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Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 09:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is what this post is based on: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1183783
Taxing NPC corporations was a rather lame attempt a trying to get players to join player run corporations. I'd like to know how many folks joined player corps because the unbearable 11% NPC corp tax rate. If war declarations and a low tax rate are the only thing player corps have going for t, then its no wonder player run corps are still alive and well. "Where you can flourish and develop as a player"? Sure if you join EVE Uni, but have you been in a player corp recently? In my time in EVE I have been a CEO and served under other CEOs. I have seen wardecs kill fail corps. CEOs turn and blow up the newb players, corp theft, tyrant CEOs taken down by real life issues leaving without leadership, and a lot of other stupid stuff player run corps are involved in. So in an effort to get more players into these situations you set up a 11% NPC corp tax to encourage players out of the NPC corps claiming that there are services being provided for free. Were ya'll drunk or something? Did the designer behind this idea get his job through nepotism? The recruitment forum and the recruitment forum is the best you can do to help corporations advertise?
Now I know I've been harsh, but I will offer and request that readers of this post offer suggestions to help. 1. Give CEOs and directors better/more tools to advertise and organize their corp. 2. Give corps an advantage. (unlimited contracts is not a real advantage over what a single player can do) 3. Clean up the corporation interface 4. Fix the wardec system. (Sure ships are getting destroyed, but folks don't mind at all paying you 11% of a low paying mission so they don't lose their shinny new ship.) 5. Balance PVE/Ships so that grouping works better than solo. (Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards. Not incursions and lvl 5s but something even a rookie player can do.)
My suggestions are probably not the best ideas, but they are something. Please folks, help CCP out. |

raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
32
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 09:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why?
I like NPC corps. |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
357
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 09:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Richard Bartle explained it once.
Short term bad, long term good is how DEVS should approach changes. Sadly the player base mostly doesn't care for long term, they just want short term gratification and as such will never embrace changes for the good. This scares the crap out of devs and thus they won't do it. Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 09:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
raskonalkov wrote:Why?
I like NPC corps. Of course you do.Most player corps suck. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 09:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Richard Bartle explained it once.
Short term bad, long term good is how DEVS should approach changes. Sadly the player base mostly doesn't care for long term, they just want short term gratification and as such will never embrace changes for the good. This scares the crap out of devs and thus they won't do it. Maybe but some of the players tried to tell them. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1459
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 10:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well well well.
The obvious main advantage of a real corp is having your own, dedicated team of pilots working together to achieve their goals.
Other, mechanical differences just support this. Now if you choose to limit your New Eden existence to only mission grinding, you probably won't appreciate any of these, but please don't for a moment think that is how most of us play.
Sure, as a CEO I'd love to get a full corp management interface revamp along with new POSes, they are known issues and high on wishlists.
From things you mentioned, taxes and wardecs are totally irrelevant to my corp, and your view on PVE betrays your very shallow knowledge of profitable carebearing.
I tried to remove this sig. |

Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
94
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't like player corps because I don't like being obligated to people less competent than me, or obligating people more competent than me. And if it's a corp with no obligations, then it's the same as an NPC corp, just with a smaller chat selection. |

Dave stark
888
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
11% tax, still doesn't apply to mining.
love my wardec immune npc corp. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |

Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote:Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards.
This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game". You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something. I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time.
"Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |

Dave stark
888
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards. This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game". You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something. I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time.
no, it's a "people who put more effort in, get more out".
perhaps you should try world of warcraft? that game seems to be more suited to your "i want the same rewards for playing for 1hr as the guy playing for 10hrs gets" attitude. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |

Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Funky Lazers wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards. This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game". You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something. I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time. no, it's a "people who put more effort in, get more out". perhaps you should try world of warcraft? that game seems to be more suited to your "i want the same rewards for playing for 1hr as the guy playing for 10hrs gets" attitude.
What is warcraft? "Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |

Dave stark
888
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Dave stark wrote:Funky Lazers wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards. This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game". You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something. I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time. no, it's a "people who put more effort in, get more out". perhaps you should try world of warcraft? that game seems to be more suited to your "i want the same rewards for playing for 1hr as the guy playing for 10hrs gets" attitude. What is warcraft?
a game that really might suit you. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
237
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
They could just remove npc corps. It should work just for rookie pilots first weeks. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Roime wrote:Well well well.
The obvious main advantage of a real corp is having your own, dedicated team of pilots working together to achieve their goals.
Other, mechanical differences just support this. Now if you choose to limit your New Eden existence to only mission grinding, you probably won't appreciate any of these, but please don't for a moment think that is how most of us play.
Sure, as a CEO I'd love to get a full corp management interface revamp along with new POSes, they are known issues and high on wishlists.
From things you mentioned, taxes and wardecs are totally irrelevant to my corp, and your view on PVE betrays your very shallow knowledge of profitable carebearing.
Don't get me wrong. I am not anti PVP or wardec. I'm just asking, what a Player corp can do that a player/fleet in a NPC corp can do? |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.
You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.
EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE. |

Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
764
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:They could just remove npc corps. It should work just for rookie pilots first weeks.
Try to think this through; pilot gets kicked from corp because he's offline for "too long". Where would his character be when he "finally" logs back in?
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |

Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
140
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Politics, pissy people, and generally I'd rather do what I want, also too many requirements to join other corps, api keys and such, where is the advantage being under others boots. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote:Roime wrote:Well well well.
The obvious main advantage of a real corp is having your own, dedicated team of pilots working together to achieve their goals.
Other, mechanical differences just support this. Now if you choose to limit your New Eden existence to only mission grinding, you probably won't appreciate any of these, but please don't for a moment think that is how most of us play.
Sure, as a CEO I'd love to get a full corp management interface revamp along with new POSes, they are known issues and high on wishlists.
From things you mentioned, taxes and wardecs are totally irrelevant to my corp, and your view on PVE betrays your very shallow knowledge of profitable carebearing.
Don't get me wrong. I am not anti PVP or wardec. I'm just asking, what a Player corp can do that a player/fleet in a NPC corp can do? That's exactly the problem.
What exactly can they do that makes it worthwhile to join player run corps and risk wardecks. Pretty much nothing. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards. This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game". You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something. I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time. I mean "a" mission(not all missions) that reward a huge payout to the fleet/corp that completes it. It would be difficult enough to require a small fleet. But I agree waiting for a corpmate to warp across to the planned activity can be a pain. Probably the CEO's fault for not organizing though. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.
You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.
EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE. What reward? |

Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
201
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
I hate Player Run corps
1. Mad CEO - who uses alt to commit corp theft
2. Stupid property policy and politcs. All my major assets are buried in null outposts, station and custom POSes.
3. Lack of roles, lack of freedom, stupid CEOs do not grant sufficient roles, 3 months later corp collapses. (You never get required roles for POS lab and manufacture) |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Opertone wrote:I hate Player Run corps
1. Mad CEO - who uses alt to commit corp theft
2. Stupid property policy and politcs. All my major assets are buried in null outposts, station and custom POSes.
3. Lack of roles, lack of freedom, stupid CEOs do not grant sufficient roles, 3 months later corp collapses. (You never get required roles for POS lab and manufacture) Preach It! Corp rules/roles suck. CCP doesn't even provide a way to pay players in a player corp. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.
You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.
EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE. What reward? The npc's corp. if you don't understand you never will. And why are you crying over a 3 year old dev blog. |

Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 11:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.
You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.
EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE. What reward? The npc's corp. if you don't understand you never will. And why are you crying over a 3 year old dev blog. First: You are not explaining how a NPC corp is imbalanced to a player run corp.
Second: The devblog is 3 years old and the problems still persist.
Where is the reward in a player run corp for the efforts players sink into them? I believe you are better than this... Do you need more coffee or something?
|

Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
95
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 12:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote: Don't get me wrong. I am not anti PVP or wardec. I'm just asking, what a Player corp can do that a player/fleet in a NPC corp can do?
Real answer: Hold sov and kick people out.
Forum answer: Moan about killboard ratios and turn your game into work. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Elrich Kouvo wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.
You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.
EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE. What reward? The npc's corp. if you don't understand you never will. And why are you crying over a 3 year old dev blog. First: You are not explaining how a NPC corp is imbalanced to a player run corp. Second: The devblog is 3 years old and the problems still persist. Where is the reward in a player run corp for the efforts players sink into them? I believe you are better than this... Do you need more coffee or something? You're already pointing it out.
Lack of incentive. If you can do everything but a few specialist type things -IE moon mining, most cap production, super and Titan production- you have no real reason to leave the npc's corps.
Forming one man corps to check out running a PoS isn't really joining a corp either, and a lot of people do that.
There's no benefit to joining a corp. CCP has to deal with the same stuff every other mmo does, encouraging people to join player run groups. It's much more important in EVE though. This is why mmo's do things like guild perks. More xp, better loot drops, etc when you join a guild.
It's why people, raiders, in other mmo's dislike when devs give everyone the same opportunity to achieve things as everyone else. Once upon a time raiding used to be what you did after you joined a guild, now it's what you do while playing solo; without ever having to join a guild.
We may as well start calling it the Generation Q. Lots of people want to play a multiplayer game that thrives on social interaction and working with others like its a single player game. They want to enter a Q and wait their turn to get the same rewards as those people that utilize the mechanics the developers spent time creating so that we could work with others for better rewards.
The NPC corps encourage people to not join a corp. Everyone's excuse for not joining a corp, mostly always boiling down to it being "the corps" fault, are just that, excuses. There are corporations available in EVE for every play style, even corps full of casual, laid back people who don't force anyone to do anything, just have fun.
You're not supposed to stay in the NPC corps forever, even though you can. There's no incentive to leave them, it needs to be fixed.
They never followed through on the tax adjustments when the initial increase was obviously not enough. It should go a little higher.
And then they need to remove all T2 production out of high sec stations and into player run structures.
You earn ISK as effectively as everyone else while in the NPC corps when you should be joining player run corps to do that.
EVE revolves around the player run corps, not individuals in the NPC corps. |

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
229
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
1) Newbie joins the game and asks in Rookie or Help channel for a "guild".
2) Newbie gets pointed to the recruitment channel.
3) Newbie goes to the recruitment channel and asks for a corp to join.
4) Newbie gets recruited into one of those "we-are newbie-friendly-and-do-everything-from-mining-to-wormholes-to-PvP"-corps with a dozen or so members (half of them are probably alts), none of them older than two, three months themselves that are hardly online and if they are, they mine or run missions... solo of course.
(Optional: 5) The corp gets wardecced and Newbie gets blown up, having never been told this interesting mechanic)
There is your problem!
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20. |

Dave stark
893
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
not sure how the whole rejoining an npc corp thing works, however the character i recently created that hasn't been in a player corp is in a different corp to those who have been in a player corp.
perhaps these npc corps could be wardecced, higher taxes etc that way players just starting out aren't abused by a wardec from the get-go or higher than average taxes, yet once they've taken that step out of the comfort zone they're unable to return to it and must suffer higher taxes and possibilities of war decs as they would in any other corp. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |

Fractal Muse
Dead's Prostitutes Test Friends Please Ignore
103
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 13:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Elrich Kouvo wrote: I mean "a" mission(not all missions) that reward a huge payout to the fleet/corp that completes it. It would be difficult enough to require a small fleet. But I agree waiting for a corpmate to warp across to the planned activity can be a pain. Probably the CEO's fault for not organizing though.
Go to wormhole space? The dynamics there encourage fleeting up to complete sites for great rewards.
I would agree that there should be one mission per "level" range that supports a group to complete - if only to get new players into fleeting up to do stuff instead of directing them towards single-player gameplay which is, for many people, boring.
As to the corp thing - you haven't suggested any actual concrete ideas or details.
HOW would you like advertising to be better? WHAT tools would you like to see?
Without those details your posts are just a continual whiny complaint which is unfortunate.
|

Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.24 14:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
i think npc corps are an annoying necessity, it's like pure PvE servers in WoW where you cant attack other players at all
there will always be casual players, who dont have time to commit to the game and still want to log in and play with spaceships, those are paying customers no MMO dev can afford to ignore
similarly, eve is always more fun with a friend or seven, however there are always dead times, when I feel like playing eve, and all my friends are busy with other stuff, that's what missions are for really
i'm not sure this can be balanced better in an easy way. ccp cant afford to **** over casual players, and the good way to fix this requires dev attention. and well.. everything needs dev attention, and there is not an unlimited supply of said dev attention
lastly i dont understand why the casuals and cowards make some people so angry, there are plenty of people who WANT to play, and there will always be a loner in a corner of the school yard playing at stacking rocks
it's a fact of life that seems to translate well over to eve. sure the loner is missing out, because playing eve solo and risk free is kind of missing the point, but... is that really OUR problem? |
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