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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2005.06.11 17:16:00 -
[271]
all the whiny little babies out there should travel to HED and ask those players how to THINK your way around the insta users. HED is a common spot for the warp bubble on the gate exits.
Lots of players get ganked there, and they were using insta's, so explain to us all how insta's make you invulnerable again????
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implanted
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Posted - 2005.06.11 20:39:00 -
[272]
please dont remove them.they are vital.
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Salusa VC
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Posted - 2005.06.11 22:25:00 -
[273]
I have not read all the previous posts, so do not know if this has been mentioned before.
I am primarily an empire "carebear", but would support the removal of insta's providing the following was applied.
1. Warp in point to SG set at a random 3-6k.
2. The ability to set AP, and have AB and MWD "automatically" kick in when approaching SG.
In a nutshell, that would keep me happy
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Cenyi
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Posted - 2005.06.12 00:22:00 -
[274]
Bm's causing lag well fix it then do some coding, whats next ohhhh there mining to much and its causing lag or the noobs are killing to many gate rats and the loot there keeping in there hanger is slowing things down, the server cant take the load yea right. Im sorry but leave the Bm's alone if the rats can just sit at gates and kill us off as we gate in or warp in or out from the gates then let us have our Bm's. Im tired of looking at the map and seeing 80% to 90% of us stuck in .5 and up. There is alot of room out there we cant get to because its held by a few who dont even use it all. Yea I know its a pvp thing they have taken the time to get there people out there and they guard it with there ships so it should be there's to use. Well I dont see it that way, there for the most part not mining or hunting npc rats in belts like some of us like to do they want pvp which is fine by me. Let them have it stain wants to kill curse or who ever it is this week there fighting. Lets face it they want to fight pvp style which is ok its not for all of us. Hey i have an idea do away with gates all together you jump random into a system and the same going out. Yea didnt think most would like that lol.I feel if you want Bm's changed then I want gate camping changed. Or here is an idea i have not read yet open Jove (or any of the other area's on the map we cant get to ) space up for those of us who want to hunt 0.0 type rats but dont want to pvp make it .5 space in safety. Do that so there is somewhere the rest of us can hunt or mine or pve and you can have my Bm's and ill stay out of your space.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.06.12 23:13:00 -
[275]
The devs originally increased distance to target in beta 6 (if I remember) in order to give PvP'ers a chance to make a kill. But in the majority of cases, using insta bookmarks isn't to avoid getting killed at all, it's to reduce the frustration of perhaps the most utterly mind numbingly soul destroying activity of any video game ever invented: gate to gate travel in Eve Online (it's even more boring than the 178th sheet in Space Invaders).
Reduce jump in to 2.5km, so you automatically insta-jump would be a much better idea. If players want to gank others on the move, make them setup to do so (bubbles). Make bubbles easier to deploy and use. I've never been killed incoming to a gate, always outgoing, even with instas, so the problem isn't insta jumping at all, it's silly PvP'ers sitting on the "wrong" side of the gate  .
Remember, two contradictory wishes: you want more people to go to 0.0 but you also want more people to be exposed to getting spanked at a gate. But think of it this way, there are at least two disincentives to going into 0.0: (1) the time it takes to get to and from and (2) the chance you might get killed. Remove one of these (1) - and more people might bother going, even if it's just sight seeing.
Anyway, if people no longer need instas (2.5km jump in), you will loose approximately 1,000,000 records from your bookmarks table. You won't even need to change any of your code (existing bookmarking system is fine). Just alter a few constants. But don't do the CCP usual and make 10 different skills related to it along with 400 modules and variations that just confuse the issue and need nerfing/balancing in six months time. That will just add uneccessary complication to what is in fact such a simple thing to sort I'm gobsmacked you even mention it in a blog ;)
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.06.12 23:21:00 -
[276]
 Originally by: Ralus
here's my idea
1) scrap instas (i.e. make it impossible to bookmark within 30km of a gate)
2)next create a low slot mod called warp targetter, this is a passive mod and makes the option "warp to" appear in your right click menu.
3) create a mid slot mod called a "gate signal emitter" this is an active mod that produces the same sensor signal as a gate, and has a % chance of tricking the gate targetter into warping to it rather than the gate (say mod only works within 50km radius of real gate and give skill to increase signel strength)
Above: I just did a random search of other posts and found this right away - needless complication. Soon, you'll need a special skill and modules to chat in corp
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 09:24:00 -
[277]
Originally by: babyblue
Edited by: babyblue on 12/06/2005 23:24:45
The devs originally increased distance to target in beta 6 (if I remember) in order to give PvP'ers a chance to make a kill. But in the majority of cases, using insta bookmarks isn't to avoid getting killed at all, it's to reduce the frustration of perhaps the most utterly mind numbingly soul destroying activity of any video game ever invented: gate to gate travel in Eve Online (it's even more boring than the 178th sheet in Space Invaders).
Reduce jump in to 2.5km, so you automatically insta-jump would be a much better idea. If players want to gank others on the move, make them setup to do so (bubbles). Make bubbles easier to deploy and use. I've never been killed incoming to a gate, always outgoing, even with instas, so the problem isn't insta jumping at all, it's silly PvP'ers sitting on the "wrong" side of the gate .
Remember, two contradictory wishes: you want more people to go to 0.0 but you also want more people to be exposed to getting spanked at a gate. But think of it this way, there are at least two disincentives to going into 0.0: (1) the time it takes to get to and from and (2) the chance you might get killed. Remove one of these (1) - and more people might bother going, even if it's just sight seeing. Remember, Risk vs Reward is a zero sum game, if it's perfectly balanced, your net gain is NOTHING.
Anyway, if people no longer need instas (2.5km jump in), you will loose approximately 1,000,000 records from your bookmarks table. You won't even need to change any of your code (existing bookmarking system is fine). Just alter a few constants. But don't do the CCP usual and make 10 different skills related to it along with 400 modules and variations that just confuse the issue and need nerfing/balancing in six months time. That will just add uneccessary complication to what is in fact such a simple thing to sort I'm gobsmacked you even mention it in a blog ;)
It is a good idea.. no gate camping on the jump in gate without a mwd. That gets rid of all those BMs. No changes on the out going side. Looks easy, no real code changes, CCP has to finally fix the MWD, the gate gankers have to get smarter but then that was never that hard a job anyway. No added modules or skills.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.13 09:30:00 -
[278]
Somehow I don't think solving insta jumps by making every jump an insta is really the way to go.
That is like solving aim bots in shooter games by coding one into the game.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2005.06.13 12:00:00 -
[279]
actually that not so bad an idea...
remove all "co-ordinate" bookmarks.
all jumps go in at 3km (near insta)
but make Mobile warp disruptors HUGE - small == 30km, med == 60km large == 100km. basically you are making travel much faster, but should someone put up a disrptor ou are screwed unless you looked first/prepared for it...
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Doc Punkiller
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Posted - 2005.06.13 12:59:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Vel Kyri
remove all "co-ordinate" bookmarks.
Errrrrrr! Wrong answer.
co-ordinate are also used for other things than jump gate: stations, pos, safe spot, containers in belts.
Moreover, gate campers are perfectly able to catch people that are using insta bookmarks. Insta bookmarks are NOT a "(close to)" invulnerability, but a "requirement" if you want to jump in 0.0 more than 2 minutes (at least from HED).
The true reason to remove BM is that CCP want to remove some load on the server with "(close to)" no coding.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:38:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Vel Kyri
actually that not so bad an idea...
remove all "co-ordinate" bookmarks.
all jumps go in at 3km (near insta)
but make Mobile warp disruptors HUGE - small == 30km, med == 60km large == 100km. basically you are making travel much faster, but should someone put up a disrptor ou are screwed unless you looked first/prepared for it...
lol nice try though 
if it was just that simple, but like the other guys have said, there is more to the bm then inst bm 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Kaeljen Dae
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Posted - 2005.06.14 13:38:00 -
[282]
-Relate all bookmarks to a physical entity. (Bookmarks in space should be small beacons which can be shot/deteriorate til malfunction after some time).
-Make everyone warp in very close to bookmarks (that includes the "bookmarks" you're already given like the one to a gate); 0-2km
-Put warp bubbles around ceraint object (I say gates in safe space and all stations).
-Make a gate take a certain amount of time to "jump you", depending on the size of your ship (large ships make the gate take longer to "calibrate" small ones do not) and give a module the role of breaking this jump process.
-> no need for instaboormarks, bookmarks won't be forever on the servers, travel is faster in insecure regions (therefore rewarded), pirates have a chance of getting you...
check this idea for a thorough explanation.
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babo
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Posted - 2005.06.15 15:35:00 -
[283]
please use decaying bookmarks.. I will create a nice business of selling dailies if this happens.. make us interceptor pilots rich :)
please move bm's to client side.. I am a python programmer and would love to hack them up so I can warp anywhere/anytime :)
*cough*
okay seriously...
people make bm's because they don't like wasting time.
Just make one guarded transport station in each region and charge people 100k/region distance to use them.. Then the players will not need insta's as much..
does your ship have a dronebay? If so, sign the petition.. |
Akkarrin
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Posted - 2005.06.15 15:41:00 -
[284]
Everything in space MOVES! Planets/stars/debris everything... so why not make gates/stations move?
Give them the ability to move 15k around the z/y axis so that bookmarks will land you anywhere from 0-15k away from them... only recognisable solution i see.
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Dur Spleenman
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Posted - 2005.06.15 19:36:00 -
[285]
For Chrissakes, 10,000 people pay $15 a month to play EVE and CCP can't come up with a few thousand to purchase an IJBM server?
Well I hope the T2 research agent I'm working with turns up a Covert-Ops BPO, cause I predict that demand for them as the new IJBM's go around method is going to go WAY up.
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Buri Niflheim
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Posted - 2005.06.15 20:35:00 -
[286]
more than 10,000 - ive seen more than that on the server at one time
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[i]When you have never known a thing except to dream, it becomes mor |
Bezs Maracas
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Posted - 2005.06.16 15:40:00 -
[287]
the simple answer is to make a warp to within 2km option. the travel times have always been a joke, especially for haulers and larger ships. insta's have simply helped to solve that problem, its why everyone uses them. remove the need for instas and wipe the server clean of them. if people use them for other purposes, ie. mining ops, snipe points, they can make these again pretty easily anyway and the number of these wouldn't affect the server i assume.
warp bubbles will still have their desired effect (when working), you can still be caught on the otherside of gates as well. i don't see what the big problem is.
i imagine a lot of new players get bored quickly because of the obscene travel times and leave the game, i know i nearly did. giving everyone access to instajumps will remove this problem entirely whilst gate control can be achieved with warp bubbles, i really don't see a problem in this.
Twisting my mellon man |
Lord Panther
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Posted - 2005.06.17 04:39:00 -
[288]
While there are some disadvantages to bookmarks there are some advantages as well.
Consider fleets invading regions that are somewhat distant from their home bases. Who wants to spend 2 hours jumping from system to system?
And of course the longer it takes you to get there, the more notice your target has and the more time they have to hide in safespots.
If the problem is really the invulnerability factor then it would be possible to solve this with two simple moves.
1) Delay jumps for say 15 seconds whether a bookmark was used or not
2) Introduce a module that allows it's users to prevent jumps.
Taking these two steps relegates bookmarks to being time savers and lessens any negative effects they may have on combat.
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Johnny Zed
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Posted - 2005.06.17 22:05:00 -
[289]
The Devs state that the problem they have with Instas is:
1) server lag
2) player (close to) invulnerability
3) player advantage over those that do not have/use instas
Limiting the number of BMs would solve all these issues. BMs would be a resource you need to manage just like all others.
Want to have a special trade route BMd. Cool. Want to have BMs for every gate in Eve. Nope.
Want safe travel in your area of 0 space. Cool. Want safe travel throughout Eve. Sorry, you dont have that many BMs to work with.
How many BMs should be the limit? I think the Devs should make that call based on server load. IMO, it should be a couple of hundred at most.
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.06.18 10:30:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Maggot on 18/06/2005 10:45:54
Here is a documented solution I think would make most bookmarks of no use.
Equiprobability Ellipsoids and Instajumps
In summary:
òAn addition of a random factor when warping to any given point
òA change in the warp speed to deal with the additional travel time caused by the warp inaccuracy
òAddition of warp accuracy modules to be equipped on non-combat ships
Don't think I have suggested anything new here, but I had fun going through the maths and have tried to cover all the problems the solution might generate.
I will post this in the ideas forum too as my lovely little paper might get lost in this thread.
Mags. |
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.06.18 16:59:00 -
[291]
Maggot, except combat ships would NEED to mount the warp accuracy modules, or face the prospect of not being able to fight outnumbered. EVERY ship in the fleet, too.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maggot
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Posted - 2005.06.18 19:52:00 -
[292]
I dont think everyone would mount them if it takes say 2 high slots to get decent accuracy, as it would cripple your firepower. You would have to rely on tactics, scouts etc, to keep your slow ships alive. |
Mangold
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Posted - 2005.06.19 13:54:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Maggot, except combat ships would NEED to mount the warp accuracy modules, or face the prospect of not being able to fight outnumbered. EVERY ship in the fleet, too.
Only if you want to insta jump through a blockade. Otherwise I don't see a problem.
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sirbest
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Posted - 2005.06.21 03:00:00 -
[294]
is anyone at all concerned that the only peeps complaining about bm's is pirets? bm's and insta jumps do not need to be fixed at all, pirets need to learn to adept and live with it. I have heard from 100s of players who plan to leave eve if ccp mess this up, i will never leave the game and injoy pvp very much but bm';s are not a problem that should ever be "fixed"
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Grav Tar
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Posted - 2005.06.21 09:22:00 -
[295]
Heres what i have to say:
Pro insta.
If instas are causing an issue with server load. Limit the number of instas that a person can have at one time. so u dont have ppl jumpin from region to region with 5 regions of bms that have to sort. they would be forced to load only those runs or routes that they need. they then could strategically place there runs to intersect in order to drop one and pick up the other.
Either that or create a system of navagation where i can enter x,y,z to hit a spot ,, then its up to me to contain a database of the spots i wish to make available. that would have no impact on the server load at all.
The thoughts of a man trying to keep instas alive. they are a great game mechanic.
Thank you for reading.
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Sanaen Eydanwadh
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Posted - 2005.06.21 09:34:00 -
[296]
Originally by: sirbest
is anyone at all concerned that the only peeps complaining about bm's is pirets?
erh ... wrong. Don't know where this idea come from, but it's simply nonsense. There has been a really weird misunderstanding on this topic since the beginning, but "nerf instas" != "wannagank everyone"
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2005.06.21 11:33:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Doc Punkiller
Originally by: Vel Kyri
remove all "co-ordinate" bookmarks.
Errrrrrr! Wrong answer.
co-ordinate are also used for other things than jump gate: stations, pos, safe spot, containers in belts.
Moreover, gate campers are perfectly able to catch people that are using insta bookmarks. Insta bookmarks are NOT a "(close to)" invulnerability, but a "requirement" if you want to jump in 0.0 more than 2 minutes (at least from HED).
The true reason to remove BM is that CCP want to remove some load on the server with "(close to)" no coding.
that was sorta the point - to remove all the BM.
stations are not co-ord BMs, they are orbit entities - you should be able to BM any orbit entity... for a POS just BM the moon its at.
safe spots should go as well IMHO.
the problem is that, as you so lovingly pointed out, instas are a "requirement"... they shouldn't be. If something is required for normal operation, make that something normal operation. ie, dont use a bm for instas, just let people warp in close...
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Shai 'Hulud
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Posted - 2005.06.21 21:56:00 -
[298]
I personally feel that the reason insta BM's are needed is because you can't go into/out of low sec. space without passing through choke pts. Remove these choke pts. (make multiple ways to travel the same route without it being an unreasonable inconvenience), and remove instant BM's.
Why are pirates fighting for better ability to "camp" a single gate? I played a pirate for a long time in this game, and quit because I got sick of sitting in one place waiting for someone to come by just so I could hope to catch them before they used an insta-BM etc.
Remove the ability to use insta BM's but make travel routes more variable. This would make pirates HUNT rather than CAMP. Camping would no longer work as well as it would quickly become apparant that a specific route (of many available) was camped and travelers would simply go around it.
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Bopque
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Posted - 2005.06.22 01:39:00 -
[299]
Here is my idea for replacing Bms and or making it feasible to travel in .0 systems with still haveing the same travel times and moderate safe travel.And maybe not have all pvp or battles happen at gate camps or stations.
1.I propose that all ships have an active scanning system ,eg 15 to 20 aus in distance,and have the ability to stop ones ship during a travel destination with a stop warp button or disengage warp button.So you have a choice on whether or not u want to run a gate camp or not.No need for bms
2.Give an interceptor or interceptors the ability to catch up to a fleeing ship and use a mod to disrupt the warp,the mod would work on the same principle as the electronic warfare mods, i.e effectively stopping its travel so his buddies can finish off the ship.And have a penalty duration in which it takes longer to reengage warp so as not to let the ship escape.
3.Give a skill that let ships come out of warp closer to a gate.Now no need for Bms
4.Scrap mobile warp disruptors and warp srcamblers and warp core stabilizers.Free up some slots for other usefull mods.
5.Create replacable ship Race specific reactors or capacitors Eg a basic reactor or capacitor would be +1 basic warp field strength basic capacity and recharge rate.A named or meta named reactor or capacitor and tech II would be of better warp field strength, capacity and recharge rate and a shorter duration to reengage warp.
These are just some ideas i was mulling overlet me know if anybody thinks they are good or not or maybe add to them. |
Camouflage
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Posted - 2005.06.22 12:18:00 -
[300]
hm, ok lets see what will happen if insta bm¦s got nerfed:
ALL new players only sit in there 1.0 starting sys
ALL semi experienced players sit in sys about 2 or 3 jumps from yulai
ALL veteran players sit in 0.0 space
ONLY some PvP loving players try to camp gates but they all die in boredom because the gates are not frewuented any more
come on CCP, lets reduce the EVE universe to 10 systems - no one need more then because NO ONE will travel around then.
my homesys is avada. it¦s 19 jumps from yulai. with a frig it will take about 15 minutes to travel this way if i use insta BM¦s. without insta BM¦s it will take about 25 or 30 minutes. with a hauler or a BS it will take about 60 minutes without insta BM¦s. and there is a high risk for my ships because the way is a corridor with known PK terrorised systems.
CCP, nerf the BM¦s and you never get a new player record, except of a new lowest player online record i think
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