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Mutnin
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Posted - 2012.12.23 17:28:00 -
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ALUCARD 1208 wrote:what 2 yrs ago wen caldari could take every plex just after downtime with no resistance ya that was fair....... idiot
I never knew that Galente were not aloud to log in & undock after DT. Guess you learn something new each day.. |
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Posted - 2012.12.23 21:32:00 -
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Ahh so when it's bad for Caldari it's "Caldari's" fault but when it's bad for Gallente it's once again "Caldari's" fault.
When you guys have numbers advantage it's Caldari should recruit more blahh blahh blahh. When Caldari have numbers advantage it's obviously broken game mechanics that let us win.
I see where this is going..  |
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Posted - 2012.12.23 22:18:00 -
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Shaalira D'arc wrote:Mutnin wrote:Yet you cry about old plex mechanics as if it somehow gave Caldari a advantage, all the while ignoring the great advantage you now have as if 100s of farmer alts aren't doing the work for you. At least when Caldari took all your systems it was done people that were out there to have PVP, not armies of T1 frigs that run at first site of combat. Confirming that plexing alts never existed prior to Inferno, and that no one had ever speed-tanked Gallente and Amarrian plexes with stabbed, gun-less frigs using alts. Never ever. The big difference is that militia members now get paid for plexing and PvP, encouraging more people to regularly participate than that handful of die-hards (and their alts) who care a lot about dots on a map.
There was no where near the numbers there are today. Back then it was a limited handful of guys that had a few alts. Now you have hundreds of them running around so it's not even close to the same comparison. Added to this in the past even if they were alts their mains were still involved in FW and it's likely their main would show up for some PVP if you harassed the alts enough.
Now it's just ISK farmers that have little to nothing to do with FW and they just bounce around system to system til you get tired of chasing them.
It's not even remotely close to the same thing and you know it as much as I do, so why not quit the BS routine. It's almost as bad as when Gals claim Caldari has more active pilots than they do..
FW is broken more now than it's ever been at any time in the past. |
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Posted - 2012.12.24 10:42:00 -
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Crosi Wesdo wrote:
There is no evidence of farmer alts. The VP numbers are pretty even. These are complicated issues so i forgive you for being completely ignorant of them.
Is that supposed to be a dumb troll or have you just not undocked in the last 8 months? Anyone that tries to say there is no farmer alts is delusional at best or just a very bad troll. |
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Posted - 2012.12.24 11:02:00 -
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Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:
This is the sad fate of FW as it is now.......... and the other corps will get bored, but not before 90% of the Caldari and Amarr corps bail b/c it has become usless
It is only a mater of time before more and more Gal plex farmers looking for easy isk move into Amarr space, and then its over quick
I'll be shooting what I can till then.....
When Amarr held no space that's what Caldari had to deal with when we were still winning on our front. We had more Minmatar farmer alts in our space than Galentte PVPers. This is largely part of the reason Caldari lost most of it's space because you just couldn't defend against them and you got nothing if you did.
As Caldari loses it's space there will be no where for them to plex so they will just go to your space much like they came to ours when Amarr had nothing. Caldari actually went as far to start sending our guys to Amarr space in-order to try and flip systems to take the pressure off.
The whole system is broken, but don't expect CCP to fix it. They don't care if it's hundreds of ISK farmers spiking the activity they just look at the activity as more subscriptions. CCP knows they only keep subscriptions up, because of people paying by Plex. If people can't afford their 600 mil ISK Plex then they let their alt accounts expire which means CCP earns less money.
This is why they let the Scantum farming go on as long as they did, It's why they left LVL 5 missions in high sec as long as they did and it's why they left Incursion farming go as long as they did. FW is just the next farmville ad it will stay this way until the community bitches an moans about it long enough that they have to nerf it.
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Posted - 2012.12.24 14:01:00 -
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BrutalButFair wrote:Maybe it's mentioned, maybe it's me. But when a militia takes all oposing systems, what's there to farm? Without plexes no farming right?
They just move to the other side of the map and start farming Amarr systems. This is what happened when Minmatar took most of Amarr's systems and Caldari was doing well. We ended up with hoards of Minmatar alts farming Caldari systems.
That is what allowed the Gals to take back systems to the point of winning, because of the influx of Minmatar farmer alts. When Caldari had war zone control a few months ago it wasn't Gal plexers that brought them back it was Minmatar farmer alts.
Even if you start to get a upswing rolling like say what the Amarr managed to do, they still eventually get over run by the farmers from both Gal & Min. It's what you are seeing now in Amarr space. Even if Caldari start taking space back, it will end up with both Min & Gal farmers rolling in once they have nothing left in Amarr Space. |
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Posted - 2012.12.24 15:25:00 -
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Andre Vauban wrote:
The above will most likely happen. After that, Gal and Minnie LP/Isk ratio for racial items will tank to the point of worthless, while amarr/Caldari LP/isk ratio will rise for racial items. Some gal and Minnie corps will get bored and go to 0.0. Farmers will join amarr and Caldari because of the massive amount of plexes available and the good return on the racial items. The pendulum will then start to swing back the other way as the farming hoarde switches sides. This cycle will then repeat with nothing being able to stop the farmer hoarde.
I don't know if it will be enough value to turn the tide TBH. If you look at your Navy Comets they are not overly devalued compared to the other FW faction ships (in fact they are worth more than Hookbills) and things like the implants are available in each factions store, so they could become the baseline item that is sold no matter whom is winning.
Also look at how cheap the Navy Geddons were even when Amarr had no warzone control. It's price never really went up that much and it was a ship that was very popular with the l33t fancy fleet PVPers. I think once you have 2 sides that are allies dominating it's going to be near impossible for the other two sides to come back, simply because it's too easy for the farmers to flood to the other war zone and stop the progress.
In order for Amarr & Caldari to over power the force that the farmers bring they would both have to retake their warzone control at the same time. Outside this happening there is just far too many farmville alts to recover from.
I would like to hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it happening, now that you can no longer leave systems vulnerable in order to flip at a strategic time. That pretty much ended the farming flop flopping that we had going on at the time between Cal & Gals and pretty much placed the war zone control in hands of Gals by it's timing. |
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Posted - 2012.12.26 15:10:00 -
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Bad Messenger wrote:X Gallentius wrote:I think part of the LP faucet created by CCP was to make faction navy ships more affordable. Performance-wise they ought to be less expensive than their T2 counterparts and finally that is what is happening.
Edit: Also, the map better reflects reality now than before. Right now Gallente dominate most of the time and they now dominate the map. Caldari are still strong in Eha, Rakapas, and OMS/Ladi and it shows. Farmers really only affect the under populated regions of the FW where nobody lives and there is likely nothing that can be done about that other than reduce the size of the map. But then people would complain that the map is too small. What'cha gonna do? farmers do affect whole map, last reminants who still play FW on caldari side are tied up to defend those systems you mentioned because farmers keep them busy. They do it practically without rewards. Now if you wonder why we do not take more systems is that no one is willing to run alt horde on caldari side and do the basic plexing all around area keeping gallente defenders busy. Only thing that keeps gallente 'winning' is that all farmers are on their side, this is why FW does not work at all now, it is even worse than before inferno, CCP did not fix FW they broke it totally. Biggest **** up from CCP side was to bring some changes faster than others so CCP decided which side will get advantage. No point to fight war where game company favors one side, you can not really win it. Personally i am playing other games because EVE does not offer any activity that interest me at this moment, changing and bringing more ships does not really bring anything new to game.
Well to add to this with something that compounds it to a bigger problem and shows how flawed the system is. It's actually in Caldari's best interest not to take back any systems that are un-needed. Meaning Caldari is better off just to hold on to those few Core systems that they want to dock in.
By taking any non essential systems it just provides more places for the farmers to get isk. Just flying around Black Rise and you see loads of Gal controlled systems that are over 50% contested. They don't bother to defend those systems because they know it's not worthwhile to do so. It's better off to allow them to be flipped so they can farm away again.
This is the same tactics that Gals used when Caldari held most of the war zone control. At least now the systems can't be farmed past vulnerable, so by not flipping the systems back it ends the farmville. If Caldari are smart they wont flip systems back.
The whole pay by tier system is a dumb set up and has no legitimate means of being successful. It's always going to encourage farming for ISK rather than encourage PVP. |
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Posted - 2012.12.27 14:29:00 -
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Thomas Gore wrote:I was baffled that FW gives LP for PvE stuff, but then I realized FW isn't about PvP at all.
Shoot a member of the opposing militia and receive some hundred LP.
OR
Orbit a novice plex for 10 minutes and receive 32k LP.
I think CCP under-estimates the boredom-suffering skills of its playerbase.
Yes, it's rather ironic isn't it. I mean they said the reason they wouldn't give more LP for kills is because it could be abused and farmed. Umm Derp a Durrr..
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