargohold with max cargo expanders in your low slots sound awesome, but it also means you are sacrificing speed. It was YOUR choice to make that sacrifice. You would be better off to fit nanofibers which increases speed at the cost of structure hitpoints, but the haulers already have crappy structure HP as it is, losing a few more will not matter. Train your skills so you can use tech II 10 MN afterburners. The 40% increase ontop of what a tech I 10 MN AFB would give for speed increase makes a HUGE difference.
You can make it work, if you applied yourself in the game instead of complaining about it on the forums and harping on Dev's to make the game in your personal fashion.
It is like you want your cake and your neighbor's cake too.
I will repeat, because I believe there are few numbskulls on this thread. It took me TWO HOURS to travel from Ammold to Egbinger way back the beginning. Stop griping about how space travel is today.
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Klingz
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Posted - 2005.05.28 17:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Signatar
Wow. A lot of the posters here have absolutely NO clue about space travel and how bad it was before SuperHighway Stargates, before the warp ship speed was increased, and before ships had increased speed.
Here's an example for those complaining about space travel taking up too much time: Traveling from Ammold solarsystem in the Heimatar Region to Egbinger solarsystem in the Molden Heath Region took me TWO HOURS.
People traveled slow because speed modules were less and skills were not trained as they are now. There were NO SuperHighway Gates to get more access into Regions. If I remember correctly, it took 44 jumps between those two solar systems.
So IMO, I think you lot have no reason to complain. If you are flying a hauler and you are complaining its slow, deal with it or DON'T FLY IT. There are many ways to increase the speed of Haulers anyhow. You just have to train skills AND use the right fittings....Having the largest cargohold with max cargo expanders in your low slots sound awesome, but it also means you are sacrificing speed. It was YOUR choice to make that sacrifice. You would be better off to fit nanofibers which increases speed at the cost of structure hitpoints, but the haulers already have crappy structure HP as it is, losing a few more will not matter. Train your skills so you can use tech II 10 MN afterburners. The 40% increase ontop of what a tech I 10 MN AFB would give for speed increase makes a HUGE difference.
You can make it work, if you applied yourself in the game instead of complaining about it on the forums and harping on Dev's to make the game in your personal fashion.
It is like you want your cake and your neighbor's cake too.
I will repeat, because I believe there are few numbskulls on this thread. It took me TWO HOURS to travel from Ammold to Egbinger way back the beginning. Stop griping about how space travel is today.
Amen...
Couldnt said it better myself :)
Thank you Signatar for that.
Dozar Klingz
I smoke.... 
It's not easy to be green when you're small.
But it's worse to be a cowered when you're big.
Smokers are also humens... but not that long... |
SghnDubh
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Posted - 2005.05.28 17:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: SghnDubh on 28/05/2005 17:25:21
This thread looks like a Monty Python skit:
John: "I'd like to have an argument about insta's, please."
Terry: "No you wouldn't."
John: "Yes I would."
Terry: "No you wouldn't."
John: "Look, this isn't an argument. It's just contradiction!"
Puh-lease stop posting "Don't take away my insta's" and read the friggin logic underlying my assumptions   
I am not the poster-boy for killing insta's...I'm just suggesting a way to change them from a CHEAT to a viable feature in the game. The death of EVE will not be caused by modifying how bookmarks work. Rather, players would be more encouraged to team together in order to move merchandise and mins across great distance...ever hear of a hauler relay network? I believe based on my 10+ months of play that the architecture of EVE is designed to enhance and stimulate player-to-player interaction and dependence. Insta's are one way that this interaction is undermined.
The idea of gate-gun-sabotage enforcement is problematic IMO because it seems a bit too harsh.
EVE's about skills. If you want to take a quazillion-ton starship and "land" it within 1 meter of an arbitrary spot in the whole of the galaxy, I'm thinkin' you'd need some skill. Ok, sorry, point's made, horse is long dead, SghnDubh's off the soapbox now. 
edit-typo
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger...
Fight Smart: www.BattleClinic.com
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.05.28 17:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Loviatar
They should make all empire gates insta and all low sec normal, then kill the bookmarks.
<sarcasm>That would be ideal. It would also stop the influx of players into 0.0</sarcasm>
Have you ever been into 0.0? I can't believe you have based on that post. 0.0 isn't a handful of systems on the outskirts of Empire. It's thousands of systems. Prevent instas in 0.0 and you'll kill off what little interest still remains there.
No, it will just make 0.0 for the people who want it. Not for the ones only there to make a quick iskie.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
Lord Frost
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Posted - 2005.05.28 17:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Lord Frost
I dont like it.
Devs just need to bite the bullet and give everyone insta jump and insta dock options when you warp.
Worried?
Huh?
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Naos Zapatero
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Posted - 2005.05.28 17:52:00 -
[27]
Any change to instas will force an "exodus", of sorts...
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2005.05.28 18:05:00 -
[28]
There is nothing wrong with insta's. We need them or else 0.0 space will truely be dead. Defeating camps will be impossible and the idea of being able to block off hundreds of star systems spanning thousands of light years with half a dozen Battleships camping one jump gate is stupid to the extreme.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.05.28 18:07:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Wow. A lot of the posters here have absolutely NO clue about space travel and how bad it was before SuperHighway Stargates, before the warp ship speed was increased, and before ships had increased speed.
Here's an example for those complaining about space travel taking up too much time: Traveling from Ammold solarsystem in the Heimatar Region to Egbinger solarsystem in the Molden Heath Region took me TWO HOURS.
People traveled slow because speed modules were less and skills were not trained as they are now. There were NO SuperHighway Gates to get more access into Regions. If I remember correctly, it took 44 jumps between those two solar systems.
So IMO, I think you lot have no reason to complain. If you are flying a hauler and you are complaining its slow, deal with it or DON'T FLY IT. There are many ways to increase the speed of Haulers anyhow. You just have to train skills AND use the right fittings....Having the largest cargohold with max cargo expanders in your low slots sound awesome, but it also means you are sacrificing speed. It was YOUR choice to make that sacrifice. You would be better off to fit nanofibers which increases speed at the cost of structure hitpoints, but the haulers already have crappy structure HP as it is, losing a few more will not matter. Train your skills so you can use tech II 10 MN afterburners. The 40% increase ontop of what a tech I 10 MN AFB would give for speed increase makes a HUGE difference.
You can make it work, if you applied yourself in the game instead of complaining about it on the forums and harping on Dev's to make the game in your personal fashion.Rolling Eyes
It is like you want your cake and your neighbor's cake too.
I will repeat, because I believe there are few numbskulls on this thread. It took me TWO HOURS to travel from Ammold to Egbinger way back the beginning. Stop griping about how space travel is today.Evil or Very Mad
Non-sequiter and silly. Who cares about what it was like long long ago. So it was worse before, it still sucks now and taking instas out makes it worse.
It's always funny when inty pilots tell hauler pilots that gate approaches are not slow. It's funny when gate gankers tell noobs that there should be no instas in game. It's funny when Apoc pilots tell Raven pilots that Raven's need to be nerfed....yadda yadda yadda.
If you think travel in this game is speedy you are 1. flying a frig/inty or 2. a glutton for punishment.
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Signatar
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Posted - 2005.05.28 18:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Non-sequiter and silly. Who cares about what it was like long long ago. So it was worse before, it still sucks now and taking instas out makes it worse.
It's always funny when inty pilots tell hauler pilots that gate approaches are not slow. It's funny when gate gankers tell noobs that there should be no instas in game. It's funny when Apoc pilots tell Raven pilots that Raven's need to be nerfed....yadda yadda yadda.
If you think travel in this game is speedy you are 1. flying a frig/inty or 2. a glutton for punishment.
Actually I am an Industrialist and if you have any inkling in what that is it means I have to do a lot of Industrial ship flying. I do not have the skills to fly interceptors. I will tell you this about me. I trained up all my navigation and engineering skills to maximize my ability to get somewhere fast. Getting anywhere fast in an Industrial ship means high capacitor output, high capacitor recharge, and the right fittings.
Not to mention I just gave you an example of a good fitting to put on an indy. Quit assuming you know me and what I fly. Quit assuming you know what others fly by intrepreting their opinions just because they go against your train of thought. My recommendation for you is to get up off your lazy arse and learn how to fly fast instead of having others do it for you, or attempt to make the dev's do it for you.
And no, I am not a glutton for punishment, that extra speed I put into my ship from using nanofibers and sacrificing structure hp hardly affects how fast I am going to survive on the basis of the dependence of my ship's hitpoints to keep me alive. No matter what you put on tech 1 Industrials, you will never have enough shield/armor/structure hitpoints to survive for very long. Speed, agility, knowledgeable, and an alert Industrial flying pilot WILL survive.
If you lose a few haulers along the way while trying to figure out what is the best set up, its all apart of learning and understanding how the game works, how the players will fight against you, and how your mistakes can be corrected.
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